Glasgow and Edinburgh 29 - Buckfast & Bollinger

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29 threads. There is officially something wrong with us.

https://www.606v2.com/t70624p1000-glasgow-and-edinburgh-28-and-counting-the-banter-goes-on?ns=7ndk62cdm0w%3D#4069230

bsando wrote:Nice game for redpath going by the Bath v Exeter highlights

Yeah the combination of Redpath and Lawrence ran rampant against Chiefs yesterday.

How are the Edinburgh feeling ahead of Friday?

formerly known as Sam wrote:

bsando wrote:Nice game for redpath going by the Bath v Exeter highlights

Yeah the combination of Redpath and Lawrence ran rampant against Chiefs yesterday.

How are the Edinburgh feeling ahead of Friday?

Was gonna say it would be typically Edinburgh to be rotten in the league yet put in a one off big cup performance (we've been doing it for years) but our form has nosedived so much I can't see us getting close.

I was reading recently that we have won only 1 league game since November - that really is appalling

RDW wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

bsando wrote:Nice game for redpath going by the Bath v Exeter highlights

Yeah the combination of Redpath and Lawrence ran rampant against Chiefs yesterday.

How are the Edinburgh feeling ahead of Friday?

Was gonna say it would be typically Edinburgh to be rotten in the league yet put in a one off big cup performance (we've been doing it for years) but our form has nosedived so much I can't see us getting close.

I was reading recently that we have won only 1 league game since November - that really is appalling

Fairly standard for a Scottish to same the team will be pish and then they come out with a statement performance. That does seem like a poor run of form though you'll have all your internationals back for this one.

Tigers have had a good run of form following three or four pretty woeful performances after Borthwick left for England. Some injury concerns around lock and centre though with three of each injured. We aren't massively strong on the wingers front either so expect Steward on the wing and then the old boys Gopperth and Brown at 12 and 15.

I see Hoggy has announced he is retiring from competitive rugby after the World Cup. So we can expect to see him at full back for the Luvvies then.

So Hoggy calling it s day

I guess he does not want to be making up the numbers and he does seem to have lost his phydicsl edge these past 18 months.

Hopefully he can get patched up for one last crack at the WC, but in truth he is not a guaranteed pick sny more for Scotland

He seems to have some retirement plans arranged already. I wonder if it is inside or outside rugby?

Either way it does seem the end of an era gor Scottish rugby

I have to say, I am not quite as optimistic as Tim Swinson, MoM in Glasgow's great win down there to secure their first Euro Knockout place, who reckons Edinburgh have a chance. Still an enjoyable wander down memory lane though in this interview with Mark Palmer for the Times. Good to hear he is back up in Scotland again as well and doing well in his new career.



The last time a Scottish side went to Welford Road in the Heineken Champions Cup it resulted in a record European defeat for Leicester Tigers as a side coached by Aaron Mauger succumbed 43-0 to Glasgow Warriors in January 2017. It was the first time Leicester had lost at home in ten years and 35 matches of cross-continental combat.

Tim Swinson, a try-scoring man of the match for the Warriors that famous afternoon, believes there is hope for Edinburgh in the East Midlands on Friday, but believes they would be better served reflecting on their (very) recent win over Saracens than anything their Scottish rivals did more than six years ago.

Amid a dire sequence of United Rugby Championship results, which has resulted in Mike Blair’s team plummeting to 14th in the table, Edinburgh pulled off a 20-14 home success against three-times European champions Saracens in January, having lost by only four points to the same opponents in North London the previous month.

Swinson, a childhood Saracens fan who had two seasons there before calling time on his playing career last summer, was most impressed by what he saw from the Scots in those two matches, particularly the second one.

“They played really, really well in January,” he enthused. “I would say as a caveat that I don’t think Saracens played at all well, I don’t think they did what Saracens usually do. But that doesn’t take away from what Edinburgh did and how they did it.

“Leicester will be a very similar challenge for them [in the Champions Cup round of 16]. Leicester want to be physical, want to dominate you, want to put you under pressure through a lot of the same ways.

“The crossover between Saracens and Leicester is remarkably clear. Richard Wigglesworth is the coach now, Steve Borthwick was the coach previously — they are both very much versed in how to play as a Saracen and now ask for the same things from their players.

