Rest of the World

First topic message reminder :

Blimey...just flicked back to see Australia making a meal of chasing 34 to win. Warner another fail (is that a strong hint that his time is all but done ?)

But also Smith Khawaja and Head gone...29/4 and extras has made 14 of them !

Only need five more so no problem...but SA might wonder what might have been if they'd been able to produce a bit more resistance in that awful second innings.

Supports kingraf's pitch assessment , I guess

Bangladesh 362/5 at stumps on day one. Afghanistan managing a grand total of 79 overs in 6 and a half hours, despite spinners bowling 49 of those overs.

I was reading Geoffrey Boycott's 'Being Geoffrey Boycott' book recently - very good read, heartily recommend, similar to the Damned Utd if you've ever read that - and he recalled South Africa once being able to bowl 87 overs in four hours in a test match, as well as the expectation in the 60s that 20 overs would be bowled in an hour, as opposed to the modern expectation of 15 overs (although you're lucky to get 14 overs in an hour!).

So what's going on with over rates in tests? Why is everything so slow compared to the good old days? Especially as modern county cricket seemingly has no problem with over rates.

Reviews obviously slow the game down, but they're certainly not responsible for the full extent of over shortages that we're seeing today. Drinks breaks seem to take longer these days. It might be my incorrect childhood recollection, but I seem to remember in the days of Channel 4 tests that a drinks break just meant two adverts rather than one, nowadays it's a proper event that takes a few minutes to break up.

And what can be done about it?

Re over rates, I posted my views about it being caused by batters as much as bowlers in the WTC final thread. Another recent big influences is DRS.

Comparison to previous eras doesn't really work though IMO due to two main points other than the above. Firstly, run rates going up so much inevitably causes slower play for obvious reasons. As does the dot ball percentage being so drastically reduced by players rotating the strike so much more since the Aussies started pushing running between wickets in the nineties. Secondly, bowling has generally got better. That's not to mean more talented players per se. But due to professionalism bowlers perform at a higher standard on average. The days of having Keith Miller, for me one of the most naturally talented and fascinating cricketers ever, coming in off a few paces and going whang when he didn't feel like running in fully are done. Likewise Michael Holding bowling off a half run up, or less at times, to bowl swing when the pitch was flat. Average speeds of seamers will be quicker now than ever before and part of the reason for that is longer runups on average.

This final thought I haven't checked stats on but just something that came to mind. Part time bowlers used to be much bigger in the game. Particularly spinners but also seamers. I'd presume that would have sped things up as generally they trundled in from a few paces and most batters didn't look to milk them as much let alone target them. One of the early things that analyst saw through stats was that generally part timers didn't work well. Either they could only bowl successfully to certain matchups - hence Joe Root bowling to lefties a lot. Or just couldn't actually bowl at all!

As is discussed to death around the English structure the county system is a bit of a throwback to some of the above. Medium to medium-fast seamers on green tops who therefore have shorter runups can thrive. Someone such as Chris Rushworth is a brilliant seamer he flies through overs for that reason. Realistically, I think we'd agree he wouldn't have likely made the jump though. Likewise when checking scorecards I often notice that when innings go deeper you tend to see 6-7 bowlers used, hence the part timers getting a twirl. From a quick scan of this rounds div 1 scorecards there's Rob Yates, George Bell, Matt Montgomery and Joe Denly in the part time spin bracket. Then George Balderson (talented player if the batting kicks on) and Steven Mullaney in the medium pacer bracket. Plus of course no DRS.

I'm honestly not sure about drinks breaks. My memory of them as a kid was dashing outside to try to imitate a bowlers action in the back garden whilst peeking through the window to see when ads ended! All that practice and I never did end up being a combination of Shane Warne and Curtly Ambrose. It's a cruel world. Hotter summers in general might mean more drinks are needed in some countries though somewhat terrifyingly. We've seen a few players struggling with the heat in Australia for instance. Meanwhile a lot of people in SA cricket believe the conditions have got so much hotter that some pitches have started becoming more subcontinent-esque.

