England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes

First topic message reminder :

June 1st-June 4th: One Test v Ireland (four days)
June 16th-July 31st: Five Tests v Australia
August 30th-September 5th: Four T20s v New Zealand
September 8th-September 15th: Four ODIs v New Zealand
September 20th-September 26th: Three ODIs v Ireland

England try to wrest the Ashes back from Australia, in a series which could be the greatest since 2005. Australia have currently held the urn for just over five years, which is the longest spell of urn-holding since the 1989-2005 period.

Ireland also visit for a test before that, and then there's some limited-overs games squashed into the last days of summer.

Maybe a little less pressure on the batsmen with the two junior bowlers in tandem now... A little surprised Leach taken out of the attack , to be honest. But I guess Potts and Tongue have to do their share of the work. Potts went close to trapping the left handed a couple of times then ; but this stand is worth 28 : and don't Ireland need them !

England trying their last review...height may be an issue here...

Yes. Only umpire's call but at least they keep the review. Didn't look a bad shout , to be fair.

No matter anyway as he's caught behind next ball ! Potts gets a well deserved wicket

142/7 as McBrine departs.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Broad bowled beautifully, really getting the ball swinging - both ways! That newly talked about "outswinger" making an appearance

I think Broad has swung a few wobble seam deliveries today as well. It's impossible to know from such a small sample size whether that's intentional or not. Either way that's a brilliant skill.

A few analysts are fairly certain that Jimmy now has a wobble ball that can swing and one that he doesn't for instance. He first developed the wobble ball as a completely new delivery. Which makes it fascinating to see it almost melding into those traditional skills.

Tim Murtagh on the other hand found his wobble ball accidentally when he realised his outswinger would occasionally come out as a wobble seam if his wrist got in a slightly wrong position. From there he slowly became able to bowl the wobble seam more deliberately. Then he started being able to swing it intentionally.

The common view when it first became prominent was that bowlers couldn't control which way it was more likely to seam. Now we're getting more data and hearing more seamers, coaches, analysts, etc talk about it the growing consensus is that bowlers tend to overwhelmingly seam it one way more often than the other depending on their action. I've heard a few coaches mention that they think bowlers tend to seam the wobble ball most often in the opposite direction to their natural swing shape. So natural outswing bowlers more often nip the wobble seam in to right-handers when it does 'go'.

Here ends the latest of my unrequested, overlong posts on the wobble ball. I truly think it's the most fascinating change in seam bowling since reverse swing. The elephant in the room with reverse swing though being that the more we hear about sides that got reverse regularly the more it seems they were tampering with the ball to one degree or another. Whereas the wobble ball can work with old and new ball at a greater variety of paces.

I'll just put in my standard complaint about the over rate. Going to be 51 overs in two sessions, having had Leach bowl 12 of them. Unacceptable.

Wasn't a fan of Tongue's leg-side short barrage. I hope that tactic, whether it's Tongue or Wood, is used sparingly against the Aussies. Haven't been hugely impressed by Potts today, but at least he's got a wicket.

Tongue seems to have been tasked with delivering the short pitched barrage in these "middle" overs...he's still working hard at a good pace ; but I wonder if they're overdoing the tactic a little. Conditions are pretty good for batting and these two bats aren't looking to throw their wickets away. Might be a change of tactic after tea ?

And that is tea , at 162/7. Just 51 overs down so we are in for some overtime tonight.

Edit : ha. I see Duty got there before me on both points...

Ah well bowled Stuart Broad

Up on the Honour Board again - his first five wicket haul here for a few years ! That ball much too good for Adair ...eight down now.

Campher may want to throw the bat now ? They'll want more than 169...

Campher did indeed throw the bat...but he missed the ball ; and Leach didn't miss the stumps.

172/9 so we should see Crawley bat soon enough

And all done for 172...Potts gets his second with an inside edge that Bairstow takes nicely...

Pretty good bowling all round from England , I think. Broad the standout , 5/51 did not flatter him ; Leach three and he bowled rather well too. No joy for Tongue in this innings ; but he showed some promise - kept his pace up pretty well in repeat spells. Something to work with there.

Going to be a late finish I guess. But I think I'll stick around to see how the openers get on.

