Where the reality does not support the myth

First topic message reminder :

On the back of the ongoing debate about the stoppage in the first Lewis McCall fight and whether the stoppage was appropriate or premature and some recent discussion as to the length of the delay in the first Cooper Ali fight thought I would ask what fights or results people thought had developed a mythology all of their own which in your opinion did not support the actual facts of the events. As I did on the original thread will state I don’t think there was any issue with the stoppage in Lewis McCall, he was on unsteady legs so can have no complaints. However as this has been more than adequately covered in the original thread will not revisit it in depth here.

However another fight I think has developed a life all of its own with the passage of time on here is the “robbery” in the Calzaghe Reid fight. I remember watching this at the time and reading the reports in the Boxing press and my recollection is the fight was close but Calzaghe had the better of it and got a close but deserved decision, having rewatched the fight on a couple of occasions I have seen little to change my mind. However when one reads the all too frequent debates about Joe’s career or legacy, this fight is often portrayed as a flat out robbery or a fight that raised a massive controversy at the time, a view I am not sure either the fight or the reaction in the press in anyway justified. Will say the fight was probably close enough to justify a rematch but was by no means the highway robbery many at one extreme of the Calzaghe debate would like to portray it as.

Are there other fights or events that have developed a life of their own with the passage of time? Would also appreciate it if we could exercise a rare measure of self control and not turn this into a Joe is an all time great/bum debate, although I’m not holding my breath on that one.

Liston took a dive in the 2nd Ali fight
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Reality is he hardly trained, couldn't skip rope, wasn't the slightest bit in shape and didn't fancy the job....

Honey battered a perfect Don Curry
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Ask Starling, Breland, KO, Ring magazine, Boxing illustrated and any American..They'll blow out the British 606 myth!!

Right about Mccall-lewis Rowley...out on his feet.

Never really embraced misery until Pearl Jam and Smashing Pumpkins came along. Wasn't that miserable though. You didn't have to cut your hair, have a shower or change your clothes and some piece would still want a go.....

You've still got sigourney in Alien 3...though.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You've still got sigourney in Alien 3...though.

And you've still got fond memories of the time you didn't need a bra

I like big boobs.......can lick mine when my Mrs won't lend me hers..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I like big boobs.......can lick mine when my Mrs won't lend me hers..

Does vomit cause much damage to computer keyboards, anyone?

Chris you protest too much.......

I'm also a huge Smiths fan. The Queen isDead ranks in my top 5 albums of all time. Nice to know there's some guys on here with a bit if musical taste.

Always more of a Meat is Murder man myself Sugar Boy, not to keen on the title track though.

Smiths fan??? No offence but I thought The Smiths catered for the gay community....

He's more feminine than Graham Norton...

Sweetie tell your Wife now and save her heartache down the line.

We've come a long way from Calzaghe v Reid, haven't we ? Thought it was we ' cotton tops ' who were given to nostalgia.

Any more boxing ones, or shall I start weighing in with the ' folk revival ' of the early sixties ?

" The answer, my friend is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin' in the wind "

Aye, them were days.........................................

Given Truss is on one of his old versus new rants will not express the opinion that old music is better than modern music, despite the fact it is.

rowley wrote:Given Truss is on one of his old versus new rants will not express the opinion that old music is better than modern music, despite the fact it is.

Primary evidence, jeff.

Truss listens to fact, not fiction, doncha know ?

The Smiths....

Better not express an opinion If that's the stuff you like....

I think I've heard enough already

rowley wrote: some recent discussion as to the length of the delay in the first Cooper Ali fight thought I would ask what fights or results people thought had developed a mythology all of their own which in your opinion did not support the actual facts of the events.

~ Why dearest of sirs, one only need to look to this thread to see how quickly any boxing discussion digresses to the most banal of random mutterings. The myth is that the average boxing fan actually understands boxing well enough to engage in intelligent conversation.

He cannot any more than the unwashed public can review a certified master copy of the Ali/Cooper first fight.

Sports memories are built up the specious memories of fans who are hardly reliable specimens of objectivity. In the Ali/Cooper example, the fans can be excused since the key participants such as Mr. Cooper, Mr. Dundee, and various boxing writers all agree on the general premise even while dickering over the specifics.

When boxing enacts credible people to oversee it's operations, perhaps the facts won't be in such disrepute.

