England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes

First topic message reminder :

Well done to Scott Boland, a very tidy job and added precious runs.

Another fantastic day in a fantastic test in a fantastic rivalry in a fantastic sport. Fantastic.

And just as the pattern has been throughout, when one team looked to be taking control, it just got yanked back. And it was Broad yanking it back with a brilliant spell. Labuschagne is the new Warner, as far as Broad's concerned.

174 to get. Seven wickets left. Still favouring Australia, but it'll be interesting to see how the bowling conditions are after the expected rain tomorrow. If they're anything close to what England's top order had to face yesterday, it could be curtains for Australia, but I'm not anticipating it to be that bad.

Will almost certainly be a delayed start. Hopefully the BBC's more pessimistic forecast doesn't come to fruition.

It'll probably go to the wire, that's the way the whole test has been shaping up. Might even be a tied test...

Oh rats ... Duckett throws away a hundred...

I love the aggressive approach ; but when you have the opposition in "hopeful short stuff" mode...just milk it !!!

Letting Australia back into the game.

I think this short barrage is the key to stopping Bazball. England won't stop going for it, and as a result they'll eventually play an aerial shot to one of the many men waiting for it. Difficult to dominate the short ball. Think we'll see it on repeat for this series, now.

That's Duckett gone for 98 and the Aussies back in front.

They are a spinner down and are already miles behind the over rate. Just duck out of the way of bouncers for 30 minutes and break them down.

alfie wrote:Oh rats ... Duckett throws away a hundred...

I love the aggressive approach ; but when you have the opposition in "hopeful short stuff" mode...just milk it !!!

Letting Australia back into the game.

Lots of comments about this, but 'milking it' isn't Bazball.

I guess the nervy bit of being on 98 might have had something to do with that one. But after Pope's dismissal , maybe better to let the bowlers exhaust themselves for a while...

Were only getting singles anyway. Risk/reward needs to be balanced.

Was a fine knock by Duckett , mustn't forget. Deserved a century , really.

No reason "milking it " can't be part of the game plan. And I do wish we could get rid of this silly "BB" term ... They have played much more circumspectly at times so it's not prohibited...

That's the follow on saved anyway

I’ll carry on giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are at the equivalent phase to the white ball team in 2015/2016. Where they’d thrown caution to the wind and adopted a new style - which was clearly working and should be persevered with. But they just needed to combine that with the common sense to bat all 50 overs every now and again, and avoid the 150 all outs.

Oh no ! I give up...

No doubts this time. England have no answer to the barrage, except to give wickets away.

Oh, there are some doubts? Checking the catch...yeah, it's fine.

Batting sensibly isn't part of Bazball. Using the brain isn't part of Bazball. Australia can't keep this barrage up forever, and they're missing Lyon, so why not see out this phase, get Australia tired, then play your shots and force them to adjust? Nah, think England, we'll just blast away.

Just don't understand why they won't rein it in for a bit... They can't keep banging it in short forever or they'll be exhausted. No need to keep taking it on all the time. Pick the ones to hit for heaven's sake !

Especially with Lyon OOA , they had a huge chance to take a grip on the game. Lose one , OK . Even lose two. But for Root to depart from his usual method on top of that ? Madness.

It's a funny sort of day when the English batsman who played in the most orthodox manner - and scored the fastest - is Zac Crawley .

Of course he didn't get the bouncer barrage. Probably will next time ...

Brook nearly follows the others - and he actually tried to hit it down. Marnus can't hang on. But presumably they'll get another chance soon enough as it seems Brook has been drinking the same Red Bull as the rest of them

Very important last half hour or so. One more for Australia tonight and they'll be confident of bowling England out tomorrow morning with a decent lead.

Was going to compliment Stokes' solidity, but Head troubled him in that over.

Duty281 wrote:Batting sensibly isn't part of Bazball. Using the brain isn't part of Bazball. Australia can't keep this barrage up forever, and they're missing Lyon, so why not see out this phase, get Australia tired, then play your shots and force them to adjust? Nah, think England, we'll just blast away.

Silly phases such as that annoy me so much as lots of the tactics in Bazball are extremely smart. To say using your brain isn't a part of it is just false. Batters using the crease as much England have to attack length balls and knock bowlers off a spot is very smart tactically. Attacking change bowlers like they have is really smart. Manipulating the field through hitting boundaries is extremely smart.

As a whole it's got a lot more out of basically the same batting talent as England were getting before. But then comes three dismissals on the bounce to the same tactic like that. Which has come with England well on top and Australia just losing Lyon.

