Worcester-Sixways, LI and Wasps, WTF?

First topic message reminder :

And no, I don’t mean “welcome to Facebook” .
I logged onto the forum a few days ago to learn more about what has happened to these clubs expecting to a thread on this. But I had to write one instead. (Should I have used the title “who cares”?)

After listening to an OTB interview with an English reporter on the subject I gather that no staff working at Worcester have been paid for months, including those on low wages who will have missed mortgage payments and since their finances/ accounts still haven’t been properly kept they can’t yet be sold so there’s no hope of a white knight rescuing them. Their finances were completely mismanaged. Wasps appear to be in a better position and although they’ll be relegated will continue to exist. They are struggling to pay a tax bill and a debt incurred when they moved to London. (I thought this sounded weird, why move to a crazy expensive city packed with other sports teams?)

Below is an interesting article from the BBC on this topic.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/63053674
What shocked me about this article is the following: “ One club owner, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told BBC Sport: "I don't think there's one owner who'd tell you the model is working. It's completely flawed." Bristol Bears owner Stephen Lansdown recently said there is "just not enough money in the game,” If this is true, why is it true?

In the meantime , other clubs in the prem have voted to increase the salary cap at a time when many clubs are struggling with debts. This all sounds seriously worrying and suggests that clubs in the prem will soon have bigger financial problems in the future trying to pay even more in wages. Which suggests that more will start to go bust. And they voted to increase the salary cap? Am I missing something here or is this as dysfunctional as it sounds? And how can there not be enough money in the game in England? Rugby fans from other countries also regularly say how great the competition is, fans are absolutely showing up to see it, the competition is healthy, tv contracts are in place, cvc threw money at it recently. In theory things should be great. So….Welcome to Facebook?

(By the way this thread isn’t an invitation to slam the premiership or gloat. We are all rugby fans first and foremost and this could just as easily happen to your own club.)

No 7&1/2 wrote:Wow. The dream.

"shows no interest"

Intotouch wrote:So how do you all see that the premiership will recover its financial viability? The last that I heard there is an accumulative debt of €500 million, the salary cap has increased, in spite of many clubs objections to this, and the cvc money appears to be spent. What’s the plan? Are clubs making individual decisions only and hoping they’ll be fine or is there any over-riding plan for all the pro English clubs taking shape?

Accumulative debt is utterly meaningless. When the Daily Mail tried to report on this, they miscategorised an asset as debt, for instance.

Much of the debt is owed to the owners, the major shareholder, so will never be called in. It will just get converted to equity.

This whole 'financial collapse' is overplayed simply because of two rogue directors and a gamble with a conference centre / hotel that Covid killed off.

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Wow. The dream.

"shows no interest"

I'm sure the Bristol fans will show interest as proper rugby isn't available. Same as the teams which aren't Worcester and Wasps will from playing scratch sides.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Wow. The dream.

"shows no interest"

I'm sure the Bristol fans will show interest as proper rugby isn't available. Same as the teams which aren't Worcester and Wasps will from playing scratch sides.

Erm, the games are during the international period so well done on noting "proper rugby isn't available" at that time.

You know your stuff.

So exactly as I said.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So exactly as I said.

So international rugby isn't proper rugby. Interesting viewpoint, up there with "life's too short to learn".

You're too quick to judge with your aggressive twitter style. The lack of proper rugby is a comment in relation to the clubs. Unless you think Bristol had an ace game the cancelled to play Cardiff twice. Did the Barbarians not just jump into empty schedules or have the likes of Harlequins cancelled their great matches to play them and not to top up the finances? Enjoy the climb down Phil.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're too quick to judge with your aggressive twitter style. The lack of proper rugby is a comment in relation to the clubs. Unless you think Bristol had an ace game the cancelled to play Cardiff twice. Did the Barbarians not just jump into empty schedules or have the likes of Harlequins cancelled their great matches to play them and not to top up the finances? Enjoy the climb down Phil.

If the "proper rugby is a comment in relation to the clubs", as you claim, why did you write "I'm sure the Bristol fans will show interest as proper rugby isn't available".

YOU related it to the fans. You're now trying to relate it to the club.

The Bristol fans have 'proper rugby' in terms of the internationals.

We know why there are holes in the English calendar but isn't it nice that they turned to the Welsh to fill them? How about that for 'showing no interest'?

