Joshua v Ngannou....Another nail in Boxing's coffin.

Seems like 0-1 Ngannou is going to get another huge payday while giving AJ and Hearn another nice easy pay day at the same time......After all he extended an out of shape Fury who thought he'd be an easy touch and phoned in his performance....

Bit like Galento v Louis.......Tate v Weaver........Curry v Jacquot and about a hundred other matches where a Boxer can't be a**ed getting up for a stiff and comes close to paying the price or pays it....

But never mind it's a nice easy fight at the end of the day and he can say he beat a Fury opponent easier......A bit like Parker beat Ruiz easier than AJ (whoopy-doo)... Just as everybody who beat James Tillis easier than Tyson used to do !!

Should really be AJ v Dubois or Stinky Parker....Very winnable fights but against deserved opposition.

Perhaps we could have Crawford vs Jake Paul on the undercard ??....

Saddest thing is to see people like the eternal groveller-for-access Gareth A Davies trying to legitimise this crap...It's BS nothing more...

Happy new year..

Hope it flops, want to see Hrgović. Especially as Joshua looked good in his last fight

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Seems like 0-1 Ngannou is going to get another huge payday while giving AJ and Hearn another nice easy pay day at the same time......After all he extended an out of shape Fury who thought he'd be an easy touch and phoned in his performance....

Bit like Galento v Louis.......

Should really be AJ v Dubois or Stinky Parker....Very winnable fights but against deserved opposition.



Saddest thing is to see people like the eternal groveller-for-access Gareth A Davies trying to legitimise this crap...It's BS nothing

Tony “ I’ll milder da bum” Galento is comparable to Ngannou? That’s outlandish. Galento was more of an Andy Ruiz figure. Talent but looked like a walking doughnut. Ngannou has amasssed a great career in a different sport and performed admirably against the acknowledged number one of another. I for one have never been a Joshua fan but I like the match-up as it will be intriguing to see whether he lets his hands go or reverts to the Frank Bruno tribute show. Both fighters with a tendency to walk in straight lines who pack a big punch.What’ not to like?

Gareth Davies is a preening shill whose opinions are not particularly enlightening but at least he’s preferable to Bunce who seems to make everything a measure of how hard he can look by saying Make no mistake, trust me, every other second.

Without Saudi investment, there would have been no December 23 HW fights, no upcoming 17 Feb undisputed HW fight, no Mar 08 HW fights (AJ + rest of card to be decided to include Zhilei Zhang, DWilder ...).    At least we are getting to see interesting HW fights on a regular basis - rather than nothing or one fight every year or two.   The more fights the more we learn.   Usyk and Fury will likely rematch and then retire or have one or two more fights before retiring.  Wilder is probably not far from retiring.

Its a no brainer for Joshua though. Ngannou shocked the world and arguably should have been given the decision over Fury. Joshua gets a big payday, and gets to "prove" (I use the term loosely) he's on Fury's level by dispatching Ngannou, something Fury couldn't do.

Also there's no point Joshua fighting Hrgovic until the winner of Fury/Usyk vacates a belt or two, at least facing Ngannou he stays active.

No name Bertie wrote:Without Saudi investment, there would have been no December 23 HW fights, no upcoming 17 Feb undisputed HW fight, no Mar 08 HW fights (AJ + rest of card to be decided to include Zhilei Zhang, DWilder ...).    At least we are getting to see interesting HW fights on a regular basis - rather than nothing or one fight every year or two.   The more fights the more we learn.   Usyk and Fury will likely rematch and then retire or have one or two more fights before retiring.  Wilder is probably not far from retiring.

Have too much respect for the Yemenis to purchase anything Saudi have to sell sports wise.....Wait to watch on youtube...

Sad to see some "experts" are thinking a guy(0-1) that surprised someone who thought he was turning up for an exhibition (Rocky 1 anybody) is a legitimate fight....

Carlos Maussa......Jorge Vaca........and hundreds of others have been destroyed after giving a Champion who looked past them a hard night.