Richly deserved five for Broad.

Just under a couple of hours to bat tonight. Expect England to give it a good old lash. Or the new lash, as it is.

If Alfie did stick around he'll have seen the openers have a very easy time of it. Ireland's bowling way below the required standard, with way too many freebies served up. 100 partnership in 92 balls; both Crawley and Duckett passing 50.

king_carlos wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Broad bowled beautifully, really getting the ball swinging - both ways! That newly talked about "outswinger" making an appearance

I think Broad has swung a few wobble seam deliveries today as well. It's impossible to know from such a small sample size whether that's intentional or not. Either way that's a brilliant skill.

A few analysts are fairly certain that Jimmy now has a wobble ball that can swing and one that he doesn't for instance. He first developed the wobble ball as a completely new delivery. Which makes it fascinating to see it almost melding into those traditional skills.

Tim Murtagh on the other hand found his wobble ball accidentally when he realised his outswinger would occasionally come out as a wobble seam if his wrist got in a slightly wrong position. From there he slowly became able to bowl the wobble seam more deliberately. Then he started being able to swing it intentionally.

The common view when it first became prominent was that bowlers couldn't control which way it was more likely to seam. Now we're getting more data and hearing more seamers, coaches, analysts, etc talk about it the growing consensus is that bowlers tend to overwhelmingly seam it one way more often than the other depending on their action. I've heard a few coaches mention that they think bowlers tend to seam the wobble ball most often in the opposite direction to their natural swing shape. So natural outswing bowlers more often nip the wobble seam in to right-handers when it does 'go'.

Here ends the latest of my unrequested, overlong posts on the wobble ball. I truly think it's the most fascinating change in seam bowling since reverse swing. The elephant in the room with reverse swing though being that the more we hear about sides that got reverse regularly the more it seems they were tampering with the ball to one degree or another. Whereas the wobble ball can work with old and new ball at a greater variety of paces.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/cricket/65782929

The man himself talking about it. From that it seems he's switching between the two so if any wobble seams did indeed swing I'd guess it's more the Murtagh mould of an outswinger coming out a tiny bit wrong, the seam wobbling. A useful accident if so.

Pretty much a perfect day for England, a far cry from the 2019 scare - should be a day to cash in for the bats tomorrow, and those punters who got day 2 tickets must be pretty excited!

Duckett looked good again - wild that this is his first test innings in England!

Don't underestimate his opening partner, who seems to have perfected the Chinese cut over the winter. Set a field for that Aussies!

Didn't stay to the end but watched the rest on replay :not sure what to take from the batting as Ireland bowling was pretty mediocre I'm afraid.

Crawley innings was fairly typical except instead of outside edges it was inside nibbles running down fine...mixed of course with some lovely strokes. So no big hundred ; but honestly what difference would that , against this bowling , have made to peoples' judgement of him ? 56 at a fast rate is probably about what they want from him - but whether he can do that against Australia is another question !

Pleased to see Duckett showing he can play fluently in England as well as Pakistan - but of course the same qualification applies. We won't really know until the Ashes starts so might as well just enjoy it for what it is...entertaining batting.

Presume they will continue at speed today with a view to getting a big lead fast and aiming to ensure one day off...not sure how many they'll want for a lead but maybe Broad would appreciate a full day's rest before bowling again ? If no bad weather around a Saturday finish seems about right...

Yes, it was a fairly typical innings from Crawley. Some nice pressure-free runs to pad his batting average - which has now gone higher than Woakes' batting average, three cheers for Zak! - and his place now secure for the Aussies.

Duckett exhibited some really nice timing in his innings. Ireland's bowling was woeful, though, so a bit like Bangladesh 2005, I'm not really sure what England have learnt.

Duckett has been quickly into gear this morning.

Lot of nice drives , not missing out on anything loose. Up to 99 already...

Pope a bit less fluent so far but that's 57 runs in ten overs today. And the hundred stand

And a hundred for Duckett

A very good Lords debut , eh ?

Fifty for Pope too. Nice bright stuff ...but it is all just a little too one sided for my taste. Can't complain though : sunshine , England on top , runs flowing... Probably won't be quite so comfortable to watch in a couple of weeks time ...

