England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes

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If Pope can't play I'd probably prefer Foakes coming in, taking the gloves, myself. Maybe:

1.Crawley 2.Duckett 3.Brook 4.Root 5.Bairstow 6.Stokes (c) 7.Foakes (wk)

It means a rejigging of the order but gets better players in the XI than Lawrence at 3 IMO. Particularly when I'm not that convinced by Lawrence against higher pace. Given the 15 man squad that isn't on the cards though.

If Wood is genuinely fit I'd like his pace in the attack but would probably ere towards the seam heavy attack again if the 4  below are good to go:

8.Woakes 9.Broad 10.Wood 11.Tongue

If Wood isn't fit then:

8.Moeen 9.Woakes 10.Broad 11.Tongue

Which does have a lot of batting depth on the upside.

Haven't been able to follow up that Warner wicket. Marnus got a bit lucky with one that ballooned up off his bat and fell safely in the unmanned gully area...and generally the bowling has been pretty good. But as the day wears on I fear England are going to miss the fourth seam bowler...and it's hard to see Moeen having any impact.
Doesn't help they've had the usual " rest between innings " of about two sessions...

With Warner still battling a bit against his nemesis, and Marnus a bit off his game , how vital Khawaja has been for Australia in this series ! He's building a wall again here as tea approaches.

Think the draw is starting to come into view with the rain forecast. Saturday and Monday look very bleak, even Sunday might have a drop or two.

But does look as though England are in for the long haul with this innings.

Duty281 wrote:Think the draw is starting to come into view with the rain forecast. Saturday and Monday look very bleak, even Sunday might have a drop or two.

But does look as though England are in for the long haul with this innings.

Thought that "draw" word was outlawed , Duty ? Reckon it would take a lot of lost time to stop a result here - unless Australia were to take complete control with the bat and settle for batting England right out of the match , knowing that would seal the trophy.

Don't think they will be in any hurry this evening anyway. Grind away...

Although when Moeen comes on the temptation may be irresistible

Warner.

Turning into Warne/Cullinan levels of bunnyship of an established batsman.

Been away watching Le Tour for a bit...nothing happened since tea ? Lead 71 and no more wickets , eh. Not sure how England are going to make inroads with their only three serious bowler attack.

Suppose at some point we might be in for more short short short stuff with mobs of boundary riders. Can hardly wait ...

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Think the draw is starting to come into view with the rain forecast. Saturday and Monday look very bleak, even Sunday might have a drop or two.

But does look as though England are in for the long haul with this innings.

Thought that "draw" word was outlawed , Duty ?  Reckon it would take a lot of lost time to stop a result here - unless Australia were to take complete control with the bat and settle for batting England right out of the match , knowing that would seal the trophy.

Don't think they will be in any hurry this evening anyway.  Grind away...

Although when Moeen comes on the temptation may be irresistible

Yep, definitely a grind. Best batting conditions of the test, England weakened, Labuschagne desperate to make a significant score (no century in about 20 innings), and Geoffrey Khawaja won't be giving anything away cheaply.

That was a very poor over from Moeen. Lucky to only concede one boundary.

Mo bowled some real rubbish in that over, lucky to only go for one boundary.

Never knew Guildford and Soul were the same person.

Aussies manfully resisting any temptation to try and thump Moeen into the stands... Can simply sit and wait for the pies , eh ? Called milking the cow...

Wood battering away t'other end but no joy yet. Not sure I will be staying up to 3.30 am if the game meanders along like this for much longer. Though perhaps the thought of maybe seeing Harry Brook bowl a spell will keep me interested

Another drop from Bairstow. A tough one, but won't make him feel any better.

But once again a drop is followed by a wicket. Labuschagne taking a gamble against Moeen and picking out the fielder. He's really thrown away quite a simple chance to register a big score.

Yeah Jonny's day/week/month not getting any better. Was indeed difficult, diving to his left ...but on his good days he probably takes it.

What's this now ? My stream died for a moment and now I see Marnus walking off ? Did Moeen strike ? Replay please ...

Wow. Marnus did rather throw it away there. He's not had much joy this series.

Just need another eight of those moments then...

always said that mo ali should be in this side

And here's one of them! Moeen's 200 wicket...and Smith is gone !

