England U20s Six Nations

First topic message reminder :

Squad has been named for the Italy game.  


15 Ben Redshaw (Newcastle Falcons)
14 Toby Cousins (Northampton Saints) *
13 Ben Waghorn (Harlequins) *
12 Sean Kerr (Harlequins)
11 Alex Wills (Sale Sharks) *

10 Rory Taylor (Gloucester Rugby)
9 Archie McParland (Northampton Saints)

1 Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale Sharks) *
2 Craig Wright (Northampton Saints) *
3 Billy Sela (Bath Rugby)
4 Olamide Sodeke (Saracens)
5 Junior Kpoku (Racing 92)
6 Finn Carnduff (c) (Leicester Tigers) *
7 Henry Pollock (Northampton Saints)
8 Zach Carr (Harlequins) *


Replacements

16 Jacob Oliver (Newcastle Falcons)
17 Scott Kirk (Bath Rugby)
18 James Halliwell (Bristol Bears) *
19 Joe Bailey (Exeter Chiefs) *
20 Nathan Michelow (Saracens) *
21 Ben Douglas (Newcastle Falcons)
22 Josh Bellamy (Harlequins)
23 Ollie Spencer (Newcastle)

Some good players, the two starting props are beasts for this level, both exceptional in the loose.  There are quite a few other recognisable names in there (and ones I'm not too familiar with).  To be honest we could do with another strong generation.  The last couple of tournaments the performances have been pretty underwhelming.

mountain man wrote:By the way think female commentator is Clare Thomas if anyone interested.
I think she's ok. I also don't mind Sarah Orchard who is often on rugby union daily podcasts.

We'll agree to disagree...

That forward pass sums it up nicely for me. Athletes playing rugby rather than rugby players who are athletes. Some awful skills from England tonight mixed in with some pretty powerful plays. With the territory and possession we should be out of sight.

I often find our U20s frustrating. They show flashes of brilliance, like they could be a properly good team if things would just click for them.

Last pass looked a bit forward?

Can we see rhat pass again please....

Notice the Scottish commentator isn't asking for that one....

It's frustrating as we are going for size rather than skill. But I guess that's the modern game ‍�

Yes it was forward. But mom got turned over numerous times yet still gets mom? Scottish 7 stopped his team being steam rollered imo. He should be mom.

One of those a game guaranteed at lineout, doesn't matter if it has happened all game, the ref will randomly pick an instance to penalise it.

Definitely forwards - where was the TMO that time. Clear and obvious as his feet were on the line when passed and caught well into the 22 and it wasn't momentum ...

Cumbrian wrote:One of those a game guaranteed at lineout, doesn't matter if it has happened all game, the ref will randomly pick an instance to penalise it.

Making sure he ticks everything off his list for the game ...

There were errors but I thought England looked a lot better than last match. I'd be happy for same score line tomorrow. And a bit surprised.

mountain man wrote:By the way think female commentator is Clare Thomas if anyone interested.
I think she's ok. I also don't mind Sarah Orchard who is often on rugby union daily podcasts.

I wonder if she can breathe without talking?

lostinwales wrote:

mountain man wrote:By the way think female commentator is Clare Thomas if anyone interested.
I think she's ok. I also don't mind Sarah Orchard who is often on rugby union daily podcasts.

I wonder if she can breathe without talking?

Commentators who don't like to talk don't tend to stay employed for very long.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

mountain man wrote:By the way think female commentator is Clare Thomas if anyone interested.
I think she's ok. I also don't mind Sarah Orchard who is often on rugby union daily podcasts.

I wonder if she can breathe without talking?

Commentators who don't like to talk don't tend to stay employed for very long.

Agreed but there is a balance. I really try not to get wound up by commentators but she really wasn't good. Not Starmer-Smith bad but not good

Italy U20's beat France!

Once again I saw my boy Henry Pollock looking real edgy. He really can be so good, and already is at U20. A few times he looked like Scotland got under his skin and to me was getting a bit overly niggly (is that a word?) and right on the hairy edge of being penalised. I'm sure other teams already know this. On the other hand, if he cleans this up or learns to ignore the occasional niggle, the sky is the limit. He is that good.

lostinwales wrote:Italy U20's beat France!