AJ ko Ngannou means diddly despite what line Hypocrite Hearn will try to push.......after all Fury v Ngannou was a "cash grab".

It's crap and it is making a sullied sport worse......and remember Conor Benn shouldn't be banned like all other drug cheats according to Hearn because Eddie believes him...

I liked Jorge Vaca and also Jeff Harding. Limited but game boxers who could win on somebody better’s off night. Boxing is full of those. They deserve NOT to be lumped in with the likes of Ngannou but Fury is a disgrace to boxing who lazes his way to wins. All money and no honour.

Mochyn du wrote:I liked Jorge Vaca and also Jeff Harding.  Limited but game boxers who could win on somebody better’s off night.  Boxing is full of those.  They deserve NOT to be lumped in with the likes of Ngannou but Fury is a disgrace to boxing who lazes his way to wins.  All money and no honour.

Why would anyone enjoy Jorge Vaca ??........A stiff that only threw one twos.....Brown v Vaca told us everything.....

Down six times in three rounds..

Whatever happens in Ngannou v AJ the fact a non boxer is probably the third most lucrative Heavy in the sport at 0-1 tells us everything and opens the door for more new arrivals...

Sad.

Maybe because the holy trilogy of so called greats were actually pretty average fighters? Joshua was way too vainglorious about his win against Wlad-he was flat footed and straight ahead. Wilder for some reason never learned the basics of the sport. Ok we know why-he didn’t think he needed to. Fury has one good win on his resume-Wladimir. With all the will in the
world I can’t count Whyte as a credible contender for world honours. Ditto the other stumpy Brit who gets offended if you DONT punch him on the face repeatedly
Ngannou is a clear contender for top five status as a HW. The fact that it shouldn’t be that way is not the point;it is what it is.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Mochyn du wrote:I liked Jorge Vaca and also Jeff Harding.  Limited but game boxers who could win on somebody better’s off night.  Boxing is full of those.  They deserve NOT to be lumped in with the likes of Ngannou but Fury is a disgrace to boxing who lazes his way to wins.  All money and no honour.

Why would anyone enjoy Jorge Vaca ??........A stiff that only threw one twos.....Brown v Vaca told us everything.....

Down six times in three rounds..

Whatever happens in Ngannou v AJ the fact a non boxer is probably the third most lucrative Heavy in the sport at 0-1 tells us everything and opens the door for more new arrivals...

Sad.

Yeah well I read your post as comparing guys like Vaca with Ngannou which I thought unfair. At least Vaca was a boxer. I guess I had a sweet spot for Vaca as I was not overly fond of Honeyghan at the time. But limited boxers winning straps is part of the business. Steve Little had no business beating Michael Nunn but it happens.

I agree that Ngannou opens the door for non boxers but Fury is a waster. He could have cleaned up by now, putting away Joshua, Usyk in the process but he would rather fight Wilder and Chisora in best of seven and take 18 months off in between fights.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Whatever happens in Ngannou v AJ the fact a non boxer is probably the third most lucrative Heavy in the sport at 0-1 tells us everything and opens the door for more new arrivals...

Sad.

What I'd say to this, is that Ngannou seems to be the exception, rather than the rule. He's an absolute beast who can throw hands and has genuine power, don't let Ngannou being a freak of nature trick you into thinking anyone from the MMA world could waltz into the Heavyweight Division and be moderately successful.

Marky wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Whatever happens in Ngannou v AJ the fact a non boxer is probably the third most lucrative Heavy in the sport at 0-1 tells us everything and opens the door for more new arrivals...

Sad.

What I'd say to this, is that Ngannou seems to be the exception, rather than the rule. He's an absolute beast who can throw hands and has genuine power, don't let Ngannou being a freak of nature trick you into thinking anyone from the MMA world could waltz into the Heavyweight Division and be moderately successful.

You think he could beat Chisora ??........I don't...

Difference is Fury trained properly for Chisora.........But your observation hasn't been refuted yet in fairness......Maybe he is a one in a million guy.