This game keeps on giving...

Now Smith with a tailenders shot, England suddenly on a roll. Not a 100th test to remember for Smith, and he's having words with Bairstow as he goes off.

Can't get too excited of course. Still seven wickets needed and surely they aren't going to keep committing suicide. But again , keeps the game from slipping into one of those soporific third innings grinds just yet.
Don't suppose Wood can keep going much longer in this spell . Will need something from Woakes I guess.

Incidentally that was a great overhead take from Bairstow. He's ironically made some excellent saves - when there isn't any bat involved! Pity he can't hang on to the wicket taking ones...

GB

Mark Butcher just made a comment about Sylvester Clarke and Martin Bicknell, can't imagine the pair played that much together?

Khawaja still has one end locked up . Head hasn't gone pyrotechnic yet , and surely Marsh can't play another of those first innings knocks . But there really isn't any hurry for Australia and the workload on the remaining fit bowlers is probably going to remove any chance of a collapse like yesterday's .

Ah ...but Khawaja is gone ! Jonny holds on to this one and Woakes strikes ! Guess I am staying up to 3.30 after all

Good'un from Woakes. Khawaja stuck again and nicking behind. Simple chance, even for England!

Inspired fightback over the past 50 minutes, since Labuschagne's rush of blood.

Time for Marsh/Head once more.

Last half hour. One more for England tonight and they're favourites...

Have to nip Marsh out quickly. He is on a high and if he gets loose he can take the game away in a flash...two fours in that Broad over already. Danger signals for England.

130 lead. Think England are still trailing but they are at least hanging in at the moment. They chased some seemingly tough targets last year but not against this opponent...

Five , six more overs tonight ?

I would have appealed for obstructing the field there.

Soul Requiem wrote:GB

Mark Butcher just made a comment about Sylvester Clarke and Martin Bicknell, can't imagine the pair played that much together?

Hi Soul - I missed that from Butcher as Mrs Bat stole the remote control for the tennis.

They would have played together although, as you suggest, not too much. Clarke played a full decade for Surrey from '79 to '89. Bicknell debuted for Surrey as a 17 year old in '86 but it was mainly during the '90s and early 2000s that he prospered. He actually played for 20 years until retiring in 2006 when he was 37. It's probably because Bicknell was playing so long after Clarke had left Surrey that you don't associate the two of them together.

Why did Butcher mention them please?

So Australia still edging it at close of day. But not out of sight as they might have expected to be at lunchtime. I have absolutely no idea what sort of fourth innings target would be too big for England and I guess it would depend a lot on the conditions. 142 and six wickets in hand...so they won't want to lose 6/23 again

But at least we once again have the enticing prospect of another day that just might go either way...

Got to love Test Cricket

guildfordbat wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:GB

Mark Butcher just made a comment about Sylvester Clarke and Martin Bicknell, can't imagine the pair played that much together?

Hi Soul - I missed that from Butcher as Mrs Bat stole the remote control for the tennis.

They would have played together although, as you suggest, not too much. Clarke played a full decade for Surrey from '79 to '89. Bicknell debuted for Surrey as a 17 year old in '86 but it was mainly during the '90s and early 2000s that he prospered. He actually played for 20 years until retiring in 2006 when he was 37. It's probably because Bicknell was playing so long after Clarke had left Surrey that you don't associate the two of them together.

Why did Butcher mention them please?

He equated Mo getting the wickets of Smith and Labuschagne due to the pace of Wood at the other end to Clarke and Bicknell.

Soul Requiem wrote:GB

Mark Butcher just made a comment about Sylvester Clarke and Martin Bicknell, can't imagine the pair played that much together?

Clarke finished with Surrey in the '89 summer whilst Bicknell debuted in '86 so there was a decent overlap for the two albeit at the opposite ends of their careers with Bicknell likely not playing many games early on.

Clarke was a fascinating cricket and character with an ultimately sad tinge to his cricketing career due to the rebel tour and a tragic early death.