Santo cielo!
Putain de merde !

Yoda wrote:It's frustrating as we are going for size rather than skill. But I guess that's the modern game ‍�

I'm not concerned by that per se....

I think the seniors are missing some brutes.IF a couple of these can add a bit of finesse to their bulk then they could really move forward. Give the seniors a nice balance.

But just having bulk isn't the answer at the next level...

I thought there was better back play than first two matches. Bit disappointed in Fasogbon when he got on. He is huge but looked a bit disinterested and trundled around a bit. Was hoping to see him carry a bit, but was rather passive I thought.

You read my kind about Fasogabon Mm....I thought he wasn't near the starter.

Apparently he's been out for 4 months with injury..so maybe just finding his feet.

lostinwales wrote:Italy U20's beat France!

I saw that. Cracking result

Geordie wrote:You read my kind about Fasogabon Mm....I thought he wasn't near the starter.

Apparently he's been out for 4 months with injury..so maybe just finding his feet.

He did carry a bit when we were close to their line late on, including one moment when he more or less picked up our ball carrier, but outside of that he inspected a lot of rucks

doctor_grey wrote:Once again I saw my boy Henry Pollock looking real edgy.  He really can be so good, and already is at U20.  A few times he looked like Scotland got under his skin and to me was getting a bit overly niggly (is that a word?) and right on the hairy edge of being penalised.  I'm sure other teams already know this.  On the other hand, if he cleans this up or learns to ignore the occasional niggle, the sky is the limit.  He is that good.  

He has energy certainly but for me was outplayed by the Scottish 7. He needs direction from a senior head who will no doubt beat some game sense into him. Less niggle more graft especially clearing rucks. If he gets his primary jobs nailed then that natural energy and skill will be the icing on the cake.

Ah he's young and full of piss and vinegar. As long as he doesn't chin someone and get sent off I'm all for some (controlled) aggression.

Agree Good to have some aggression on the pitch...its bene coached out of Sinckler and Gwnge..Too much.

That Scotland 7 though..Freddie Douglas I think...wow..big future. Should have been MOTM really.

Really good piece on the BeeB about Henry Pollock; I didn't know his mentor was the great Richard Hill, it explains a lot about how he is so mature a young player at only 19 in the flashpoint position of open side flanker:

"The Under-20 Six Nations is producing ready-made senior internationals quicker than ever before.

England flanker Chandler Cunningham-South played in the competition last season and is pushing for a senior start after impressive cameos from the bench in this year's Six Nations.

In 2022, full-back Henry Arundell caught the eye with a length-of-the-field try against Scotland before playing under Eddie Jones during England's tour of Australia.

The name to remember this campaign is Henry Pollock.

The 19-year-old put in back-to-back player-of-the-match performances in England's opening two victories over Italy and Wales, which included a hat-trick of tries in Treviso.

"It shows you that you aren't too far away, especially with what Chandler did, coming off the back of the Under-20 World Cup and going straight into the first-team squad," Pollock told BBC Sport.

"But in my experience I can't think about that yet. I have to keep playing well for under-20s, and after under-20s see what happens."

The Northampton Saints flanker, who will still be eligible for the under-20s next season, made his Premiership debut in November against Leicester Tigers.

An all-action 30-minute cameo, which included a run down the wing and a jackal turnover on his own line, showed why his potential is so high.

He has been using 2003 World Cup-winning open-side flanker Richard Hill - now the England team manager - as his mentor.

"He has been in touch with me week in and week out," Pollock added. "He came to the Scotland game and he has talked about stuff I don't do right.

"Like work-rate off the ball or on kick chase - not dropping back early. Little pointers that maybe other coaches wouldn't pick up, but because he is such a high-level coach having played at such a high level, he is very knowledgeable in that aspect."

Born in 2005, Pollock missed Hill's impactful performance in the World Cup final in England's win against Australia.