All of which makes the duplicity of your final sentence, when compared to your first, all the more sweeter.

Because Bristol don't have a proper game schedules as I've explained above. Hence they throw a couple of friendlies in there. I don't really consider these thrown together games proper rugby. It's as deep as that. Internationals are a separate thing to club rugby. I've said this before but some fans prefer club, plenty do on here and see internationals getting in the way. I think internationals are the pinnacle of the game but it's not part of a discussion really in terms of these games.you can climb down now phil. No one can possibly think any less of you for doing so.

But the prem still have no interest in the Welsh clubs joining them.
They see the Welsh clubs as something to use when it's convenient such as needing a friendly match or a vote to go there way.
Then it's back to ignoring you lot again.

Unrequited love is a terrible thing

No 7&1/2 wrote:Because Bristol don't have a proper game schedules as I've explained above. Hence they throw a couple of friendlies in there. I don't really consider these thrown together games proper rugby. It's as deep as that. Internationals are a separate thing to club rugby. I've said this before but some fans prefer club, plenty do on here and see internationals getting in the way. I think internationals are the pinnacle of the game but it's not part of a discussion really in terms of these games.you can climb down now phil. No one can possibly think any less of you for doing so.

Yes, I appreciate it is "as deep as that". It's as deep as it normally is.

carpet baboon wrote:But the prem still have no interest in the Welsh clubs joining them.
They see the Welsh clubs as something to use when it's convenient such as needing a friendly match or a vote to go there way.
Then it's back to ignoring you lot again.

Unrequited love is a terrible thing

There's a lot of truth in this.

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Because Bristol don't have a proper game schedules as I've explained above. Hence they throw a couple of friendlies in there. I don't really consider these thrown together games proper rugby. It's as deep as that. Internationals are a separate thing to club rugby. I've said this before but some fans prefer club, plenty do on here and see internationals getting in the way. I think internationals are the pinnacle of the game but it's not part of a discussion really in terms of these games.you can climb down now phil. No one can possibly think any less of you for doing so.

Yes, I appreciate it is "as deep as that". It's as deep as it normally is.

Lol.

carpet baboon wrote:But the prem still have no interest in the Welsh clubs joining them.
They see the Welsh clubs as something to use when it's convenient such as needing a friendly match or a vote to go there way.
Then it's back to ignoring you lot again.

Unrequited love is a terrible thing

The Welsh fascination with the prem is as bizarre as our fascination with the Premier league in soccer and both are as damaging to the domestic league and teams.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:But the prem still have no interest in the Welsh clubs joining them.
They see the Welsh clubs as something to use when it's convenient such as needing a friendly match or a vote to go there way.
Then it's back to ignoring you lot again.

Unrequited love is a terrible thing

The Welsh fascination with the prem is as bizarre as our fascination with the Premier league in soccer and both are as damaging to the domestic league and teams.

Please could you explain why it is bizarre to want to play a club just 40 or so miles away?

Cardiff to Bristol is 44 miles
Cardiff to Llanelli is 60 miles

So why is it bizarre?

Newport to Gloucester is 53 miles
Newport to Llanelli is 66 miles

Who in their right mind would prefer to play in Belfast over Bristol?

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:But the prem still have no interest in the Welsh clubs joining them.
They see the Welsh clubs as something to use when it's convenient such as needing a friendly match or a vote to go there way.
Then it's back to ignoring you lot again.

Unrequited love is a terrible thing

The Welsh fascination with the prem is as bizarre as our fascination with the Premier league in soccer and both are as damaging to the domestic league and teams.

Please could you explain why it is bizarre to want to play a club just 40 or so miles away?

Cardiff to Bristol is 44 miles
Cardiff to Llanelli is 60 miles

So why is it bizarre?

Newport to Gloucester is 53 miles
Newport to Llanelli is 66 miles

Who in their right mind would prefer to play in Belfast over Bristol?

Depends on how much you earn and what your preferred lifestyle and family commitments are. Average property price in Bristol is 59% higher than Belfast.

Ulster are a good team as well. McFarland has done a good job there, Lam has done some good things at Bristol but it's a very up and down side, when they're good they're very good but they can equally not turn up.

See I understand the interest.
Geographically it does make sense.
30 years ago it would have been the logical thing to do.

