Rest of the World

First topic message reminder :

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:So India is getting back on the field tonight, kicking off their WTC campaign. Rohit has already confirmed Jaiswal will open, and Gill drop down to 3. When all the talk of Yashasvi taking over from Pujara at 3 was going on, I felt he should open, particularly since the team views Gill as the eventual successor to Virat Kohli at 4. Going forward, I see a top 4 of Jaiswal, Abhimanyu Easwaran/Devdutt Padikkal/Rohan Kunnummal, Gill, Ruturaj Gaikwad.

Eswaran has been hard done by......Jaiswal was jumped over him
Mayank Agarwal should not be ruled out...he has batted very well in FC and has a decent test match showing also.

And don't forget the favorite boy of seniors and BCCI in KL Rahul...as soon as he is fit he will walk back into the 11

Its been tough on Easwaran. Think Mayank and KL might find it difficult to now fight their way back in. Particularly if Yashasvi has a good start to his career. KL might still make a comeback when Rohit leaves, but I hope Easwaran, Rohan and even Padikkal will make better cases for themselves.
As for Yashasvi jumping over Abhimanyu, though its tough on the latter, think is the right call. Jaiswal scored hundreds on his Ranji, Duleep and Irani trophy debuts. He's versatile and has shown adaptability as indicated by his IPL success. And, its not much noted these days, but he's a handy parttimer with the ball, he very much was for the U-19s, hope he'll get a few chances right away to work on that secondary skill of his...

...and now Jansen gone so SA effectively 5/6. Might not need a lunch break...

Bumrah has taken all 3 this morning.....as SA 6 down with 5 runs ahead.
2 of those 3 wickets fell to ordinary shots....but there are a few deliveries that jumped off a length
That puts doubt as well as fear in the minds of batters........who start expecting a misbehaving ball and try to manufacture strokes

I'm sorry KPfan, but here are the scores this morning
11(12)
9(7)
12(11)
3(4)

Not a single one of them dismissed by playing defensive shot. Three out on the drive on a wicket where 23 wickets fell the day before. Surely you've got to earn the right to play shots even on difficult pitches? What could possibly happen in 10 deliveries to convince you that one will eventually have your name on it?

Not that I blame them completely. It's an inexperienced batting line up in a rather difficult situation. They've capitulated as inexperienced line ups often do. The issue is I don't know that they'll ever play enough games to grow past that

Seven gone now and it is Bumrah's day ... only fair after Siraj dominated yesterday

Markram has done a great job staying in while all around have fallen - but will be all in vain as India have this in the bag.

kingraf wrote:I'm sorry KPfan, but here are the scores this morning
11(12)
9(7)
12(11)
3(4)

Not a single one of them dismissed by playing defensive shot. Three out on the drive on a wicket where 23 wickets fell the day before. Surely you've got to earn the right to play shots even on difficult pitches? What could possibly happen in 10 deliveries to convince you that one will eventually have your name on it?

Not that I blame them completely. It's an inexperienced batting line up in a rather difficult situation. They've capitulated as inexperienced line ups often do. The issue is I don't know that they'll ever play enough games to grow past that

But that is the thing , isn't it ? The 23 wickets yesterday has them all sure their only hope is to whack it and hope because the killer ball is coming...and they've all come in with that mindset. True of both sides really , was it not ?

alfie wrote:Seven gone now and it is Bumrah's day ... only fair after Siraj dominated yesterday

Markram has done a great job staying in while all around have fallen - but will be all in vain as India have this in the bag.

Markram is probably thinking "valiant hundred in a crushing defeat. Nothing better in cricket" 27 more runs

kingraf wrote:

alfie wrote:Seven gone now and it is Bumrah's day ... only fair after Siraj dominated yesterday

Markram has done a great job staying in while all around have fallen - but will be all in vain as India have this in the bag.

Markram is probably thinking "valiant hundred in a crushing defeat. Nothing better in cricket" 27 more runs

Guess if he gets his hundred and the rabbits add another twenty they will just about have enough lead to contemplate bowling India out for fifty...

alfie wrote:

kingraf wrote:I'm sorry KPfan, but here are the scores this morning
11(12)
9(7)
12(11)
3(4)

Not a single one of them dismissed by playing defensive shot. Three out on the drive on a wicket where 23 wickets fell the day before. Surely you've got to earn the right to play shots even on difficult pitches? What could possibly happen in 10 deliveries to convince you that one will eventually have your name on it?

