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England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes

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Post by king_carlos Sun 02 Jul 2023, 11:24 pm

First topic message reminder :

If Pope can't play I'd probably prefer Foakes coming in, taking the gloves, myself. Maybe:

1.Crawley 2.Duckett 3.Brook 4.Root 5.Bairstow 6.Stokes (c) 7.Foakes (wk)

It means a rejigging of the order but gets better players in the XI than Lawrence at 3 IMO. Particularly when I'm not that convinced by Lawrence against higher pace. Given the 15 man squad that isn't on the cards though.

If Wood is genuinely fit I'd like his pace in the attack but would probably ere towards the seam heavy attack again if the 4  below are good to go:

8.Woakes 9.Broad 10.Wood 11.Tongue

If Wood isn't fit then:

8.Moeen 9.Woakes 10.Broad 11.Tongue

Which does have a lot of batting depth on the upside.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 11:14 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Hear me out with this idea - Moeen should bat 3 in the 2nd dig,

Not because he’s suddenly amazing, but he’s basically going to fluff around for what 20 (34) wherever he bats, but this way we get Brook and Bairstow into more advantageous and natural batting positions for Brook (5) and Bairstow (7 - when keeping, allow him some time to rest). Bit of a sacrificial lamb type move

That's actually not a ad idea to be fair. thumbsup

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Post by king_carlos Sat 08 Jul 2023, 11:18 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Hear me out with this idea - Moeen should bat 3 in the 2nd dig,

Not because he’s suddenly amazing, but he’s basically going to fluff around for what 20 (34) wherever he bats, but this way we get Brook and Bairstow into more advantageous and natural batting positions for Brook (5) and Bairstow (7 - when keeping, allow him some time to rest). Bit of a sacrificial lamb type move

Reverse the order I say. Woody and the nighthawk up top.

It's a very rare occasion where I sort of agree with the idea though given how much better England's middle order are coming in later. Theoretically it could make a really good attack revert to the short stuff early, rough the new ball up.

Usually I'm the killjoy with these discussions as well. Woakes opening and Foakes up the order are common bonfires I've decided to p*ss on during England's batting travails. When you number crunch (as I'm lonely enough to have done much of) the difference in averages between batting in the lower middle order to top order is gigantic. Good lower order players tend to be limited. Woakes is a terrific cricketer but is even poorer against the short ball than Mo for instance, it just isn't mentioned as often. Whilst Foakes is a batter who can be kept on strike too easily to really thrive higher up the order against good attacks. Though I'd certainly recall him at 7 and keeping now we've seen where Jonny's keeping is post injury.

Longer term it's Stokes batting position that I can't decide on. As skipper and a genuine bowler I think batting at 6 is absolutely a good call. If he isn't an all-rounder then I think he is the best suited to 3 out of the middle order batters.

3.Stokes 4.Root 5.Bairstow 6.Brook 7.Foakes (wk)

That looks better to me from the batting and keeping perspective if Stokes isn't bowling. It leaves the enduring issue that England's seam attack usually looks uncomfortable without a 4th option. Which means one less batter or no spinner. Neither ideal.

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 11:28 am

Moeen actually batted OK in the first innings . Just pushed the ball around , didn't try anything silly ... until he did. Was a poor dismissal , after getting away with a similar shot a few balls earlier. But he didn't look hopeless before then.

How he'd cope with three I don't know. And I can't see him making fifty much less a hundred. But he's not a rabbit.

As to his bowling : very mixed bag. Some bland but basically steady ; some right old rubbish ; and a couple of very good balls. Wasn't good bowling so much for the wickets - more Wood's pressure from the other end. But he's overall done a decent job and we should acknowledge that. Never mind KP_fan's wind-ups Smile

Rain continuing ? Could be one of those days...

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Post by msp83 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 11:41 am

Rain's having a say at the moment. Headingley doesn't have the best drainage system, suggests Cricinfo. Could be a long, frustrating day...

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Post by GSC Sat 08 Jul 2023, 11:49 am

Definitely picked the right day then
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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 08 Jul 2023, 12:12 pm

eirebilly_01 wrote:I would say that Ali's wickets were not from good bowling or pressure built by him, more just incredibly ordinary shots.

