2024 US Presidential Election

First topic message reminder :

Thought we should have a thread on it, as Ron DeSantis is expected to launch his campaign on Twitter this evening. He's trailing Trump by a big margin for the Republican nomination, around 37% behind in the polling average. But there's a lot of time for things to change and the oddsmakers only have DeSantis as a 2/1 outsider, against Trump's 2/5. Doesn't appear to be any other serious contenders for the Republican nomination at this point.

Biden is expected to run again and defend his crown, but his advancing age (he's into his 80s now) and low approval ratings means he may be vulnerable to a Democratic challenger. The most likely challenger seems to be Robert Kennedy Jr. who has already announced his candidacy and has polled as high as 21%, but that was still 49% behind Biden. As such, Biden's a 2/9 clear favourite to be the Democrat nominee in 2024, but if he drops out for whatever reason then the race is wide open.

Only 531 days until the election...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:On the other hand we have a man in his late 70s who, in a grand delusion, actually believes the last election was rigged, and who mistook Nikki Haley for Nancy Pelosi.

I find it astonishing and sad that anyone thinks either one is fit to be President.

Agreed. It's a terrible situation for the American people.

Trump is as bad as Biden these days.

No he isn't........Biden allegedly can't remember being vice president or when his Son died.....

Fixed it for you .

mountain man wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:Aside from the fact that there's an increasing amount of blatant age discrimination entering the general conversation around Biden, whether the substance of that report re. classified document retention is true, or not, the idea that Hur thinks it's even remotely appropriate to talk about Biden's memory in the way he apparently has is a joke. It's so far outside his remit, it's ridiculous.

While not wanting to ignore all of what's apparently included, I think it's reasonable to ask why a Trump appointed DoJ Special Counsel just coincidentally includes incendiary comment re. Biden's apparent memory lapses in his report, knowing full well that Biden's age/memory are a known target for the Republicans. Hmm....

Nothing to do with age discrimination! It's fact there have been so many recorded incidents where he gets confused, doesn't know what's going on etc etc. If he was 60 I'd say the same.

Sure. Maybe we should wait on the regular health checks for the President diagnosing that there's a problem, instead of piling on from a position of zero actual knowledge?

Who cares? America is FUBAR.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Talk again of Biden retiring and Michelle Obama the darling of the liberal media becoming the candidate......

No doubt she wins and she would be welcome as a new poll has Biden's rating at minus 33..Considering Nixon was at minus 40 when he was resigning over watergate it is quite sobering.

But try telling Kamala Harris to step out of the way..

If Michelle Obama has an ounce of sense she'll stay well away.

Let it burn. Ditto the UK. It's pretty clear 'we' (as in at a national level) as so ****ing childish, we deserve to be royally screwed. We're not mature enough for 'freedom' and the responsibilities to wider society that are implied in that. The politicians on both sides of The Pond are, mainly, an utter disgrace. As are too many of the air heads (yes, I'm applying that in a nice, gender neutral fashion) who vote the morally bankrupt cretins into power.

Absolutely pathetic. Too far removed from the last serious war to realise that things other than blatant narcissistic self-interest, greed and grift are far more important.

Who cares? America is FUBAR

Well I do. If US President not fit for office that affects entire world. If Trump for example gets in then support for Ukraine in war with Russia likely to diminish/vanish.
Biden I think is not so unhinged as Trump but that doesn't mean I have confidence in him. And before you say it, yes they have loads of advisors etc but the actual President is the one the world sees and hears.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:Aside from the fact that there's an increasing amount of blatant age discrimination entering the general conversation around Biden, whether the substance of that report re. classified document retention is true, or not, the idea that Hur thinks it's even remotely appropriate to talk about Biden's memory in the way he apparently has is a joke. It's so far outside his remit, it's ridiculous.

While not wanting to ignore all of what's apparently included, I think it's reasonable to ask why a Trump appointed DoJ Special Counsel just coincidentally includes incendiary comment re. Biden's apparent memory lapses in his report, knowing full well that Biden's age/memory are a known target for the Republicans. Hmm....

Age discrimination?! Yes, a man in his 80s with severe memory lapses, who invents stories of conversations with people who have long been dead, shouldn't be President of the USA. If that's age discrimination, sign me up.

Biden's memory was brought up as a reason for not finding him guilty e.g. "In a case where the government must prove that Mr. Biden knew he had possession of the classified Afghanistan documents after the vice presidency and chose to keep those documents, knowing he was violating the law, we expect that at trial, his attorneys would emphasize these limitations in his recall."

I didn't think you'd get the age discrimination comment. No matter though.

Given the nature of the Special Counsel (whom I accept could actually be scrupulously professional no matter how he was appointed), I'll defer judgement on whether Biden behaved as he did until I hear verbatim recordings and/or confirmation from a reliable witness, if it's OK with you.

The thing is you don't need verbatim recordings or confirmation from reliable witnesses, because you can see similar aspects of Biden's behaviour through the last four years, which is why this is no surprise. I mean, in the last few days he's claimed to have talked to Mitterrand and Kohl in 2021, even though both had died by then, and he referred yesterday to the President of Egypt as the President of Mexico.