Instead, Michael Hooper's role in helping the Wallabies reach the World Cup final in 2015 caught the eye of a 10-year-old Pollock, who sees similarities with the former Australia captain in terms of his size and speed.

"When I was younger, I would look up to Michael Hooper," he said. "The way he uses his size to his maximum potential.

"He has gone from strength to strength and now is playing sevens, which is something I want to do when I am his age."

The teenager's speed and footwork for his opening try against Italy showed why he would be a good fit for sevens.

Add in a length-of-the-field solo try while on loan at Bedford Blues in the Championship, and Pollock is quickly building quite the highlight reel of tries for an open-side flanker.

But he also wants to be known for producing "those moments that no-one expects you to do", such as his vital turnover at the end of the first half against Wales in round two.

On the immediate horizon this Friday is Ireland, who are also undefeated and still on course for a third Grand Slam in a row.

However, a bonus-point win for England in Bath would seal the title for the first time since 2021.

"Ireland being such an experienced team is something we do talk about," Pollock said.

"But if we play to our maximum I believe that no team will stand in front of us.

"It is not knockout rugby, but it almost feels like that."

Classy player but probably one of the most difficult positions to break through into for the senior team given there are already guys like Pearson not getting into the squad. It is more the forwards in the u20s that are catching the eye though, that scrum has been a thing of beauty. Not sure how it will show up vs Ireland but looks promising.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Classy player but probably one of the most difficult positions to break through into for the senior team given there are already guys like Pearson not getting into the squad. It is more the forwards in the u20s that are catching the eye though, that scrum has been a thing of beauty. Not sure how it will show up vs Ireland but looks promising.

Yep it's front row England need more than back row players, good as Pollack has been.

England U20s (vs Ireland, Friday)
15. Ben Redshaw (Newcastle Falcons, West Park Leeds RFC, 3 caps)
14. Toby Cousins (Northampton Saints, Bugbrooke RFC, 4 caps)
13. Ben Waghorn (Harlequins, Chipstead Rugby Club, 5 caps)
12. Sean Kerr (Harlequins, Effingham and Leatherhead RFC, 2 caps)
11. Alex Wills (Sale Sharks, Stourbridge Rugby, 6 caps)
10. Josh Bellamy (Harlequins, Rosslyn Park, 2 caps)
9. Archie McParland (Northampton Saints, Ruthin RFC, 2 caps)

1. Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale Sharks, Broadstreet RFC, 12 caps)
2. Jacob Oliver (Newcastle Falcons, Barnard Castle Rugby Club, 3 caps)
3. Billy Sela (Bath Rugby, Royal Wootton Bassett RFC, 3 caps)
4. Olamide Sodeke (Saracens, Blackheath Rugby, 2 caps)
5. Junior Kpoku (Racing 92, Saracens Amateurs, 2 caps)
6. Finn Carnduff (c) (Leicester Tigers, Market Harborough RFC, 13 caps)
7. Henry Pollock (Northampton Saints, Banbury RFC, 3 caps)
8. Nathan Michelow (Saracens, Coopers Company and Coborn School, 8 caps)

Replacements:
16. James Isaacs (Saracens, Hemel Hempstead Camelot RFC, uncapped)
17. Scott Kirk (Bath Rugby, Michaelhouse College, 3 caps)
18. James Halliwell (Bristol Bears, Thornbury Broncos Rugby Club, 7 caps)
19. Zach Carr (Harlequins, Ironsides Rugby Club, 4 caps)
20. Kane James (Exeter Chiefs, St Peters RFC, 2 caps)
21. Ben Douglas (Newcastle Falcons, Northern Football Club, 3 caps)
22. George Makepeace-Cubitt (Rams RFC, Reading Abbey RFC, 2 caps)
23. Oli Spencer (Newcastle Falcons, Epping Rams Rugby, 2 caps)

That pack is HUGE!

Sodoke is 6'9 and 19 stone...

I wonder what Kpoku Jr will pick...England or France.

[quote="Geordie"]That pack is HUGE!

Sodoke is 6'9 and 19 stone...