Fixing it is difficult when it's both batters and bowlers as discussed on the WTC thread as that makes sanctions much more difficult. Generally people say dock runs from the bowling side but I think it misses the point of it being both sides. Meanwhile broadcasters probably quite like the breaks and games constantly using the extra 30 minutes before 11am or extra hour after 6pm as I'd guess they get more ads through it. Likewise for the grounds it keeps punters in the ground buying £8 pints for longer. So not an easy fix, frustratingly.

As for the Bangladesh-Afghanistan Test this is feels like a sad legacy of Test cricket outside the big three being punted to the fringes. When that cartel started dictating schedules many of the most knowledgeable pundits in the game such as Haigh, Bogle, Kimber, etc expressed a fear that if they treated series outside of the big three playing each other as nothing but warmups for their main act then eventually those smaller nations would have no choice financially but to treat Tests that way. Both sides missing numerous most talented players, will understandably have more of a focus on the CWC later in the year.

Amazing scenes as Afghanistan chase down 662 to beat Bangladesh in a test. Wow.

Quite ordinary scenes as Afghanistan are bowled out for 115 in pursuit of 662, in what must have been a depressingly one-sided test. Bangladesh's winning margin of 546 runs is the 3rd largest in test history by runs, largest since the war, and largest in the sub-continent.

The World Cup Qualifier begins tomorrow, with Zimbabwe v Nepal and the West Indies v the USA.

Halfway stage in the opening games of the Qualifiers.

Nepal 290/8 against Zimbabwe. Threatened a much bigger score, but Zimbabwe's death bowling was superb.

And the West Indies bowled out for 297 against the USA, despite the USA missing their best bowler and dropping a fair few chances. Four half-centurions for the West Indies, which rescued them from difficult situations, but none pushing on to big scores.

Zimbabwe cruised the chase, so an expected win to start off their campaign. 291/2 in 44.1 overs, Ervine and Williams both getting tons. Batting-friendly wickets are expected, so the 290 by Nepal wasn't likely to be enough.

And the West Indies were pretty comfortable in their defence of 297. They won by 39 runs, but despite the relative closeness of the score, the USA never really threatened to chase it down, despite a century from Gajanand Singh. West Indies might be concerned that they couldn't bowl the USA out, and that the USA bowling had them in trouble at times, with tougher tests to come.

Sri Lanka v UAE and Ireland v Oman, in Group B, for tomorrow.

Sri Lanka in control against the UAE, after amassing 355/6 batting first, but looks as though Ireland are heading for a surprise defeat to Oman, which would be a sizable blow to their World Cup ambitions.

Ireland made 281/7, mainly thanks to Dockrell and Tector, but Oman are cruising at 140/2 after 22.4 overs.

And Ireland did lose. Oman chasing down the target of 282 with 11 balls and 5 wickets to spare. Did it pretty comfortably, and it's the first time Oman have beaten a test nation in an ODI game, marking their rise in the sport.

It's a big blow to Ireland's chances of making the Super Six stage. They will have to win at least two of their final three games, which are against Scotland, Sri Lanka and the UAE, and even two wins may not be enough. Plus, if Ireland do qualify alongside Oman for the Super Six stage, then the points carry over, which would put Ireland at a disadvantage.

Bit concerning to see Ireland's captain saying that he thought 281 was a good score. Looks as though a team would need a bit more than 281 for a good score.

That was the first upset, but no such upset in the other game. Sri Lanka thrashed the UAE by 175 runs, and that's an early statement from the 1996 champions. All of the top five making scores, and Hasaranga taking 6/24.

Tomorrow's games are: Zimbabwe v the Netherlands, a game which probably has significance for the later Super Six stage; and the USA v Nepal. Both the USA and Nepal lost their opener, so whoever falls short in this one is pretty much out of contention.

That Oman win has put cat among pigeons , eh ? Ireland not dead yet but certainly a major blow - and surely highly unexpected.

Confess I just can't concentrate on anything but the Test these last few days but will be interested to look into this qualifying competition once Edgbaston is done with.

USA bowled out for 207, despite Jahangir making a 79-ball ton. Bit of a recovery from 18/4, but it really shouldn't trouble Nepal.