Even four years ago Biden was a confused mess on the campaign trail.

But despite being shown this evidence numerous times you still defend Biden vociferously.

navyblueshorts wrote:

mountain man wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:Aside from the fact that there's an increasing amount of blatant age discrimination entering the general conversation around Biden, whether the substance of that report re. classified document retention is true, or not, the idea that Hur thinks it's even remotely appropriate to talk about Biden's memory in the way he apparently has is a joke. It's so far outside his remit, it's ridiculous.

While not wanting to ignore all of what's apparently included, I think it's reasonable to ask why a Trump appointed DoJ Special Counsel just coincidentally includes incendiary comment re. Biden's apparent memory lapses in his report, knowing full well that Biden's age/memory are a known target for the Republicans. Hmm....

Nothing to do with age discrimination! It's fact there have been so many recorded incidents where he gets confused, doesn't know what's going on etc etc. If he was 60 I'd say the same.

Sure. Maybe we should wait on the regular health checks for the President diagnosing that there's a problem, instead of piling on from a position of zero actual knowledge?

Who cares? America is FUBAR.

You think his Doctor is going to be stupid enough to disclose the findings ????.....When someone does a dodgy back pass at Soccer and the other team score....i don't need to wait for an expert to confirm my opinion on who messed up.....

When a guy keeps falling over........Can't remember current events and looks like a Zombie...I don't need to wait for an expert opinion to tell me all is not well...

Get my drift ???

Duty281 wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...  Biden .... the most unpopular President ever seen ....

2020 US Presidential Election:  Joe Biden: 81,283,501 votes

Surpassing Barack Obama's record of 69.5 million votes from 2008.  Biden received more than 81 million votes, the most votes ever cast for a candidate in a U.S. presidential election.

Joe Biden was the most popular candidate for President ever and by a significant margin given the number of people that voted for him.

I was actually referring to Biden's very low approval rating, which is currently about 8% lower (Fivethirtyeight) than Trump's at the same stage of his Presidency.

Most of Biden's votes in 2020 were from people who were primarily concerned with getting Trump out, not out of any particular love for Biden.

If true the same will apply for 2024.  I haven't seen anyone change their opinion on Trump - either they hate him or they think he is their savior.  There are those that are more neutral but we generally don't get to hear from them too much.  

The point is the people that voted for Biden / voted against Trump will likely vote for Biden again in 2024 or not at all.   The younger electorate (those too young to vote in 2020) are more likely to vote for Biden / against Trump than for Trump.

So in summary we would expect a drop off in Biden's vote for those disappointed in Biden but not those that voted for Biden because they were opposed to Trump.   However the margin of Biden's victory was still quite huge (81,283,501 to 74,223,975 --> over 7 million margin) - so the drop off has to be bigger than that margin.  However the new cohort of voters will in my opinion be more likely to vote for Biden than Trump (for various reasons).

When it comes to polls it seems to me people are going to be less willing to say who they will be voting for because of the toxicity on either side, but maybe more so for those that will vote for Biden (who some are portraying as too old and dementia ridden).  If this is the case polls will likely be much wider from the mark than the so-called margin of errors claimed for such polls.

With regard Biden's age and mental functioning - it is clear the speed of memory recall has declined - which means he makes gaffes, especially when he is tired - and being President is a physical drain given all the interviews, media work, travel required.   However when it comes to making decisions he has more time and he is surrounded by aides and advisors.

In Biden's younger days he was mentally sharp and mentally quick.  He has been in high level political power for a long time - over fifty years.   His political thinking and policies haven't changed too much over those years.

No name Bertie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...  Biden .... the most unpopular President ever seen ....

2020 US Presidential Election:  Joe Biden: 81,283,501 votes

Surpassing Barack Obama's record of 69.5 million votes from 2008.  Biden received more than 81 million votes, the most votes ever cast for a candidate in a U.S. presidential election.

Joe Biden was the most popular candidate for President ever and by a significant margin given the number of people that voted for him.

I was actually referring to Biden's very low approval rating, which is currently about 8% lower (Fivethirtyeight) than Trump's at the same stage of his Presidency.

Most of Biden's votes in 2020 were from people who were primarily concerned with getting Trump out, not out of any particular love for Biden.

If true the same will apply for 2024.  I haven't seen anyone change their opinion on Trump - either they hate him or they think he is their savior.  There are those that are more neutral but we generally don't get to hear from them too much.  

The point is the people that voted for Biden / voted against Trump will likely vote for Biden again in 2024 or not at all.   The younger electorate (those too young to vote in 2020) are more likely to vote for Biden / against Trump than for Trump.

So in summary we would expect a drop off in Biden's vote for those disappointed in Biden but not those that voted for Biden because they were opposed to Trump.   However the margin of Biden's victory was still quite huge (81,283,501 to 74,223,975 --> over 7 million margin) - so the drop off has to be bigger than that margin.  However the new cohort of voters will in my opinion be more likely to vote for Biden than Trump (for various reasons).