I wonder what Kpoku Jr will pick...England or France. [/quote

At 18...

Size isn't everything gentleman, it's how you use it that matters

carpet baboon wrote:Size isn't everything gentleman, it's how you use it that matters

carpet baboon wrote:Size isn't everything gentleman, it's how you use it that matters

That's what my wife says

Just watched a brief interview with Sodoke and a few highlights and when asked what his point of difference is aside from his obvious size..he said his line speed in defence...and the clips clearly show his pace. He also comes across as quite an intelligent young man.

Another of the kids who's development will be watched with interest. ...I look forward to seeing the game on Friday night.

Henry Pollock.
Still just a bit worried about him appearing a bit edgy, but a talent, for sure.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/68423080

doctor_grey wrote:Henry Pollock.
Still just a bit worried about him appearing a bit edgy, but a talent, for sure.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/68423080

No Doc...its time we produced a few of these players...look at Ireland, Scotland, NZ they've all got players with that anger and dog...we seem to coach it out of our players...

Let him wind them up...i love it!

Controlled aggression is fine and should be encouraged. The stupid penalties given away just to make a moot point to an opponent once whistle gone not so much.
The pushing and shoving and grabbing of shirts all something and nothing as players cannot get away with anything these days.

Play on the edge but don't go over. It's a fine line.

How things change. We were talking about getting that out of Genge and Sinckler. And now bemoan it!

No 7&1/2 wrote:How things change. We were talking about getting that out of Genge and Sinckler. And now bemoan it!

Don't think anyone wanted or wants Genge etc to lose aggressive edge. It's when it boils over and ref takes action that it gets frustrating. Johnny Hill and yes even Saintly Tom Curry have been guilty of petulant acts which have resulted in them being penalised and carded. This massively affects teams chances of winning.
As I said controlled aggression is great, I'm all for it. Pollack is a needley, in your face player which winds up opponents. I hope that isn't coached out of him but it has to be controlled. Tackle hard and aggressively, carry with real intent, don't take a backward step etc but don't let red mist take over. Easy to say, less so to do in heat of battle as such.

mountain man wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:How things change. We were talking about getting that out of Genge and Sinckler. And now bemoan it!

Don't think anyone wanted or wants Genge etc to lose aggressive edge. It's when it boils over and ref takes action that it gets frustrating. Johnny Hill and yes even Saintly Tom Curry have been guilty of petulant acts which have resulted in them being penalised and carded. This massively affects teams chances of winning.
As I said controlled aggression is great, I'm all for it. Pollack is a needley, in your face player which winds up opponents. I hope that isn't coached out of him but it has to be controlled. Tackle hard and aggressively, carry with real intent, don't take a backward step etc but don't let red mist take over. Easy to say, less so to do in heat of battle as such.

Hes just thick as a brick

Rumour is that Henry Pollock is WQ. When is he signing for a Welsh Region? (Not including Exeter).

mikey_dragon wrote:Rumour is that Henry Pollock is WQ. When is he signing for a Welsh Region? (Not including Exeter).

Just after Joe Heyes does is the rumour.

mikey_dragon wrote:Rumour is that Henry Pollock is WQ. When is he signing for a Welsh Region? (Not including Exeter).

Well he has a brother named Angus, which might say something about his lineage.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Rumour is that Henry Pollock is WQ. When is he signing for a Welsh Region? (Not including Exeter).

Just after Joe Heyes does is the rumour.

That's great, after I thought we'd lost Joe Heyes .

Well Joe Heyes hasn't played for England since November 2022. Could be up for grabs in a year and a halfs time if he's not been capped again...

Not sure Wales need Pollock.

Sam...what's Lewis Chessum doing...is he with tigers or loaned out to the Champs.

Is the game being streamed on the RWC U20 web site? this evening/afternoon?
Great way to edge into the weekend.

Geordie wrote:Sam...what's Lewis Chessum  doing...is he with tigers or loaned out to the Champs.  

Tigers. Unfortunately it appears he's injured, not confirmed but also not been seen for a few months.