Who should start on left wing for Ireland at World Cup

I know there's a thread below about the best back-line but I really want to nail who the preferred option on the left wing for Ireland is. I realise there are still warm up games to come which may give us a better idea as well.

My take on it is that Fitzgerald is badly out of form and has done very little other than dent his chances this season. McFadden has had very little game time this season mainly playing in the Leinster seconds, wont necessarily be on the plane. I would say its between Earls and Trimble. Earls might start somewhere else in the backline or be on the bench cause he cover numerous positions in the backline. Im going for Trimble with some provincial bias attached but i genuinely think hes the best option.

Earls or Trimble. Depends on whether Kearney is fit. I wouldnt be averse to seeing the same back three as against England though

50/50 between Earls and Trimble, depending on the opposition and who starts at fullback.

Snap Notch

I'd go for Earls.

Earls is our most dangerous winger. But I'd be tempted to play him at fullback against Australia and have Trimble on the left. The same back three that faced England. And like the est of the team that day, they were great. And well balanced.

I went for Earls there, but I do rate Trimble highly and saw on another thread he was getting a hard time today.

To be honest Id rather Jones or Kearney at fullback. The craic of this lad can do a job and that lad can do a job is a load of rudey poo when we have a few specialists in that position. (Form and injuries aside, we do have a bit of time before September)

Paddy O'Diesel
Quickest Irish guy residing in Wales, can empty a lorries diesel tank and have the loot back to his caravan site in under 2 minutes!
He will even tar your drive, impregante your daughter and steal your metal gates to sell for scrap, if your nice to him!

If you cant have him go for Earls.

Trimble for me. He offers good balance to the back three. Against Australia, I can't see them kicking too much, so I'd go with the attacking capabilities of Earls at full back.

Trimble is the strongest Irish back and offers something that we don't have and has been shown to be a weapon.

MBTGOG, I think Earls is a very exciting player with ball in hand and his all round game seems to have improved too, but I put to you that because we are playing one of the worlds best attacking backlines (who dont tend to kick that often- true) we should definitely go with a specialist 15.

A fullback caught out of position once or twice against opposition like this could end very badly.

So for me it has to be one of (in this order currently) Jones, Murphy, Kearney with Earls taking a wing spot.

True, but that means we are cow-towing to much to Australia being worried about them. Let's make them worried to play us, not the other way around as it has always been.

I'd really like to see Felix Jones at 15 for the WC but Kidney has five games to get Jones up to international speed, get Kearney match fit an in form, get Murphy match fit, get Earls accustomed to 15.

Cant all be done, so safety first .... I can see Kearney and Jones getting the lions share of the game time myself.

Notch wrote:50/50 between Earls and Trimble, depending on the opposition and who starts at fullback.

+1

I agree with Munsty. Trimble, Earls, Bowe as our back 3 to take on Australia.

Feagh,

I'd be surprised if Jones got the lions share of game time.

MBTGOG wrote:Feagh,

I'd be surprised if Jones got the lions share of game time.

You are far too conservative. Kidney will have no problem starting Jones. He already has a U20s 6Ns Grand Slam and a Churchill Cup under his belt. The lad is up for it. He has already come back from a career ending injury and a serious injury. He is 23/24 - not a kid anymore. His head will be fine. And he plays his weekly rugby with keith Earls.

As for his skills - way better defensively and better with ball in hand than Kearney. He is a well rounded fullback.

Feagh McHugh wrote:MBTGOG, I think Earls is a very exciting player with ball in hand and his all round game seems to have improved too, but I put to you that because we are playing one of the worlds best attacking backlines (who dont tend to kick that often- true) we should definitely go with a specialist 15.

