England post 2022 6Ns, Aus tour and beyond

First topic message reminder :

Hate to say it and I don't wish him injured but I'm glad Ewels not available!
If you're disappointed with Malins and Daly being selected, imagine how most of us feel about Youngs being there.
In fairness, Malins and Daly been superb this season but please give Radwan and Arundell a run.

mountain man wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

mountain man wrote:So Smith not even on bench? Really?

Which one.

It was not supposed to be a best 23, the idea is to keep the team from as few clubs a possible, not pick a team from all 11+2 prem clubs. Farrell can and does get the Sarries team moving and attacking, understanding and cohesion being the things I was looking for. Only pick from another club when there is no suitable option in Sarries or Tigers and then try to fill in the gaps from one other club i.e props, and 8.

Both Malins and Lozowski cover 10 so a benched 10 would be a waste of space.

Why? Surely pick best players from all teams then go from there. I can understand if you think for example Smith isn't your choice but seems a bit odd to restrict to only 2/3 teams.
That's whole point of an International coaching team, to bring together players from different club sides and get them to gel.
So Arundell who is with LI doesn't get in team because he's not a Saracens or Leicester player?

The point I was trying to make is that the currently successful sides i.e. Ireland and NZ do out of necessity draw their players from a small number of clubs and as a result have a player understanding and cohesion that certainly England lack. France do not and are still pretty successful but they are the exception based on flair. The amount of time the England squad has together cannot get close to the cohesion that Ireland and NZ have as that is built up of years of playing together in the same clubs.

It is one of the penalties you get for having a league based in a single country. With the exception of France we are the only country at this level that has a solely English club league, all the other countries have a small number of clubs in an international league.

I can only reflect on my own experience from school onwards, I played for the dominant school in our county, although we were a comprehensive, the grammar schools and private schools who thought they could teach us a lesson soon found out that we were an exception from the norm, we were big, hard and ugly and played that way. This then manifested itself in the town colts side, probably 12 of us came from the same school, although most left school at 15/16 (dates me) we just carried on as if we were the school side. We struggled to get competitive games and had to travel long distances to play other colts sides that could match us, difficult for under 19s as not many had cars, we ended up playing other local towns 2nd teams or 1st but we still usually won. The county colts side also benefitted despite the quite open snobbery of the haves, us being the have nots, they did not want a colts side initially having an U21s but they were under pressure from I assume the RFU, to try and show it was not necessary they arranged a game for their U21s against a prospective U19s mainly made up of my colts side. It was a slaughter, 15 people that come together four or five times a year spread over a number of mainly south coast clubs made up of ex public school boys against a side younger but bigger who had been playing together for 5 years. It was not the skill sets that made a difference, it was the cohesion, knowing what the other players were going to do, having moves practised for years. A year later they introduced an U19 side, but we had aged and were too old and the next generation were not quite so aggressive, so they went back to the same practise of picking from the sides that had influence and money rather than looking at a core and building around it and failed.

Long rant I know, but a side that has cohesion and ability will often beat a side of greatly skilled players that do not have the sense of cohesion that club sides have. Look at the Barbarians, great players, but how often do they win.

I agree there’s a need for coherent selection - and one of the things I was most critical about in Eddie’s selection was his tendency not to use existing partnerships.
Given how competitive the Premiership is, though, you need to pick from more than two teams. For all that Leicester and Sarries were last year’s finalists, not all their players are the best in their position, especially given player movements since last season and this season’s form.

Poorfour wrote:I agree there’s a need for coherent selection - and one of the things I was most critical about in Eddie’s selection was his tendency not to use existing partnerships.
Given how competitive the Premiership is, though, you need to pick from more than two teams. For all that Leicester and Sarries were last year’s finalists, not all their players are the best in their position, especially given player movements since last season and this season’s form.

I dunno you could have a potential backline of;
JVP, Ford, May, Kelly, Manu, Watson, Steward and have a selection that knows each other well. Now, not sure Farrell will be dropped and that Manu is a reliable option but otherwise probably better than what finished the AIs. Plenty of experience around the two young guys, then you could mix things up on the bench with Youngs, Farrell/Smith, Arundell.