Netherlands made 315/6 against Zimbabwe, with no one getting a ton. The Dutch pulled back after a very strong start, looked as though they were going to make 340+. Probably right in the balance, this one, and a very important game with both likely to make the Super Six stage.

Nepal strolled to victory. Big disappointment for the USA who ruffled a few West Indies feathers, but couldn't lay a glove on Nepal.

Zimbabwe trounced the Netherlands, making the chase of 316 look a picnic - they won by six wickets with 9.1 overs to spare. Williams in superb form again with 91 from 58, and Raza with 102 off 54. Raza hit the winning runs with a six that also sealed his century, so quite a way to win! Zimbabwe's batting making a powerful statement early on; from what I saw during the Edgbaston rain delay, the Dutch fielding was abysmal as they put down three catches, one of them a sitter.

Scotland start their campaign tomorrow against Ireland. It'll be Scotland's 37th game of the marathon to qualify for India! Must-win for Ireland after their initial loss. And Oman will be looking to back up their win over Ireland with a positive display against the UAE.

Ireland managing 286/8 v Scotland, after being 70/5, thanks to 120 from Campher and 69 from Dockrell. A gettable chase for Scotland, but a lot more than they would have anticipated.

Oman have restricted the UAE to 227/8, so surely they're on their way to a second straight win.

Going to the wire in the Ireland Scotland game. Scotland 7 wickets down but Watt and leask are going for it. just 83 0ff 57 required. Ireland need another breakthrough.

Yep, starting to get a little tight between Ireland/Scotland. At 152/7 it looked all over, but 219/7 now as Watt and Leask get Scotland closer. Might be some Irish nerves, but they just need one wicket.

I think this one is lost again for Ireland.

Ireland got the wicket, but Little followed up with an absolute shocker of an over. Leask taking two sixes and two fours off Little, who kept missing his length, to take it to the wire again.

Down to 22 off 18, with just two wickets remaining. Leask on 72 off 50.

Leask has been absolutely savage. He really has dragged Scotland back in this. To th wire it goes, just 8 needed off the last over and Leask has the strike.

Ireland also being punished for their slow over rate - only four outside the circle for this last over.

And a misfield by Tector off the first ball of the 50th turns a risky two into four. Surely the end now? But no, Sharif, the no.10, top-edges one to a fielder. The number 11 has to come to the crease, with the strike, with 3 needed off 3.

More thrilling drama in this strange sport.

Scotland win on the last ball. Gutted as an Irishman but what an innings by Leask, that was brilliant under such pressure

One dot, then Scotland scamper a bye. Gives Leask the chance to win it, 2 needed off 1...and an inside-edge wins it for Scotland!

Thrilling, thrilling sport. One of the best ODIs. Ireland on the ropes at 70/5, with McMullen taking 5/34 (he was on a hat-trick at one point) as he tore through their top order (but only got 7 overs?), but reached 286 because of Campher's 120 and Dockrell's 69.

Scotland never realistically in the chase, regularly losing wickets, and were 152/7 with just 16 overs remaining. Then Mark Watt's 47 off 43 and, even better, Leask's match-winning 89 off 61, including the battering he gave to Little, getting Scotland the win. A marvellous comeback to start Scotland's effort in Zimbabwe.

Puts Ireland all but out as they've lost two from two, with just games against UAE and Sri Lanka to come.

Oman won the other game. They chased down the 228 pretty comfortably, despite a slight wobble in the middle. So it's two from two for Oman, and, like Ireland, zero from two for the UAE.

Back to Group A tomorrow. Nepal v the West Indies and the Dutch v the USA. They should be two rather more low-key games.

Blimey ! I wish I'd watched that !

Sad for Ireland , who are surely stuffed now ; but what a win for Scotland...Can they now make the qualifiers I wonder ?

With the football team top of group A it's been a good week for the Tartan brigade - though unfortunately Andy Murray couldn't keep his fine grass run going Where is Craig at times like this ?

Yeah, Ireland are fully out of this now. Very sad for us Irish but there is a good team there that will get better in the next few years.

eirebilly_01 wrote:Yeah, Ireland are fully out of this now. Very sad for us Irish but there is a good team there that will get better in the next few years.