Not that I blame them completely. It's an inexperienced batting line up in a rather difficult situation. They've capitulated as inexperienced line ups often do. The issue is I don't know that they'll ever play enough games to grow past that

But that is the thing , isn't it ? The 23 wickets yesterday has them all sure their only hope is to whack it and hope because the killer ball is coming...and they've all come in with that mindset. True of both sides really , was it not ?

It's Test cricket though? Yesterday's pitch isn't today's pitch. Markram hasn't missed a ball this morning. From -98 we'd have been up against it regardless, but I don't think this pitch has been that bad this morning.

Yes it's not every ball ; but the occasional one that really does something ridiculous is what has spooked them. Agree a bit more judgement might have been advised - especially with Markram doing so well with no real support.

Lead over 40 : wonder how many before India get just a little bit anxious ?

Prasidh is having the bowling equivalent of getting a duck the day the rest of the top score hundreds. Tough old game cricket.

[quote="kingraf"]Prasidh is having the bowling equivalent of getting a duck the day the rest of the top score hundreds. Tough old game cricket.

Think Prasidh is off back to the local leagues after these Tests. Had some experience ; if he learns from it he may come again.

Meanwhile delighted to see Markram with his hundred. I quite like him to be honest ; though his form has had a couple of alarming dips I do think he is one they have to maintain faith in ; his poor record away from home is a worry.

I see Indian fans are already starting to panic online

That's it now though...Siraj (who should surely have bowled earlier ?) doing the trick. Great knock by Markram But they needed him to make 150...

Markram was within touching distance of the oldest record in cricket! He had 65.4% of SAs runs at the time of dismissal, close to Bannerman’s 67.3% in the first ever Test Match. It will never be broken.

So 79 to get , eh ? Should be easy enough...but if a couple fell early...

Really a total that serves no purpose other than allowing players who are having a horror tour to cap their tour off with another early dismissal. Worst kind of target

I think ultimately, Markram showed the pitch had calmed down, and there was probably runs in it if you were willing to at least get yourself in. You don't play a near chancless 100 at run a ball on a pitch where the rest of your teammates have struggled to get to 10, unless you're either a Lara/Tendulkar level genius or your teammates haven't applied themselves properly. Markram is good, but his average of 36 suggests its probably more likely than not the latter.

Overall, I think this series would be what Peter Siddle once described as a good one-all series win for South Africa. The white wash would have been better, but 1-1 against the #1 team in the world when your #3-7 barely have more combined Test runs than your #8 is a decent result. The final frontier denied yet again, and we've restocked the pace stocks well, while Bedingham looks like he could be quite the prospect.

How do you see your batting going forward , raf ? Needing another opener of course ; and van der Dussen , Bavuma back , Bedingham one to continue ? At least you have Jansen capable of runs down the order : but I'm not sure I'm seeing anyone who is going to average high forties ?

In the end the win margin looks easy for India
This is inspite of India horrible collapse....they should have score another 70odd in first inning

And then poor bowling in second inning once Mukesh and Bumrah were removed
Makram batted well but Ind' 1st and 2nd change bowlers Prasidh and siraj just didn't bowl the good length which was creating variable bounce
Bowled too short taking the difficulty of pitch out of equation......giving away 50 runs too many.

SA had fallen so far behind in first session that the 120 runs gifted across 2nd and 3rd inning also did not allow SA to get back.

For India lessons
Prasidh is not a test match bowler

Gill will find hard to last long in tests
...doesn't get behind the line of ball and plays too far ahead of his body thru the line not covering for late movement

Jaiswal is talent like Pant with the bat....he is going too fast after the bowling like Pant initially used to
He has to be told to be a bit more patient and play 50 balls and then aim for 100 balls .....and be a bit more selective
Doesn't have to blast every delivery.

Mukesh is the find of series....he will do well in all conditions, a McGrath in making.

India cannot have a tail so long but this will be covered in home series by entry of Axar and Ashwin both of whom are capable of averaging 35 to 40 with bat at home .