Surprised Ireland haven't turned to spin yet. This medium pace buffet is just a bit too friendly.

VTR wrote:Don't underestimate his opening partner, who seems to have perfected the Chinese cut over the winter. Set a field for that Aussies!

Buzzing to see Davey Warner's face as Crawley inside edges one for four to get to 50. Will be superb.

Alfie - bizarre they haven't brought on the spinner yet!

Spin after drinks , anyway. McBrine can't do any worse than the seamers. England still rolling along at six plus per over...and without really playing outrageous shots.

Whatever we may think about the quality of the opposition , I guess these innings won't hurt the confidence of the England top three ahead of the more difficult assignment ahead.

250 up

Today is the day I can finally forget the name of Gilbert Jessop. Don’t let us down Brook/Stokes/YJB.

Ireland try their luck with a rather "hopeful" review...only succeed in losing a referall : but I guess it celebrates having beaten the bat for a change

Pope on 76 and might be eyeing off a spot on that Honour Board too...

JDizzle wrote:Today is the day I can finally forget the name of Gilbert Jessop. Don’t let us down Brook/Stokes/YJB.

Might be a challenge which would appeal to The Nighthawk ? If he gets a chance to bat...

McBrine started well...but Duckett appears to have his number now. Three hundred up at right on six per over...

Duckett closing on 150 : has been quite an innings , whatever the limitations of the bowling

150 it is for Ben

Took him a long time to actually break into the team ; but he might be forgiven for thinking be that this Test Cricket isn't as hard as its cracked up to be ...

Lunch ? No , one more over to come. Credit to Ireland , they've bowled 29 in two hours which is racing in modern terms !

173 in the session ...long live Bazball

Pope will lunch on 97 but might not be all that nervous. Duckett a super 161 . Good morning's batting , eh ?

This is a terrible advert for the game. Huge mismatch.

Lot of talk about when England should declare, but why not push for a thousand?

Duckett and Pope in real danger of batting Crawley back on to the hot seat here.

Pope will be delighted to have posted a hundred at HQ. Probably not the hardest one he's made but he won't mind. Actually very close to being lbw on 99 but otherwise had looked totally secure throughout. Mind fancy a double now...while surely Duckett will have that milestone fairly shortly ?

Lead of 181 and bags of time left today...this could get a bit silly.

No double for Duckett ! Out of the blue - he's bowled by an in ducker from Hume for a mere 182...must have been the ball change

Stand of 252 comes to an end . Joe Root entering a bit later than he's used to ...

Would like to see Root get some time in the middle here as he's not had much cricket at all lately. He'll want to push on of course , given the game situation ; but I hope he takes care to get himself in before going all funky...

I doubt they are planning any early closure. If they were , we might have seen Brook (or Broad !) promoted up the order to have a bash

Took a long time for Duckett to hit the first six of the game...but the "maximums" are raining down now.

150 for Pope with a sumptuous drive

Don't think Ireland are enjoying this. Lead should be well over 300 by tea so I'm now suspecting Stokes might get a bit bored watching and release the hounds some time this evening...

Could go for a thousand. Could let Pope go for Lara's record.

What will this be - 11 wins under Bazball? And only 1 against good opposition. Will be nice to see England take on the tougher challenges of Australia, plus India away later this year.

Pope really enjoying himself now ... Ha : a rare mishit even as I type ! But he's been hitting the ball wherever he likes lately ; looks in complete command. Nearing 200 : if Stokes fancies records he could probably tell him to just bat on and go for Lara's landmark

Root positively scratchy by comparison - but in his usual understated way he's already 38 off 45. Not bad for an anchorman...

alfie wrote:Pope really enjoying himself now  ... Ha : a rare mishit even as I type ! But he's been hitting the ball wherever he likes lately  ; looks in complete command. Nearing 200 : if Stokes fancies records he could probably tell him to just bat on and go for Lara's landmark

Root positively scratchy by comparison - but in his usual understated way he's already 38 off 45.  Not bad for an anchorman...

We got there at the same time. Mind you, I meant Lara's 501...