So let the arguments start on which sides have the best forwards vs the best backs?

Having a crack at 3 teams or less...

Marler George Collier
Itoje Chessum
Kenningham Earl
Dombrandt

van Poorvtliet Smith
Murley Farrell Marchant Lynagh
Steward

Vunipola Walker Heyes Tizard Evans Care Porter Watson

No 7&1/2 wrote:Having a crack at 3 teams or less...

Marler George Collier
Itoje Chessum
Kenningham Earl
Dombrandt

van Poorvtliet Smith
Murley Farrell Marchant Lynagh
Steward

Vunipola Walker Heyes Tizard Evans Care Porter Watson

Well that makes grim reading.

In terms of game plan my predictions would be:

Kick chase will be huge. Many won't like it but Borthwick focuses on it massively. Both kickers and chasers. Tigers forwards such as Cole, Liebenberg, Martin, Reffell, etc are relentless on kick chase under Borthwick. Someone such as May despite the dip in form could benefit there. Lawes and Curry fit that mould too. Earl for instance is absolutely outstanding in kick chase due to his pace. Ludlam is terrific there too.

They won't always be kicking to compete in the air either. Tigers, especially with Ford at 10, would very regularly kick long looking to find the right player or grass. By finding the right player I mean one that is least likely to kick it back. In the Prem final Wigglesworth targeting Billy V is a perfect example of this. Tigers love to kick to players who will run it at them then back their kick chase to hunt that runner down. Then their very aggressive blitz will target an attack on the back foot from the subsequent ruck.

Leading on from that, defence may move back to a very aggressive blitz more akin to the system seen under Gustard. More recently the England defence has remained very aggressive around the fringes but drifted more wider out. I expect we will see the backline blitz more if Borthwick comes in. That makes your outside centre absolutely vital to the defence. JJ was outstanding in Gustard's system using his pace to blitz but also cover the outside arc stopping sides getting outside the blitz. Slade might not be flavour of the month but probably is our best outside centre defensively.

If Borthwick's early days at Tigers are anything to go by we might see a fairly rigid structure ball in hand early on. If Tigers got the ball in the middle of the field they'd go through maybe two or three phases to try to get over the gain line. If they did get over the gain line and it was worth building on they'd build more phases. If not boot would go to ball and the kick chase pressures hard. Many fans won't like it but I'd guess it's likely early on.

The lineout will likely take risks for ball that is more difficult to defend. Perhaps at odds with what many would expect but Borthwick's lineout strategy with Japan, England and now Tigers has tended to include throwing to areas of the lineout where you risk losing the ball (either the tail where the throw is higher risk or the middle with numbers in where you're more frequently competed) to get better attacking ball. Front ball is easier retention but also easy to defend both off the top and for mauls. I wouldn't be surprised, especially if Lawes is at 6, if England throw to the riskier areas accepting that over a long period your retention will be lower but your platform for the maul or first phase backs play will be more potent.

Probably not before this world cup, but with his success at Saracens and now the improvements at Sale, does anyone think Sanderson could feature as an assistant in the England set up in the future?

Poorfour wrote:I agree there’s a need for coherent selection - and one of the things I was most critical about in Eddie’s selection was his tendency not to use existing partnerships.
Given how competitive the Premiership is, though, you need to pick from more than two teams. For all that Leicester and Sarries were last year’s finalists, not all their players are the best in their position, especially given player movements since last season and this season’s form.

I've never been a believer in picking club partnerships. It's often raised as a necessity to help inexperienced players bed in but if you look at almost any great international player they got there through their ability to adapt to what their team needed, not needing the team to adapt to them.

Carter being perhaps the greatest example of this. Starting off as a running 10 who often played 12 for the Saders and kicked very little. He moulded himself into the fly-half for a side that kicked more than any other team in rugby. Basically sanding off the rough edges and accepting that his role in that side was frequently, though not always, being the voice of pragmatism.

Strong international players can mould themselves into what the team need them to be. That shouldn't require picking club partnerships.

yappysnap wrote:Probably not before this world cup, but with his success at Saracens and now the improvements at Sale, does anyone think Sanderson could feature as an assistant in the England set up in the future?