I doubt it myself.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Marky wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Whatever happens in Ngannou v AJ the fact a non boxer is probably the third most lucrative Heavy in the sport at 0-1 tells us everything and opens the door for more new arrivals...

Sad.

What I'd say to this, is that Ngannou seems to be the exception, rather than the rule. He's an absolute beast who can throw hands and has genuine power, don't let Ngannou being a freak of nature trick you into thinking anyone from the MMA world could waltz into the Heavyweight Division and be moderately successful.

You think he could beat Chisora ??........I don't...

Difference is Fury trained properly for Chisora.........But your observation hasn't been refuted yet in fairness......Maybe he is a one in a million guy.

I doubt it myself.

You're right that Fury didn't train properly for Ngannou. Joshua should comfortably beat Ngannou and he will definitely train properly.

If Chisora went to war with Ngannou, who knows what would happen. But any competent Heavyweight with the right training and gameplan comfortably beats Ngannou.

My point is more:
Competent and prepared Heavyweights > Ngannou > Underprepared Heavyweights > Other MMA Heavyweights

Marky wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Marky wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Whatever happens in Ngannou v AJ the fact a non boxer is probably the third most lucrative Heavy in the sport at 0-1 tells us everything and opens the door for more new arrivals...

Sad.

What I'd say to this, is that Ngannou seems to be the exception, rather than the rule. He's an absolute beast who can throw hands and has genuine power, don't let Ngannou being a freak of nature trick you into thinking anyone from the MMA world could waltz into the Heavyweight Division and be moderately successful.

You think he could beat Chisora ??........I don't...

Difference is Fury trained properly for Chisora.........But your observation hasn't been refuted yet in fairness......Maybe he is a one in a million guy.

I doubt it myself.

You're right that Fury didn't train properly for Ngannou. Joshua should comfortably beat Ngannou and he will definitely train properly.

If Chisora went to war with Ngannou, who knows what would happen. But any competent Heavyweight with the right training and gameplan comfortably beats Ngannou.

My point is more:
Competent and prepared Heavyweights > Ngannou > Underprepared Heavyweights > Other MMA Heavyweights

There aren't any really competently prepared Heavies these days.....Before the 80s you had to clear out the other contenders to get a shot...

As for the 80s Heavies.....They had long Amateur careers....Tubbs fought Page about 8 times as an amateur.....Fought Mitch Green....Fought all the Cuban greats......As did Dokes and Tate......

Tubbs was 240-13 as an Amateur....Was the American Amateur champion.....and I know he beat the Russian who won silver at the 1980 Olympic Games the US boycotted.....

Witherspoon...Page.....Tubbs etc also sparred lots of rounds with Ali and Jimmy Young.....Ken Norton etc....

Amusing how Tubbs and Witherspoon at 6ft 3 were considered slobs........Everyone is 6ft 4 and 260 now...

Anthony Joshua absolutely destroyed Francis Ngannou inside two rounds.

For me, the biggest loser in this is Tyson Fury, who has been shown up, considering his hyperbole about how Ngannou took his best shots and survived.

The only explanation is that Fury did not properly prepare for Ngannou, and Joshua clearly did. Otherwise, I'm at a loss.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Marky wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Marky wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Whatever happens in Ngannou v AJ the fact a non boxer is probably the third most lucrative Heavy in the sport at 0-1 tells us everything and opens the door for more new arrivals...

Sad.

What I'd say to this, is that Ngannou seems to be the exception, rather than the rule. He's an absolute beast who can throw hands and has genuine power, don't let Ngannou being a freak of nature trick you into thinking anyone from the MMA world could waltz into the Heavyweight Division and be moderately successful.

You think he could beat Chisora ??........I don't...

Difference is Fury trained properly for Chisora.........But your observation hasn't been refuted yet in fairness......Maybe he is a one in a million guy.

I doubt it myself.

You're right that Fury didn't train properly for Ngannou. Joshua should comfortably beat Ngannou and he will definitely train properly.

If Chisora went to war with Ngannou, who knows what would happen. But any competent Heavyweight with the right training and gameplan comfortably beats Ngannou.