7 wicket win for India. Bizarre match and I do think the pitch deserves a "poor" rating - or at least "below average" ; but they handled it better and deservedly levelled the series. First win for them at this ground , I believe : but still waiting to win a series in SA

Bit of a pity Elgar bows out with a loss ; but he was largely responsible for keeping that unbeaten record with his efforts last match so can retire with honour

Shortest ever completed Test. The pitch surely has to be written off as garbage. Markram's innings one of the greatest ever, worth a triple hundred anywhere else

alfie wrote:How do you see your batting going forward , raf ?  Needing another opener of course ; and van der Dussen , Bavuma back , Bedingham one to continue ?  At least you have Jansen capable of runs down the order : but I'm not sure I'm seeing anyone who is going to average high forties ?

I think we've got to look forward a touch. Janneman averages 44 domestically, and his ODI average of 48 suggests that when all the wheels are connected, he's an international calibre batsman. He was woefully out of touch when last seen, exacerbated by the fact that until we got to the important part of the World Cup, we had the best top 6 in World cricket.

Alternatively, Stubbs is a product of the new generation, so he doesn't have a lot of First class matches to his name, but he's got serious natural talent and I can see him having a Harry Brook-like role in the team, although to less success since we've decided to make our pitches spitting Cobras.
Dewald Brevis is another, only 20 years old, but he's just scored his first and second first class tons, with the second one being a rescue job on a lively pitch. He'd be more of a punt than the others but I watched him score 162 off 60-something balls against an attack which included Gerald Coetzee, who was bowling 95mph missiles.

Tony De Zorzi scored an ODI ton last month too, and he's still young, so he might be a building block moving forward. Shain Pollock seems to love him, and he's probably got an argument for the greatest player of all time, so he knows a bit, you'd think.

alfie wrote:7 wicket win for India. Bizarre match and I do think the pitch deserves a "poor" rating - or at least "below average" ; but they handled it better and deservedly levelled the series. First win for them at this ground , I believe : but still waiting to win a series in SA  

This is the second time Ind drew a series in SA and have collected 4 test wins in total
one came in Dhoni era ~2010 ( drawn series)
Kohli twice in 2018 & 2021
and Now this one in 2024
3 wins in last 3 tours and only 1 win from 1992 until 2017

Wow, the shortest test. Didn't see today's play, obviously expected it to be over today, but Markram's innings looks phenomenal.

106, no one else scored higher than 12. Or to look at it another way, Markram scored 108 total runs in the test. His ten teammates scored 112!

Also a freak result because India won a test without a single batsman of theirs scoring a half-century.

This pitch should be given the lowest possible rating by the ICC, and South Africa should be deducted points. Not good for an ailing game.

kingraf wrote:

alfie wrote:How do you see your batting going forward , raf ?  Needing another opener of course ; and van der Dussen , Bavuma back , Bedingham one to continue ?  At least you have Jansen capable of runs down the order : but I'm not sure I'm seeing anyone who is going to average high forties ?

I think we've got to look forward a touch. Janneman averages 44 domestically, and his ODI average of 48 suggests that when all the wheels are connected, he's an international calibre batsman. He was woefully out of touch when last seen, exacerbated by the fact that until we got to the important part of the World Cup, we had the best top 6 in World cricket.

Alternatively, Stubbs is a product of the new generation, so he doesn't have a lot of First class matches to his name, but he's got serious natural talent and I can see him having a Harry Brook-like role in the team, although to less success since we've decided to make our pitches spitting Cobras.
Dewald Brevis is another, only 20 years old, but he's just scored his first and second first class tons, with the second one being a rescue job on a lively pitch. He'd be more of a punt than the others but I watched him score 162 off 60-something balls against an attack which included Gerald Coetzee, who was bowling 95mph missiles.

Tony De Zorzi scored an ODI ton last month too, and he's still young, so he might be a building block moving forward. Shain Pollock seems to love him, and he's probably got an argument for the greatest player of all time, so he knows a bit, you'd think.  

