England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes

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50 up for Mo at an absolutely vital moment.   

A fortuitous way to get there with Cummins not picking it up. It frankly looked like he wasn't moving well chasing back for it either.

Starc back on which I think slows how key a period the Aussies know this is. He's looked their best bowler today.

Much media talk about whether the weather will be kind and allow England to take 5 wickets and win the match. However, it will need to remain kind for longer if Australia can get another 61 runs today. I don't think it's a done deal that they won't ....

Old Trafford has taken an absolute deluge overnight. It has been dry for the last hour or so, but apparently it has just started raining again.

Pitch inspection at 11.

They're getting cricket in Edinburgh this morning, frustratingly enough.

Maybe a bit this morning? Doubt it'll be for very long.

Raining again.

I know the calendar is quite tight, but I'd be in favour of a reserve day for all tests. Just annoying that a conclusion could be reached for this game if they played tomorrow, and this sort of thing probably turns off potential new fans that are attracted to the Ashes - especially with more rain forecast for the Oval.

Duty281 wrote:Raining again.

I know the calendar is quite tight, but I'd be in favour of a reserve day for all tests. Just annoying that a conclusion could be reached for this game if they played tomorrow, and this sort of thing probably turns off potential new fans that are attracted to the Ashes - especially with more rain forecast for the Oval.

Ha! Until recently, some people (not you, Duty, as far as I'm aware) were suggesting shortening Tests to 4 days.

I follow your reasoning and the point about turning off potential new fans certainly seems valid but the traditionalist in me sees the weather and making allowance for it as part of the game, albeit often frustrating.

In line with a post from Galted yesterday, bad weather or more particularly the threat of it can on occasions even make a game more gripping. Going into day 4 and last of Surrey's Championship match against Middlesex at Lord's yesterday, Surrey in order to win just needed to take Middlesex's final wicket and score 70 odd runs plus however many the 10th wicket put on in the morning. Normally a piece of cake for a routine victory but the heavens were forecast to open at noon and so it proved. Surrey got home successfully by 8 wickets and/or more realistically by about 10 minutes. Phew!

One aspect I don't like about so called Bazball is that it appears to concentrate upon winning at all costs. Whilst seemingly attractive, that pays insufficient regard to a draw being a legitimate result and sometimes a hard earned one producing a tense and exciting conclusion.

guildfordbat wrote:One aspect I don't like about so called Bazball is that it appears to concentrate upon winning at all costs.

How does that equate with Stokes' comment that the actual results are relatively low down the list of priorities?

Yeah, not a fan of four day tests, especially with over rates so slow and it would make games even more vulnerable to the weather.

Rain has stopped and the covers are coming off again. But does seem as though more rain is on the way, so won't be getting any hopes up.

Pitch inspection at 12:15.

Ah they're "taking lunch at 12:20" because of course they can't possibly have eaten sat around all morning. Stupid sport.

But they need that 40 minute break after doing nothing. Even doing nothing at the top level is exhausting!

I would imagine it won't be ready by 1 regardless.

Should really be a protocol for this though, i.e lose 90 minutes in a session and the next break is considered taken or similar

Is there an argument perhaps that England should blitz through these 9 overs with Root and Mo and get the new ball asap. Even if we get play later, they might lose the seamers to light anyway

GSC wrote:Is there an argument perhaps that England should blitz through these 9 overs with Root and Mo and get the new ball asap. Even if we get play later, they might lose the seamers to light anyway

Yep, also if Australia get a lead and England are chasing, they won't be charitable and bowl Head and Labuschagne so that England can win

Play at 13:00. But Accuweather (correct yesterday) saying it's going to rain soon anyway.

And, yes, it is indeed raining. Aussies will keep the urn. They've had it since the 18th December 2017 and, with little prospect of England winning in Australia, it'll be close to a decade of urn-holding when they tour again in 2027.