Rumours are he was briefly spoken to as a potential head coach candidate earlier this year. It's all rumours but it sounds like Borthwick had already agreed to join in the summer so they've been planning Jones successor for a while. Apparently Sanderson was somewhere in the discussion.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Having a crack at 3 teams or less...

Marler George Collier
Itoje Chessum
Kenningham Earl
Dombrandt

van Poorvtliet Smith
Murley Farrell Marchant Lynagh
Steward

Vunipola Walker Heyes Tizard Evans Care Porter Watson

Well that makes grim reading.

I quite liked it.

king_carlos wrote:In terms of game plan my predictions would be:

Kick chase will be huge. Many won't like it but Borthwick focuses on it massively. Both kickers and chasers. Tigers forwards such as Cole, Liebenberg, Martin, Reffell, etc are relentless on kick chase under Borthwick. Someone such as May despite the dip in form could benefit there. Lawes and Curry fit that mould too. Earl for instance is absolutely outstanding in kick chase due to his pace. Ludlam is terrific there too.

They won't always be kicking to compete in the air either. Tigers, especially with Ford at 10, would very regularly kick long looking to find the right player or grass. By finding the right player I mean one that is least likely to kick it back. In the Prem final Wigglesworth targeting Billy V is a perfect example of this. Tigers love to kick to players who will run it at them then back their kick chase to hunt that runner down. Then their very aggressive blitz will target an attack on the back foot from the subsequent ruck.

Leading on from that, defence may move back to a very aggressive blitz more akin to the system seen under Gustard. More recently the England defence has remained very aggressive around the fringes but drifted more wider out. I expect we will see the backline blitz more if Borthwick comes in. That makes your outside centre absolutely vital to the defence. JJ was outstanding in Gustard's system using his pace to blitz but also cover the outside arc stopping sides getting outside the blitz. Slade might not be flavour of the month but probably is our best outside centre defensively.

If Borthwick's early days at Tigers are anything to go by we might see a fairly rigid structure ball in hand early on. If Tigers got the ball in the middle of the field they'd go through maybe two or three phases to try to get over the gain line. If they did get over the gain line and it was worth building on they'd build more phases. If not boot would go to ball and the kick chase pressures hard. Many fans won't like it but I'd guess it's likely early on.

The lineout will likely take risks for ball that is more difficult to defend. Perhaps at odds with what many would expect but Borthwick's lineout strategy with Japan, England and now Tigers has tended to include throwing to areas of the lineout where you risk losing the ball (either the tail where the throw is higher risk or the middle with numbers in where you're more frequently competed) to get better attacking ball. Front ball is easier retention but also easy to defend both off the top and for mauls. I wouldn't be surprised, especially if Lawes is at 6, if England throw to the riskier areas accepting that over a long period your retention will be lower but your platform for the maul or first phase backs play will be more potent.

Well the majority will give him a bit of time. If he plays exactly like Leicester despite having better resources then he will have to have a very high win percentage.

Club partnerships shouldn't be picked just because they are club partners. If for instance best 9/10 happen to play for same club then fine otherwise pick best 23/15. That's the entire point of coaching, especially Int coaching, get players to gel together.

If Eng cannot put together a coherent, functioning team because they don't all play for same club then they might as well give up now.

mountain man wrote:Club partnerships shouldn't be picked just because they are club partners. If for instance best 9/10 happen to play for same club then fine otherwise pick best 23/15. That's the entire point of coaching, especially Int coaching, get players to gel together.

If Eng cannot put together a coherent, functioning team because they don't all play for same club then they might as well give up now.

Chill. It's just a time filler.

Fair enough and believe me I have time to fill. Although today is 6 weeks post op so sling no more!
However, I suspect some do want to go down line of keeping club partnerships.

I have to say, I'm surprised still no announcement of Eng coach. Either to confirm or deny. Have to assume it must be Borthwick as otherwise he'd issue statement saying he was staying at Leicester.

As I'm bored doing power bi my team that I would love to see line up is as follows (completely ignoring injuries and whether people abroad are available etc).