I would suggest that the Aussies were more just trying to slow the pace down and try and bat as long as possible as only a draw would see them retain the Ashes.

Sky team mentioned the lack of intent when running between the wickets yesterday, it was incredibly noticeable and the Aussies must have left close to 15/20 runs out there by turning down runs.

Most if not all of those runs turned down were because of Khawaja who is one of the laziest runners in test cricket. You see a noticeable upturn in the running between the wickets when he's not out there.

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Post by GSC Sat 08 Jul 2023, 12:28 pm

The annoying thing with Mo is he did the grafting for an hour, played within himself, let the short stuff go. Then he falls for the short stuff, gets dropped and does the exact same thing again. If he bats the last 20 minutes to lunch, England are still in a reasonable position. There's a capable batsmen but not the mentality needed.

Maybe Marnus and Smith rather gave it away, but it's still a potentially game changing contribution when it was starting to look rather dire last night
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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 12:37 pm

More rain on the radar. Would be surprised if they got on before 3, but it is drier going into the late afternoon/early evening, so should still have a few hours of play today.

Small chance of rain tomorrow. Monday has quite a bit of rain in the afternoon if you believe the BBC; less so if you believe the Met Office.

Even more rain on the radar. Unlikely to get on before 4:30. Draw is starting to look possible.

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Post by GSC Sat 08 Jul 2023, 2:31 pm

Fair to say nothings going to happen today I think
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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 3:15 pm

Looks like an early night for me then...

Hope the weather is better tomorrow : if we can get , say , sixty-seventy overs from the next two days a result may yet be possible . Would need to close this innings out fairly quickly of course. But at least the bowlers will be rested Smile

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 3:46 pm

Worst case scenario is three sessions of play left (two tomorrow; one on Monday), so a draw is still the outside option.

And still a slight chance of some play tonight...

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 4:15 pm

There we go. Play in half an hour. Unless it rains again. Which it might.

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Post by guildfordbat Sat 08 Jul 2023, 4:15 pm

Play to start at 4:45 IF no further rain.

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Post by guildfordbat Sat 08 Jul 2023, 4:16 pm

I just can't beat Duty to the draw. Whistle

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 4:17 pm

Ha. I had to sit up for that inspection. Now I will wait another half hour...

... and then the rain will come back , no ?

Ah who needs sleep ?


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Post by GSC Sat 08 Jul 2023, 4:20 pm

Might be a pretty horrible mini session for Head and Marsh to try and bat through
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Post by king_carlos Sat 08 Jul 2023, 4:39 pm

Another, "can England take advantage this time?", moment coming up. Bowlers are rested, visibility won't be great, lights on, batters starting again. It's a far better situation for the bowling side than batting side. England need to take advantage to stay in the series.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 4:44 pm

Up to 34 overs, if by some minor miracle the rain misses and the light stays good.

If the full 34 overs are bowled, play can go to 7:30, England should be looking to bowl Australia out in this mini-session.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 4:47 pm

Not a fan of England going short straight away to Head. In conditions like this they should pitch it up and give the ball a chance to move.

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Post by GSC Sat 08 Jul 2023, 4:51 pm

Get on with the game surely
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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:00 pm

Hope that's not all we are going to see !

Batting conditions anything but friendly so England need to take advantage. Not sure about all the short stuff...surely you pitch it up ? I don't mind some around the ears - especially to Head ; but got to make them play , and threaten the stumps with a chance the ball will do a bit under the lights.

Right giving this ten minutes or so...

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:02 pm

You've stayed up this far, you can make it to the end!

Radar looking clearer, so I think they'll get back out tonight. Yep, covers coming off again.

Blimey, they're coming back on already. I thought we'd have the customary 20 minute delay after the rain stopped!

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:10 pm

Ok back in time...

Now let's see some good bowling please.

Marsh looks as if he's suddenly turned into some kind of Ponting/Waugh/Chappell hybrid overnight. Starting like a rocket again...could mess up England's plans very quickly here...

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:14 pm

Very amusing that Marsh is out to one he didn't play.

Don't bowl it short, keep pitching it up.

