England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes

First topic message reminder :

June 1st-June 4th: One Test v Ireland (four days)
June 16th-July 31st: Five Tests v Australia
August 30th-September 5th: Four T20s v New Zealand
September 8th-September 15th: Four ODIs v New Zealand
September 20th-September 26th: Three ODIs v Ireland

England try to wrest the Ashes back from Australia, in a series which could be the greatest since 2005. Australia have currently held the urn for just over five years, which is the longest spell of urn-holding since the 1989-2005 period.

Ireland also visit for a test before that, and then there's some limited-overs games squashed into the last days of summer.

Series score - England 1-3 Australia
Top Aussie runscorer - Marnus Labuschagne
Top English runscorer - Ollie Pope
Top Aussie wicket-taker - Nathan Lyon
Top English wicket-taker - Stuart Broad
Player of the series - Cameron Green
Flop of the series - Ben Duckett
Surprise of the series - Alex Carey

And some extra yes/no questions if you fancy:

Any opener to make a century this series? Yes - one each from the most maligned on each side, Crawley and Warner.
Any player to make a double-century this series? Yes.
Any test to be won by fewer than 20 runs and/or by one wicket? No.
Will Anderson (685 wickets) level or overtake Warne (708 wickets) this series? No.
Will Crawley play all five tests? Yes.
Will either team be bowled out for a two-digit score at any point this series? Yes.
Will either team make 650+ at any point this series? No.
Will Smith make more centuries than the rest of the Aussie batting combined? No.
Will Cummins take 30+ wickets in the series? No

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Interesting transfer - Dan Lawrence going to Surrey for 2024 season. Feels like he's stagnated at Essex in the last year or two, could be the move he needs to kick on

Yeah. Before your time, Olly, but he was starting to remind me of the West Ham midfielder Paul Allen whose whole career seemed to be based on him being the youngest player to appear in a Cup Final.

JDizzle wrote:

king_carlos wrote:It keeps sticking in my mind that Warner actually had a pretty darn good 2015 series. 4th highest run scorer, 50 in every Test, averaging 46. The 2019 series was then a disaster and he has been on the decline but I genuinely thought he batted very well in the 1st innings of the WTC final to be fair. Something's nagging in the back of my head there.

With two left-handed openers, then Head and Carey having a bowler as good around the wicket to the lefties as road does make sense regardless of the Warner matchup though.

It is due to rain which will potentially mean more overhead conditions as alfie says.

It still just looks very one paced to me though.

A lot Warner’s runs in 2015 were low pressure knocks though - when the game was already effectively over.

50 in the second innings at Cardiff chasing 400+. 50 second innings at Lords when already 200+ ahead. 50 second innings at TB after the 8/15, so again, game was over.

If he corrects a terrible career record at his age in England - it will be a huge shock to me. Cue 150 by close tomorrow…

Very fair points, JD.

I'm suddenly feeling oddly optimistic on the eve of T1 which historically has been an awful omen for England. I've started to wonder if when the chances are really good I deep down know it and stay nervous but if it's looking a bit grim I bury it with my other feelings.

My reasons for the optimism:

- The England batters smart use of the crease to knock bowlers off their length feels like something that could work well against Starc (a favourite of mine but he can lose his radar and not control the Dukes) and Boland (his great skill is hitting the same spot and that wobble ball both of which England have mitigated against others).

- Root is too good a player for his sub 40 Ashes average. His record at home is superb and I'm backing my man to have a screamer having relinquished the captaincy.

- Whilst England certainly have issues in the bowling so do Australia with Hazlewood's side/achilles and them trying to get 6 Tests in 7 weeks from Cummins. Their skipper is an absolute gun but we saw what back to back to back Tests have done to their attack in Border-Gavaskar trophies at home and letting chances slip in 2019 where really they should have won the series.

- Whilst Head is certainly a danger man for the Aussies I think Brook is an equal one for England.

- Ollie Robinson. If he is fit and stays that way I think we might see just how special he could be.

Reasons to worry:

- Smudge and Marnus

- Stokes knee and Cam Green's potential

- Smudge and Marnus

- Spin bowling

Yeah, I think we're f***ed.

England 3 - 2 Australia

From what I have read of the pitch....Not much Grass, sunny dry weather indicates not a seamer's paradise.
How does Eng aim to take 20 wickets with 3 medium pacers and Ali?