Yes you have some exciting young players in there , eirebilly. Hopefully will be bringing a couple more finds in and keep improving.

It is a pity that Irish players can't get the same access to the English county game now. But maybe with all this franchise stuff available that isn't such an issue - at least for the white ball business ?

Ireland can still make it through, it's just unlikely. They either need to beat Sri Lanka and the UAE, a tough ask; or just beat the UAE and hope Scotland lose all their remaining games, then try to squeeze through on NRR.

But, yes, easy to sense the damage has already been done.

West Indies have put up 339 batting first against Nepal. Again, the West Indies were in a dollop of early trouble at 55/3, then centuries from Hope and Pooran in a monster partnership put their side in command. That's Hope's 15th ODI century.

USA restricted to just 211 in their game against the Netherlands. A tough battle for them all innings, only Jahangir's contribution of 71, backing up his century in the previous game, getting them to a respectable total.

Nepal not getting anywhere near their target, but the Netherlands/USA game is getting interesting with the Dutch floundering somewhat at 83/4 in pursuit of 212. Might be another upset in the offing...

No, Netherlands win pretty comfortably, by five wickets in the end. Half-centuries from Nidamanuru and Edwards seeing them to victory.  USA hampered by losing their star bowler, Ali Khan, to illness.

With the West Indies big win over Nepal, they and Zimbabwe are cruising to the Super Six stage. Netherlands and Nepal's game on Saturday will effectively be a straight knock-out to decide the remaining place in Group A.

Tomorrow sees Scotland play the UAE. If Scotland win their place in the Super Six is all but assured, while it's a must win for the UAE after starting off with two defeats.

The other game is Oman v Sri Lanka. Oman have made a terrific start, winning two from two, but this will be the sternest test yet, against a Sri Lanka side that put up 355 v the UAE. Both teams are very likely to be in the Super Six, so it's a crucial game for both sides as the points will transfer over.

Another impressive recovery from Scotland, batting first this time. In trouble at 25/3 and 172/7, a 127 from captain Berrington (his ODI best score), aided with support from Leask and Watt, has carried Scotland to 282/8. On a pitch doing a bit for the seamers, it's a tough ask for the UAE, who haven't got near 250 in this competition so far.

Oman got completely trounced by Sri Lanka. Oman bowled out for 98, Hasaranga with 5/13 to follow his 6/24 versus the UAE, and Sri Lanka chased it down in 15 overs with zero wickets lost.

Also, about the World Cup itself, Pakistan's involvement is still unclear. The Pakistani Foreign Office are 'evaluating' Pakistan's participation in the tournament. As such, the fixtures for the competition still haven't been publicly released, and Pakistan have apparently complained about the venue of two of their fixtures in the groups, but their request for an alteration was denied by the ICC.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/pakistan-s-foreign-office-is-evaluating-the-team-s-involvement-in-odi-world-cup-1383159

Job done for Scotland, they bowled the UAE out for 171. Means the UAE are definitely out of contention, with three losses from three, but they can hang around for the 7th placed playoff or whatever it is. Scotland are two from two and it seems near-certain that the three qualifiers from this group will be Oman, Sri Lanka and Scotland. The only way Ireland can gatecrash it is by beating Sri Lanka and the UAE, while hoping NRR falls in their favour.

Back to Group A tomorrow. Netherlands v Nepal is pretty much a straight knock-out game, where the winners go through to the Super Six stage. The other game is Zimbabwe v the West Indies - a huge game because the winner will take the two points through into the Super Six stage. If Zimbabwe win, and on current form they're no worse than 50/50, plus they have home advantage, we can start considering a World Cup without the West Indies...

India's Test squad: Rohit Sharma (capt), Shubman Gill, Virat Kohli, Ajinkya Rahane (vc), Ruturaj Gaikwad, Yashasvi Jaiswal, KS Bharat (wk), R Ashwin, Ravindra Jadeja, Axar Patel, Shardul Thakur, Mohammed Siraj, Mukesh Kumar, Jaydev Unadkat, Ishan Kishan (wk), Navdeep Saini

Indian squad declared for WI.
Same Captain, Same Coach and same WK.....is a recipe for an impending loss to WI
while Captain is workable with if there was an aggressive coach like Ganguly......Bharat is a liability.