When it comes to polls it seems to me people are going to be less willing to say who they will be voting for because of the toxicity on either side, but maybe more so for those that will vote for Biden (who some are portraying as too old and dementia ridden).  If this is the case polls will likely be much wider from the mark than the so-called margin of errors claimed for such polls.

But the margin of victory wasn't 7 million, because it's decided by the Electoral College.

The actual margin of victory was 43 thousand (Arizona + Georgia + Wisconsin combined majorities), which is a wafer thin margin and easily surmountable.

Trump is currently polling better than four years ago and is on course to win so far, so I wouldn't write him off. Some people who were opposed to Trump may now not be, for example, or some may now think Trump is the least worst of the two. And this would be tied to Biden's approval ratings currently being lower than Trump's were four years ago.

ps.  The spanner in the works if it is a Trump-Biden run off is the independent candidate, Robert F Kennedy Jr.   Unfortunately for RFK Jr he has damage to his larynx which makes it difficult to hear clearly what he is saying.

Duty281 wrote:

No name Bertie wrote: ... So in summary we would expect a drop off in Biden's vote for those disappointed in Biden but not those that voted for Biden because they were opposed to Trump.   However the margin of Biden's victory was still quite huge (81,283,501 to 74,223,975 --> over 7 million margin) - so the drop off has to be bigger than that margin.  However the new cohort of voters will in my opinion be more likely to vote for Biden than Trump (for various reasons)....

But the margin of victory wasn't 7 million, because it's decided by the Electoral College.

The actual margin of victory was 43 thousand (Arizona + Georgia + Wisconsin combined majorities), which is a wafer thin margin and easily surmountable.

Trump is currently polling better than four years ago and is on course to win so far, so I wouldn't write him off....

You are right - fair point.

So anyone still think good idea Trump next US President ;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68266447

mountain man wrote:So anyone still think good idea Trump next US President ;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68266447

Foreign affairs won't win or lose an Election.......Unless it is an umpopular war and the "incumbent" is up crap alley...

Inflation.....Health costs......Crime and immigration.........

Most Americans couldn't give a toss about Nato..

Still finding it bizarre that so many citizens of a first world country remain apparently prepared to hand over power to a bombastic demagogue who openly canvases finding ways to "lock up" political opponents ; urges supporters to attempt to overthrow the legitimate processes of government ; asks state governors to fiddle the vote counts on his behalf - while at the same time claiming it is he and his party that is being cheated !  Not to mention his unapologetic treatment of women ...

What has he actually even done for his deluded fan club ? For all his talk about controlling immigration , his efforts consisted of spending megabucks building miles of "wall" - which has not prevented the numbers of illegal arrivals reaching new heights. His trade wars have eventually mainly impacted ordinary Americans ; his foreign policies emboldened the dictators serving to make the world more unstable than it has been for decades. I'm sure his supporters largely don't care about - or even believe in - the dangers of climate change ; though their grandchildren might. He made a right mess of the Covid crisis too ; though I can almost forgive him there as so many other political leaders didn't do much better. Though musing about the idea of drinking bleach to treat the virus does also leave me shaking my head

I get that Biden isn't exactly inspiring. He wasn't what you'd call charismatic in 2020 either ; so I presume much of the vote for him was more "not Trump" in nature. With four years supply of younger voters coming on line it seems extraordinary that the numbers can really have switched so strongly towards a man whose main attributes seem to be a complete lack of regard for truth or ethics and an endless capacity for mouthing simplistic slogans. Guess we will see later this year ...

As for the democrats it does seem they are content to run with Biden , age issues and all. Might be a bit awkward if they didn't since the factors that presumably made his vice-president a useful vote catcher in some areas (gender and ethnicity) might conversely be a vote loser if she were elevated to the prime position ? I don't have the feeling she would be a wildly popular choice if Biden were to step aside - and not sure there is anyone else in a position to pop up as alternative . Though I guess those with more knowledge of US politics might have a better idea.

If all else is failing perhaps Biden could persuade Taylor Swift to be his running mate

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

mountain man wrote:So anyone still think good idea Trump next US President ;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68266447

Foreign affairs won't win or lose an Election.......Unless it is an umpopular war and the "incumbent" is up crap alley...

Inflation.....Health costs......Crime and immigration.........

Most Americans couldn't give a toss about Nato..

Foreign affairs won't maybe but threat of letting Russia invade and attack an ally with his blessing might. Don't you think that is an outrageous thing for Trump to say and he has a history of outrageous comments but that is something else.

Taken to extreme, Russia invades a Nato country, USA does nothing so rest of Nato go in against Russia. It escalates as of course Putin will never back down. Potential for WW111 right there which ultimately will affect the land of the free and home of the numpty.

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:Aside from the fact that there's an increasing amount of blatant age discrimination entering the general conversation around Biden, whether the substance of that report re. classified document retention is true, or not, the idea that Hur thinks it's even remotely appropriate to talk about Biden's memory in the way he apparently has is a joke. It's so far outside his remit, it's ridiculous.