I wrote a post earlier this summer (I think it was that recent anyway...) about Clarke being instrumental in the cutter coming back into the game. He realised he couldn't bowl genuine pace for the volume of overs that CC demanded of an overseas pro in those days. He could though bowl cutters at a decent lick whilst getting proper revolutions on the ball, deviation from the pitch. Early leading bowlers such as Syd Barnes were 'combination' bowlers who mixed pace and spin due to uncovered wickets. Players such as Clarke then did it for self preservation during long, attritional seasons. Now we are seeing T20 bowlers such as the Fizz, Benny Howell and Pat Brown do it to avoid being hit into space. It's fascinating how the game repeats itself with these 'new' skills coming back from the dead for completely different reasons.

Oops beaten to it by Guildford!

No further breakthrough for England. Lead of 142, six wickets left.

Very finely balanced going into tomorrow. Australia's last few innings have seen sharp collapses - 240/4 to 263ao here in the first; 187/2 to 279ao and 316/3 to 416ao in the last test - so they should be extra focused on ensuring that doesn't continue, while England will have the confidence they can roll through.

All about this early partnership tomorrow. Give Head and Marsh one session and that lead will fly over 250, but break it early and there's not much batting to come.

I'd say Australia are narrowly ahead, though it's very finely poised. Hope the weather isn't too bad tomorrow.

England hanging in there, yet again, in no small amount thanks to Moeen Ali taking out the 2 best test bats in the world out for not much, and Broad getting Warner for the millionth time. And of course the immovable Khawaja was moved by Woakes just when he was really bedding in...
Another sensational innings from Ben Stokes, helped on by some poor captaincy from Pat Cummins got England closer than they seemed at one point. Stokes was taking Murphy appart. And with 9 down, Cummins should have kept on Boland or Starc rather than playing a rather unnecessary ego battle with Stokes. Murphy and Cummins may have won the battle after a lot of damage, but if England pull off another of those chases, then that win might be one of the reason why they may end up losing the war.
Cummins though, was absolutely brilliant with the ball. May have gone at Starc-like economy rate but kept producing some absolute rippers. While Starc was brilliantly and rather uncharacteristically very economic and came up with a couple of crucial strikes to back his skipper up.

With the weather forecast I'd say Australia are ahead. Coming on and off whilst chasing is much better for the bowling side than batting. Difficult for batters to settle and bowlers can bowl short, sharp spells with rest. Overcast means poorer visibility for batters too of course.

It's once again a finely poised Test though. As Duty says just two wickets in the morning could cause a collapse. The remaining Aussie batters (and two bowlers who can bat) all score fairly quickly usually so England will need wickets early or the chase will get up above 250 quickly.

I'm really looking forward to the point of the chase where I'm watching Joe Root and Ben Stokes bat thinking that if either gets out soon it'll feel hopeless.

Moeen Ali joins Graham Swann as the only English offspinner to have taken 200 test wickets. In fact, other than Swann and Underwood, how many English spinners have taken 200 test wickets? And on a day wherein Bigmouth Robinson went down as usual, Moeen stepped up, and bowled at an economic rate of 2 per over! Both Smith and Labuschagne played really poor shots to gave their wickets away. But that's what Moeen was good at his peak, ask the Indian batters, they really thought he could be hit out of the continent itself, only to find Moeen did enough to ensure they would find the fielder, time and time again.
Moeen wouldn't rank among the top 50 spinners to have played test cricket, but he's the best for England in the post-Swann era.
He's not going to offer the kind of control that he did today more often than not. He's surely well pass his prime. These days he bats like a tailender which is a pitty. He doesn't have much more left in the tank. But his overall record for England certainly demands a bit more respect for him, even from fans and supporters as well.

Soul Requiem wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:GB

Mark Butcher just made a comment about Sylvester Clarke and Martin Bicknell, can't imagine the pair played that much together?

Hi Soul - I missed that from Butcher as Mrs Bat stole the remote control for the tennis.

They would have played together although, as you suggest, not too much. Clarke played a full decade for Surrey from '79 to '89. Bicknell debuted for Surrey as a 17 year old in '86 but it was mainly during the '90s and early 2000s that he prospered. He actually played for 20 years until retiring in 2006 when he was 37. It's probably because Bicknell was playing so long after Clarke had left Surrey that you don't associate the two of them together.

Why did Butcher mention them please?

He equated Mo getting the wickets of Smith and Labuschagne due to the pace of Wood at the other end to Clarke and Bicknell.