Hi Raf - I suspect Uncle Graeme prevents him being the greatest player of his family but I take your point.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2024/01/04/t20-world-cup-fixtures-draw-west-indies-groups-england/

The 'draw' for the 2024 T20 World Cup has been done, according to The Telegraph. I use the term 'draw' very loosely. The ICC have just picked the groups to maximise revenue. At least they're semi-honest about it, I suppose. The first round groups, with the new format (shame, I liked the old format), are expected to be:

Group A - India (A1), Pakistan (A2), Ireland, Canada, USA
Group B - England (B1), Australia (B2), Namibia, Scotland, Oman
Group C - New Zealand (C1), West Indies (C2), Afghanistan, Uganda, PNG
Group D - South Africa (D1), Sri Lanka (D2), Bangladesh, Netherlands, Nepal

ICC covering all bases, with India v Pakistan, England v Australia and even Canada v the USA!

The seedings mean that teams are guaranteed to reach a certain second round group, regardless of placing. For example, India will be in Group 1, no matter if they finish first or second. England will be in Group 2, no matter if they finish first or second. And so on. The Telegraph says there's still some doubt about the seeding of NZ and the WI, so that could change. If there's an upset, for example Afghanistan qualifying and not NZ, then Afghanistan will directly replace NZ's seeding and go into Group 1.

All that said, the second round groups are:

Group 1 - India, Australia, NZ, Sri Lanka
Group 2 - Pakistan, England, West Indies, South Africa

Then the top two advance to the semis, from which it's a straight knockout. Seedings like this mean that, potentially, all four group winners in the first round could be in the same group for the second round. It's a strange system, but I suppose it gives some certainty to fans of the top eight nations.

No alarms this morning : 164/2 after 64 overs. But a few balls from Sajid have turned and kept a bit low so it may be tricky batting on day five... Australia will want to make sure they get a solid lead on first innings. They are certainly playing carefully , looking to build gradually, pending possible fireworks later in the day.
Jamal currently trying the (rather annoying - to me anyway) repetitive short ball stuff with fielders all around the leg boundary. Smith and Labuschagne not biting. Drinks. With the PM in the commentary box...

And thanks to kingraf for the info on new SA batting prospects...will keep an eye out for those names

Bizarre . We have just had a ten minute break in play because a small piece of black paper/plastic had been lying on the extended sight screen cover ; and Smith apparently found it a serious distraction. I am surprised he could even see it at that distance . Grounds staff chap who eventually managed to make his way precariously on to the fabric cover and retrieve the offending item got a standing ovation.
Smith happy now and promptly launched the next ball over mid off for four ... Obviously it must have been a major impediment

Blimey ...walk away to take a phone call for five minutes and all hell breaks loose ! First Hamza has Smith caught at cover immediately after rearranging the field to pack the off side instead of trying to suck them into hooking (187/3) ; then moments later Marnus departs for 60 , beaten and bowled by Salman (187/4).

Complete change of situation: the two nominated fast scorers in together now but both playing very carefully in the lead up to lunch , Salman bowling well and Australia with work to do , still trailing by 125 and a new ball just three overs away. Definitely pitch getting a bit two paced and batting last unlikely to be a picnic. Interesting.

This game keeps changing... Shortly after lunch , Pakistan seemed poised to take a serious advantage, with Head falling for just ten at 205/5...

But the Curse of the Tour for Pakistan had struck again : Marsh dropped on just seven ... and of course he has subsequently stepped up the run rate , along with a composed Carey , to take the score to 281/5 ... and Pakistan seem to be running out of ideas. They delayed taking the new ball for a long time - perhaps understandably because they were doing quite well with the old one - but they may have missed a trick as this pair managed to settle. Australia back in the ascendancy...

Fifty for Marsh...making them pay for the missed chance. But on the stroke of tea , Sajid nipped a ball through Carey's gate and just kissed a bail , to leave the game intriguingly placed with Australia at 289/6. Relief for Sajid who hasn't been very effective so far , looking considerably inferior to his spin partner Salman.
Was a useful knock of 38 by the Aussie keeper. But just the bowlers left now to support Marsh when they resume...

Hello...Jamal induces a loose drive from Marsh after tea and a simple catch to mid off...this time taken. Gone for 54 ; 293/7 ...game on !

Ball might have held up a bit in the surface. Important wicket for Pakistan... Who now think they might have Cummins as well : given not out , review called...this looks good unless he's hit it...

