Silly Season Transfer Rumours 22/23

First topic message reminder :

And.....off you go.

Yeah and Clermont are now after a new tighthead as well after ripping Haouas's contract following his conviction.

Sam whitelock has signed a two year deal with Pau, post RWC

Fluxy wrote:Sam whitelock has signed a two year deal with Pau, post RWC

Looks like Pau are doing some shopping this summer. Joe Simmonds is confirmed as going there as well.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Fluxy wrote:Sam whitelock has signed a two year deal with Pau, post RWC

Looks like Paul are doing some shopping this summer. Joe Simmonds is confirmed as going there as well.

Simmonds and Whitelock are big signings for a chain boulangerie!

mikey_dragon wrote:That would be much better than D2.

Depends what club in D2 I guess. Not sure if there are any in D2, but a 2 year stint in the South of France would be a bit nicer than 2 years in Sale.

If he's playing in D2 he shouldn't feature for Wales.

Probably already been speculated. But Harry Potter has signed for Western Force and Jimmy Gopperth to AIX

I've seen Francis to Provence reported by a couple sources now. We need to be looking at our prop stables very carefully now, get contracts at Welsh Regions out to Joe Jones and Henry Thomas and hope for the best. WillGriff John too, but perhaps on a pay-as-you-play contract!

Looking at the backs, Joe Jenkins of Bristol/England U20 is highly rated and supposedly told Hayward he's comitted to Wales. There is also a Welsh 9 and back-three player, both pretty good, with England U20. We need to be keeping a close eye on these.

mikey_dragon wrote:If he's playing in D2 he shouldn't feature for Wales.

Yes, 13th-15th in the URC table is such a far higher standard it couldn’t possibly be considered

BamBam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:If he's playing in D2 he shouldn't feature for Wales.

Yes, 13th-15th in the URC table is such a far higher standard it couldn’t possibly be considered

Yes it is, exactly.

I also thought the teams in those positions beat Leicester and Sale

mikey_dragon wrote:Looking at the backs, Joe Jenkins of Bristol/England U20 is highly rated and supposedly told Hayward he's comitted to Wales. There is also a Welsh 9 and back-three player, both pretty good, with England U20. We need to be keeping a close eye on these.

Jenkins and Hathaway aren't particularly impressive. Hathaway has a lot of pace but isn't particularly reliable, he could be improved. Jenkins has been around the Bristol team despite only being 19 but looked average for the under 20s and won't be in the starting line up for the JWC unless there's injuries.

If the scrum half you are thinking of is Nye Thomas then there's some serious potential there. I'm hoping he'll be fit for the JWC as he'll add some invention to our halfbacks who have generally lacked it.

mikey_dragon wrote:

BamBam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:If he's playing in D2 he shouldn't feature for Wales.

Yes, 13th-15th in the URC table is such a far higher standard it couldn’t possibly be considered

Yes it is, exactly.

I also thought the teams in those positions beat Leicester and Sale

To be fair everyone beat Tigers in the few games after Borthwick and Sinfield left. Having the heart ripped out the coaching team on short notice obviously required some internal rebuilding.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Looking at the backs, Joe Jenkins of Bristol/England U20 is highly rated and supposedly told Hayward he's comitted to Wales. There is also a Welsh 9 and back-three player, both pretty good, with England U20. We need to be keeping a close eye on these.

Jenkins and Hathaway aren't particularly impressive. Hathaway has a lot of pace but isn't particularly reliable, he could be improved. Jenkins has been around the Bristol team despite only being 19 but looked average for the under 20s and won't be in the starting line up for the JWC unless there's injuries.

If the scrum half you are thinking of is Nye Thomas then there's some serious potential there. I'm hoping he'll be fit for the JWC as he'll add some invention to our halfbacks who have generally lacked it.

Most of the Jenkins write-ups have been coming from Bristol. He's a big lad, and plays centre and I'm sure he also featured at full-back.

Yeah it's Nye Thomas. Not sure if his dad was a player or anything. I guess he could still opt for England at senior level. We haven't had a great 9 come through in a while... we kinda did, until he opted for Italy.