While not wanting to ignore all of what's apparently included, I think it's reasonable to ask why a Trump appointed DoJ Special Counsel just coincidentally includes incendiary comment re. Biden's apparent memory lapses in his report, knowing full well that Biden's age/memory are a known target for the Republicans. Hmm....

Age discrimination?! Yes, a man in his 80s with severe memory lapses, who invents stories of conversations with people who have long been dead, shouldn't be President of the USA. If that's age discrimination, sign me up.

Biden's memory was brought up as a reason for not finding him guilty e.g. "In a case where the government must prove that Mr. Biden knew he had possession of the classified Afghanistan documents after the vice presidency and chose to keep those documents, knowing he was violating the law, we expect that at trial, his attorneys would emphasize these limitations in his recall."

I didn't think you'd get the age discrimination comment. No matter though.

Given the nature of the Special Counsel (whom I accept could actually be scrupulously professional no matter how he was appointed), I'll defer judgement on whether Biden behaved as he did until I hear verbatim recordings and/or confirmation from a reliable witness, if it's OK with you.

The thing is you don't need verbatim recordings or confirmation from reliable witnesses, because you can see similar aspects of Biden's behaviour through the last four years, which is why this is no surprise. I mean, in the last few days he's claimed to have talked to Mitterrand and Kohl in 2021, even though both had died by then, and he referred yesterday to the President of Egypt as the President of Mexico.

Even four years ago Biden was a confused mess on the campaign trail.

But despite being shown this evidence numerous times you still defend Biden vociferously.

As I previously said, I largely don't give a 4X whether he makes the odd verbal SNAFU; I'd rather judge whether he's capable enough (yes, I know it's not all down to him) re. policy, dealing with the absurdities that are the current House/Senate etc. Him over Trump every day of the week for me. My main, and growing, gripe w/ Biden is his stance on Israel-Gaza - pathetic.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

mountain man wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:Aside from the fact that there's an increasing amount of blatant age discrimination entering the general conversation around Biden, whether the substance of that report re. classified document retention is true, or not, the idea that Hur thinks it's even remotely appropriate to talk about Biden's memory in the way he apparently has is a joke. It's so far outside his remit, it's ridiculous.

While not wanting to ignore all of what's apparently included, I think it's reasonable to ask why a Trump appointed DoJ Special Counsel just coincidentally includes incendiary comment re. Biden's apparent memory lapses in his report, knowing full well that Biden's age/memory are a known target for the Republicans. Hmm....

Nothing to do with age discrimination! It's fact there have been so many recorded incidents where he gets confused, doesn't know what's going on etc etc. If he was 60 I'd say the same.

Sure. Maybe we should wait on the regular health checks for the President diagnosing that there's a problem, instead of piling on from a position of zero actual knowledge?

Who cares? America is FUBAR.

You think his Doctor is going to be stupid enough to disclose the findings ????.....When someone does a dodgy back pass at Soccer and the other team score....i don't need to wait for an expert to confirm my opinion on who messed up.....

When a guy keeps falling over........Can't remember current events and looks like a Zombie...I don't need to wait for an expert opinion to tell me all is not well...

Get my drift ???

I get your drift. I bow to your superior ability to make accurate, evidence-based medical diagnoses based on TV and media reporting. Congrats...

No name Bertie wrote:With regard Biden's age and mental functioning - it is clear the speed of memory recall has declined - which means he makes gaffes, especially when he is tired - and being President is a physical drain given all the interviews, media work, travel required.   However when it comes to making decisions he has more time and he is surrounded by aides and advisors.

In Biden's younger days he was mentally sharp and mentally quick.  He has been in high level political power for a long time - over fifty years.   His political thinking and policies haven't changed too much over those years.

This is the problem re. his views on Israel...

alfie wrote:Still finding it bizarre that so many citizens of a first world country remain apparently prepared to hand over power to a bombastic demagogue who openly canvases finding ways to "lock up" political opponents ; urges supporters to attempt to overthrow the legitimate processes of government ; asks state governors to fiddle the vote counts on his behalf - while at the same time claiming it is he and his party that is being cheated !  Not to mention his unapologetic treatment of women ...

What has he actually even done for his deluded fan club ? For all his talk about controlling immigration , his efforts consisted of spending megabucks building miles of "wall" - which has not prevented the numbers of illegal arrivals reaching new heights. His trade wars have eventually mainly impacted ordinary Americans ; his foreign policies emboldened the dictators serving to make the world more unstable than it has been for decades. I'm sure his supporters largely don't care about - or even believe in - the dangers of climate change ; though their grandchildren might. He made a right mess of the Covid crisis too ; though I can almost forgive him there as so many other political leaders didn't do much better. Though musing about the idea of drinking bleach to treat the virus does also leave me shaking my head  

I get that Biden isn't exactly inspiring. He wasn't what you'd call charismatic in 2020 either ; so I presume much of the vote for him was more "not Trump" in nature. With four years supply of younger voters coming on line it seems extraordinary that the numbers can really have switched so strongly towards a man whose main attributes seem to be a complete lack of regard for truth or ethics and an endless capacity for mouthing simplistic slogans. Guess we will see later this year ...