Cheers, Soul. As Carlos said, there was some overlap but not that much.

The example I always think of from my Surrey watching of getting wickets at the other end is Saqlain & Salisbury. So many of the latter's wickets were due to batters' relief at not facing Saqy and loss of concentration as they attempted to belt his spin partner out of the ground. Every Oval regular knew at the time of Solly's call up to the England Test side that he wouldn't cut it without his Pakistani teammate bowling at the other end.

As Carlos also said, Clarke was a fascinating but ultimately tragic figure passing away as a net bowler in his native Barbados aged only 44. Surrey attempted to pay some form of tribute to him recently by naming a new bar at the Oval after him. Somewhat ironic as his strong liking for strong rum was instrumental in the loss of his Surrey contract and ultimately his life.

Duty281 wrote:No further breakthrough for England. Lead of 142, six wickets left.

Very finely balanced going into tomorrow. Australia's last few innings have seen sharp collapses - 240/4 to 263ao here in the first; 187/2 to 279ao and 316/3 to 416ao in the last test - so they should be extra focused on ensuring that doesn't continue, while England will have the confidence they can roll through.

All about this early partnership tomorrow. Give Head and Marsh one session and that lead will fly over 250, but break it early and there's not much batting to come.

I'd say Australia are narrowly ahead, though it's very finely poised. Hope the weather isn't too bad tomorrow.

Pretty much with you there Duty although I do think Starc and Cummins have some runs in them. Imo a combined 60 isn't a ludicrous possibility and would edge Australia closer to 3-0. There again, maybe I'm just thinking of PJ's comp!

Good little final session for England that - Moeen did a fine job holding up an end, even if Smith/Marnus rather gifted him their wickets.

Nice fightback from England after that poor first session. Just about clinging on in this game, and the series.

Reckon anything over 250 and Aussies are favs to defend, wicket clearly isn't as good for batting as was made out initially.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Good little final session for England that - Moeen did a fine job holding up an end, even if Smith/Marnus rather gifted him their wickets.

Nice fightback from England after that poor first session. Just about clinging on in this game, and the series.

Reckon anything over 250 and Aussies are favs to defend, wicket clearly isn't as good for batting as was made out initially.

Let's settle on anything over 263.

guildfordbat wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:GB

Mark Butcher just made a comment about Sylvester Clarke and Martin Bicknell, can't imagine the pair played that much together?

Hi Soul - I missed that from Butcher as Mrs Bat stole the remote control for the tennis.

...

Mainly for Carlos although Alfie and Olly will surely identify.

Mrs Bat still hogging the remote control and the tennis. I've just come in from watering a few plants to hear Henman declare, ''You can't win Wimbledon in the first week but you can lose it.''

Mrs Bat knows my Bingo Cricket card even better than Olly going and saying, ''You would appear then - don't start!''.

guildfordbat wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:GB

Mark Butcher just made a comment about Sylvester Clarke and Martin Bicknell, can't imagine the pair played that much together?

Hi Soul - I missed that from Butcher as Mrs Bat stole the remote control for the tennis.

...

Mainly for Carlos although Alfie and Olly will surely identify.

Mrs Bat still hogging the remote control and the tennis. I've just come in from watering a few plants to hear Henman declare, ''You can't win Wimbledon in the first week but you can lose it.''

Mrs Bat knows my Bingo Cricket card even better than Olly going and saying, ''You would appear then - don't start!''.

I heard that from Henman with it on in the background and immediately made the same connection and smiled! 

I still think it's a good batting wicket to be honest, it's just we've seen some excellent quick bowling and some dim dismissals.

But I do think Australia will be confident of defending anything above 250. Cummins and Starc in fine form, very inconsistent form shown by the English batting, as well as that long tail, plus conditions should be a lot more overcast over the next few days. If we get some rain it might even slow the outfield up! Wouldn't that be something.

Moeen saying England can get 260, Cook saying 270, while Cummins wants something over 300. Headingley is the home of big chases, after all...