We didn't really expect play before 1pm , did we ? From what I'm reading the rain is a bit on and off ; so must still be a chance of a block of overs at some point ...

Of course , maybe it will end up a complete washout but perhaps too soon to write it off just yet.

And yes , if they do get on , Root at least should bowl to start with - looked the most likely wicket taker last night ! But maybe Wood at the other end.

Remaining hopeful - for now.

Fans developing a favourite weather radar for a couple of days is a fairly niche part of cricket I take a perverse enjoyment from in these moments.

The roller coaster of Duty's pessimistic predictions has been almost as enthralling as the cricket this summer though I must admit. I think both sides have won then subsequently thrown away every Test at about 97 different junctures.

I can't wait for the first ball change after 13.2 overs at the Oval where we find out why it beckons Afghanistan winning the 2038 T10 World Smash sponsored by Durex.

king_carlos wrote:Fans developing a favourite weather radar for a couple of days is a fairly niche part of cricket I take a perverse enjoyment from in these moments.

The roller coaster of Duty's pessimistic predictions has been almost as enthralling as the cricket this summer though I must admit. I think both sides have won then subsequently thrown away every Test at about 97 different junctures.

I can't wait for the first ball change after 13.2 overs at the Oval where we find out why it beckons Afghanistan winning the 2038 T10 World Smash sponsored by Durex.

Dunno, think my predictions have been pretty consistent. I haven't lurched too much. Growing more confident in England's chances as Australia's bowling has hit the wall, certainly.

Still think weather forecasting is only a narrow step up from horoscopes. Looked at 3 different rain radars yesterday, they were all saying something different.

alfie wrote:And yes , if they do get on , Root at least should bowl to start with - looked the most likely wicket taker last night !  But maybe Wood at the other end.

Wood from one end and spin from the other for me. Green in particular doesn't look comfortable against spin.

I really hope Woakes is fit to take the second new ball if we get there though.

Jimmy and Broad both being overlooked to start yesterday when England needed wickets so badly did feel like a slight passing of the torch moment. Even with how good Broad has been this series. Ashes on the line, no idea how many overs we'll get, gloomy skies, England's leading two wicket takers available in home conditions. Yet Jimmy is just used for one over due to Woakes not being able to bowl for 11 minutes.

It felt like completely the right decision but also a slightly telling one.

alfie wrote:We didn't really expect play before 1pm , did we ?  From what I'm reading the rain is a bit on and off  ; so must still be a chance of a block of overs at some point ...

Of course , maybe it will end up a complete washout but perhaps too soon to write it off just yet.

And yes , if they do get on , Root at least should bowl to start with - looked the most likely wicket taker last night !  But maybe Wood at the other end.

Remaining hopeful - for now.

Huge band of rain that was just north of Leeds this morning is gradually moving south. It has now engulfed Leeds and will soon overwhelm Old Trafford. At least according to one of these radars. I think it's accurate because I'm in Leeds and it's raining.

Duty281 wrote:Still think weather forecasting is only a narrow step up from horoscopes. Looked at 3 different rain radars yesterday, they were all saying something different.

Yep. In Britain it's practically guesswork they move around so quickly.

Having stopped briefly it's now raining again at OT though. 

Ah that doesn't sound good. Guess my younger Australian born brother's rain dance has been working for him

JuliusHMarx wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:One aspect I don't like about so called Bazball is that it appears to concentrate upon winning at all costs.

How does that equate with Stokes' comment that the actual results are relatively low down the list of priorities?

Hello Julius Henry - fair question. What I meant - and, yes, it would have been better if I had worded it this way - was that England's approach under Stokes and McCullum appears to concentrate upon going for it and not holding back with very little regard for a draw. I believe that does equate with Stokes' comment.

king_carlos wrote:

alfie wrote:And yes , if they do get on , Root at least should bowl to start with - looked the most likely wicket taker last night !  But maybe Wood at the other end.

Wood from one end and spin from the other for me. Green in particular doesn't look comfortable against spin.