I don't think taking 20 wkts is their primary objective

They want to bat last and back their ability to chase down whatever Aus gives them.
And I believe they are sure they will bat 4th.
Given the pitch & conditions Aus will bat first upon winning the toss and Eng will put Aus in if Eng win the toss.

Very interesting & likely to be entertaining if Eng are successful

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountain green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?
And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark satanic mills?
Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

Into these early and often England. Bazball them into the ground.

Noble sentiments , Olly ! Not sure how good your singing voice is but I will take it as all being poured out with vigour and harmony

KP_fan wrote:From what I have read of the pitch....Not much Grass, sunny dry weather indicates not a seamer's paradise.
How does Eng aim to take 20 wickets with 3 medium pacers  and Ali?

I don't think taking 20 wkts is their primary objective

They want to bat last and  back their ability to chase down whatever Aus gives them.
And I believe they are sure they will bat 4th.
Given the pitch & conditions Aus will bat first upon winning the toss and Eng will put Aus in if Eng win the toss.

Very interesting & likely to be entertaining if Eng are successful

You might well be right about the tactics , KP_fan...

But 20 wickets is always the priority - as Stokes and other England players have stressed on a number of occasions. How to get them ? Well they have got 20 in all but one of the matches they've played under Stokes . And it has mostly been these "medium pacers" taking the bulk of them. Pace is nice if you have it ; but we saw a few days ago that Boland was more effective than his much speedier mates - and he may well be the main man for Australia in this , no ?

Anyway , as you have been telling us for days , the Returning Hero is capable of showing up all those spin pretenders England have been using for the last couple of years so surely you have faith in his ability to monster Australia ?

Agree it will be entertaining - probably whether successful or not

Looks a most obvious bat-first day, but will England subscribe to such logic? Pitch looks a beauty and the weather is near-perfect.

I switched on and wondered why George W Bush was at the cricket, then I realised it was Ponting.

KP_Fan talking about England's '3 medium pacers' in a somewhat disparaging tone, seeing as how two of them have over 1,000 test wickets between them, and the other has a bowling average of 20! But, in the battle between the two teams respective three front-line seamers, Australia's set are more likely to get a decent rest in between spells, because Green and Lyon are more capable of holding ends and providing a threat than England's Moeen/Root/Stokes combo. This could be a telling advantage.

Lot saying this is the most hyped series since 2005. But I actually think 2006 was more hyped. So it's the most hyped since 2006.

I've noted a curious umpiring team for this team - Marais Erasmus and Ahsan Raza (Pakistan). Erasmus is fine, not my favourite umpire but essentially fine, however Raza is very inexperienced. This will be just his 8th test match where he's in the middle, and first outside of his native Pakistan. But we had to put up with Joel Wilson at the last home Ashes, so this can't be any worse.

Cricinfo reckoning there'll be no surprises with Australia and that Boland will start over Hazlewood. Actually, I'll ignore Cricinfo. They're claiming Mitch Marsh has marked out his run-up...surely not?

“Put up with Joel Wilson” - I won’t have the great Joel spoken of like that Duty, his work at Headingley 2019 has earnt him a lifetime pass!

That's true, but Edgbaston 2019 was quite a farce.

TMS now picking up on Marsh marking his runup as well as cricinfo. Apparently Starc and Hazlewood are nowhere to be seen.

Injury issues for the Aussies perhaps?

king_carlos wrote:I'm suddenly feeling oddly optimistic on the eve of T1 which historically has been an awful omen for England. ....

I've been enjoying the varying optimistic and pessimistic threads (sometimes from the same poster, Carlos! ). One of the beauties of our game is that you never know*.

My worry for England is that Australia have a better and coordinated bowling unit. Something that went under the radar in their impressive Championship Final win - well, I didn't read it or hear it mentioned - but really stood out for me was that none of their bowlers took more than 5 match wickets. However, the main 4 took 4 or 5 each. Starc 4, Lyon, 4, Cummins 5 and Boland 5 with Green (''the piece of the Jigsaw that fits it all together'' - some Sky pundit) chipping in with a couple.

In other words, no individual bowler really stood out stats wise but their overall bowling performance did. I struggle to see England having such an effective pack. That thought was there before Leach got crocked - I believed Australia would go after him resulting in the main seam trio having to bowl too many overs in his place plus overs also having to be given to Root [how he bowls could be important as mentioned before] and a possibly/probably unfit Stokes. If that thought was correct, I don't see it changing with Moeen's recall.