But it didn't happen.
And in the short to medium it won't happen for a multitude of reasons.

Long term? Who the flip knows

But what fascinates me is how a very few seem absolutely obsessed with blaming the Irish for the ills of Welsh regional rugby.
And the minority who seem to take more pleasure in an Irish teams defeat than a Welsh teams victory.

Or the really small group who upon seeing an Irish international player go off for a HIA after he made a balls up of a tackle, would take to Twitter to ask if anyone had a clip of how it happened to them and then exclaim "you love to see it"

What kind of small minded petty child would take pleasure in another humans traumatic brain injury. It makes me feel sad for them,

And yes there are "fans" like that in all nations. I just can't understand how anyone could claim to be a fan of a sport and enjoy seeing a player injured no matter who they play for

carpet baboon wrote:
But what fascinates me is how a very few seem absolutely obsessed with blaming the Irish for the ills of Welsh regional rugby.
And the minority who seem to take more pleasure in an Irish teams defeat than a Welsh teams victory.

Just to make a comment on the above: I don't recognise that in anybody I know or anybody whose output I've read online.

PhilBB wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:
But what fascinates me is how a very few seem absolutely obsessed with blaming the Irish for the ills of Welsh regional rugby.
And the minority who seem to take more pleasure in an Irish teams defeat than a Welsh teams victory.

Just to make a comment on the above: I don't recognise that in anybody I know or anybody whose output I've read online.

What about the HIA Phill? Do you recognise that at all?

Anywhere he posts just turns into anger and entitlement about the Welsh. Even a thread on the financial woes of the prem.

carpet baboon wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:
But what fascinates me is how a very few seem absolutely obsessed with blaming the Irish for the ills of Welsh regional rugby.
And the minority who seem to take more pleasure in an Irish teams defeat than a Welsh teams victory.

Just to make a comment on the above: I don't recognise that in anybody I know or anybody whose output I've read online.

What about the HIA Phill? Do you recognise that at all?

No, but I assumed you could link to the twitter accounts of those who made those claims.

The other stuff you wrote is complete fabrication to ruin the debate.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Anywhere he posts just turns into anger and entitlement about the Welsh. Even a thread on the financial woes of the prem.

That would be because I call out and highlight the nonsense written by others. It seems some get upset when they get called out.

I guess it depends on whether you want honesty or just a handful of people shouting lies into a void.

Your brand of honesty is one note English club love.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Your brand of honesty is one note English club love.

Well if that's your full and honest take, so be it.

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Anywhere he posts just turns into anger and entitlement about the Welsh. Even a thread on the financial woes of the prem.

That would be because I call out and highlight the nonsense written by others. It seems some get upset when they get called out.

I guess it depends on whether you want honesty or just a handful of people shouting lies into a void.

It must be boring being right all the time.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Anywhere he posts just turns into anger and entitlement about the Welsh. Even a thread on the financial woes of the prem.

That would be because I call out and highlight the nonsense written by others. It seems some get upset when they get called out.

I guess it depends on whether you want honesty or just a handful of people shouting lies into a void.

It must be boring being right all the time.

It's boring addressing tropes.

Happy to be called out and educated where I'm proven to be wrong, however.

"entitlement about the Welsh" - do you see it that way? Simply for wanting Welsh clubs playing games they don't have to fly to?

Anyway, back to the topic in hand. Peter Scrivener has some interesting news:

https://twitter.com/peter_scrivener/status/1585532354155667457?s=20&t=nzLSYPM2iL_rTZYlroRjHA

"None of this should have happened as a £60m bid was turned down before administration! 167 jobs and a team that took 155yrs to build unnecessarily thrown away.

There are good people behind the scenes trying to save the club"

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Anywhere he posts just turns into anger and entitlement about the Welsh. Even a thread on the financial woes of the prem.

That would be because I call out and highlight the nonsense written by others. It seems some get upset when they get called out.

I guess it depends on whether you want honesty or just a handful of people shouting lies into a void.

It must be boring being right all the time.

It's boring addressing tropes.

Happy to be called out and educated where I'm proven to be wrong, however.

"entitlement about the Welsh" - do you see it that way? Simply for wanting Welsh clubs playing games they don't have to fly to?