My point is more:
Competent and prepared Heavyweights > Ngannou > Underprepared Heavyweights > Other MMA Heavyweights

There aren't any really competently prepared Heavies these days.....Before the 80s you had to clear out the other contenders to get a shot...

As for the 80s Heavies.....They had long Amateur careers....Tubbs fought Page about 8 times as an amateur.....Fought Mitch Green....Fought all the Cuban greats......As did Dokes and Tate......

Tubbs was 240-13 as an Amateur....Was the American Amateur champion.....and I know he beat the Russian who won silver at the 1980 Olympic Games the US boycotted.....

Witherspoon...Page.....Tubbs etc also sparred lots of rounds with Ali and Jimmy Young.....Ken Norton etc....

Amusing how Tubbs and Witherspoon at 6ft 3 were considered slobs........Everyone is 6ft 4 and 260 now...

Pinklon Thomas won the Green belt, ironically against Witherspoon, and he only fought three Amateur fights. The past is a wonderful place champ, but the reality is anyone 6'3 220lbs in the 80s was a 6 month run off of cocaine away from making a run in the division.

Marky wrote:Anthony Joshua absolutely destroyed Francis Ngannou inside two rounds.

For me, the biggest loser in this is Tyson Fury, who has been shown up, considering his hyperbole about how Ngannou took his best shots and survived.

The only explanation is that Fury did not properly prepare for Ngannou, and Joshua clearly did. Otherwise, I'm at a loss.

It is amusing seeing how Anthony Joshua competently smashing Ngannou has apparently made Fury's embarassing display more understandable, like the two are somehow related. Fury came in at 277, which is like 4lbs bigger than he came in for Wilder. Yeah he looked softer, but I think the real truth is Fury has been who he has been because he comes in 25-50lbs bigger than everyone else. Ngannou was as big as him, and his jab-grab, punch and smother nonsense couldn't work because Ngannou could throwing him into row 26 if he wanted to.

I didn't bother watching the fight as it was a foregone conclusion; AJ throws that right hand too correctly for a novice and for all the talk of N'Gannous power there's a big difference between being a puncher in MMA and in boxing.

Raf is correct with his summation of Fury's clutch tactics, it only works when you have a strength advantage otherwise you just end up getting pushed off.

Not the greatest AJ fan and his simpering promoter Hearn saying he's the baddest Man on the planet while the guy who outclassed him twice is still champ is the usual expected puke from the idiot's mouth.......However a big thankyou to AJ for completely destroying a "crossover" fighter and hopefully starting the end of this nonsense.....

You can't learn Boxing in months and he had no idea what to do with a guy that punched hard and straight...In fairness Wlad had the same problem (Sanders) but he had other gifts..

Bye Francis..Don't come back.

kingraf wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Marky wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Marky wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Whatever happens in Ngannou v AJ the fact a non boxer is probably the third most lucrative Heavy in the sport at 0-1 tells us everything and opens the door for more new arrivals...

Sad.

What I'd say to this, is that Ngannou seems to be the exception, rather than the rule. He's an absolute beast who can throw hands and has genuine power, don't let Ngannou being a freak of nature trick you into thinking anyone from the MMA world could waltz into the Heavyweight Division and be moderately successful.

You think he could beat Chisora ??........I don't...

Difference is Fury trained properly for Chisora.........But your observation hasn't been refuted yet in fairness......Maybe he is a one in a million guy.

I doubt it myself.

You're right that Fury didn't train properly for Ngannou. Joshua should comfortably beat Ngannou and he will definitely train properly.

If Chisora went to war with Ngannou, who knows what would happen. But any competent Heavyweight with the right training and gameplan comfortably beats Ngannou.

My point is more:
Competent and prepared Heavyweights > Ngannou > Underprepared Heavyweights > Other MMA Heavyweights

There aren't any really competently prepared Heavies these days.....Before the 80s you had to clear out the other contenders to get a shot...