As for the democrats it does seem they are content to run with Biden , age issues and all. Might be a bit awkward if they didn't since the factors that presumably made his vice-president a useful vote catcher in some areas (gender and ethnicity) might conversely be a vote loser if she were elevated to the prime position ? I don't have the feeling she would be a wildly popular choice if Biden were to step aside - and not sure there is anyone else in a position to pop up as alternative . Though I guess those with more knowledge of US politics might have a better idea.

If all else is failing perhaps Biden could persuade Taylor Swift to be his running mate

If Biden doesn't run it'll probably be Newsom or Michelle Obama.

Trump achieved many good things during his Presidency (before Covid), and with Biden being a complete lame duck, it's unsurprising to see a drift back to Trump. Currently the Democrats fault for putting Biden back up again.

Duty281 wrote:...Trump achieved many good things during his Presidency (before Covid)...

I disagree, but you wouldn't be surprised by that, would you? Anything on the economy that Trump claimed was probably due to Obama fixing the Bush years. Same's going to happen this time if the Dems aren't careful. What other 'successes' (actual, rather than imagined) can Trump claim, other than grifting, sucking up to dictators, and playing golf etc?

mountain man wrote:Foreign affairs won't maybe but threat of letting Russia invade and attack an ally with his blessing might. Don't you think that is an outrageous thing for Trump to say and he has a history of outrageous comments but that is something else.

Taken to extreme, Russia invades a Nato country, USA does nothing so rest of Nato go in against Russia. It escalates as of course Putin will never back down. Potential for WW111 right there which ultimately will affect the land of the free and home of the numpty.

That would be incredible, if it happened. Then again, Trump's such a narcissist, if he thought it made him look 'tough' (this, the bone spur draft dodging macho man...), or it would make him money, I could easily believe he'd threaten this. The U.S.A. is a signatory to the NATO treaty and Article 5, so would he really contemplate not fulfilling his country's duty were Russia to deliberately hit/invade a NATO member country? Who knows, and I'm not sure some of the wingnuts in the House and Senate give me much confidence that they wouldn't support a Trump doing this...

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Trump achieved many good things during his Presidency (before Covid)...

I disagree, but you wouldn't be surprised by that, would you? Anything on the economy that Trump claimed was probably due to Obama fixing the Bush years. Same's going to happen this time if the Dems aren't careful. What other 'successes' (actual, rather than imagined) can Trump claim, other than grifting, sucking up to dictators, and playing golf etc?

Well it's a very lazy brush to just sweep away Trump's tremendous economic successes (until Covid) by just attributing it to Obama. Those who thought the economy was the most important issue backed Trump by 82-18 in 2020, highlighting how good they believed he was on the issue. I've written before about his achievements:

Made drug prices transparent/health care providers had to disclose their prices publicly, leading to a fall in prescription prices. Expanded oil production and lessened America's dependence on imports. Animal abusers faced tougher consequences.

Enhanced protections for religious freedom. Withdrew from TPP in an effort to preserve American manufacturing, and made promised reforms to NAFTA. NATO countries increased spending on defence due to Trump's involvement.

Wages rose and poverty fell to the lowest rate for about 15-20 years; poverty rates for black and Hispanic Americans actually fell to the lowest rate since data started at one point. Of course Covid may have altered this. Introduced paternal leave for federal workers. The First Step Act, which reformed the justice system and addressed inequalities that black Americans faced. Committed funds to build rural water infrastructure, and fix the problems in Flint, Michigan.

Appointed many LGBT people to prominent posts. I think the first openly-gay American to get a cabinet position happened under Trump, plus there were about half-a-dozen openly gay ambassadors appointed. Lots of tax cuts. Violent crime decreased. ISIS were defeated, the leader was killed in 2019. Made huge steps forward for peace in the Middle East, also didn't start any new wars. Established Space Force as well.

He also signed into law many other good initiatives that were mainly the work of Congress, but that he supported, including for the environment and Native Americans. Bolstered support for Taiwan and Hong Kong. Increased funding for historically black colleges and universities.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Trump achieved many good things during his Presidency (before Covid)...

I disagree, but you wouldn't be surprised by that, would you? Anything on the economy that Trump claimed was probably due to Obama fixing the Bush years. Same's going to happen this time if the Dems aren't careful. What other 'successes' (actual, rather than imagined) can Trump claim, other than grifting, sucking up to dictators, and playing golf etc?

7 million new jobs before Covid...Unemployment rate of 3.5% was the lowest in 50 years..
No Russia v Ukraine........No Gaza massacre...
Poverty among Blacks and Hispanics hit record lows..
African American home ownership rose 10%..
Wages for low income and blue collar workers rose 16%..

1.2 million more Construction and manufacturing jobs...

In Feb 2020..........Trump was on 45%............Biden is currently on 33%...