I'm a big fan Stokes adopting a new role as England's most defensive batter now his knee doesn't work!

Very much agree with KC there. Much of the time , they do play smart cricket. Aggressive, sometimes risky ; but still smart.

But when you have your opponents resorting to a bit of a desperation tactic like that , it is probably time to be ruthless and enjoy the advantage you hold. KP was quite happy with Pope trying for a six but just not quite nailing it. I was gutted for Duckett , but do believe he was basically a victim of the nervous nineties.

But with Root - who always finds ways to score anyway ; and had got away with one error - at the crease with Brook , the smart thing was surely to be at least a little selective about which ones to go after ? If they're all getting banged in you are going to get some that are right there to be hammered : don't need to play the same shot to everything .

It's the same as a lot of things they have been getting "nearly" right. Nothing wrong with the philosophy; just the execution. Fair to say this team - which really has improved out of sight - is still a work in progress.

Very well balanced after day two. We'll await the news on Lyon's injury to see if England hold an advantage or not.

278/4. In reply to 416. Reckon any England fan would have bitten your hand off last night if offered this scoreline

Could have been even better of course ! But hey that's England's day and they're back in the contest. And it hasn't been dull...

Even game after two. England might feel as though they gave away a strong position but equally Australia will feel they gave away a similar position this morning

I think Duckett plays the way he has to be successful, but Root is too good to give it away the two times he's been out in this series.

It's a good day in the end. I suppose with the throwing wickets away, of course they weren't good dismissals but these things do happen. I get the sense from some commentary that there's only
a belief that only England do this, but surely Australians are wondering just as much what the hell Head and Green were doing.

Pointing and Hayden getting ready to get stuck into Australia for lacking intensity

Smith says Lyon won't be back this game and potentially longer

Reading the comments posted on this page plus the BBC reporting I am suspecting more are beginning to shift towards duty's viewpoint.  The question is what is "bazzball" and is there a "bazzball light version" ?

I think you see a bazball light version when England have a better selection of talent available ultimately. We've seen most of this group play "traditional" test cricket and largely fail over and over. Might as well lean into what we're actually good at

I've not read BBC HYS much in a while but gave up on it due to the laughably uninformed commentary that made up nearly all of it.

Everything is either great or apocalyptic. Everyone is either a genius on the verge of immortality or they should be retired. It's a lot of folk sticking a finger in the air, seeing where the breeze is blowing today and chucking s*** that way.

A comments section from the Michael Vaughan school of cricketing 'insight' one might say.

The Game stands in parity at the end of D2

Criticized for mistakes, blunders, attitude, medium pace attack and more....Stokes' team yet again has traded blow for blow and holds even ground against a man-for-man superior side...after 7 days of test cricket. They are entertaining for sure & atleast I don't care who wins.

There are 2 potential slippage points, one for each side....barring which it's headed for a single inning shootout.

First Eng could collapse tomm morning within 80 odd runs unable to  check their pulling /hooking impulses....and hand out a 50 run lead

Second Eng draw parity or get a 40 odd lead and Aus collapse to 220ish leaving an easy chase for Eng

If neither side slips to a collapse then it's headed for a single inning shoot out of about ~300 runs.

After getting their bouncer barrage right...I felt in the last 40 minutes Aus deliberately stopped it...like taking a time-out breather
I have no doubt they will resume tomm morning with short-ball leg trap.

I thought commentators made much more out of Lyon's absence than it will be a factor . One of them & Artherton precisely sounded like he couldn't contain his glee at the misfortune of Lyon  & Aus(Schadenfreude).
In remainder of first inning they have 4 strong strapping fast bowlers...and it's time for Mr. Potential Green to bend his back...and Lyon won't be missed.
In the 2nd inning i.e 4 th inning chase when the pitch is worn.....Head,Smith and Labuschagne will be adequate as spinners.

I have seen Smith in early days and he was a decent leg spinning all-rounder as was Labuschagne in UAE in his debt series vs Pak as I recall.
Head is the least skillful of the 3 and held on decently. All three of them will be doing some bowling in the nets.
Todd Murphy whom we saw closely in India.....ain't Lyon....but a very competent replacement should Lyon be forced out for longer

Lyon's absence is mammoth. McGrath in 2005 esque if he's out of the series. And Lyon will certainly be missed in this test, in both innings. To claim Travis Head is an adequate back-up for someone who took nearly 50% of England's wickets in the last test, and who is one of only two bowlers seemingly capable of stemming the run flow, is bizarre.