As for the 80s Heavies.....They had long Amateur careers....Tubbs fought Page about 8 times as an amateur.....Fought Mitch Green....Fought all the Cuban greats......As did Dokes and Tate......

Tubbs was 240-13 as an Amateur....Was the American Amateur champion.....and I know he beat the Russian who won silver at the 1980 Olympic Games the US boycotted.....

Witherspoon...Page.....Tubbs etc also sparred lots of rounds with Ali and Jimmy Young.....Ken Norton etc....

Amusing how Tubbs and Witherspoon at 6ft 3 were considered slobs........Everyone is 6ft 4 and 260 now...

Pinklon Thomas won the Green belt, ironically against Witherspoon, and he only fought three Amateur fights. The past is a wonderful place champ, but the reality is anyone 6'3 220lbs in the 80s was a 6 month run off of cocaine away from making a run in the division.

Missed this rather churlish offering......The past is a wonderful place.....

*80s Heavies........Tate won a bronze in the 76 Olympics...........Dokes lost in the final of the trials to Tate and lost in other big competitions to the best Cubans...Tubbs and Page were both decorated amateurs who took on the cream like Stevenson....Coetzee had over 200 amateur bouts......Tyson made the Olympic trials and had extensive amateur experience....Holy won a bronze in LA........Biggs won gold......Weaver spent his time in the marine corps boxing and fought in the Golden gloves and other tournaments...

Wow I've been told...

I see you've skipped Witherspoon having previously listed him because he lost to a 3-fight amateur which doesn't quite suit your narrative. Cute. Tyson fought all of 27 amateur fights, which is less than Wilder, so again, you're not making the point you think you're making.

Chisora beats Usyk
Joshua beats Usyk
Joshua beats Usyk 2 Electric boogaloo
DuBois beats Usyk

Honestly I'm not sure you ever know what you're talking about, but clearly, you definitely don't know what you're talking about when you develop a blind spot. Bless you though, you're basically all that keeps this husk floating

Moving forward - Be interesting to see what happens. The first Fury-Usyk fight should in theory break up the belts - Hrgovich vs TBA for the IBF belt seems nailed on. But I've got a sneaking suspicion that the man at accounts in the IBF offices will likely point to the fact that they're gonna make £3.6m each fight in the two-fight series. If the IBF belt becomes vacant, I think AJ-Hrgovich at the O2 later in the year is probably AJ's next move. If the belts don't break up, I wonder if he doesn't go after Parker, ie someone he knows and has beat before, for the WBA #1 contendership, to make himself a mandatory.

Fury, I think this fight does point to the fact that the tank might truly be running on E. Yes, AJ has always been the better athlete and striker, but I don't buy that the heavyweight champion of the World needs some fortunate refereeing (Ngannou would feel he should have had a second knockdown, and the elbow coulda easily been a point deduction) to beat a novice and the only issue was that he "didn't prepare". He's had 3 elbow surgeries in elbow surgeries in three years, and every time he's on screen he looks like his nose is a little itchy. Bit like them amateur trained 80s fighters. I don't know if physically he's still got, and equally, I'm not sure if mentally he's got it. Somewhere north of £150m for the Usyk fights, and I wonder if win or lose, he'll duck out of the limelight for retirement #3.

kingraf wrote:I see you've skipped Witherspoon having previously listed him because he lost to a 3-fight amateur which doesn't quite suit your narrative. Cute. Tyson fought all of 27 amateur fights, which is less than Wilder, so again, you're not making the point you think you're making.

Chisora beats Usyk
Joshua beats Usyk
Joshua beats Usyk 2 Electric boogaloo
DuBois beats Usyk

Honestly I'm not sure you ever know what you're talking about, but clearly, you definitely don't know what you're talking about when you develop a blind spot. Bless you though, you're basically all that keeps this husk floating

Tyson won gold at the Junior Olympics and won the golden gloves while fighting the best Amateurs of his day including gold medallist Tillman more than once.....

Offering up a few exceptions to the rule doesn't change the "Consensus" view that being a top amateur helps in the pro game..

Just be told for once in your life...Now you can move on !!