Bringing Gaikwad ahead of Eswaran and Mayank & Jaiswal ahead of Sarfaraz Khan makes a mockery of consistent domestic performances.

The end for Pujara then?

India would have to go some to lose to the West Indies, although the West Indies have only lost one of their previous five home test series.

Duty281 wrote:The end for Pujara then?

India would have to go some to lose to the West Indies, although the West Indies have only lost one of their previous five home test series.

End of Pujara as much as we thought Rahane had ended and he returned in WTC final and now as VC
Loss in WI is deemed low point for a tops side and If I recall right was the point when Root quit

A patched up win in WI could be the worse thing thing for Indian cricket. A defeat though heart breaking will lead to cleaning up of an imbecile coach and dead wood

A lot of labour from Zimbabwe to reach 268ao. Plenty of batsmen getting starts, with none pushing on to the big score required. Raza was dropped three times before finally being caught on 68, and Burl got a shocker of an LBW on 50 with the ball pitching miles outside leg. Can only think the umpire got the off-side and leg-side confused.

268 probably won't be enough, but it gives them something to bowl at.

Nepal bowled out for 167 against the Dutch, so that one looks over.

Zimbabwe have kept chipping away, and two quick wickets have taken the West Indies from 175/4 to 180/6.

Atmosphere is superb. Can Zimbabwe pull off a famous win?

Holder looked to be guiding the West Indies to safety, then he snicked one behind, swiftly followed by Keemo Paul playing one of the worst shots I've ever seen.

222/8. A great fightback from Zimbabwe.

Chase chops on and surely that's it! The West Indies still 45 away.

Thanks for these updates, Duty. Brilliant work! Much appreciated.
I see another wicket has fallen. 224/9

Zimbabwe win! Amazing. They looked about 30 runs light, but kept chipping away at the West Indies with their bowler rotation (8 bowlers used!).

The Netherlands win has confirmed the three qualifiers in this group, so Zimbabwe will start the Super Six stage with 4 points, ahead of the West Indies on 2 (presuming the West Indies beat the Netherlands). Leaves an uphill task for the West Indies just to make the World Cup.

Tomorrow sees Ireland against Sri Lanka. Ireland simply must win, or they're out. Sri Lanka have started with strong form, destroying both opponents so far. The other game is Oman against Scotland - both teams are pretty much assured of qualification to the Super Six, so this game is a battle for points in that Super Six. Whoever loses is going to have little chance of finishing in the top two in the Super Six.

Pal Joey wrote:Thanks for these updates, Duty. Brilliant work! Much appreciated.
I see another wicket has fallen. 224/9

+

Indeed... Your reports very welcome , Duty as I just can't keep up with all these games in between women's cricket and athletics - and sleep , of course

Seems the super six games could be very interesting ? The "traditional" teams no guarantee to get through to WC ?

Sri Lanka 262/4 with 8 left. Wonder how Ireland are looking back on that Test now...

alfie wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:Thanks for these updates, Duty. Brilliant work! Much appreciated.
I see another wicket has fallen. 224/9

+

Indeed... Your reports very welcome , Duty as I just can't keep up with all these games in between women's cricket and athletics - and sleep , of course

Seems the super six games could be very interesting ? The "traditional" teams no guarantee to get through to WC ?

In the West Indies case, more a situation of unlikely to get through. They'll need to win every one of their remaining games (Netherlands, Oman, Scotland and Sri Lanka), and even if they do that they'll only be on 8 points, which is likely to tie them for second place with Zimbabwe, leaving it down to NRR. But that's assuming the West Indies beat Sri Lanka, which is unlikely on current evidence.

But the Sri Lankans look pretty likely to get through. They've been a class above so far and have posted 300+ against a sorry Ireland, although the Irish may have prevented them from reaching 350 which looked probable at one stage.

Scotland started out very sluggishly v Oman, but a 136 from McMullen and 60 from captain Berrington has pushed them up to 320, which should be more than enough.