I actually think Marnus can be a decent part time leg spinner. Head hardly ever bowls anymore though and Smudge was bowling part time offies, almost for a laugh, for Sussex rather than trying to bowl leggies recently. Lyon is a gigantic loss.

It's good to know that one side will get a first innings lead, unless they don't, in which case it will be a 1 innings shootout though.

I'm really not sure about that Steve Smith, reminds me of the Cameron Green. Looks grounded by the left hand before transferred to the right.

king_carlos wrote:I actually think Marnus can be a decent part time leg spinner. Head hardly ever bowls anymore though and Smudge was bowling part time offies, almost for a laugh, for Sussex rather than trying to bowl leggies recently. Lyon is a gigantic loss.

It's good to know that one side will get a first innings lead, unless they don't, in which case it will be a 1 innings shootout though.

Totally with you and Duty about the loss of Lyon.

Yes, that is so good to know. I would never have thought of it.

No name Bertie wrote:Reading the comments posted on this page plus the BBC reporting I am suspecting more are beginning to shift towards duty's viewpoint.  The question is what is "bazzball" and is there a "bazzball light version" ?

Can't beat the BBC comments. There's usually at least one or two a day asking why a player who's actually retired isn't in the team

VTR wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:Reading the comments posted on this page plus the BBC reporting I am suspecting more are beginning to shift towards duty's viewpoint.  The question is what is "bazzball" and is there a "bazzball light version" ?

Can't beat the BBC comments. There's usually at least one or two a day asking why a player who's actually retired isn't in the team

I always read the BBC comments out of a sort of morbid curiosity. Really are a lot of trolls/ignoramuses/opinionated idiots on there ... and just occasionally one or two sensible remarks from people who have actually played the game to a decent level. Generally get my quota of laughs for the day...

Loss of Lyon is huge for Australia . If he's a long term injury they have a serious problem as I don't think Murphy is ready to fill his role - though at least he is a like for like replacement so they don't have to call McGill out of retirement

Seriously for this match it is likely to be telling in the England second innings. And for the rest of this one if England can avoid collapsing rapidly in the morning : all that short stuff will have taken it out of the pace men , even if they haven't yet had to bowl a massive number of overs.

That was my main annoyance over gifting three wickets . Even sharing the load , the four pace bowlers weren't going to be able to keep that up for too long , so I thought Root in particular would have been better advised to wait a few overs and then cash in. It is a fine line , this full on aggressive choice - but Stokes seemed to get it right in those late overs.

Anyway by and large the attacking game seems to have worked for England more often than not so we will just have to take the odd bit of rough with the smooth ,eh ?

Though perhaps guildford will share my wistful thoughts that Root perhaps could more often consider playing a bit of Gomes to all the Richards/Richardson/Lloyd types around him

No name Bertie wrote:Reading the comments posted on this page plus the BBC reporting I am suspecting more are beginning to shift towards duty's viewpoint ....

I now realize this is an ambiguous statement.  The meaning I had intended was: "Reading the comments posted on this page and reading the sports articles written by BBC reporters and BBC pundits I am suspecting .... "

Basically looking at the BBC websites sports headlines the England team were strongly criticized for declaring on day one of the first test and the headlines after yesterdays play was along the lines of "England nearly throw it away after a good start"  then reading the article they say England had a reckless 6 over spell when they tried to throw the game away ....

alfie wrote:Loss of Lyon is huge for Australia . If he's a long term injury they have a serious problem as I don't think Murphy is ready to fill his role - though at least he is a like for like replacement so they don't have to call McGill out of retirement

Seriously for this match it is likely to be telling in the England second innings. And for the rest of this one if England can avoid collapsing rapidly in the morning : all that short stuff will have taken it out of the pace men , even if they haven't yet had to bowl a massive number of overs.

That was my main annoyance over gifting three wickets . Even sharing the load , the four pace bowlers weren't going to be able to keep that up for too long , so I thought Root in particular would have been better advised to wait a few overs and then cash in. It is a fine line , this full on aggressive choice - but Stokes seemed to get it right in those late overs.

Anyway by and large the attacking game seems to have worked for England more often than not so we will just have to take the odd bit of rough with the smooth ,eh ?

Though perhaps guildford will share my wistful thoughts that Root perhaps could more often consider playing a bit of Gomes to all the Richards/Richardson/Lloyd types around him

Many thanks, Alfie. A beautiful, absolutely beautiful set up. Selfless too. Putting in the hard yards of a Tongue to allow me to finish things off like a Robinson with the tail.