I really hope Woakes is fit to take the second new ball if we get there though.

Jimmy and Broad both being overlooked to start yesterday when England needed wickets so badly did feel like a slight passing of the torch moment. Even with how good Broad has been this series. Ashes on the line, no idea how many overs we'll get, gloomy skies, England's leading two wicket takers available in home conditions. Yet Jimmy is just used for one over due to Woakes not being able to bowl for 11 minutes.

It felt like completely the right decision but also a slightly telling one.

I don't disagree with Alfie's or Carlos' reasoning but, if we do get some play today, I would want our two best bowlers from the off. Whoever those two are, I'm uneasy if Root (or Moeen as Carlos perhaps hints) is now one of them.

Rain apparently very heavy now. Think we're just waiting for it to be called off.

Fifth test starts on Thursday. Though the urn will have remained lost, it's still an important test as Australia look to close out their first series win in England since 2001, plus WTC points are on the line. Weather looks better for that one, but still some rain around on a couple of days.

In terms of the teams, England may bring Robinson back for Anderson or Broad. Anderson bowled well without much reward in this test, while Broad has got through 144 overs in the series and may need to put his feet up. Wood may also exit after two straight tests, in which case I imagine it'll be Tongue coming in. Can't see any other changes.

Australia, really not sure what they're going to do. Starc, Cummins and Hazlewood all look like they need recuperation, but at most I'd think only two can be rested, and Cummins would loathe to be sitting on the sidelines for the final test. And then there's the matter of who comes in. Murphy looked poor when Australia gave him a go, and Boland has been utterly toothless, so they'll need to search wider afield for replacements.

Not much time off , eh ? Result - or non-result - of this one may have a big influence on that one. Obviously both sides will still be keen to win it either way ; but you'd think if this one is drawn as now seems likely it may have a somewhat deflating effect on England ? And conversely , embolden an Australian team that has been looking pretty ragged these last few days : they would certainly want to win it , to kill off any accusations of being just "lucky and saved by the weather".

Unfortunately , because of the nature of this Ashes contest , a "partially dead" last game always loses something against a true decider. Would still be worth watching , I am sure - but not quite the same. So I am still hoping for a late miracle today : really do think this thrilling series deserves a last match decider - for both sides.

I'm probably dreaming but will sit up a while yet . Just in case...

Probably Robinson or Tongue for Jimmy I think. Imagine Broad and Wood will want to keep going

Imagine Australia will drop Warner, possibly for Boland. Marnus up to open and Marsh at 3 maybe? Doubt Cummins plans to drop himself so allows the workload to be shared around mainline seamers. Can't imagine Murphy will be picked for the oval if he isn't trusted here

Think given it's still bucketing it down we can safely give up on this one now

OK I have officially given up now.

Off to watch the Diamond League athletics...not raining in London !

alfie wrote:OK I have officially given up now.  

Off to watch the Diamond League athletics...not raining in London !

Yeah, I gave up on the cricket and the remote control a little while ago for Mrs Bat to watch the Diamond League (athletics and tennis are her sports).

I know we all love the Great Ian Botham but is Stuart Broad a candidate for England's greatest ever Ashes player of the modern era? I have no idea how many runs he has scored but he has take the most wickets by an Englishman in the Ashes.

The man consistently performs against the Aussies.

Five wickets in under an hour! The opposition bowled all out. Amazing scenes. In the 2nd test at Trinidad between West Indies and India.

Still raining in Manchester.

Think we're probably closer to play being abandoned in the next hour than play today

eirebilly_01 wrote:I know we all love the Great Ian Botham but is Stuart Broad a candidate for England's greatest ever Ashes player of the modern era? I have no idea how many runs he has scored but he has take the most wickets by an Englishman in the Ashes.

The man consistently performs against the Aussies.

He'd definitely be a consideration for me. 8 five-wicket hauls for Broad against Australia, also, only Botham (9) has more in the modern era.