“Leicester have a good kicking game. Jack van Poortvliet [the scrum half] in particular is a great kicker of the ball. Leicester will play in a very similar, but not identical, way to Saracens. If Edinburgh play as well as they did against Saracens, that will stand them in good stead to do well in this game too.”


Swinson is similarly enthused by the presence of Grant Gilchrist, the Edinburgh lock beside whom he won the last of his 38 Scotland caps on a summer trip to Argentina in 2018. The 32-year-old Alloa man, who missed the final two Six Nations games after his early red card against France, is a player who reminds Swinson of himself. In a good way.

“He works hard. He does a lot of the stuff that people don’t usually like doing and the stuff that allows players like Bill Mata, like Hamish [Watson] — the guys who are more of the show-ponies to some extent — to do the stuff that they like doing and that people like to see them doing.

“In some ways, it’s a similar role to what I did a lot of my career. You work hard, do a lot of the rucking, the clearing, the stuff that’s really important in professional rugby but where you don’t tend to get the accolades. No eight-year-old grows up wanting to know how you clear a ruck.

“Gilco is one of these people that if you play rugby you appreciate why he’s there. You also saw in the France game when he wasn’t there, the difference in the lineout without him. He’s a lump as well, really hard to move. He’s physical. A lot of the stuff you ask for as a second row.”

One of Swinson’s best all-round days in his eight years in a Glasgow shirt came at Welford Road. While there were eye-catching flashes of the all-court attacking game that came to define the Warriors under Gregor Townsend, the forwards did an exquisite number on a team, club and arena that for so long had been synonymous with pack prowess.

Of Glasgow’s six tries, three came from Swinson, Jonny Gray and Ryan Wilson, while another was awarded by the referee, Mathieu Raynal, when those men helped splinter Leicester’s lineout defence. On a day of many Warrior statements, that was among the most emphatic.

“You’ve got to put it down to Dan McFarland,” said Swinson, referencing the input of the then forwards coach who has since moved to Ulster via the Scotland national team. “One of the best forwards coaches I’ve had, one of the best man-managers I had the pleasure of playing under. His eye for detail and getting a forward pack to work as a unit was fantastic.

“Leicester had some really good players, but we played as a team. Dan got such great buy-in from the forward pack. A lot of our good forward performances came from team play. We worked out how to do things as a group rather than relying on one guy stealing all the lineouts or whatever.

“Leicester was a truly surreal day. The way Gregor and Dan play rugby is very structured and about reading into what the other team does. Their patterns, the things they think of, trying to prey on them and find weaknesses. We did that in that game. It was one of those games where everything we had planned worked hook, line and sinker.


“Ryan Wilson scored after a four-man lineout, we were laughing coming back from scoring the try because we couldn’t believe it had worked. We went into Scotland camp the week after, and Gilco said to me, ‘I saw that four-man lineout, saw the dummy you guys did and it was so bad I knew there was something special coming from it. There is no way you guys would have done something that bad and meant it’.

“We had a really long passage of play [27 phases] for Tommy Seymour’s try in the first ten minutes and I remember thinking we had broken them. Obviously they could have played better as a team, but I don’t think they were that bad. It was just that everything we did and had practised came off perfectly.

“Mine was a traditional forward’s try, being bumped over from about five metres out. I had Chris Fusaro pretty much holding me up. Him and I drove over the top of someone and scored. While I scored the try, I wouldn’t have got there about Chris, which typified Glasgow around that era, 2014-2017 — we worked incredibly hard for each other.

“The players that stick out for me in that period Pete Horne, Fusaro, Rob Harley, Jonny Gray, Fraser Brown, Tommy Seymour, Henry Pyrgos, they just worked really, really hard for each other. They got the most out of their abilities and the most out of everyone around them because they cared so much and pushed themselves so hard.”

Having become the first Scottish club side to win a major trophy (the then Pro12) in the professional era two years previously, Glasgow’s mauling of the Tigers broke more new ground by booking a maiden appearance in the Champions Cup quarter-finals. The feat also helped bury the lingering shame of the record 90-19 defeat that had been suffered at the same venue in 1997.