Glad I could help

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

mountain man wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:Aside from the fact that there's an increasing amount of blatant age discrimination entering the general conversation around Biden, whether the substance of that report re. classified document retention is true, or not, the idea that Hur thinks it's even remotely appropriate to talk about Biden's memory in the way he apparently has is a joke. It's so far outside his remit, it's ridiculous.

While not wanting to ignore all of what's apparently included, I think it's reasonable to ask why a Trump appointed DoJ Special Counsel just coincidentally includes incendiary comment re. Biden's apparent memory lapses in his report, knowing full well that Biden's age/memory are a known target for the Republicans. Hmm....

Nothing to do with age discrimination! It's fact there have been so many recorded incidents where he gets confused, doesn't know what's going on etc etc. If he was 60 I'd say the same.

Sure. Maybe we should wait on the regular health checks for the President diagnosing that there's a problem, instead of piling on from a position of zero actual knowledge?

Who cares? America is FUBAR.

You think his Doctor is going to be stupid enough to disclose the findings ????.....When someone does a dodgy back pass at Soccer and the other team score....i don't need to wait for an expert to confirm my opinion on who messed up.....

When a guy keeps falling over........Can't remember current events and looks like a Zombie...I don't need to wait for an expert opinion to tell me all is not well...

Get my drift ???

I get your drift. I bow to your superior ability to make accurate, evidence-based medical diagnoses based on TV and media reporting. Congrats...

Yeah you're right......I stopped a girl from throwing herself off a building yesterday.....I'm just waiting for a professional opinion to tell me if she is depressed or not !!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Trump achieved many good things during his Presidency (before Covid)...

I disagree, but you wouldn't be surprised by that, would you? Anything on the economy that Trump claimed was probably due to Obama fixing the Bush years. Same's going to happen this time if the Dems aren't careful. What other 'successes' (actual, rather than imagined) can Trump claim, other than grifting, sucking up to dictators, and playing golf etc?

7 million new jobs before Covid...Unemployment rate of 3.5% was the lowest in 50 years..
No Russia v Ukraine........No Gaza massacre...
Poverty among Blacks and Hispanics hit record lows..
African American home ownership rose 10%..
Wages for low income and blue collar workers rose 16%..

1.2 million more Construction and manufacturing jobs...

In Feb 2020..........Trump was on 45%............Biden is currently on 33%...

Glad I could help  

Thanks for pointing out how good Obama was .

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

mountain man wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:Aside from the fact that there's an increasing amount of blatant age discrimination entering the general conversation around Biden, whether the substance of that report re. classified document retention is true, or not, the idea that Hur thinks it's even remotely appropriate to talk about Biden's memory in the way he apparently has is a joke. It's so far outside his remit, it's ridiculous.

While not wanting to ignore all of what's apparently included, I think it's reasonable to ask why a Trump appointed DoJ Special Counsel just coincidentally includes incendiary comment re. Biden's apparent memory lapses in his report, knowing full well that Biden's age/memory are a known target for the Republicans. Hmm....

Nothing to do with age discrimination! It's fact there have been so many recorded incidents where he gets confused, doesn't know what's going on etc etc. If he was 60 I'd say the same.

Sure. Maybe we should wait on the regular health checks for the President diagnosing that there's a problem, instead of piling on from a position of zero actual knowledge?

Who cares? America is FUBAR.

You think his Doctor is going to be stupid enough to disclose the findings ????.....When someone does a dodgy back pass at Soccer and the other team score....i don't need to wait for an expert to confirm my opinion on who messed up.....

When a guy keeps falling over........Can't remember current events and looks like a Zombie...I don't need to wait for an expert opinion to tell me all is not well...

Get my drift ???

I get your drift. I bow to your superior ability to make accurate, evidence-based medical diagnoses based on TV and media reporting. Congrats...

Yeah you're right......I stopped a girl from throwing herself off a building yesterday.....I'm just waiting for a professional opinion to tell me if she is depressed or not !!

You don't get it. Stopping someone jumping is a good thing, I'd agree. Your diagnosis of why is nonsense.

Duty281 wrote:

Impressive contribution to discussion....

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Trump achieved many good things during his Presidency (before Covid)...

I disagree, but you wouldn't be surprised by that, would you? Anything on the economy that Trump claimed was probably due to Obama fixing the Bush years. Same's going to happen this time if the Dems aren't careful. What other 'successes' (actual, rather than imagined) can Trump claim, other than grifting, sucking up to dictators, and playing golf etc?

Well it's a very lazy brush to just sweep away Trump's tremendous economic successes (until Covid) by just attributing it to Obama. Those who thought the economy was the most important issue backed Trump by 82-18 in 2020, highlighting how good they believed he was on the issue. I've written before about his achievements:

Made drug prices transparent/health care providers had to disclose their prices publicly, leading to a fall in prescription prices. Expanded oil production and lessened America's dependence on imports. Animal abusers faced tougher consequences.