Yeah Sale is becoming a scrum half factory just like Tigers. England have produced some good 9s but we haven't seen one really push on to international top quality in a while now.

Not like France when they can send a scrum half that would be in a lot of nations world cup squads to the junior world cup instead.

Yeah Jenkins might come good, hard to say at this age but I'm expecting the centre combination to be Woodward and Ma'asi White for England at the JWC.

Rumours that Bath are after Pearson and Arundel....anyone heard those? An truth?

Geordie wrote:Rumours that Bath are after Pearson and Arundel....anyone heard those? An truth?

It's a rumour doing the rounds. Arundell would make sense as he's a Bath boy who ended up at LI after attending Harrow.

Pearson would be more of a surprise and there's rumours linking him with Bristol and Chiefs as well. Half the league will be after him, cap allowing.

Ah right...Pearson will be wanted by everyone as you say.

We are unveiling our last signing at the Falcons Forum at KP on Monday 12th...supposedly a big one. Hopefully a really good 10...

Geordie wrote:Ah right...Pearson will be wanted by everyone as you say.

We are unveiling our last signing at the Falcons Forum at KP on Monday 12th...supposedly a big one. Hopefully a really good 10...

I did see something suggesting you were looking at Paddy Jackson should the worst happen with LI.

Yeah theres an ongoing debate on that theory on the falcons site. Some for it...some apparently totally against it.

Geordie wrote:Yeah theres an ongoing debate on that theory on the falcons site. Some for it...some apparently totally against it.

Just read that. Always an interesting discussion whenever PJ is involved...

It's an emotional topic and some fans would always be uncomfortable/resistant to him coming to a club. Without getting into that side of things (if there is anything in it at all)it's a risk and reward thing for Falcons.

Saw some fans worrying about his future conduct. That wouldn't be an issue. Going purely off the player's social media feeds, the bloke lives like a monk and keeps a very low profile. Never really seen out drinking with the other players, just the odd dog walking group and coffee etc. Coaches for the amateur club and never gives interviews. Sponsorship would always be a factor. Gets overplayed with LI's current issues, as Guinness wasn't actually a big value deal at the time and isn't why we are where we are, but clearly it's a reputational issue. Every now and then when his name is mentioned on Twitter there's a flood of negative social media media engagement from across the Irish Sea.

What you do get though is one of the best 10s in the league who can really get a backline moving and is very durable with it.  Also absolutely no danger of him ever being unavailable through international duty etc.

Edit - Although even if there was something in it, I doubt this would be what the signing on the 12th would be. You'd be waiting until the fat lady has actually sung at LI before announcing that there was a signing to announce. You'd also announce his singing in as low key a way as possible.

Four seasons at LI and you can't fault his on field work, 18 games, 22, 28 and then 23 last season shows he's durable as you say. Only three games he didn't play the full 80 last season and one of those was because of a yellow card. He's definitely value for money.

That scandal that I won't discuss other than to say it's tainted his reputation is the only reason he's not a regular international and not on big money at a top side (though LI were starting to like they were pushing towards contention last season).

Yeah, theres a few individuals on the Falcons forum with very high moral standings but everyone is entitled to their opinions.

In my view he would be a bloody good signing on the pitch...ill leave the other topic for debate.

However as Marg has said...ill be VERY surprised if he is announced. It'll be interesting to see who it actually is.

As i said...hopefully a good 10. Doesnt have to be world beating...just someone who can finally become the fulcrum and game controller we need. We have some bloody good backs to get moving....and signing 2 7s, and keeping Pepper suggests a style of play.

People have been watching Codlings team in France...and it appears they play at an absurdly high tempo for 80 mins plus.

Thats the type of thing we have said we need for years...with our type of players.

Some players might get a shock in preseason....

mikey_dragon wrote:If he's playing in D2 he shouldn't feature for Wales.

I agree - that level of rugby won't help him. He won't be up against the best props in that league. Plus they play even more games than the Top14 so he will get flogged.

Japan and the MLR just don't play the same intensity in those leagues. It's the same with Pro D2. I know some will make the argument is that Japan helps players recover due to the small season but we have seen with the South African players going there they take a few games at international to get back into the swing of things.