This is not to say that England's bowling will fall off a cliff and Australia will run away with it but to keep home spirits high and Olly belting out Jerusalem, my gut feel is that a particular England bowler - maybe, Broad again or, as tipped by Olly with respected seconding here, Robinson - will need to shine out.

Anyway, not long now before the beginning of finding out ....

* Unless, of course, you're KP_f posting the next day.

Sounds like Hazlewood has been preferred over Starc. That's a brave call, but perhaps one I'd agree with after Starc and Boland's respective performances v India.

Won't be too long to find out!

England win the toss and bat first. Wicket looks pristine.

Hazlewood is in for Starc. No Mitch Marsh!

England win the toss and bat

Good toss to win and good decision I'd guess. It looks a belter of a wicket and batting day. It's good to see England go against that blueprint of liking chasing when conditions dictate.

Now they need to capitalise on it.

No pressure Duckett and Crawley!

Duty281 wrote:Sounds like Hazlewood has been preferred over Starc. That's a brave call, but perhaps one I'd agree with after Starc and Boland's respective performances v India.

Won't be too long to find out!

Interesting !  Long tail ...  and maybe some concern over fitness/match preparation ?  No Mitch Marsh though I suppose  : isn't there a "Mitch quota"  rule ?

And confirmed , I see. England batting first by choice ? One down for KP_fan

Good news with Starc missing out, only to be tempered by Hazlewood playing instead.

Starc is a good bowler and his left handed angle is awkward to play against. but Hazlewood is another level up IMO. Just his fitness that could be an issue.

Duty281 wrote:Sounds like Hazlewood has been preferred over Starc. That's a brave call, but perhaps one I'd agree with after Starc and Boland's respective performances v India.

Won't be too long to find out!

Personally, I feel it shows a lack of respect to me and Joey's competition.

Also - and some might think more seriously - it certainly lengthens Australia's tail weakening their batting. Starc is so often good for a quick 30.

PS and Edit: Rats! Alfie has already played my ''Lengthening The Tail'' card.

Typically vacuous post from myself so that this thread appears under MyPosts.

guildfordbat wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Sounds like Hazlewood has been preferred over Starc. That's a brave call, but perhaps one I'd agree with after Starc and Boland's respective performances v India.

Won't be too long to find out!

Personally, I feel it shows a lack of respect to me and Joey's competition.

Also - and some might think more seriously - it certainly lengthens Australia's tail weakening their batting. Starc is so often good for a quick 30.

PS and Edit: Rats! Alfie has already played my ''Lengthening The Tail'' card.

I'm not imagining any middle ground here. Either England make a monster total or get shot out for under 250.

Zac sets the tone for the summer... crashes a 4 to the boundary.

Yep, I think they're going to keep bazing the ball then...

That's a beauty to start from Crawley.

Very early doors but this looks like an absolute road. Just enough carry for pace onto the bat but nothing more really. Flat as anything.

Maybe there will be a hint of turn but early signs are this is about as good as it gets for batting in England.

That's poor from Duckett. They started off way too defensively too him, putting balls on leg stump, then they adjust to outside off and get their man easily enough.

Early indications are it's an absolute road with little (if any) swing early doors, so that's a very disappointing dismissal for Duckett. Feet were stuck and no intent behind the shot.

Disappointing from Duckett there ...bit of a gift nibbling at that one.

After a bright start too. And interestingly Australia have set a strangely conservative field very early...perhaps they fancy England may get themselves out ? That wicket suggests it may not be a bad theory...

Duckett is so strong square but that was two false shots in a row trying to cut balls too close to him. Even with how tight Duckett keeps his hands to the body they were to straight to be going square. Disappointing.

On the brighter side I think Crawley's footwork looks better than I've previously seen.

These two now need to make sure the powerful middle order aren't out there in the first hour.

On replay the second one wasn't too straight. Hazlewood just smartly pushed it that touch wider and it's a half hearted dab.

Not many boundaries, but strike rotation has been excellent so far.

Duty281 wrote:Not many boundaries, but strike rotation has been excellent so far.

They put the boundary riders back almost immediately. Started with them to Duckett in fact. Given how immediate it was I'd guess that's the game plan. If England are going to play the big shots anyway then dry up the boundaries. As you say they are taking the singles very well though.

Hazlewood significantly better than Cummins so far.

Here comes Boland.

Interesting move to get Lyon on early. Kinda expected him to come on early, but perhaps not this early. Might want to target Pope's weakness against spin.