Ali the Magnificent spun a web of flight, loop, spin and deceived World's top-2 batters......at the same time holding one end tightly controlled.
He has more role to play in this game with both ball and bat....and could be captaining Eng in T4 by the look of Stoke's fitness.
Stokes himself continued his Superman form and until he falls in the second inning...even with one wicket in hand and 100 runs to go....Eng will still believe they a chance.
He will produce another blitz and Eng might still fall short......he has used up all his quota of divine blessings I  think.

I won't have given Toddy Murphy as many overs against Stokes.....but Cummins & Murphy would claim redemption.....redemption that cost them ~20 runs I would argue.....and that's a game changing margin in the context of this game.

When you look at Robinson's exhaustion and Wood's struggle to be fit......one has to take a bow and applaud Cummins' fitness with 4 tests in a row including WTC final.

142 on.....you'd back Aus to have min 240....but with Head, Marsh, Carrey,Cummin, Starc still in hand and Murphy +Boland showing they can do double digit score.....Aus could do 340 also.

Eng could lose the 240 chase  by 50 odd and win the 340 chase by 2 wickets.
Game is poised as "Anything is Possible"....and in any case will finish during the weekend.

KP_fan wrote:Ali the Magnificent spun a web of flight, loop, spin and deceived World's top-2 batters......at the same time holding one end tightly controlled.
He has more role to play in this game with both ball and bat....and could be captaining Eng in T4 by the look of Stoke's fitness.

This didn't actually happen, KP_Fan. I'm assuming you didn't watch today's proceedings, because if you had you would have known both wickets were gifts, not the result of top-quality bowling. Here's Cricinfo's commentary on both:

25.2 top edge sweep is caught by Brook at deep midwicket! Labuschagne gives his wicket away. Tossed up on middle, he plays a very lazy, wristy swat sweep, one that has brought him down before, it flies in the air and Brook just shuffles to his left from deep forward square and takes a well judged catch diving forward 68/2

27.4 whipped straight to midwicket! Another gift for Moeen and he has 200 Test scalps! Tossed up on middle, he strides out and clips a catch knee high to Duckett at midwicket! An absolute gift. 72/3

Credit for his control, yes, although Australia missed out on several boundary balls he bowled.

Before you proclaim Moeen to be the player of the series, kindly remember his series average with the ball stands at 55.6 and with the bat 19.33. He's working with roughly the same figures that Cameron Green, who you deride, is. Moeen's had a half-decent day with the ball, certainly not with the bat, and is still struggling to justify his place, never mind be magnificent.

At least this never ending squabble about Moeen between Duty and KPf has given me something from the summer I'll look back on with even less fondness than England's collapse at Lords.

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Ali the Magnificent spun a web of flight, loop, spin and deceived World's top-2 batters......at the same time holding one end tightly controlled.
He has more role to play in this game with both ball and bat....and could be captaining Eng in T4 by the look of Stoke's fitness.

This didn't actually happen, KP_Fan. I'm assuming you didn't watch today's proceedings, because if you had you would have known both wickets were gifts, not the result of top-quality bowling. Here's Cricinfo's commentary on both:

25.2 top edge sweep is caught by Brook at deep midwicket! Labuschagne gives his wicket away. Tossed up on middle, he plays a very lazy, wristy swat sweep, one that has brought him down before, it flies in the air and Brook just shuffles to his left from deep forward square and takes a well judged catch diving forward 68/2

27.4 whipped straight to midwicket! Another gift for Moeen and he has 200 Test scalps! Tossed up on middle, he strides out and clips a catch knee high to Duckett at midwicket! An absolute gift. 72/3

Credit for his control, yes, although Australia missed out on several boundary balls he bowled.

Before you proclaim Moeen to be the player of the series, kindly remember his series average with the ball stands at 55.6 and with the bat 19.33. He's working with roughly the same figures that Cameron Green, who you deride, is. Moeen's had a half-decent day with the ball, certainly not with the bat, and is still struggling to justify his place, never mind be magnificent.

A bowlers doesn't  always get wickets with great deliveries only.
Often times he gets wickets due to a very skillful & tight spell that sucks the batsmen into ordinary strokes.
You have been watching cricket for long enuf to know that...don't you

Ali spun and got bounce and drift & was extremely frugal & lured the greatest two ...one into a false sweep and the other into a false defensive, nothing prod.