Yes that's out ...stone dead in fact. Four for Jamal ; duck for Cap'n Pat ...293/8.

And Jamal kept going : Lyon caught gully , Hazlewood caught slip...all out 299. Six for Jamal , who is having some match ! Aussies must have been taking lessons from India and SA ...lost the last five wickets for just ten runs.

The only delay in wrapping up the innings was an unnecessary amount if time taken to confirm that Lyon was caught fairly , if low. Even Lyon seemed to accept the catch was fair once he'd seen the replay ; but they kept fussing away trying to find any possible hint of doubt and wasted several minutes...that indecision annoys me.

Anyway this has been Pakistan's day so far. Lead of just 14 , but Aussies to bat last on a deteriorating pitch. Looks like a contest...

Didn't take Australia long to hit back : Starc produces a beauty to smash Shafique's castle and send him on his way for a pair... Just six balls that took.

And now Masood has gone first ball to Hazlewood...flirting at one he should have left and just edging behind! 1/2 after eight balls...

Seems both sides have been watching the game in SA

Have just about given up predicting events in this game. But my personal version of WINVIZ fancies an Australian win - actually has all along , because I have a feeling Pakistan just don't know quite how to close out a winning position, even when they've played themselves into one.
At effectively 21/2 now , a lot rests on the experienced Babar and his young debutant partner Ayub...

Looks like a game is on in Sydney

I hope to wake up early and watch the Aussies Chae tomm

Game moving on ...

Pakistan looked to be recovering with Babar and Ayub with a fifty stand ... but both gone in the last few minutes : Lyon trapped the left hander lbw , and then Travis Head of all people found the edge of Babar's bat and Carey did the rest. 60/4 .

Rizwan in now : he's been most impressive ; but will need to do a big job from here if Pakistan are to set a proper target. Not that a huge target may be needed : lot of turn for the spinners now so a lead of even 200 might be tricky. But that's a long way off...

Gets worse for Pakistan as Shakeel flicks a soft catch to slip from Hazlewood's first ball ... totally unnecessary , playing at that wide ball - with just ten minutes to stumps too.

At 67/5 this is likely one or two wickets away from being an easy stroll for Australia tomorrow instead of the tight contest we were looking forward to ...

...and worse again as night watchman Sajid lasts two balls (Is guildford watching ?) : clean bowled and it's 67/6

!!!!!!!!!!!

Three in the over ! Salman edges to slip...all falling apart for Pakistan in the shadows of stumps : Hazlewood has 4/9 and suddenly it is 67/7 : just 81 ahead.

In comes Jamal who must feel he's not getting too much support from his teammates...

And that is it for the day ... 68/7 ; the two best competitors in this Pakistan side at the wicket with a slender lead of 82 and needing something of a miracle stand tomorrow to make a game of this.
Not altogether shocked Australia hit back fiercely after rather folding with the bat : they have been nearly unbeatable at home for some time now and the confidence that brings must help them to bounce back from temporary reverses... but a bit surprised Pakistan yielded so meekly in that last half hour. Honestly can only see this going one way now : surely Jamal can't play another innings like that of Wednesday ?

Tick for Cummins too : got an important break with Head - then immediately brought Hazlewood back with devastating effect. Brilliant captaincy or got lucky ? Doesn't matter - it worked

It isn't a Monster Pitch , by the way. Something for the bowlers , sure ; but nothing to justify 5/10 in the afternoon session followed by this 5/9 . Just rotten batting against some good and some , shall we say fortunate , bowling.

Will have a stab at a prediction : Pakistan to total 115 after late hitting from Rizwan ; Australia to run down 130 for four wickets... Warner finishes with a fast twenty-nine

Inviting other entries - you will probably be closer than me...

And in further breathtaking news , Warner's Baggy Green and backpack was found in the team hotel ... so possibly not stolen at all ?

Thought you'd all be relieved to hear that

alfie wrote:And in further breathtaking news , Warner's Baggy Green and backpack was found in the team hotel ... so possibly not stolen at all ?