Enhanced protections for religious freedom. Withdrew from TPP in an effort to preserve American manufacturing, and made promised reforms to NAFTA. NATO countries increased spending on defence due to Trump's involvement.

Wages rose and poverty fell to the lowest rate for about 15-20 years; poverty rates for black and Hispanic Americans actually fell to the lowest rate since data started at one point. Of course Covid may have altered this. Introduced paternal leave for federal workers. The First Step Act, which reformed the justice system and addressed inequalities that black Americans faced. Committed funds to build rural water infrastructure, and fix the problems in Flint, Michigan.

Appointed many LGBT people to prominent posts. I think the first openly-gay American to get a cabinet position happened under Trump, plus there were about half-a-dozen openly gay ambassadors appointed. Lots of tax cuts. Violent crime decreased. ISIS were defeated, the leader was killed in 2019. Made huge steps forward for peace in the Middle East, also didn't start any new wars. Established Space Force as well.

He also signed into law many other good initiatives that were mainly the work of Congress, but that he supported, including for the environment and Native Americans. Bolstered support for Taiwan and Hong Kong. Increased funding for historically black colleges and universities.

Yeah, I suppose some reasonable things could happen even during his term. Knowing Trump, he absolutely would take credit for it all, even if all he did was sign (in crayon) any legislation into law.

We'll see just how great he is if he gets in later this year. Can't say I'm thrilled at the prospect, but at least the rest of the World are now forearmed that he really is just a narcissist knob.

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Trump achieved many good things during his Presidency (before Covid)...

I disagree, but you wouldn't be surprised by that, would you? Anything on the economy that Trump claimed was probably due to Obama fixing the Bush years. Same's going to happen this time if the Dems aren't careful. What other 'successes' (actual, rather than imagined) can Trump claim, other than grifting, sucking up to dictators, and playing golf etc?

7 million new jobs before Covid...Unemployment rate of 3.5% was the lowest in 50 years..
No Russia v Ukraine........No Gaza massacre...
Poverty among Blacks and Hispanics hit record lows..
African American home ownership rose 10%..
Wages for low income and blue collar workers rose 16%..

1.2 million more Construction and manufacturing jobs...

In Feb 2020..........Trump was on 45%............Biden is currently on 33%...

Glad I could help  

Thanks for pointing out how good Obama was .

Nope, Trump not Obama.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Impressive contribution to discussion....

It's what Biden tweeted earlier. For balance, we'll look at what Trump is saying:

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Trump achieved many good things during his Presidency (before Covid)...

I disagree, but you wouldn't be surprised by that, would you? Anything on the economy that Trump claimed was probably due to Obama fixing the Bush years. Same's going to happen this time if the Dems aren't careful. What other 'successes' (actual, rather than imagined) can Trump claim, other than grifting, sucking up to dictators, and playing golf etc?

7 million new jobs before Covid...Unemployment rate of 3.5% was the lowest in 50 years..
No Russia v Ukraine........No Gaza massacre...
Poverty among Blacks and Hispanics hit record lows..
African American home ownership rose 10%..
Wages for low income and blue collar workers rose 16%..

1.2 million more Construction and manufacturing jobs...

In Feb 2020..........Trump was on 45%............Biden is currently on 33%...

Glad I could help  

Thanks for pointing out how good Obama was .

Can't you do any better than that ??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Trump achieved many good things during his Presidency (before Covid)...

I disagree, but you wouldn't be surprised by that, would you? Anything on the economy that Trump claimed was probably due to Obama fixing the Bush years. Same's going to happen this time if the Dems aren't careful. What other 'successes' (actual, rather than imagined) can Trump claim, other than grifting, sucking up to dictators, and playing golf etc?

7 million new jobs before Covid...Unemployment rate of 3.5% was the lowest in 50 years..
No Russia v Ukraine........No Gaza massacre...
Poverty among Blacks and Hispanics hit record lows..
African American home ownership rose 10%..
Wages for low income and blue collar workers rose 16%..

1.2 million more Construction and manufacturing jobs...

In Feb 2020..........Trump was on 45%............Biden is currently on 33%...

Glad I could help  

Thanks for pointing out how good Obama was .

Can't you do any better than that ??

It's good enough for you. Neither of us are macroeconomists. You think Trump's the bees knees. Fine by me. Says plenty.

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Trump achieved many good things during his Presidency (before Covid)...

I disagree, but you wouldn't be surprised by that, would you? Anything on the economy that Trump claimed was probably due to Obama fixing the Bush years. Same's going to happen this time if the Dems aren't careful. What other 'successes' (actual, rather than imagined) can Trump claim, other than grifting, sucking up to dictators, and playing golf etc?

7 million new jobs before Covid...Unemployment rate of 3.5% was the lowest in 50 years..
No Russia v Ukraine........No Gaza massacre...
Poverty among Blacks and Hispanics hit record lows..
African American home ownership rose 10%..
Wages for low income and blue collar workers rose 16%..

1.2 million more Construction and manufacturing jobs...

In Feb 2020..........Trump was on 45%............Biden is currently on 33%...