Genge George Sinckler
Itoje Ribbans
Willis Curry
Dombrandt
Quirk Smith
Hassel-Collins Kelly Lawrence Radwan
Steward

Marler LCD Alo Chessum Mercer vP Farrell Watson



And yeah it's Borthwick. Just a matter of who he brings with him which seems to be complicating matters.

Pretty close to what I'd like, think though on current form I'd have Earl in place of Curry and I'd have Arundell instead of OHC.
Kelly Lawrence centres be great to see.
Might concede a couple tries but those wings would score more.

Completely forgot about Arundell, I'd swap him in for Watson.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Completely forgot about Arundell, I'd swap him in for Watson.

Who is going to compete in the kick chase or under high wide balls, Arundell and Radwan would get murdered, see Nowell vs SA. You need at least one big winger who can challenge legitimately on the kick chase and have a hope of catching it and also for defensive purposes to allow Steward to move wide and cover the smaller winger, preferably a winger / fullback. Watson would do the job, if and it is a big if, he can get back to where he was with speed. Otherwise May or Freeman.

Radwan and Arundell in the same team is a disaster waiting to happen defensively

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Completely forgot about Arundell, I'd swap him in for Watson.

Who is going to compete in the kick chase or under high wide balls, Arundell and Radwan would get murdered, see Nowell vs SA. You need at least one big winger who can challenge legitimately on the kick chase and have a hope of catching it and also for defensive purposes to allow Steward to move wide and cover the smaller winger, preferably a winger / fullback. Watson would do the job, if and it is a big if, he can get back to where he was with speed. Otherwise May or Freeman.

Radwan and Arundell in the same team is a disaster waiting to happen defensively

Does Hassel-Collins not count then?Arundell is also pretty decent in the air and has played full back too so if H-C or Steward were to be removed that's who my cover would be there. I like May but I do think the ones I'd choose have been in better form. Would you never go for Arundell or Radwan at all then?

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Radwan and Arundell in the same team is a disaster waiting to happen defensively

Arundell listed as 1.83m, May 1.86m. So May is 3cm taller.
Arundell also plays a lot at 15, no issue under high ball.

Ok if we are doing our teams...for a bit of fun

1 Genge
2 George
3 Sinckler (The Quins version)
4 Itoje
5 Ribbans
6 Ted Hill
7 Willis (Earl off the bench but close to starting - maybe horses for courses)
8 Dombrandt

9 Quirke
10 Ford
11 Watson
12 Kelly
13 Lawrence
14 Radwan
15 Steward

No 7&1/2 wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Completely forgot about Arundell, I'd swap him in for Watson.

Who is going to compete in the kick chase or under high wide balls, Arundell and Radwan would get murdered, see Nowell vs SA. You need at least one big winger who can challenge legitimately on the kick chase and have a hope of catching it and also for defensive purposes to allow Steward to move wide and cover the smaller winger, preferably a winger / fullback. Watson would do the job, if and it is a big if, he can get back to where he was with speed. Otherwise May or Freeman.

Radwan and Arundell in the same team is a disaster waiting to happen defensively

Does Hassel-Collins not count then?Arundell is also pretty decent in the air and has played full back too so if H-C or Steward were to be removed that's who my cover would be there. I like May but I do think the ones I'd choose have been in better form. Would you never go for Arundell or Radwan at all then?

Happy with one but not both together.

As I see it, Arundell is a fullback who can play winger like so many today, where I don't think he is strong enough is under the high ball when in a physical challenge. Under a high ball un-opposed, I have no issues. I think he would be bombed mercilessly by any side that has big wingers that can compete well for the high ball.

I have just looked at the stats, is he really 6ft tall and 15 stone, he doesn't look anything like that. When you compare him to Freeman who is 6'3" and 16st 3lb he looks much smaller. He looks much more Radwan's size.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Completely forgot about Arundell, I'd swap him in for Watson.

Who is going to compete in the kick chase or under high wide balls, Arundell and Radwan would get murdered, see Nowell vs SA. You need at least one big winger who can challenge legitimately on the kick chase and have a hope of catching it and also for defensive purposes to allow Steward to move wide and cover the smaller winger, preferably a winger / fullback. Watson would do the job, if and it is a big if, he can get back to where he was with speed. Otherwise May or Freeman.