Australia definitely have a devestating attacking backline, but they do still kick a decent amount. In their autumn games, the backline kicked:

17 times to NZ's 7
23 to Wales' 23
23 to England's 16
28 to France's 15

johnpartle wrote:

Feagh McHugh wrote:MBTGOG, I think Earls is a very exciting player with ball in hand and his all round game seems to have improved too, but I put to you that because we are playing one of the worlds best attacking backlines (who dont tend to kick that often- true) we should definitely go with a specialist 15.

Australia definitely have a devestating attacking backline, but they do still kick a decent amount. In their autumn games, the backline kicked:

17 times to NZ's 7
23 to Wales' 23
23 to England's 16
28 to France's 15

I think the most interesting stat here is NZ only kicked 7 times

Sin é,

Ian Keatley has both of those as well, should he start?

We have potentially three good full backs who have all played for Ireland know the system. I would prefer to stick with these for this tournament where possible.

DingBatMan wrote:

johnpartle wrote:

Feagh McHugh wrote:MBTGOG, I think Earls is a very exciting player with ball in hand and his all round game seems to have improved too, but I put to you that because we are playing one of the worlds best attacking backlines (who dont tend to kick that often- true) we should definitely go with a specialist 15.

Australia definitely have a devestating attacking backline, but they do still kick a decent amount. In their autumn games, the backline kicked:

17 times to NZ's 7
23 to Wales' 23
23 to England's 16
28 to France's 15

I think the most interesting stat here is NZ only kicked 7 times

And lost

MBTGOG wrote:Sin é,

Ian Keatley has both of those as well, should he start?

We have potentially three good full backs who have all played for Ireland know the system. I would prefer to stick with these for this tournament where possible.

Keatley has the GS - but Sexton was OH for Churchill Cup. And I'm looking forward to seeing Keatley, EArls & Jones reuniting for Munster.

Jones is the most complete fullback though. He has the defence of Girvan Dempsey & hits the line like Geordan Murphy. Kearney I'm afraid is a highball specialist mostly.

johnpartle wrote:

DingBatMan wrote:

johnpartle wrote:

Feagh McHugh wrote:MBTGOG, I think Earls is a very exciting player with ball in hand and his all round game seems to have improved too, but I put to you that because we are playing one of the worlds best attacking backlines (who dont tend to kick that often- true) we should definitely go with a specialist 15.

Australia definitely have a devestating attacking backline, but they do still kick a decent amount. In their autumn games, the backline kicked:

17 times to NZ's 7
23 to Wales' 23
23 to England's 16
28 to France's 15

I think the most interesting stat here is NZ only kicked 7 times

And lost

I should qualify that a bit further. In the three 3N games their number of kicks were in double figures, and apart from the closest game which they won by only 1 point they kicked more than Australia.

I'm with Sin actually, if Jones plays well in the warm up games then he'd be my starting FB for the WC. Defensively he is superb and offers more in a attack than Kearney.

johnpartle wrote:

DingBatMan wrote:

johnpartle wrote:

Feagh McHugh wrote:MBTGOG, I think Earls is a very exciting player with ball in hand and his all round game seems to have improved too, but I put to you that because we are playing one of the worlds best attacking backlines (who dont tend to kick that often- true) we should definitely go with a specialist 15.

Australia definitely have a devestating attacking backline, but they do still kick a decent amount. In their autumn games, the backline kicked:

17 times to NZ's 7
23 to Wales' 23
23 to England's 16
28 to France's 15

I think the most interesting stat here is NZ only kicked 7 times

And lost

I think you'll find the All Blacks won the Grand Slam in the Autumn Internationals

MBTGOG wrote:Sin é,
....

We have potentially three good full backs who have all played for Ireland know the system. I would prefer to stick with these for this tournament where possible.

I would say the same but Earls wouldn't be one of the three. How many positions will Earls honestly be expected to cover in the WC Squad?
For me starting Earls as full back at 15 against Oz would be the wildest selection Kidney has ever made - Id stick with Jones and Kearney ( who I think is getting a very hard time here)

Yeah, I was including the HK showcase just to give a decent recent sample size to my point and because it was at the same time as the AIs.