One of the reasons I was happy to see the URC drop games is it does the same thing as Japan for player welfare but given the teams and players in it will only improve standards. Its why I think the Top14 is fundamentally flawed as a league. They simply play to many league games to keep standards high across them all.

If I am honest I would actually prefer the URC to take it one step further. Personally I would love to see it move to a 1 fixture per league team which would mean currently going from 18 to 15. Granted that would leave an uneven amount so potentially you could add another side just to round it to 16 games so everyone gets 8 home and 8 away every season. Even if the clubs need 18 games I'd rather see 3 more sides added as that might even allow some additional nations into competitive rugby such as Georgia, Spain & Germany. I know people think the key to successful international teams is being able to play teams at the highest level but its actually about the standard and access of leagues below that. I would argue that Italy's improvement recently has been primarily because of the URC involvement and not the 6 Nations.

AWJ has left Ospreys. He did mention he might have one more domestic club in him possibly. Could mean a move to France or England as some WC cover for someone.

I cant believe the out of contract player situation all over the world at the moment.

By my count still well over 350 players from Scotland, Wales, Ireland, France, England are still all looking for clubs. It's never happened in any other part of the history of pro rugby.

Some will find some clubs I'm sure but it's not looking good for a lot of them at the minute.

Welshmushroom wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:If he's playing in D2 he shouldn't feature for Wales.

I agree - that level of rugby won't help him.  He won't be up against the best props in that league. Plus they play even more games than the Top14 so he will get flogged.

Japan and the MLR just don't play the same intensity in those leagues.  It's the same with Pro D2.  I know some will make the argument is that Japan helps players recover due to the small season but we have seen with the South African players going there they take a few games at international to get back into the swing of things.

One of the reasons I was happy to see the URC drop games is it does the same thing as Japan for player welfare but given the teams and players in it will only improve standards.  Its why I think the Top14 is fundamentally flawed as a league.  They simply play to many league games to keep standards high across them all.

If I am honest I would actually prefer the URC to take it one step further.  Personally I would love to see it move to a 1 fixture per league team which would mean currently going from 18 to 15.  Granted that would leave an uneven amount so potentially you could add another side just to round it to 16 games so everyone gets 8 home and 8 away every season.  Even if the clubs need 18 games I'd rather see 3 more sides added as that might even allow some additional nations into competitive rugby such as Georgia, Spain & Germany.  I know people think the key to successful international teams is being able to play teams at the highest level but its actually about the standard and access of leagues below that.  I would argue that Italy's improvement recently has been primarily because of the URC involvement and not the 6 Nations.  

I’d rather the URC be home and away with equal fixtures. Otherwise it’s luck of the draw to a point. Shouldn’t have to make fictional derbies between the Scots and the Italians to make double headers. Shouldn’t invite more teams in either. You can’t really win a league properly, without it depending on where you play a team.

Also, there’s a few Italians saying they enjoyed their own league better. Italy are good now, as their Union invested in their future.

German rugby is awful. I’ve played there before too. Full of travelling uni students etc, in their top flight.

RiscaGame wrote:Also, there’s a few Italians saying they enjoyed their own league better. Italy are good now, as their Union invested in their future.

German rugby is awful. I’ve played there before too. Full of travelling uni students etc, in their top flight.

The Italian investments have unfortunately been rolled back on. They are going away from the National academys that have lead to a huge upsurge in underage performances in the last few years and also Steve Aboud (perhaps the best  high performance director out there) has left and went to Canada due to Italian incompetence. Unfortunately I fully expect Italys underage performance to return back to status quo soon.

Here is Stephen talking about it himself:
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/the-left-wing/dubliner-stephen-aboud-took-his-italian-rugby-job-after-signing-a-hotel-napkin-in-the-gresham/42351646.html

Gary Graham was leaving us to go to Carcasson in France. They have been relegated so his transfer has been cancelled and he's now without a club

Apparently we had offered him a renewal which was 30% less than his old one but he rejected it

Apparently Cardiff and Oyonnax are competing for D'Arcy Rae's signature.