I talked about Ali's spell yesterday only...not the series figures.
You brought those up & its called creating a Strawman

I would say that Ali's wickets were not from good bowling or pressure built by him, more just incredibly ordinary shots.

I would suggest that the Aussies were more just trying to slow the pace down and try and bat as long as possible as only a draw would see them retain the Ashes.

Sky team mentioned the lack of intent when running between the wickets yesterday, it was incredibly noticeable and the Aussies must have left close to 15/20 runs out there by turning down runs.

Anyone who knows what they are talking about also credits Wood from the other end with creating pressure. I think Labuschagne in particular was an early attempt to hit Moeen out of the attack, that went very badly wrong. But it was the right tactic with England down 2 pace bowlers

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Ali the Magnificent spun a web of flight, loop, spin and deceived World's top-2 batters......at the same time holding one end tightly controlled.
He has more role to play in this game with both ball and bat....and could be captaining Eng in T4 by the look of Stoke's fitness.

This didn't actually happen, KP_Fan. I'm assuming you didn't watch today's proceedings, because if you had you would have known both wickets were gifts, not the result of top-quality bowling. Here's Cricinfo's commentary on both:

25.2 top edge sweep is caught by Brook at deep midwicket! Labuschagne gives his wicket away. Tossed up on middle, he plays a very lazy, wristy swat sweep, one that has brought him down before, it flies in the air and Brook just shuffles to his left from deep forward square and takes a well judged catch diving forward 68/2

27.4 whipped straight to midwicket! Another gift for Moeen and he has 200 Test scalps! Tossed up on middle, he strides out and clips a catch knee high to Duckett at midwicket! An absolute gift. 72/3

Credit for his control, yes, although Australia missed out on several boundary balls he bowled.

Before you proclaim Moeen to be the player of the series, kindly remember his series average with the ball stands at 55.6 and with the bat 19.33. He's working with roughly the same figures that Cameron Green, who you deride, is. Moeen's had a half-decent day with the ball, certainly not with the bat, and is still struggling to justify his place, never mind be magnificent.

A bowlers doesn't  always get wickets with great deliveries only.
Often times he gets wickets due to a very skillful & tight spell that sucks the batsmen into ordinary strokes.
You have been watching cricket for long enuf to know that...don't you

Ali spun and got bounce and drift & was extremely frugal & lured the greatest two ...one into a false sweep and the other into a false defensive, nothing prod.

I talked about Ali's spell yesterday only...not the series figures.
You brought those up & its called creating a Strawman

A strawman would be if I ignored your argument, which I didn't. Also, Smith's dismissal was not a 'false defensive, nothing prod', which further shows you didn't watch proceedings.

Some rain around Headingley this morning, but might be OK for a 11:00 start.

Hear me out with this idea - Moeen should bat 3 in the 2nd dig,

Not because he’s suddenly amazing, but he’s basically going to fluff around for what 20 (34) wherever he bats, but this way we get Brook and Bairstow into more advantageous and natural batting positions for Brook (5) and Bairstow (7 - when keeping, allow him some time to rest). Bit of a sacrificial lamb type move

Currently set to rain until around 12, so perhaps play at 1, or maybe just a bit earlier?

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Hear me out with this idea - Moeen should bat 3 in the 2nd dig,

Not because he’s suddenly amazing, but he’s basically going to fluff around for what 20 (34) wherever he bats, but this way we get Brook and Bairstow into more advantageous and natural batting positions for Brook (5) and Bairstow (7 - when keeping, allow him some time to rest). Bit of a sacrificial lamb type move

Moeen's batting like a tailender these days. Promoting him up the order can't be the worst option for England at this stage, considering Brook can't even defend for his life, but can be lethal when he goes for it. Such an approach has greater chances of coming off at 5 than at 3. Besides, Mo might try to bat like a batter up the order. Remember Ravindra Jadeja, prior to his batting turnaround, used to just slog everything, coming in at 8 or lower. But after he started batting consistently in the top 7, his entire approach to batting changed. Ali is at a different stage to Jadeja at his turnaround time. Besides, he has batted at all positions from 1 to 8 and one of the reasons that put him off was the regular messing about. But now when he's back with nothing to lose, may not be a bad call to push him up and see. Not likely to be worse for Moeen, likely to be better for Brook and Bairstow.