Lyon on after only 9 overs on the first day.

Spin in the 10th over for Pope. Lyon immediately around the wicket too.

And Pope gets the reverse out.

And Crawley.

It's going to be a fun summer. 

Cracking shot from Crawley to end the over. 7 from Lyon's first. So important he can't just whirl away.

I remember Duckett getting out similarly to that in consecutive white ball games in SA - it’s a slight concern, and looks to be exploitable against bowlers who can extract that extra bounce.

50 up in the 11th over, so the Aussie defensive fields aren't making a huge difference to the scoring rate. Other than Duckett's error, England doing a good job so far of picking off the singles and putting the odd one away still.

Drying up the boundaries works if you know, you actually dry them up...all the Aussies have done in that first hour is allowed England to rotate the strike and still hit a fair few boundaries. Bizarrely defensive stuff from them first up.

Good start from England - but pitch does indeed look a road. Going to need to go big

It was a very important toss to win. It's an absolute road. 450 is par, maybe even 500 on this. I know it's quite early, but unless we see rapid deterioration (unlikely), it might be one of those tests where both sides rack up 450+ batting first and the pressure falls back on the side batting first in the third innings when the pitch is a bit spicier.  

Crawley has driven the ball extremely well. Get that Australia wanted to prevent boundaries, but the well-run singles and twos means they've developed no scoreboard pressure, and overall they've just been very passive. Zero maidens, zero pressure. It's been like an ODI field in the middle overs.

Oh dear, KP in the commentary box.

First hour confirms expectations : that England are not going to take a backward step.

Slightly surprising Australia have gone so defensive virtually from the start ? I get they don't want to let England do a Rawalpindi on day one ; but thought they'd invite errors more for at least the initial new ball spell.

But I suppose we are seeing what many expected : the clash of 2 methods - high octane aggression v control and patience. Time will tell...

Wow, Crawley nicked one behind but no one appealed.

Duty281 wrote:It was a very important toss to win. It's an absolute road. 450 is par, maybe even 500 on this. I know it's quite early, but unless we see rapid deterioration (unlikely), it might be one of those tests where both sides rack up 450+ batting first and the pressure falls back on the side batting first in the third innings when the pitch is a bit spicier.  

Crawley has driven the ball extremely well. Get that Australia wanted to prevent boundaries, but the well-run singles and twos means they've developed no scoreboard pressure, and overall they've just been very passive. Zero maidens, zero pressure. It's been like an ODI field in the middle overs.

Oh dear, KP in the commentary box.

Getting a bit ahead with the road maps after just one hour , Duty .

Looks lovely for batting ; but let's see how things go over a couple of days. Think it may be a bit quicker tomorrow ; may be reverse ; may take spin....

Wow. Looks as if Crawley edged that one from Boland ?

That looked plumb immediately, not sure how it wasn't given initially

Good review Lyon ! I thought that pitched outside leg on first view...but it turned out perfect...

Pope will be cross to get out after looking so fluent up to then. Australia will be delighted after being on the back foot for the last hour or so.

Fifty for Zac

Inexperienced umpire makes his first mistake. Lyon gets Pope again. Both he and Duckett have missed out. If Australia can get one more this session they should be content.

Just saw this on the BBC: There has been less deviation at the start of this Test than any other Test in England since deviation stats became available in 2006.

Wonder if we'll see Green bowl at Root before lunch?

I'm going to have to mute the commentary soon...

alfie wrote:I'm going to have to mute the commentary soon...

This duo's half-hour is nearly up!

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:I'm going to have to mute the commentary soon...

This duo's half-hour is nearly up!

You could put TMS on instead, but Vaughan's on there...

Does appear to be a bit of rough developing in the bowler's follow through - Lyon is getting a bit of grip, suspect it'll turn later in the game.

Duty281 wrote:It was a very important toss to win. It's an absolute road. 450 is par, maybe even 500 on this. I know it's quite early, but unless we see rapid deterioration (unlikely), it might be one of those tests where both sides rack up 450+ batting first and the pressure falls back on the side batting first in the third innings when the pitch is a bit spicier.  

Exactly what I was think, Duty. I'd say it's a 500 run 1st innings wicket this.

It's amazing what a pitch can do to the appearance of a bowlers pace. I keep thinking that they don't quite seem at full tilt but Hazlewood and Cummins clearly are. Consistent mid to high 80s from Hazlewood and Cummins flicking the 90mph mark as you'd expect.