I want the HC back to the way it was. Its not going to happen though, is it? I have a little moan, move on and still attend and watch European games because I'm greatful to have a club to support. You never stop harping on about something which may never happen, it's not helping your clubs or the league they play in get stronger.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
I want the HC back to the way it was. Its not going to happen though, is it? I have a little moan, move on and still attend and watch European games because I'm greatful to have a club to support. You never stop harping on about something which may never happen, it's not helping your clubs or the league they play in get stronger.

Our clubs all want out. The league can't get stronger. There comes a time when you just have to face the reality and that is: get out or get weaker.

When you have three clubs up for sale in one league and you look at another league where somebody is willing to pay £60m for the business that includes a rugby club AND that rugby club is three hours away by car, common sense kicks in.

And, no, sadly the HC won't come back as it was

The old European Cup and the Welsh clubs really have sod all to do with these 2 English clubs going under with more under threat.

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
I want the HC back to the way it was. Its not going to happen though, is it? I have a little moan, move on and still attend and watch European games because I'm greatful to have a club to support. You never stop harping on about something which may never happen, it's not helping your clubs or the league they play in get stronger.

Our clubs all want out. The league can't get stronger. There comes a time when you just have to face the reality and that is: get out or get weaker.

When you have three clubs up for sale in one league and you look at another league where somebody is willing to pay £60m for the business that includes a rugby club AND that rugby club is three hours away by car, common sense kicks in.

And, no, sadly the HC won't come back as it was

Well face the reality that your clubs may never join the prem...  It doesn't matter who pays what for Wasps, their position in Coventry is untenable. Their attendances collapsed and they are despised by the locals. Common sense shows how the prem is in crisis and club rugby in general is constantly tethering on the brink.

No 7&1/2 wrote:The old European Cup and the Welsh clubs really have sod all to do with these 2 English clubs going under with more under threat.

True, but a £60m bid for Wasps plus a £20m bid for Worcester do indicate that those predicting financial armageddon within the English game may be overhyping somewhat.

The 'more under threat' line doesn't really have, at this stage, much proof behind it. Sure, London Irish are up for sale for £1 but that's a club that is, at best, peripatetic and manufactured.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Well face the reality that your clubs may never join the prem...  It doesn't matter who pays what for Wasps, their position in Coventry is untenable. Their attendances collapsed and they are despised by the locals. Common sense shows how the prem is in crisis and club rugby in general is constantly tethering on the brink.

That reality has been faced since 1998.

Of course, the bid for Wasps includes the stadium, so clearly their position in Coventry isn't (or wasn't at the time of the bid) untenable.

Common sense includes listening to the Chief Exec of Gloucester who runs a tight ship. It includes more than "oh, no, two clubs have gone under" because it involves finding out WHY they have gone under (clue: neither was to do with rugby).

But your general point is right: club rugby is not meeting its potential and the reasons as to why are obvious across the board.

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Well face the reality that your clubs may never join the prem...  It doesn't matter who pays what for Wasps, their position in Coventry is untenable. Their attendances collapsed and they are despised by the locals. Common sense shows how the prem is in crisis and club rugby in general is constantly tethering on the brink.

That reality has been faced since 1998.

Of course, the bid for Wasps includes the stadium, so clearly their position in Coventry isn't (or wasn't at the time of the bid) untenable.

Common sense includes listening to the Chief Exec of Gloucester who runs a tight ship. It includes more than "oh, no, two clubs have gone under" because it involves finding out WHY they have gone under (clue: neither was to do with rugby).

But your general point is right: club rugby is not meeting its potential and the reasons as to why are obvious across the board.

So what if Glaws run a tight ship? They could be playing in a 10 team league with no promotion or relegation in a country the size of England... That's not good enough. You're unwillingness to recognise their struggles is strange to me.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
So what if Glaws run a tight ship? They could be playing in a 10 team league with no promotion or relegation in a country the size of England... That's not good enough. You're unwillingness to recognise their struggles is strange to me.

I have no unwillingness to recognise a struggle but a struggle isn't a crisis.

CVC want the smaller league in order to avoid the clashes with the international game but we've been there before with how the international game places the domestic game in the shadow, is a direct competitor and how it will, eventually, consume its supply chain to the point where its own product will be harmed. So, to underline the point I've made many times before, I understand why the domestic game struggles and won't reach its potential - hence I completely refute your final sentence above as it has no basis in fact or evidence.