Gary Graham is at an awkward stage in his career and fingers crossed he can get a Pro D2 club. As someone mentioned, there are too many players competing for too few contracts.

Geordie wrote:Gary Graham was leaving us to go to Carcasson in France.  They have been relegated so his transfer has been cancelled and he's now without a club  

Apparently we had offered him a renewal which was 30% less than his old one but he rejected it  

Oh that's a shame. I'm off to Carcassonne as part of a mini French tour next month......I was hoping to pop into him.

Arundell to Bath. Pearson to Northampton. Loader, Hopkins and Joseph to Saracens. White to Scotland via their union according to the telegraph.

Adam Coleman, signed with Bordeaux following L Irish demise

Scottish centre Sam Johnson signed with Brive for next season

Coleman is a terrific player but has really struggled to get on the pitch across his 4 seasons at LI. He's eligible for Tonga now I believe. Another quality player they could call on at the RWC.

king_carlos wrote:Coleman is a terrific player but has really struggled to get on the pitch across his 4 seasons at LI. He's eligible for Tonga now I believe. Another quality player they could call on at the RWC.

I'd imagine any deal to France would be with the caveat he isn't playing at the world cup. It's how it seems to be going. That being said he'd add quite a bit to Tonga and I'd like to see them go well at the world cup.

Did I read somewhere that Coleman was getting 900k at Irish???

There are a myriad of reason for LI's implosion and overspend in the season prior to covid (when they were trying to avoid a third successive relegation) is certainly one of them.

That said, I would be stunned if Coleman was on that much. It was a figure thrown out there at the time by the Ruck or Rugbypass and mentioned as fact (with a 'reported' tacked on) ever since.

I thought I saw the £900k number as well, just recently in an article in one of the major newspapers, though can't recall where. Certainly not Ruck or one of the other Rugby sites. I was pretty surprised he was earning that much because I never regarded him as an all-world type player, nor as a game changer. But good on him, it's a short career and get what one can.

The only way I can see that figure coming about is it being the cost of the contract across its 3-year length. It's happened before with rugby that the value of a players contract has been quoted across it's length like then some drivel spewing machine such Ruck report it as their yearly earnings.

Wages were already dropping a bit, though nothing like what happened during and after COVID, at that point as well.

doctor_grey wrote:I thought I saw the £900k number as well, just recently in an article in one of the major newspapers, though can't recall where.  Certainly not Ruck or one of the other Rugby sites.  I was pretty surprised he was earning that much because I never regarded him as an all-world type player, nor as a game changer.  But good on him, it's a short career and get what one can.  

Sure, you will have seen it in a regular news outlet. What I mean is it was thrown out there as a speculative figure in 2019 when he signed and turned up everywhere since, just with a 'reported' tagged on the quote.

We absolutely will have spent too much that summer pre covid in a bid to avoid a third successive relegation. I just can't see that figure being true though.

Ultimately rugby salaries aren't public, so whatever figure is first mentioned somewhere just gets taken as fact forever more.

Heard from a couple of folk now that Marcus Smith is getting chased very hard by Racing. His contract expires in 2024 and he'd suit their style of play perfectly.

That's when the cap is (supposed to be...) going back up so there should be room for Quins to make a decent counter offer. If Smith isn't already their marquee (it must be Smith or big Andre) then he probably would be after that renegotiation anyway so it may be a case of Esterhuizen being the one to fit under a (potentially) bigger cap. That will all depend on there being funds, cap space or not, to outbid Racing though.

Lots up in the air in that paragraph as is usually the case with Prem speculation at the moment!

You'd have thought Racing will be diverting their attention to Paddy Jackson now. No buy out price, very resilient and more than capable of playing attacking rugby.

Margin_Walker wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I thought I saw the £900k number as well, just recently in an article in one of the major newspapers, though can't recall where.  Certainly not Ruck or one of the other Rugby sites.  I was pretty surprised he was earning that much because I never regarded him as an all-world type player, nor as a game changer.  But good on him, it's a short career and get what one can.  

Sure, you will have seen it in a regular news outlet. What I mean is it was thrown out there as a speculative figure in 2019 when he signed and turned up everywhere since, just with a 'reported' tagged on the quote.