The one that irritates me a little bit (may already be here but can't be bothered to trawl through the whole thread) is that Hamed was 'destroyed' by Barrara - 'totally outclassed' etc etc. Granted he won and won well but it has become a habit to repeat and exaggerrate the manner of the win with each telling. Particularly by people who disliked Hamed and by people that probably never even saw the fight.

Perfessor Albertus Lion V wrote:dickering

Ooh, I say!

Ahhhhh The Smiths, what an awesome band although Morrissey is a bit of a goon, always takes the meat is murder thing too far

Meat is murder though...

Especially when you're trying to chew my mrs sunday roast

Perfessor Albertus Lion V wrote:

rowley wrote: some recent discussion as to the length of the delay in the first Cooper Ali fight thought I would ask what fights or results people thought had developed a mythology all of their own which in your opinion did not support the actual facts of the events.

~ Why dearest of sirs, one only need to look to this thread to see how quickly any boxing discussion digresses to the most banal of random mutterings. The myth is that the average boxing fan actually understands boxing well enough to engage in intelligent conversation.

He cannot any more than the unwashed public can review a certified master copy of the Ali/Cooper first fight.

Sports memories are built up the specious memories of fans who are hardly reliable specimens of objectivity. In the Ali/Cooper example, the fans can be excused since the key participants such as Mr. Cooper, Mr. Dundee, and various boxing writers all agree on the general premise even while dickering over the specifics.

When boxing enacts credible people to oversee it's operations, perhaps the facts won't be in such disrepute.

Am I the only one that doesn't even bother reading your posts after I see the name?

Don't worry mate...It's someone like Steffan messing about..

But no you're not the only one..

I've been hearing from surely people with tin foil on there head that Harrison threw the Haye fight...
They think this is why Harrison didn't throw his big left hand and didn't hold and was knocked out and then Haye coming out with the whole "I made a lot of money on betting on this fight"
Also, this is a fact, but I don't think this proves that Harrison had thrown the fight, just before Haye started landing the bombs on Harrison when he was leaned against the ropes he shouted "NOW!" just before he threw the big straigt right that pretty much ended Harrison.
But I can't believe this is true at all, what you reckon?

Can't beat "Hatful of Hollow" ; with those other perennial Peel bands The Fall and Half Man Half Biscuit, all you need to know about 80s music like.

Now as I have arrived late on this debate, thanks to SBS for correcting the " no mas" myth; it never quite rang true to me. The wording you mention sounds more likely.
The Bruno punch I always felt was a bit exaggerated,although he did land cleanly you have to asy Tyson shook it off pretty much immediately.

I had the Calzaghe Reid fight very close, and thought that Joe was actually pretty lucky to get the decision,however it is worth noting that at no time did RR question the outcome, he gave full credit to Joe afterwards.

Have seen Farr/Louis a few times and sadly score it widely to Joe Louis. However he is still a bit of a Hero for pushing the champ so far and being one of his toughest defences.

Carpenter's outburst at the end of Bugner fight pretty unprofessional ,as was the outburst that "Ali was robbed " at the end of the first Frazier fight.
There also seems to be some campaign to discredit Haye's victory over Valuev, which is bizarre!

andygf wrote:............I had the Calzaghe Reid fight very close, and thought that Joe was actually pretty lucky to get the decision,however it is worth noting that at no time did RR question the outcome, he gave full credit to Joe afterwards...............
..............There also seems to be some campaign to discredit Haye's victory over Valuev, which is bizarre!

~ Why Mr. Andy, dear me sir, you do seem to be quite taken with gun shy fair lady types.

Mr. Reid and Mr. Haye are classic case of two fine Tarzan like specimens who couldn't outpoint Jane on the nights in question. Not much a game fighter can do when his opponent clearly drops a stinker in his shorts and only looks to fan the breezes to survive.

To be fair though, Joe Calzaghe was a bit poopie that night.I dare say he injured his hand..again...it was a weak performance by him.Doesn't mean I like Reid.However,Perfessor, you have to admit he did kick the fertiliser out of Ottke -when he was allowed to.
As stated last week in my book review of Jimmy Wilde ,I'm a confirmed Cymrophile, so gave Calzaghe my support that night, however credit where it's due,and all that.
I have not watched the Valuev fight since it happened, I mean life's too short.
I have called Haye to beat Wlad; reading "The Ring" today made me want to backtrack, but I'll stick by it...see it as a genuine 50/50 thing though.