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:Pope really enjoying himself now  ... Ha : a rare mishit even as I type ! But he's been hitting the ball wherever he likes lately  ; looks in complete command. Nearing 200 : if Stokes fancies records he could probably tell him to just bat on and go for Lara's landmark

Root positively scratchy by comparison - but in his usual understated way he's already 38 off 45.  Not bad for an anchorman...

We got there at the same time. Mind you, I meant Lara's 501...

. Give you that one...

Hope we haven't hexed him with just four needed for the double...

11,000 for Joe Root.

Fittingly enough, the 11th man to get there. Another 5,000 or so to go to the very top and overtake Tendulkar.

Pope will have to wait over the interval for the double; just like he had to wait over lunch for the century. Would be his first test double ton and he has already crossed 2,000 test runs in this innings.

Timing the declaration could be tricky with milestones all over the place. Root will be nearing his century, and by the time he gets there Pope might be close to 300. And by the time he gets there Root might be near 200...I'd honestly leave it, although the expectation seems to be a declaration tonight.

I'm not too sure what to think of this match; on one hand it's a complete mismatch and I have no interest in watching but on the other hand if the game (specifically test cricket) is to grow or at least not die out then the lesser nations need an opportunity to progress. Ireland should probably be playing Bangladesh, Zimbabwe or the West Indies in an ideal world but who would bother watching?

Duty281 wrote:Could go for a thousand. Could let Pope go for Lara's record.

What will this be - 11 wins under Bazball? And only 1 against good opposition. Will be nice to see England take on the tougher challenges of Australia, plus India away later this year.

England were losing to the middle tier sides quite a lot pre Bazball. I don't think it's fair to call poor opposition, a lot of people had NZ and SA as favourites at the start of last summer

VTR wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Could go for a thousand. Could let Pope go for Lara's record.

What will this be - 11 wins under Bazball? And only 1 against good opposition. Will be nice to see England take on the tougher challenges of Australia, plus India away later this year.

England were losing to the middle tier sides quite a lot pre Bazball. I don't think it's fair to call poor opposition, a lot of people had NZ and SA as favourites at the start of last summer

Agreed . SA ain't what they used to be but they still have enough good players to fire on a day - as they did in that first game in England. And NZ - always underrated - showed what can happen if you make a mistake against them in that last game of the winter tour.

Pakistan in Pakistan had never been whitewashed before either.

Australia will surely be tougher , indeed. But let's not be too disdainful of the teams that England maybe made look worse than they are , eh ?

This one is a complete mismatch , unfortunately . Arguably wouldn't have been eighteen months ago though

And Root gone immediately after tea

That came out of nowhere. Glad he reached 11000 before the break !

Don't think Ireland will relax as Harry Brook appears...

Soul Requiem wrote:I'm not too sure what to think of this match; on one hand it's a complete mismatch and I have no interest in watching but on the other hand if the game (specifically test cricket) is to grow or at least not die out then the lesser nations need an opportunity to progress. Ireland should probably be playing Bangladesh, Zimbabwe or the West Indies in an ideal world but who would bother watching?

It's the sad legacy of the big three carving the game up.

Realistically Test crickets best chance to flourish is for it to be run as an actual league with a genuine central body. You sell the broadcast rights as a package so if companies want England, India and Australia they pay for the others. That central body then pays out from that pool to all Test nations to cover coaching, player salaries, setup costs for games, etc etc. Sides that can make more money from Test cricket through ticket revenue, endorsement deals, etc will still do so and can put more into their infrastructure, coaching, players, etc if they wish. Those basic payments to all Test nations would mean they then have a chance of genuinely hosting Test cricket though. Rather than most nations losing a ton of money per Test.

The big three will never relinquish control or short term money in favour of a game that has enough competition to thrive long term though. They'd rather think short term and remain the biggest fish in a shrinking pond. Which is incredibly sad.

Looking at the latest Test program it's what many have feared since the big three takeover. Outside of India, England and Australia the rest is being scheduled increasingly as warmup acts. Occasionally they throw the dog a bone such as this game, naturally Ireland get pumped as they have no support to actually develop and improve.

The IPL is often painted as the bogeyman but Test crickets dire governance and the corruption of that cartel taking over are the real issue. I believe there can be coexistence but only with genuine governance for the Test game.