Radwan and Arundell in the same team is a disaster waiting to happen defensively

Does Hassel-Collins not count then?Arundell is also pretty decent in the air and has played full back too so if H-C or Steward were to be removed that's who my cover would be there. I like May but I do think the ones I'd choose have been in better form. Would you never go for Arundell or Radwan at all then?

Happy with one but not both together.

As I see it, Arundell is a fullback who can play winger like so many today, where I don't think he is strong enough is under the high ball when in a physical challenge. Under a high ball un-opposed, I have no issues. I think he would be bombed mercilessly by any side that has big wingers that can compete well for the high ball.

I have just looked at the stats, is he really 6ft tall and 15 stone, he doesn't look anything like that. When you compare him to Freeman who is 6'3" and 16st 3lb he looks much smaller. He looks much more Radwan's size.

Put your cards down then WPI!

No 7&1/2 wrote:
And yeah it's Borthwick. Just a matter of who he brings with him which seems to be complicating matters.

I believe timing is the issue. If the RFU wants to decimate the Tigers coaching team immediately then the amount of compensation is going to be substantial. There's some in the RFU who don't like how much is being spent on the men's senior squad so paying out lots of compensation after the expense of sacking Eddie won't be popular.

Finding a balance of who joins when and for how much is ongoing and Borthwick has already said he is looking forward to coaching Tigers for the Clermont game at the weekend.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:I think he would be bombed mercilessly by any side that has big wingers that can compete well for the high ball.

Like the SA wings? Nikosi 183cm. Mapimpi 184cm. Kolbe 170cm. They don't seem to be not picked due high balls.

Yeah that's what I meant Sam. All a bit messy, given the situation with Jones over the last 3 years and certainly since they must have come pretty close to sacking him last year I should be a touch surprised they hadn't already got a plan together. May be like you suggest that the money they thought they would have to pay is small in terms of what Leicester are after. Wonder if they are batting it back to Borthwick to say no, pick someone else in your support staff?

mountain man wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:I think he would be bombed mercilessly by any side that has big wingers that can compete well for the high ball.

Like the SA wings? Nikosi 183cm. Mapimpi 184cm. Kolbe 170cm. They don't seem to be not picked due high balls.

Possibly not, but SA certainly targeted Nowell with great success using centres and backrowers to challenge for the ball supported by a winger. That we or others didn't do the same is another issue, but we did try, just kicked too long and there was no challenges.

Well in fairness Nowell shouldn't have been picked neither should several others! I take your point about competing for high balls which are a big part but picking a wing based on that doesn't necessarily work anyway as opposition will identify cover is there and change tack.
I think pick best players and coach a game plan to get best out of them as a team with tactics to suit.

Sounds easy...

Not sure Freeman was that good either though.

Sometimes its nice to pick players who can actually worry the opposition aswell....not just pick players because they'll defend the best.

Geordie wrote:Sometimes its nice to pick players who can actually worry the opposition aswell....not just pick players because they'll defend the best.

Yes. Of course a player picked needs not to be a liability but its been a while now since Watson and May were at their peak where I thought when the winger got space it's a try.

Geordie wrote:Sometimes its nice to pick players who can actually worry the opposition aswell....not just pick players because they'll defend the best.

Hence my option of Freeman and Arundell, both play 15 as well as wing, both are fast, one exceptionally so, one has wizzarding skills ball in hand, the other Ashton like ability to be on the shoulder of a breaking player, one is a great chaser and has the size to disrupt the opposition when challenging for high balls even if he doesn't catch it. Along with Steward I would say they would make a great back three. If of course they ever got the ball that far along the line without hoofing it badly.

Been listening to rugby sounds with chris jone and Ugo  monye about Borthwick the next England coach.

I dont have any think against Borthwick ,

How about
Chris Jones =Head Coach

Ugo Monya -Defence Coach

Danny Care- Scrum/Forwards Coach

Cgris Ashton -Backs Coach.