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
So what if Glaws run a tight ship? They could be playing in a 10 team league with no promotion or relegation in a country the size of England... That's not good enough. You're unwillingness to recognise their struggles is strange to me.

I have no unwillingness to recognise a struggle but a struggle isn't a crisis.

CVC want the smaller league in order to avoid the clashes with the international game but we've been there before with how the international game places the domestic game in the shadow, is a direct competitor and how it will, eventually, consume its supply chain to the point where its own product will be harmed. So, to underline the point I've made many times before, I understand why the domestic game struggles and won't reach its potential - hence I completely refute your final sentence above as it has no basis in fact or evidence.

Well it does because you claimed the league was "thriving" just a couple of months before two teams went bust and numerous others on the brink.

The international game is the only side that actually makes money. I mean is club rugby actually sustainable? 40-50 man squads on sizable salaries in teams that can barely attract 10k spectators through the gates. There's a reason why clubs need to be either union owned or have a sugar daddy. Are 100% fan owned clubs even possible in union playing in a top tier league, like it is in soccer?

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:The old European Cup and the Welsh clubs really have sod all to do with these 2 English clubs going under with more under threat.

True, but a £60m bid for Wasps plus a £20m bid for Worcester do indicate that those predicting financial armageddon within the English game may be overhyping somewhat.

The 'more under threat' line doesn't really have, at this stage, much proof behind it. Sure, London Irish are up for sale for £1 but that's a club that is, at best, peripatetic and manufactured.

Yay. There was another deal that didn't come about.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
So what if Glaws run a tight ship? They could be playing in a 10 team league with no promotion or relegation in a country the size of England... That's not good enough. You're unwillingness to recognise their struggles is strange to me.

I have no unwillingness to recognise a struggle but a struggle isn't a crisis.

CVC want the smaller league in order to avoid the clashes with the international game but we've been there before with how the international game places the domestic game in the shadow, is a direct competitor and how it will, eventually, consume its supply chain to the point where its own product will be harmed. So, to underline the point I've made many times before, I understand why the domestic game struggles and won't reach its potential - hence I completely refute your final sentence above as it has no basis in fact or evidence.

Well it does because you claimed the league was "thriving" just a couple of months before two teams went bust and numerous others on the brink.

The international game is the only side that actually makes money. I mean is club rugby actually sustainable? 40-50 man squads on sizable salaries in teams that can barely attract 10k spectators through the gates. There's a reason why clubs need to be either union owned or have a sugar daddy. Are 100% fan owned clubs even possible in union playing in a top tier league, like it is in soccer?

Football ain't exactly a great show of financial responsibility.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Well it does because you claimed the league was "thriving" just a couple of months before two teams went bust and numerous others on the brink.

The international game is the only side that actually makes money. I mean is club rugby actually sustainably? 50 man squads on sizable salaries in teams that can barely attract 10k spectators through the gates. There's a reason why clubs need to be either union owned or have a sugar daddy. Are 100% fan owned clubs even possible in union playing in a top tier league, like it is in soccer?

I've previously asked you to justify your claim that I noted it was 'thriving'. If I've missed your justification (the link, with context), apologies. If not, please provide it.

The International game, as noted before, is designed to ensure it's the only side that actually makes money.

Sugar daddies are fans, of course.

Clubs carry 50 men squads because they second their players to a third party for large parts of the season - the international game. With fewer internationals there could be a finance shift so that the international game is no longer a competitor, so the finance model changes.

That's why the issue of "club rugby can't wash its own face" is multi faceted

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:The old European Cup and the Welsh clubs really have sod all to do with these 2 English clubs going under with more under threat.

True, but a £60m bid for Wasps plus a £20m bid for Worcester do indicate that those predicting financial armageddon within the English game may be overhyping somewhat.

The 'more under threat' line doesn't really have, at this stage, much proof behind it. Sure, London Irish are up for sale for £1 but that's a club that is, at best, peripatetic and manufactured.

Yay. There was another deal that didn't come about.

I hope you never try to buy a house, agree a sale but then fail to exchange contracts.

Yeah absolutely. It's just really really unfortunate that all these deals through the years just disappear.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah absolutely. It's just really really unfortunate that all these deals through the years just disappear.