The great thing about Gomes is that he wasn't a great player but an immensely valuable one. He was an intelligent and patient player who had the ability to knuckle down in support of his more illustrious teammates. That is where his value lay to that all conquering side.

Root of course is a great player and our stand out batter. It shouldn't have been but perhaps that was part of the problem yesterday. A reluctance to rein himself in and just bat solidly so as to take advantage of the easier bowling that inevitably was coming up. Attacking shots are entertaining but you can play more of them and importantly to greater effect if you take stock of the situation and sometimes hold back.

A concern I have about England's current approach is an apparent desire to win quickly. A Test match is normally scheduled to last five days. Use every session of every day if you need to. A needless rush to win quickly is just as likely to result in a prompt defeat as victory. I was disappointed that Root didn't recognise that yesterday and bat accordingly. Gomes would have done.

Yes, Guildford, he's obviously under the same instructions as the rest of the team to play a bit of a more high risk - high reward game, which goes against his natural sensible and self-preserving instincts.

I had to retire around Tea here and listen to proceedings on the radio (one was an English bloke, I don't have his name but I'll post it up when I hear it again tonight) and he was completely irate at the mode of those later dismissals after 188/1. Especially Pope... he was furious with him and also Harry Brook late in the day. Woke me up a few times!

He sort of excused Root but did mention that after he'd been given the no-ball reprieve he should have reined in his shots a bit. Too good a player to be forced to push things along unnecessarily. So I tend to agree with you and that commentator.

Joey - what's the reaction Down Under to Lyon and what happens next? Cheers.

guildfordbat wrote:Joey - what's the reaction Down Under to Lyon and what happens next? Cheers.

Obviously a huge blow but no panic as yet.

Smith has said Murphy is bowling well in the nets but as Alfie says - it's a big step up. There's something about Murphy though. He seems an unflappable type and obviously has confidence in his own abilities and would be itching to get out there on the big stage.

Looking at those pictures of Lyon on crutches this morning I reckon Murphy will be on the big stage next week...

Extraordinarily bad luck for Lyon - it looked an innocuous run in to pick up the ball when he felt it go. And ironic that after 100 Tests without injury it should strike him now !

Great chance for England this morning. They have to take full advantage of Lyon's absence. England haven't had much luck recently with injuries outside of games, but in-game they've had plenty of fortune, with de Grandhomme and Jamieson injuring themselves mid-test last year, and now Lyon. Lyon, as well, previously a phenomenal record of fitness, bringing up 100 tests in a row, yet now breaking down.

Lyon is on crutches, which does look bad, but must be remembered Robinson was on crutches a couple of weeks out from the start of the series, and he's played a full part so far.

However, it must also be remembered, in terms of the game, that England still trail by 138 and Australia are only two wickets away from exposing the tail, so an inspired spell this morning could see England floored pretty quickly.  England have a proper chance in this test because of Lyon's injury, they mustn't let it go to waste.

Oh dear.

Incidentally England haven't been immune to mid-game injury either : Moeen's finger last week was significant - though Pope's shoulder hasn't stopped him hooking

Livingstone broke down in Pakistan. And before that - last Ashes - Buttler and Bairstow both got injured in Sydney , though they did manage to bat on.

Happens a lot.

Dream start to day three for Australia !

Sounds like Lyon's out for the series.

Brook gone now. Really good from Australia, they've limited England heavily this morning and are forcing the errors. They've cracked Bazball, at least for now.

123 the lead, the tail + Bairstow to get England as close as possible.

16-0-85-3.

That's Starc and my nose in PJ's points trough!

So that last 100 runs was 10 overs slower than the 2nd 100 from England.
Putting the brakes on with the bouncer barrage seems to be working for now.

Just the first hour Australia would have hoped for

Good bowling , excellent fielding - two wickets and gave nothing away.

England just might be thinking that they'd have been better off playing just a little more conservatively last night so they would have had the freedom to play shots this morning... But that is history now.

Game very much on now...

Well, that's a disappointing dismissal from Bairstow. Completely stuck in the crease and spoons it straight to Cummins, like catching practice. Aussies should have a decent lead from here. Pretty tame from England this morning. Superb chance and they're letting it slip.

And another ! Oh dear ...

Think WINVIZ can correct that "England favourites " nonsense they've had up despite the collapse .

Looking like a substantial deficit now