“When I first went to Glasgow [in 2012], it was after a period where Glasgow had been pretty bad and it had taken a lot of effort from guys like Al Kellock, Dougie Hall, Graeme Morrison, John Barclay and John Beattie to really go, ‘I don’t want to be in the bottom third anymore’ and they turned it around.

“That was something we kept coming back to. Everyone had your back, it didn’t really matter how good you were as long as you tried hard. The only players I ever felt didn’t succeed at Glasgow were the ones who didn’t try. By succeed, I mean be accepted by the group. As long as you worked hard, that’s all anyone ever asked.”

Swinson — who has degrees in politics and law and a postgraduate diploma in physiology — is now back north of the border and working in management consultancy with Johnston Carmichael, out of their Edinburgh office. He lives near Dollar with his wife, Elly, and two young daughters and while he is enjoying his new professional life, the transition has not been without its challenges.

“I feel like I walked out of rugby with the nigh-on perfect situation,” he acknowledged. “I left because I wanted to, I walked into a job that really suits my skills and that I want to do, and where there’s a real opportunity for progression as I get better.

“That side of it is great, but it’s the social, family stuff that I’ve found harder. You leave a changing room of 40 guys who are essentially the same age and background, have very similar goals and life experiences. You then go to an office where everyone gets on really well, you are similar in a lot of ways, but there’s an age range of early-20s to mid-60s, you’re doing very different jobs, and people may be driven by different things — what they want to do, why they are here, what their goals are to achieve.

jimbopip wrote:I see Hoggy has announced he is retiring from competitive rugby after the World Cup.  So we can expect to see him at full back for the Luvvies then.

I’m quite relieved to see Hogg is retiring. He’s been an amazing player for Scotland and it only feels like last year he was a few metres away from scoring in the corner against a very good AB’s side. As a player he has evolved since then. Yes he could be like Mornye Steyn or Mike Brown and play club rugby for a number of seasons, but I like that he is moving onto a new phase in his life and career with some of his best rugby only a few seasons behind him. Good for him and he has nothing left to prove. Just a shame he couldn’t lift that 6N trophy.

Jack Dempsey has just signed a contract extension

The number 8 said, " The SRU intimated that I could "ply my trade" in Luvvietoon but as I still choose to identify as a rugby player I shall remain at the Home Of The Once And Future Champions."

At least that's what I think he said. Sometimes I hear too many voices all talking at once and it gets kind of garbled.

Dempsey has been some signing for Glasgow, as good if not better than Josh Strauss, he can certainly put in an 80 minute shift, unlike big Josh at times.

No new signings for Glasgow yet for next season, just steadily signing up all the OOC contract players who are currently with us, which is probably decent business, all of them so far have been decent signings.

WC year is usually the year we end up with an expanded squad to cover the time the International players are going to be away. You would hope we have still got a few more to come and hopefully some new faces as well.

BigGee wrote:Dempsey has been some signing for Glasgow, as good if not better than Josh Strauss, he can certainly put in an 80 minute shift, unlike big Josh at times.

Strauss' body just clearly gave up on him towards the end. Dempsey is still a relative youngfeller and more importantly seems to be a better link man and footballer than the Beard Who Must Be Feared.

Let's not forget that Dempsey got 14 full Wallabies caps. I still think it's amazing he can play for us at all.

Are there any decent Welsh players who may be looking for a new club next season given the major cuts to salaries there?

Not Dan Biggar!!! Is my immediate response.

jimbopip wrote:Not Dan Biggar!!! Is my immediate response.

He's playing down in the South of France under no threat from the current Welsh club malaise.

Welsh players to bring up to Scotland? There are the star back three types like Josh Adams on big money that may want away but can't see him wanting to uproot to Scotland and we really need to be developing wings in Scotland. Would probably rule out most of the recent caps as being a priority for the WRU and costing us too much to consider bringing in.

Priestland apparently will be leaving Cardiff and would be an interesting option for Edinburgh, particularly with Kinghorn and maybe Healy involved in our RWC bid. Would be a good mentor for Kinghorn and Healy whilst not requiring a huge amount of minutes. The issue is he has only moved as far as Bath in the past and he may not fancy going as far as Edinburgh.

Mind you, Alun Wyn Jones would be a good long term investment: he must have another decade or so in him.