IF THESE FOUR DO TAKE OVER ENGLAND  COACHES ,

GOD HELP US.

king_carlos wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Probably not before this world cup, but with his success at Saracens and now the improvements at Sale, does anyone think Sanderson could feature as an assistant in the England set up in the future?

Rumours are he was briefly spoken to as a potential head coach candidate earlier this year. It's all rumours but it sounds like Borthwick had already agreed to join in the summer so they've been planning Jones successor for a while. Apparently Sanderson was somewhere in the discussion.

Interesting, I don't know why there's always the obsession with club coaches going in straight to head coach, Sanderson seems decent but surely it would still be smarter for him to get some experience as an assistant rather than jumping straight into the top job. Anyway it's all moot now, looks like it's Borthwicks job and he'll be wanting his own guys in there.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not sure Freeman was that good either though.

I mean 6 tries in 8 games this season, 14 in 21 last season (17 starts). Really good under the high ball, big lad, quick and half decent boot. Only weakness he could work on is his kick chase. There's plenty to work with.

He's struggled at international level so far but we haven't really been giving it to the backs in space, he's been solid at least. For various reasons the attack hasn't been producing so much like Cokanasiga it's hard to be to harsh. Not like any wing we've selected has really torn it up.

Whatever happens, I just want the best in-form players to be selected, not someone who's out of form but might produce their best because they had a couple of good games 3 years ago.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not sure Freeman was that good either though.

I mean 6 tries in 8 games this season, 14 in 21 last season (17 starts). Really good under the high ball, big lad, quick and half decent boot. Only weakness he could work on is his kick chase. There's plenty to work with.

He's struggled at international level so far but we haven't really been giving it to the backs in space, he's been solid at least. For various reasons the attack hasn't been producing so much like Cokanasiga it's hard to be to harsh. Not like any wing we've selected has really torn it up.

Really you could ask if any backs have shone this season for England?

I'd say probably Steward consistently.

After that JVP, Smith and Farrell all had very up and down seasons.

After that the rest have all struggled (not always their fault though)

A few of these won't be popular but in several cases in the backs I'm more interested in seeing whether certain known players work better in a different structure and game plan than seeing certain youngsters.

1.Genge 2.George 3.Cole 4.Itoje 5.Tizard 6.Lawes 7.Curry 8.Vunipola/Dombrandt/Mercer
9.JvP 10.Farrell 11.May 12.Kelly 13.Slade 14.Watson 15.Steward

16.LCD 17.Marler 18.Sinckler 19.Chessum 20.Earl 21.Quirke 22.Smith 23.Arundell

As said earlier I suspect we may move back to a very aggressive blitz so having a fantastic defender at 13 is paramount to that. Defence usually begins attack at international level by providing turnover ball from pressure. I think Slade is a brilliant defender and I want to see what he could offer leading that aggressive blitz.

Watson is looking near his best and I want to see what May still offers in a different back line with a better game plan. Freeman and one of Radwan or OHC would be my other wingers in the squad to pressure hard. Lawrence and Manu my other centres around the squad who's carrying could be used as the game plan requires.

In the back row Earl just ahead of Willis is a tough call but I think Earls pace and support lines it offers can add a lot in attack. Willis would certainly be in my wider squad. Number 8 will largely depend on the game plan. I think those three are at a similar level of performance at the moment but offer differing skills.

As said I expect many won't like it but it's my thoughts. Just to add a cherry on the cake I genuinely think Daly's form this season warrants a recall to the squad too. I wouldn't use him at 15 but as a winger and 13 I'd pick him.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not sure Freeman was that good either though.

I mean 6 tries in 8 games this season, 14 in 21 last season (17 starts). Really good under the high ball, big lad, quick and half decent boot. Only weakness he could work on is his kick chase. There's plenty to work with.

He's struggled at international level so far but we haven't really been giving it to the backs in space, he's been solid at least. For various reasons the attack hasn't been producing so much like Cokanasiga it's hard to be to harsh. Not like any wing we've selected has really torn it up.

Lots of potential. As above don't think he'd be troubling my squad as of now.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not sure Freeman was that good either though.