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:14 pm

Aha ! I am claiming that one Wink

Woakes thumbsup

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Post by GSC Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:14 pm

There goes the dangerman...

This might be it for England's ashes hopes right here
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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:24 pm

Good to get Marsh but have to break this pair quickly. If they just keep banging it in short to Head I fear they're going to waste this opportunity. Mix it up a bit more , please.

Wonder how soon we will see Wood ?

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:30 pm

Might not risk Wood with the light. May mean the umpires get twitchy with the light meter.

Broad bowling superbly against Carey, just not finding the edge. Lead just going past 160.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:33 pm

Wow, another leave resulting in a dismissal. Woakes is having quite the comeback test! Really good bowling to bring that one back in.

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:33 pm

Where has this Woakes chap been the last couple of weeks ? 😀

Into the bowlers...

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Post by king_carlos Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:35 pm

Chris Woakes has had such an impressive return. He's just so reliable.

Carey goes as well as Marsh.

The door is open for England.

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:41 pm

Door ajar. Head playing pretty well. Starc and Cummins can bat . Next two wickets vital.

Wood into the attack : can he do what he did to the tail on Thursday ?

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:47 pm

Head has looked in good touch since the resumption, but no batsman is safe in conditions like these. The tail's contributions will be vital - surprised Cummins hasn't promoted himself to 8.

But everything coming off the middle of Starc's blade, thus far. Brisk partnership, this.

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:54 pm

Aussies not fiddling around like they did last night...looking for runs wherever they can. Couple of wickets gone already but this lead is ticking up quite briskly too. Think they are taking the right approach as just trying to defend could see them go nowhere.

Lead up to 191. That's a pretty fast 49 added today already.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:57 pm

Woakes has taken the two wickets but thought Broad has bowled the better stuff of the three so surprised to see them bring Wood on.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 5:59 pm

Brook has done really well there. Bairstow sold him down the river.

194/7 effectively. England on top, but Head still there and Cummins well capable of support.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 08 Jul 2023, 6:00 pm

Jonny's confidence has completely gone, that was his catch all day long.

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 6:01 pm

Top catch Harry Brook ! For a moment I feared he and Jonny were going to leave it to each other.

Seven down and three to go... This pair really the last of the decent bats.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 6:11 pm

Beautiful from Wood. Cummins made to look quite clueless.

Time for Head to attack and try to lift his side to 250.

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Post by GSC Sat 08 Jul 2023, 6:11 pm

Bit of a why not review there
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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 6:12 pm

Wood strikes again ! Cummins review was one of the most pointless I've ever seen...but I guess he figured no point leaving any for Boland and Murphy: which seems a bit disrespectful Wink

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 6:20 pm

Head and Murphy adding useful runs. Still think too many short balls ...reckon full and fast is worth a try. More boundaries...lead to 214. Need to wrap this up.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 08 Jul 2023, 6:24 pm

These tactics are absolute trash again, just bowl a proper line and length.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 6:25 pm

Yep, Aussies continuing to attack. Fielders in the deep struggling to pick up the ball; that's one disadvantage for England in this session.

Lead of 219. Not inconsiderable. Hope it doesn't go the way of those two tests v India in 2021.

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 6:27 pm

This is not working. Head collecting boundaries , keeping strike as he likes. The same error Australia made with Stokes last week. One dimensional cricket and it's leaking vital runs.

Twenty five runs this partnership now. Wood is better than this. Starting to remind me of a match against India two years back...

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 6:30 pm

Fifty for Head. Taking Australia to a defendable lead clap

Trouble is , having done this for so long , England are sort of committed to it now. Could easily cost them the match.

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jul 2023, 6:33 pm

Yeah Head is just taking this rubbish apart now. Lot of good work being undone and not sure England have a plan B . Target is going to be 250 at least . And could be a lot more !

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 6:34 pm

England have lost the plot now. What is this field to Head? It's good bowling conditions, try and get him out.

And please bring Broad back.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 08 Jul 2023, 6:37 pm

Well there goes the ashes, undone all the good work when they bowled properly.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Jul 2023, 6:46 pm

Thank the lord for Stuart Broad.

Duty281

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England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes - Page 10 Empty Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes

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