We absolutely will have spent too much that summer pre covid in a bid to avoid a third successive relegation. I just can't see that figure being true though.

Ultimately rugby salaries aren't public, so whatever figure is first mentioned somewhere just gets taken as fact forever more.

Could well be. And that makes sense to me from the standpoint that I never thought of him as a player who would be on nearly a million per year contract. But I did see the number in print recently, but my encroaching senility prevents me from recalling where. I don't read (or look at the pictures) at Ruck, though I might start if they show pretty women instead of men's team Props.

Being reported that Warrick Gelant might be cutting his stay at Racing 92 and heading back to the Stormers.....

Falcons have signed Argentina tight head Eduardo Bello.

Geordie wrote:Falcons have signed Argentina tight head Eduardo Bello.

On theory a good signing but he didn't seem to get much in the way of chances at Sarries last season. Must be hoping for more at Falcons. Definitely upgrades at tighthead for Falcons.

Yeah...im happy with it. Weve done some very good summer signing business.

Back at preseason yesterday and feelings are the falcons will be MUCH fitter this season.
Going to be interesting to see how we go.

And a defence coach being announced in a week or so.

doctor_grey wrote:

Margin_Walker wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I thought I saw the £900k number as well, just recently in an article in one of the major newspapers, though can't recall where.  Certainly not Ruck or one of the other Rugby sites.  I was pretty surprised he was earning that much because I never regarded him as an all-world type player, nor as a game changer.  But good on him, it's a short career and get what one can.  

Sure, you will have seen it in a regular news outlet. What I mean is it was thrown out there as a speculative figure in 2019 when he signed and turned up everywhere since, just with a 'reported' tagged on the quote.

We absolutely will have spent too much that summer pre covid in a bid to avoid a third successive relegation. I just can't see that figure being true though.

Ultimately rugby salaries aren't public, so whatever figure is first mentioned somewhere just gets taken as fact forever more.

Could well be.  And that makes sense to me from the standpoint that I never thought of him as a player who would be on nearly a million per year contract.  But I did see the number in print recently, but my encroaching senility prevents me from recalling where.  I don't read (or look at the pictures) at Ruck, though I might start if they show pretty women instead of men's team Props.  

That 900k figure is repeated in the Guardian. Apparently O'Brien was also on the same amount which hasn't proved to be stellar business. Crossan is complaining of senior decision making in the RFU, those are surely big blunders. The guy at 10 was also on the same amount.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Margin_Walker wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I thought I saw the £900k number as well, just recently in an article in one of the major newspapers, though can't recall where.  Certainly not Ruck or one of the other Rugby sites.  I was pretty surprised he was earning that much because I never regarded him as an all-world type player, nor as a game changer.  But good on him, it's a short career and get what one can.  

Sure, you will have seen it in a regular news outlet. What I mean is it was thrown out there as a speculative figure in 2019 when he signed and turned up everywhere since, just with a 'reported' tagged on the quote.

We absolutely will have spent too much that summer pre covid in a bid to avoid a third successive relegation. I just can't see that figure being true though.

Ultimately rugby salaries aren't public, so whatever figure is first mentioned somewhere just gets taken as fact forever more.

Could well be.  And that makes sense to me from the standpoint that I never thought of him as a player who would be on nearly a million per year contract.  But I did see the number in print recently, but my encroaching senility prevents me from recalling where.  I don't read (or look at the pictures) at Ruck, though I might start if they show pretty women instead of men's team Props.  

That 900k figure is repeated in the Guardian. Apparently O'Brien was also on the same amount which hasn't proved to be stellar business. Crossan is complaining of senior decision making in the RFU, those are surely big blunders. The guy at 10 was also on the same amount.

I heard Coleman was 900k (not denied in any quarters at LI), with SOB/Mafi/Simmonds around the 500k mark.

I know Falcons are getting a lot of stick for their apparent lack of spending (devaluing the league etc). But surely it's better to have a side on a lower budget than have no side at all?

I for one don't really get the stick we're getting. Most leagues in the world will have sides spending different amounts and if anything, being on a smaller budget make you be more creative in other ways.