Glad I could help  

Thanks for pointing out how good Obama was .

Nope, Trump not Obama.

It may have occurred under Trump, but I'm sure he'd really like to thank the prior administration for getting everything going and allowing him to take any credit going.

Biden -
Job growth, including blue-collar jobs - good
Inflation - not so good, but now way down from its peak
Stock market - up
Economic growth - good
Income growth - bad, see inflation
Exports - good

Another summary here - https://www.recorder.com/my-turn-Grosky-Biden-s-Record-and-Accomplishments-52422040

Issue for Biden there is that even though the headline figures on the economy appear to be good, it's not cutting through with voters.

I was ready for Trump vs Biden II, thought it would be atleast a bit funny. Then Trump said he would encourage Russia to do whatever the hell they wanted to a NATO ally that didnt pay their full contribution, now its not so funny.

Duty281 wrote:Issue for Biden there is that even though the headline figures on the economy appear to be good, it's not cutting through with voters.

Correct. Every time voters are asked about Biden one re-occurring theme is bought up, his age and fitness. Not matter how well or not his Presidency is viewed there is no escaping that.

Samo wrote:I was ready for Trump vs Biden II, thought it would be atleast a bit funny. Then Trump said he would encourage Russia to do whatever the hell they wanted to a NATO ally that didnt pay their full contribution, now its not so funny.

It's just Trump being Trump.....Obama said he would get rid on Guantanimo and then just sat on his backside for 8 years doing diddly.

He doesn't like Nato........There is a House of reps and Senate you know that can stop stupidity...

You don't like Trump.....We get it.

mountain man wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Issue for Biden there is that even though the headline figures on the economy appear to be good, it's not cutting through with voters.

Correct. Every time voters are asked about Biden one re-occurring theme is bought up, his age and fitness. Not matter how well or not his Presidency is viewed there is no escaping that.

It's not cutting through because they are not feeling it......

On the Economy..

Biden 31%
Trump 42%

Half of this poll was taken after Trump's NATO comments..

Trump 37
Biden  34

Kind of always been thus......Foreign affairs generally tend to be of little interest unless it's affecting wallets...

South Carolina primary

Trump 67
Haley 22

Surely getting buried in her home state will be spell the end....

Interesting poll commissioned by Rasmussen who have Biden higher in their approvals than other pollsters..

Who do you respect most as a leader..??

Trump 42
Biden 21
Obama 17
Sanders 5
Hillary 2

Assume that was only Republicans polled then...

mountain man wrote:Assume that was only Republicans polled then...

With Democrats getting a combined score above Trump.....Bless your sweet heart.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Interesting poll commissioned by Rasmussen who have Biden higher in their approvals than other pollsters..

Who do you respect most as a leader..??

Trump  42
Biden   21
Obama 17
Sanders 5
Hillary    2

Says it all, really. He's no leader by any reasonable definition....

I read that -
"Nearly one in five Americans believe the conspiracy theory that Taylor Swift is behind a secret government plot to re-elect President Biden, according to a new poll by Monmouth University.
In results published Wednesday, 46 per cent of respondents said they had heard the conspiracy theory, and 18 per cent said they believed it."

Good ol' US of A.

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Interesting poll commissioned by Rasmussen who have Biden higher in their approvals than other pollsters..

Who do you respect most as a leader..??

Trump  42
Biden   21
Obama 17
Sanders 5
Hillary    2

Says it all, really. He's no leader by any reasonable definition....

Perception is everything in politics....We are in an era where people hate Establishment politicians....

I don't care what any one says......It was a great performance getting the GOP nomination against the GOP machine and defeating Clinton with 80% of the legacy media against him....

Trump is larger than life and people on the right and the hard left (who democrats ignore) are looking for heroes...

I admire Trump even though I don't like him and wouldn't vote for him.

So who will you or would you vote for?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Interesting poll commissioned by Rasmussen who have Biden higher in their approvals than other pollsters..

Who do you respect most as a leader..??

Trump  42
Biden   21
Obama 17
Sanders 5
Hillary    2

Says it all, really. He's no leader by any reasonable definition....

Perception is everything in politics....We are in an era where people hate Establishment politicians....

I don't care what any one says......It was a great performance getting the GOP nomination against the GOP machine and defeating Clinton with 80% of the legacy media against him....

Trump is larger than life and people on the right and the hard left (who democrats ignore) are looking for heroes...

I admire Trump even though I don't like him and wouldn't vote for him.

It's a fair point. Trump's got/getting what he wants, which I guess is a measure of success. His whole career, however, would appear to be one of silver spoon in mouth and extensive lies/grifting/malpractice. If people buy that, then I guess they deserve anything coming their way as a result.

Texas goes blue....if Haley is the Republican candidate. So says the University of Texas:

Trump 48-41 Biden (Trump's lead becomes 9% when Kennedy, West and Stein are included)
Biden 40-31 Haley

The South Carolina primary is on Saturday. Haley's polling around 30% behind Trump, so seems she's set for a thrashing in her home state.