The irony of the takeover is that England and Australia were willing participants thinking it'd give them lasting control. Increasingly they are looking around meekly for help as the BCCI gets more powerful and they less relevant. Unsurprisingly given their actions they aren't finding many allies. If the IPL keeps growing then it will reach a point where the IPL owners will get more powerful than the BCCI. At which point the BCCI will start looking around for allies too.

Stylish way to reach 200 Ollie Pope ! Lovely elegant six over long on...and now he's gone and that's enough for Stokes ...

Not surprised. Lead of 352 is plenty.

Top knock Pope. You can only beat up on the opposition you are given so he can take a bow

VTR wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Could go for a thousand. Could let Pope go for Lara's record.

What will this be - 11 wins under Bazball? And only 1 against good opposition. Will be nice to see England take on the tougher challenges of Australia, plus India away later this year.

England were losing to the middle tier sides quite a lot pre Bazball. I don't think it's fair to call poor opposition, a lot of people had NZ and SA as favourites at the start of last summer

England's losses against mid-tier opposition pre-Bazball were quite few. Obviously there was that series loss in the West Indies in 2022 and the other series loss in the West Indies in 2019, but that's the only two series losses England had going back to 2016 against middling opponents.

England did win 7 out of 10 series between the defeat of India in 2018 and the win in Sri Lanka in 2021. This featured a 4-1 over India, a 3-0 in Sri Lanka, a 3-1 in South Africa and a few more series wins at home. I think England won 6 straight overseas tests at this time. The only slip-ups in this time were the loss in the West Indies (poor), a narrow defeat in NZ (strong team at this time, on their way to becoming WTC winners) and the home draw to Australia.

After this run, England had a nightmare run of fixtures, where they visited India, had a visit from a fired-up NZ and India, then went to Australia. After the Australia drubbing, they toured the Caribbean. This is where the often-quoted 1 win in 17 comes from, but it needs the context that the vast majority of these games were against top table opposition (I feel this context is often missed), and 11 of these tests were in locations where England have never done well (India, Australia and the West Indies). The loss to the West Indies was obviously poor, but the rest of the games were against very good opposition, the top three in test cricket at the time.

England have been generally fine against middling opposition, especially at home. South Africa last year were poor, the worst SA team I've seen come over, and NZ were average and in steep decline, plus they had horrendous luck with injuries. The win in Pakistan was good, but again they were mediocre opponents (as exemplified by their WTC record) and prepared friendly pitches from an England perspective.

I just don't think the new regime have been challenged yet, and I'm looking forward to when they are.

alfie wrote:Stylish way to reach 200 Ollie Pope ! Lovely elegant six over long on...and now he's gone and that's enough for Stokes ...

Not surprised. Lead of 352 is plenty.

Top knock Pope. You can only beat up on the opposition you are given so he can take a bow

One eye on a two-day win?

Agree the new regime hasn't faced the biggest challenges yet, but the England of 2021, regardless of who they were playing were clearly devoid of confidence. They were well beaten at home by New Zealand and India had dominated the series that followed it. The loss in the West Indies was truly pathetic. I think its a big improvement since then

Think we are all looking forward to greater challenges ! But I don't agree with marking down serious success by concluding - with hindsight - that the opposition were rubbish. Pretty sure you for one , Duty , were less than confident about England's chances before those series were played ?

It's true England have generally been hard to beat at home for a long time (except 2021 !) But they weren't usually winning as decisively as last year...even against the lesser teams.

Expecting a tough battle in the Ashes. But if England were to demolish Australia 4-1 (hey a man can hope !) ; I wouldn't declare that Australia had suddenly become cannon fodder.

Anyway still work to do here. Five overs in and no wickets yet ! Ireland may yet give the day three crowd something to watch.

The downside to the early declaration is that Broad in particular is back in action a little earlier than ideal on a pretty good batting pitch. England might indeed have to work a bit harder this time around - which perhaps is no bad thing as it would give the two younger bowlers an opportunity to learn more about their trade at this level. Leach should get a good workout too...

Instant joy for Tongue !

First ball , first Test wicket. Moor trapped stone dead in a carbon copy of his first innings dismissal by Broad...wasted a review too.

Tongue understandably pumped