GSC wrote:Think we're probably closer to play being abandoned in the next hour than play today

Surprised it hasn't already been called off. Even if the rain ceases the light will make it unplayable.

Why would you abandon play for bad light when you can get out there, and get the light meters out after one ball

In a summer in which there has been less combined swing and seam movement for pace bowlers than in any England Test season since ball-tracking data became available (2006), neither side in this Ashes series has been bowled out for under 220.

It is only the sixth Ashes series out of 72 in which there have been no all-out scores below 200 in the first four Tests.

Very telling from Zaltzman.

May not be any play in Manchester but in Port of Spain India are playing Bazball. Their openers have put on 96 in 11 overs.

sirfredperry wrote:May not be any play in Manchester but in Port of Spain India are playing Bazball. Their openers have put on 96 in 11 overs.

Well there's the trouble with Bazball... because I see it has also brought about a rain delay in Port of Spain

Can't keep hitting balls into the air like that : it apparently sets the clouds off...

No official word yet, but we're well past the point when it would need to stop raining to get on before the cut off so the writing on the wall.

Shame we won't get a decider to an excellent test series but England did all they could here. Failing to close out at Edgbaston and some fairly brain dead batting at Lord's loom pretty large.

Seen the idea of reserve day floated around, not sure it's that feasible to have everyone on standby for a day that may not happen

Adjust playing time possibly? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense that we can play to 7.30 if we lose time but if we don't and it hits 6.30 we go off. Certainly there's time to start earlier than 11.

Also the idea that we can't make up time in advance if rain is forecast is silly

And there's the abandonment.

Shouldn't sell Australia short. They've been England's equals for most of this series and held their nerve when England rather threw it away

GSC wrote:Seen the idea of reserve day floated around, not sure it's that feasible to have everyone on standby for a day that may not happen

Adjust playing time possibly? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense that we can play to 7.30 if we lose time but if we don't and it hits 6.30 we go off. Certainly there's time to start earlier than 11.

Also the idea that we can't make up time in advance if rain is forecast is silly

You'd like to think things like this would be on the table but they can't even begin to sort out over rates, let alone some more forward thinking stuff like this...

It also does my head in that we go off for bad light at cricket grounds with floodlights on. A total nonsense also

Game abandoned. Australia retain the Ashes.

England couldn't quite bowl Australia out quick enough in the first innings, though they deserved to bowl them out sooner, and then England batted on too long. Either way, winning a test in three days was always going to be difficult.

Lot to play for in the 5th test, however, England need to do what they did v India and not lose the series.

Going off for bad light when we now play day night tests is certainly something

I guess we have all seen plenty of Tests ruined - or at least a result prevented - due to weather problems. It is part of the game , to be honest. They do try to mitigate this by allowing extra overs on later days if time is lost early in the match : but of course this remedy isn't available when it is the last couple of days affected !
You can't really "make up time" before it's been lost - even if the forecast (an imperfect metric) is dodgy. And can't really allocate a reserve day except for special cases : like a WTC Final . Or , I would suggest , a Fifth Test in a series level after four , perhaps ?

But nothing you could really do about this one I'm afraid. The worst thing , and what makes this one seem especially distressing , is that it hasn't just been some serious time lost ; but essentially the last five sessions of the match - which is basically killing any contest , even when the game (like this one ) was well advanced. Seriously rotten luck for an England team who had both taken risks to advance the game and successfully dominated it - and made more so by the fact that it leaves them no chance of actually winning the series now.

But that's the way it goes : and why you should never (a) let your opponent get an early two-nil lead ; and (b) never schedule an Ashes Test match in Manchester

The calls for reserve days seem like sour grapes. England pretty much gifted the first game of the series, then batted terribly in the first innings of the second. A drawn series would seem about fair, so that now has to be the aim

To be fair on the last point, I'm about 10 miles away from Trent Bridge and I don't think you'd have gotten even 3 days play if it was there

As I think Duty said yesterday, aside from an India tour over the winter it's a very white ball dominated schedule for the next year. Probably the last time we see Jimmy? Not sure you can justify his inclusion at the Oval based on the returns.