Thought you'd all be relieved to hear that

Warner knows how to steal the limelight and create a side-show by himself about himself

I left at 30-2 from home and got to work to find it's 67-7
Not as bad as Shastri's ...went round the corner to have a dump...that's breaking the internet...
But it's looking like 2024 will be a year of collapses
And yet again looks so near and yet so far for Pak....unless Aamer Jamaal can get another big 50 and turn this into Jamaal vs Aus

Slightly bemused to read a report that Steve Smith is apparently interested in taking Warner's place as opener : would have thought he was happy at four ? Maybe he feels he needs a new challenge after a - by his standards - fairly lean year.

Would be one way for CA to get their wish and shoehorn Cameron Green into the side : Smith.Khawaja.Labuschagne.Green.Head.Marsh ... I don't know . Could be seeing the hitters in a bit earlier than desirable ? And although Smith has certainly got the technical skills to go to the top of the order , would he really (a) complement Khawaja in the manner of Warner ; or (b) make the sort of contribution to the scores he has regularly done when coming in a bit later ?

Certainly another name into the pot : perhaps PJ can run a Tipping Competition on the final choice

Shame about Pakistan. Well in the game but Hazlewood's decided the contest with one over in the penultimate over of the day. Seems the last session rivaled SA-India, with 12 wickets falling!

The series was, as feared, very one-sided and Australia's phenomenal home record against Pakistan continues.

Smith as opener? Would be quite mad in my view. Averages above 60 in the number four position, why would Australia want to change something so perfect? That axis of Labuschagne-Smith-Head-Marsh is quite brilliant.

No need to fiddle about with the order, just get either a specialist opener or give Green a go at the top. Warner's only averaged 33 in test matches since the start of 2020, so the replacement won't have to do that much to eclipse those returns. Khawaja's 37 years old, so it'll be a double replacement soon enough.

Next test cricket is Australia at home to the West Indies for two tests, starting on the 17th. That seems even more one-sided than this one, with half of the Windies squad uncapped. Then the five tests between India and England on the 25th, which, I guess, is the main event of the cricketing winter, but I'm not anticipating much excitement.

Duty281 wrote:
Smith as opener? Would be quite mad in my view. Averages above 60 in the number four position, why would Australia want to change something so perfect?  Warner's only averaged 33 in test matches since the start of 2020, so the replacement won't have to do that much to eclipse those returns. .

Smith has expressed a wish to open , and on surface surprising but quite canny one a deeper thought.
The reason is there in bold......a batter needs to deliver far less to hold on to an openers slot
And Smith has declined, not converting his 20s to 40s most times averaging 39 in last 13 tests
filtered 13 24 2 863 121 39.22


I think Smith, nearing 35 believes he will get a longer rope as an opener even if he continues with his mediocre form....
Because expectations are lesser from an opener & boots to be filled are not as large
& there is likely to be a high degree of sympathy for having taken a difficult role and all that will give him 4 more years

I think Smudge is at a point where he is genuinely just playing until he doesn't enjoy it anymore.

He has earned a massive amount from investing in Koala Mattress early before it got big. An initial $100k investment back in 2015, by 2019 his stake was worth $12m.  Between an Aus central contract and a big IPL deal (which he likely wouldn't get now) that would be about 3 to 4 years earnings. He's set financially.

Obviously, he hasn't got the pressure of captaincy anymore. He's unlikely to play more ODIs beyond perhaps a scattering of home games. He'll be around the T20i side for the World T20, then I'd presume that'll be that. Then Aus don't play many Tests anymore anyway. Especially away from home. I could see him trying to bow out at the next Ashes with a home Test as a potential series ender if he's still enjoying it enough.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he's closer to the Damien Martyn bracket of retirement though. The sort of character who might be trudging back to the pavilion after getting dismissed one day and suddenly realise, "I'm not as angry about that as I used to be", then walk away into the sunset.

After the mayhem of last evening , all a bit calm this morning in Sydney as Jamal and Rizwan added forty runs without too much fuss ...but somewhat out of the blue , Rizwan elected to prod at Lyon instead of sweeping - and has been smartly held at leg slip by Warner. Welcome wicket for the Aussie spinner , who had been looking a little frustrated. 109/8.

So unlikely Pakistan will be able to extend the lead too far now ...well certainly won't as Jamal now lofts Cummins to Head in the deep : once again , one brings two ...

109/9 . Australia will be batting pretty soon.