Yes, it is, but the key fact is that you can't make an offer on an house without showing interest in it.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
So what if Glaws run a tight ship? They could be playing in a 10 team league with no promotion or relegation in a country the size of England... That's not good enough. You're unwillingness to recognise their struggles is strange to me.

I have no unwillingness to recognise a struggle but a struggle isn't a crisis.

CVC want the smaller league in order to avoid the clashes with the international game but we've been there before with how the international game places the domestic game in the shadow, is a direct competitor and how it will, eventually, consume its supply chain to the point where its own product will be harmed. So, to underline the point I've made many times before, I understand why the domestic game struggles and won't reach its potential - hence I completely refute your final sentence above as it has no basis in fact or evidence.

Well it does because you claimed the league was "thriving" just a couple of months before two teams went bust and numerous others on the brink.

The international game is the only side that actually makes money. I mean is club rugby actually sustainable? 40-50 man squads on sizable salaries in teams that can barely attract 10k spectators through the gates. There's a reason why clubs need to be either union owned or have a sugar daddy. Are 100% fan owned clubs even possible in union playing in a top tier league, like it is in soccer?

Football ain't exactly a great show of financial responsibility.

Football exists outside the premiership. Look at a club like SC Frieburg, 100% fan owned and currently thrid in the Bundesliga. I know soccer is a completely different animal but still interesting.

PhilBB wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Well it does because you claimed the league was "thriving" just a couple of months before two teams went bust and numerous others on the brink.

The international game is the only side that actually makes money. I mean is club rugby actually sustainably? 50 man squads on sizable salaries in teams that can barely attract 10k spectators through the gates. There's a reason why clubs need to be either union owned or have a sugar daddy. Are 100% fan owned clubs even possible in union playing in a top tier league, like it is in soccer?

I've previously asked you to justify your claim that I noted it was 'thriving'. If I've missed your justification (the link, with context), apologies. If not, please provide it.

The International game, as noted before, is designed to ensure it's the only side that actually makes money.

Sugar daddies are fans, of course.

Clubs carry 50 men squads because they second their players to a third party for large parts of the season - the international game. With fewer internationals there could be a finance shift so that the international game is no longer a competitor, so the finance model changes.

That's why the issue of "club rugby can't wash its own face" is multi faceted

Your quotes phil.

'There's three clubs on the verge of going bust in Wales and we've only got four to start with.

The Prem is thriving, but pro rugby won't work in Worcester and it won't work when a business loses £8m in a year because it can't open its hotel.'

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah absolutely. It's just really really unfortunate that all these deals through the years just disappear.

Yes, it is, but the key fact is that you can't make an offer on an house without showing interest in it.

*Poof* and they disappear.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Your quotes phil.

'There's three clubs on the verge of going bust in Wales and we've only got four to start with.

The Prem is thriving, but pro rugby won't work in Worcester and it won't work when a business loses £8m in a year because it can't open its hotel.'

Those are words. Where's the link to provide the context?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah absolutely. It's just really really unfortunate that all these deals through the years just disappear.

Yes, it is, but the key fact is that you can't make an offer on an house without showing interest in it.

*Poof* and they disappear.

I've no idea what that means, sorry

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah absolutely. It's just really really unfortunate that all these deals through the years just disappear.

Yes, it is, but the key fact is that you can't make an offer on an house without showing interest in it.

*Poof* and they disappear.

I've no idea what that means, sorry

All these deals just vanish into thin air.

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Your quotes phil.

'There's three clubs on the verge of going bust in Wales and we've only got four to start with.

The Prem is thriving, but pro rugby won't work in Worcester and it won't work when a business loses £8m in a year because it can't open its hotel.'

Those are words. Where's the link to provide the context?

You think the context will change. Did you really mean to agree with Leinster that the prem isn't thriving?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah absolutely. It's just really really unfortunate that all these deals through the years just disappear.

Yes, it is, but the key fact is that you can't make an offer on an house without showing interest in it.

*Poof* and they disappear.

I've no idea what that means, sorry

All these deals just vanish into thin air.

Yes, not all deals are completed but no deal has a negotiation without an interest. And, let's remember, this nonsense continues because you and another refuse to acknowledge that interest has been shown.