Batting lineup feels fairly secure, bowling attack feels the opposite factoring in whether Stokes is a specialist batsman at this point

GSC wrote:Seen the idea of reserve day floated around, not sure it's that feasible to have everyone on standby for a day that may not happen

Adjust playing time possibly? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense that we can play to 7.30 if we lose time but if we don't and it hits 6.30 we go off. Certainly there's time to start earlier than 11.

Also the idea that we can't make up time in advance if rain is forecast is silly

First things first - sort over rates out. No excuses, teams need to bowl 90 overs in 6 and a half hours. Around 25 overs were lost in this test, not due to rain, not due to bad light, but due to slowness. That could be the difference between 2-2 and 1-2. No use complaining about umpires being overeager with light meters and the like when a whole session is often lost due to slowness. Extending playing time to get the overs in may be one idea, but I think the core problem is the slowness and that needs to be addressed.

Reserve days I think are very plausible. It may mean extra expense occurred, but I say it's worth it if you save games as a result, such as the first WTC final. The game is struggling for fans and events like today aren't going to help. It's going to be perfectly dry in Manchester tomorrow, so days like today seem a nonsense to the new fan (and old).

Make up overs in advance? Perhaps, but how certain does a rain forecast need to be to generate extra overs? And what happens if extra overs are bowled and the rain doesn't fall?

GSC wrote:To be fair on the last point, I'm about 10 miles away from Trent Bridge and I don't think you'd have gotten even 3 days play if it was there

As I think Duty said yesterday, aside from an India tour over the winter it's a very white ball dominated schedule for the next year. Probably the last time we see Jimmy? Not sure you can justify his inclusion at the Oval based on the returns.

Batting lineup feels fairly secure, bowling attack feels the opposite factoring in whether Stokes is a specialist batsman at this point

Lifecycle of English test cricketers is generally decided by the Ashes, and I doubt Jimmy wants to tour Australia again! He's an option in India, because he does have a good record there, but I'd be surprised if he were picked at this stage. If this is the end it has been a tame one.

Still, 689 wickets @ 26.29...it's not been a bad test career, has it?

Duty281 wrote:

GSC wrote:Seen the idea of reserve day floated around, not sure it's that feasible to have everyone on standby for a day that may not happen

Adjust playing time possibly? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense that we can play to 7.30 if we lose time but if we don't and it hits 6.30 we go off. Certainly there's time to start earlier than 11.

Also the idea that we can't make up time in advance if rain is forecast is silly

First things first - sort over rates out. No excuses, teams need to bowl 90 overs in 6 and a half hours. Around 25 overs were lost in this test, not due to rain, not due to bad light, but due to slowness. That could be the difference between 2-2 and 1-2. No use complaining about umpires being overeager with light meters and the like when a whole session is often lost due to slowness. Extending playing time to get the overs in may be one idea, but I think the core problem is the slowness and that needs to be addressed.

Reserve days I think are very plausible. It may mean extra expense occurred, but I say it's worth it if you save games as a result, such as the first WTC final. The game is struggling for fans and events like today aren't going to help. It's going to be perfectly dry in Manchester tomorrow, so days like today seem a nonsense to the new fan (and old).

Make up overs in advance? Perhaps, but how certain does a rain forecast need to be to generate extra overs? And what happens if extra overs are bowled and the rain doesn't fall?

To your point they'd end up bowling the overs they should've

I highly doubt Jimmy is going to retire - a bad series yes, no doubt. But it was 3 months ago he was the #1 rated bowler in the world after a superb year.

I think he will go to India (he certainly should if available) and play next summer. I like to think he will announce his final English summer in advance, so he can get the send off he deserves (ala Cook at The Oval for example)