Surely the SRU will be combing through the lists of uncapped players under 25 to see if there any SQ ones with potential?

https://www.theoffsideline.com/steve-diamond-edinburgh/


Steve Diamond is definitely an interesting guy to listen to.

Does he have a place in Edinburgh's future?

BigGee wrote:https://www.theoffsideline.com/steve-diamond-edinburgh/


Steve Diamond is definitely an interesting guy to listen to.

Does he have a place in Edinburgh's future?

That is a fantastic interview.

Big Steve wrote:“I think what we need is just a little bit more game understanding, if I’m perfectly honest. We need to know how to win games, and how to throttle teams when we get into position. A classic example was last week against Connacht when they went down to 13 men. We had our tails up in the second half, there were seven points in it, and we conceded five points, four penalties and a yellow card in that same period.

“You don’t have to be a statistician to realise we should be scoring 15 points in that period. We couldn’t do it, we bottled it, and I think that’s what I can assist Mike in, that game management.

Warriors team
Dell-Matthews-Sordoni
Gray- Cummings
Darge-Dempsey-Big Shona
Hornito
Miotti
Wee Shona-Shug
Forbes - Smith- Seaman
Should be far too strong for the Drags.

As we thought, the rest of the international boys Fagerson x 2 and Price get the week off to recover and the restees last weekend come back.

Good to see Big Richie fit again.

Looks a good team with a strong bench!

Hazel Sapling wrote:Welsh players to bring up to Scotland? There are the star back three types like Josh Adams on big money that may want away but can't see him wanting to uproot to Scotland and we really need to be developing wings in Scotland. Would probably rule out most of the recent caps as being a priority for the WRU and costing us too much to consider bringing in.

Priestland apparently will be leaving Cardiff and would be an interesting option for Edinburgh, particularly with Kinghorn and maybe Healy involved in our RWC bid. Would be a good mentor for Kinghorn and Healy whilst not requiring a huge amount of minutes. The issue is he has only moved as far as Bath in the past and he may not fancy going as far as Edinburgh.

I wouldn’t say no to Priestland but as you say perhaps he’s fairly settled down there. A while back now Edinburgh signed Jason Tovey who did a great job.

Scrum half is a problem position for Edinburgh so a welsh scrummy would certainly not be a bad option, just depending on who would be looking to move on or gain some experience outside of Wales. Still gutted Finlay Christie got capped by the all blacks.

6-2 split for Glasgow. Smith really is getting that pack well rotated and involved each week.

George Carlin wrote:

BigGee wrote:https://www.theoffsideline.com/steve-diamond-edinburgh/


Steve Diamond is definitely an interesting guy to listen to.

Does he have a place in Edinburgh's future?

That is a fantastic interview.

Big Steve wrote:“I think what we need is just a little bit more game understanding, if I’m perfectly honest. We need to know how to win games, and how to throttle teams when we get into position. A classic example was last week against Connacht when they went down to 13 men. We had our tails up in the second half, there were seven points in it, and we conceded five points, four penalties and a yellow card in that same period.

“You don’t have to be a statistician to realise we should be scoring 15 points in that period. We couldn’t do it, we bottled it, and I think that’s what I can assist Mike in, that game management.

Just read it, it's very interesting as you say.

I do find the whole situation at Edinburgh strange.  Great squad, brilliant training facilities, brand new appropriately sized stadium, coach who performed really well last year....and yet the same coach has quit halfway through the season and their form has fallen off a cliff.  Diamond seems to have essentially persuaded the Edinburgh suits that he should be involved, and now is simultaneously writing a report card on the performance of the rugby management and assisting that same management in the running of the team....does it not strike anybody else as pretty weird setup?

Interesting article in the telegraph today, which I mamaged to read despite the paywall.

It suggests the SRU are actively trying to bring English based players back to the Scottish clubs, in order to better mabage their game time.

Discussions are ongoing with Sale about Ashman and they do seem prepared to psy a release to get him out of his contract two years early.

They are also monitoring the situation with Ben White at LI very carefully. He has a year to run on his but LI as we know seem to be in some financial difficulty at the moment.

It seens a big of a change in strategy from before but no doubt helped by the financial presdure English clubs are niw facing and the Scottish teams can be much more competitive for contracts now.

It would definitely help some of these players if they were not getting flogged week in week out on the premiership, especially around international times.