Ireland lose by 133 runs. Went hard at the required rate throughout, but regularly lost wickets, and Hasaranga has picked up his third consecutive five-wicket haul in the competition.

Losing to Oman, Scotland and Sri Lanka puts Ireland out at the first stage of the qualifier. A big surprise, as they only narrowly missed out on qualification through the Super League, and it means they will miss a second consecutive 50-over World Cup. 2027, with 14 teams, might present a better chance.

Scotland are on the verge of beating Oman. Oman went at an absolute crawl and never got close.

With one round of fixtures to go in the groups, it means the Super Six teams are confirmed - Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka, Scotland, Oman, West Indies and the Netherlands.

Presuming the final round of fixtures goes as expected - with Sri Lanka beating Scotland and the West Indies beating the Netherlands - the starting composition of the Super Six will be as follows:

Sri Lanka - 4 points; Zimbabwe - 4 points; West Indies - 2 points; Scotland - 2 points; Netherlands - 0 points; Oman - 0 points

Sri Lanka have already got one and a half feet in India. Zimbabwe will be hard to stop.  The West Indies need a perfect run. Or maybe Scotland will blow everything open by beating Sri Lanka on Tuesday?

Tomorrow sees Zimbabwe play the USA, a complete dead rubber, although I imagine Zimbabwe will want to keep their winning momentum going. And the Netherlands play the West Indies. The Caribbean side need their perfect run to begin here. I do make the West Indies favourites, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the Dutch turn them over, especially if they win the toss and bowl first (the games start early and every team that has won the toss has elected to field first).

Hasaranga is just that bit too good in this tournament. You sometimes used to see it with pace bowlers in the associate game 10 years ago before we saw the big improvements. Sometimes a guy bowling close to 10mph quicker than most other seamers would turn up and be swinging the ball, it was lights out. Hasaranga spinning the ball both ways and at a decent pace for a spinner has just been too good.

Scotland wrap up a win against Oman too. It's been a really good tournament for them so far amongst some instability. Coetzer's retirement wasn't unexpected of course but Calum MacLeod's was, whilst Munsey is still struggling with a broken finger. In Coetzer and MacLeod they lost probably their best two batters ever. In Munsey their most dangerous batter. Then Davey and Wheal to County duty. To have a strong tournament in those circumstances has been impressive.

I just wish they'd pick Hamza Tahir and Mark Watt in the same team! It seems they don't because they are both SLA but they are completely different bowlers. Watt is fairly unique in style and has a cracking record to lefties unlike so many SLA spinners. I'd say both are certainly in their best 5 bowlers without Wheal and Davey available.

Yeah, get the sense that Sri Lanka as a whole are a bit too good for this qualifier. They've thrashed every team so far.

Things don't sound good for Ireland. Apparently they're operating on a $5 million ICC loan, and missing out on the World Cup again has meant missing out on some much needed cash, as well as perhaps leading to a downturn in interest in the sport in Ireland. They need to make sure they qualify for the 2024 T20 World Cup; this, at least, should be fairly simple.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/world-cup-qualifier-elimination-pushes-irish-cricket-further-into-the-fringes-1384096

Duty281 wrote:Ireland out at the first stage of the qualifier. A big surprise, as they only narrowly missed out on qualification through the Super League, and it means they will miss a second consecutive 50-over World Cup. 2027, with 14 teams, might present a better chance.

Perhaps, but they'll presumably be competing with the same sides they are here, many of which seem to be on a bit of an upswing.

Today I learned that Zimbabwe have a player called Joylord Gumbie, who immediately makes my top 5 favourite players of all time.

408 for Zimbabwe against a hopeless USA; and 374 for the West Indies against the Dutch. Two very one-sided games, it seems.

I would not write the Dutch off just yet, its a batters paradise out there and the Dutch do have some quality...

Max O'Dowd doing what Max O'Dowd does in getting a run a ball 30odd before playing a silly shot to get out...

USA lose by 304 runs. Second biggest defeat in ODI history by runs.

Netherlands did make a bright start, but they're going to fall well short.

Again, I would not write the Dutch off just yet.