I mean 6 tries in 8 games this season, 14 in 21 last season (17 starts). Really good under the high ball, big lad, quick and half decent boot. Only weakness he could work on is his kick chase. There's plenty to work with.

He's struggled at international level so far but we haven't really been giving it to the backs in space, he's been solid at least. For various reasons the attack hasn't been producing so much like Cokanasiga it's hard to be to harsh. Not like any wing we've selected has really torn it up.

Lots of potential. As above don't think he'd be troubling my squad as of now.

He'd be in my wider squad, not sure he'd make the 23. I'd certainly have a look at him as the understudy for Steward though. Maybe a start there Vs Italy or next summer's pre world cup friendly. Covering wing and fullback as he does at club level makes him more useful and he's the closest thing to a direct Steward replacement.

It's a struggle to make conclusions due to how muddled those Jones tactics were from the last few years. The promise that actually it's a really attacking running rugby format just never held much sway when you watched the turgid games. For me I look at what Radwan can do and think wow, you can't teach some of the things he can do, hence I'd love to see him get a few games run and see. If he's a massive liability fair enough move on but he's never had the chance. Particularly if we do follow a bit of a more keep everything tight game plan a guy like him could be one of the ways to create out of nothing (Kolbe for SA) and we're seen Graham have a big impact for Scotland.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's a struggle to make conclusions due to how muddled those Jones tactics were from the last few years. The promise that actually it's a really attacking running rugby format just never held much sway when you watched the turgid games. For me I look at what Radwan can do and think wow, you can't teach some of the things he can do, hence I'd love to see him get a few games run and see. If he's a massive liability fair enough move on but he's never had the chance. Particularly if we do follow a bit of a more keep everything tight game plan a guy like him could be one of the ways to create out of nothing (Kolbe for SA) and we're seen Graham have a big impact for Scotland.

What's even more strange with Radwan is he was fantastic (albeit against lower level opposition) in his few caps. He did things very few players can do....one of the fastest players in the game......4 tries in 2 games.....dropped entirely from the squad.

And Blamire will be starting hooker for us now...so lets hope he gets his darts sorted (like LCD did) and can move on to the next level...

Geordie wrote:And Blamire will be starting hooker for us now...so lets hope he gets his darts sorted (like LCD did) and can move on to the next level...

Blamire and Radwan are two players with real world class potential for me and they've been treat seemingly quite badly by EJ. Blamire is a brute and could be our version of Marx with some fine tuning, I really rate him. Although I really like Tom Lindsay and said he just needed to improve his throwing......he never did!

So am i hearing correctly?

RFU paying £1 million to Leicester after Tigers got Borthwick to sign a 3 year deal after the prem win which was kept secret.
Sinfield to succeed Borthwick
Walters to stay at Tigers.

I've said same for over a year about likes of Radwan, cannot believe he's not had more of a chance. It was blindingly obvious Nowell and even May now not got pace needed yet Jones keeps picking them. Give the young guns a decent go over 6N, if not up to it then at least had a chance.
Can only hope Borthwick sees it for likes of him, Earl, Lawrence etc.

Geordie wrote:So am i hearing correctly?

RFU paying £1 million to Leicester after Tigers got Borthwick to sign a 3 year deal after the prem win which was kept secret.
Sinfield to succeed Borthwick
Walters to stay at Tigers.

So Sinfield not going to England with Borthwick? Shame as be great for Eng. The Edwards to Borthwicks Gatland.

Geordie wrote:So am i hearing correctly?

RFU paying £1 million to Leicester after Tigers got Borthwick to sign a 3 year deal after the prem win which was kept secret.
Sinfield to succeed Borthwick
Walters to stay at Tigers.

I mean that would be utterly stupid so something the RFU would do! Can't see truth in that though else he would have already been announced.

Geordie wrote:So am i hearing correctly?

RFU paying £1 million to Leicester after Tigers got Borthwick to sign a 3 year deal after the prem win which was kept secret.
Sinfield to succeed Borthwick
Walters to stay at Tigers.

What happened to the Tigers demanding £500k? Or have the RFU simply gone "sod it we'll double it"?