Who else might they be interested in bringing back?

Thankfully Cam Henderson has just signed a new contract so the SRU weren't quick enough on that one.

Chris Harris or Hastings at Glaws? There's Kyle Rowe at LI as well though he's been injured a while.

Gray at Chiefs, maybe. They are losing so many they might not be keen to lose another.

I would not have said no to Cam Henderson coming back to Glasgow but maybe second row is not our most pressing issues, we have a couple of good youngsters Samuel and Williamson coming through.

Hastings may want to come back though, edpecially as he may be slipping down the Scotland pecking order. Harris is probably to old and will fall out of the Scotland squad post WC.

Johnny Gray is Glasgow through and through and there have been many rumours that he is homesick at Exeter. Glasgow have not really announced any new big signings this year, so let's see.

Edinburgh game looks a bit of a slug fest - anyone watching?

It is a slugfest on a sh#tty horrible night in Leicester

Leicester have taken their chances and managed the game. Edinburgh have not.

They have not played badly but it is the story of their season unfortunately

Maybe if Steve Diamond does stay at Edinburgh, he might bring Gus Warr up from Sale.

God knows Edinburgh need some half backs

Ben White to Edinburgh should be our focus - we need an international class 9.

Would be good for Ben Healy to form a partnership with him for Scotland.

I'm thinking that we should rename the Library/Bookcase house of cards as The Wasteland in part in memory of T S Elliot and partly as a nod to Britain's economic prospects post Truss/Johnson/Brexit.
But mainly because the Luvvies' seasons all fizzle out, as Elliot would say, "so it ends, not with a bang but with a whimper."

Will the Rugby club thump the Drags tonight? Possibly. Will we give it everything and go down fighting for every blade of, artificial, grass? Most certainly.

Compare and contrast. As they say.

An early sting from Hornito running his regular support line to Kyle Steyn's break

7-0 Glasgow

Drags have their moments but can't sustain their attacks

Glasgow pressure leads to a 5m lineout and Mathews scores

2 opportunities, 2 tries

14-0 Glasgow

Ref now having a look at it!

Try stands though

Dragons come straight back and score in the corner, they are dangerous when they move the ball and don't drop it

14-7 Glasgow

Johnny Mathews runs one in from 30m from a pass from an Alan Dell break, he out runs the Drags SH!

Who says the front row are fat boys!

Horne misses the conversion

19-7 Glasgow

And another Johnny Mathews hatrick from another 5m lineout

Glasgow look well in control now

26-7 Glasgow

BigGee wrote:Maybe if Steve Diamond does stay at Edinburgh, he might bring Gus Warr up from Sale.

God knows Edinburgh need some half backs

Is Gus Warr SQ? Wiki suggests he was born in Manchester and went to a couple of boarding schools one of which was in Scotland.

Drags not giving up though

A great wide pass to Dyer and he is over in the corner

26-12 Glasgow

formerly known as Sam wrote:

BigGee wrote:Maybe if Steve Diamond does stay at Edinburgh, he might bring Gus Warr up from Sale.

God knows Edinburgh need some half backs

Is Gus Warr SQ? Wiki suggests he was born in Manchester and went to a couple of boarding schools one of which was in Scotland.

He is SQ

He went up to School in Scotland to try and push on his Scotland ambitions. His brother played up in Scotland as well. I assume he has Scottish parentage or grandparentage.

Aki Sueli might not be having a happy return to Scotstoun, that was a headshot to Horne.

This is going to be a RC

That is not good for the Drags

And another JM try from the resulting penalty 5M lineout

4 tries for JM on the half hour

33-12 Glasgow

Ryan Wilson back on the pitch for Vailanu!

Crazy game this, not really knock out rugby

Drags come back and score again on the point of HT

33-19 Glasgow

Drahs can't do anything about the Glasgow 5m lineouts

JM scores again!

That's 5 now

40-19 Glasgow

and Drags score one back from 5m

Despite the high score, it's not actually that exciting a game, way to predictable

40-26 Glasgow

All very clinical but not very exciting

Sub Turner for Mathews and another push over try

47-26 Glasgow

That's more like it, coast to coast from the kick off

Great from Dempsey and Smith, Forbes scores

54-26 Glasgow