Wasn't trying to do the ABs down, was just pointing out that kicking less doesn't always make you successful, no matter how good your backline is and it isn't something necessarily practised by the top sides

Of the four games they played against Australia last year, the one game they kicked significantly less in is the one they lost. The only other game Australia kicked more in, NZ won by just 1 point. The other two games the ABs kicked more and they won by 10 & 20 point margins.

Good attacking teams still kick a fair amount, they just do it better.

Sorry John, I misinterpreted your post

No probs

Being a realist here but i cant see Kidney starting Jones in the big games at the world cup irrespective of form. Im not suggesting Jones doesnt deserve to be in contention. He has been superb but i am questioning Kidneys willingness to go with a guy who doesnt have a cap yet. Just my gut feeling.

Stand, just a few things you should know:

1. Kidney was in charge of Munster when Jones was signed. (So he obviously rates him).
2. Jones had played about 20 mins of ML rugby before Kidney had him starting for Ireland A in the Churchill Cup.

Kidney isn't conservative about players he rates and he rates Jones.

(by the way,Tomas O'Leary's first cap was againt the All Blacks (and he played very well - all blacks didn't know what to expect )

roddersm wrote:

Notch wrote:50/50 between Earls and Trimble, depending on the opposition and who starts at fullback.

+1

+2

Earls is the fastest player in ireland Carr aside so has to be considered highly and when on the wing has played well most of the year.

True Pete but Trimble is probably the most powerful back in Ireland so it's all about balance and the tactics we are going to use.

He hasn't scored in an international shirt in a while but his agressive running style always causes teams problems and creates space for others.

It has to be Earls or Trimble

I've been really impressed with Earls in the second half of thise season.

For me it depends who plays at full back. I'd either go with the back 3 that played against England or have Felix Jones at 15 and Earls at 11 with Trimble on the bench.

In fact I'd be tempted to drop Bowe and start with a back 3 of Earls, Jones and Trimble at 14.

I think dropping Bowe can't be ruled out. He hasn't had the greatest season. Not saying drop him now but he's a legend and a fans favourite but if trimble and earls are better at the time I'd play them

Not sure how quick Earls really is as he seems to have a reluctance to beat his man on the outside. His instinct is more often to look for support and offload rather than go for glory himself - commendable for a FB rather than an out and out finisher like Hickie used to be.

Kidney may rate Jones but he also rates Kearney. RK may not have had a great season hampered by injury etc. but when fit he proved to be very successful against the SH teams.
IMO if Kearney is fit he will go, but if he isn't fit then Jones will go instead. If Jones did go I'd be surprised if Kidney didn't play Earls ahead of Jones in the Aus/Italy games.

Kidney will have to rotate players to keep them fit so it could be a case of picking the form player for the big game.

Although I'd have him behind Trimble and Earls in the pecking order I think Fitzgeralds form did improve at the end of the season and his try saving hit on Doug Howlett in the Magners final was one of the tackles of the season.

Earls is lightening. Only other Irish players who matches him for speed are Rob Kearney and Fionn Carr, possibly Conway also actually.

Said it in the post on the Irish fullback Ausker but I rate Murphy ahead of Kearney although I don't think the Irish management feel the same and they do know more than I.

I don't think Rob Kearney is anywhere close to Earls and Conway in the speed stakes.

The Great Aukster wrote:Not sure how quick Earls really is as he seems to have a reluctance to beat his man on the outside. His instinct is more often to look for support and offload rather than go for glory himself - commendable for a FB rather than an out and out finisher like Hickie used to be.

Thats funny I would have criticised him for the opposite. I think he uses his speed well but has a tendency to ignore the basics of fixing a defender and passing. Its not a problem at wing or even really fullback but is something that presents itself when he is at centre.

To be honest I'm not convinced Earls is that quick either, certainly not since his injury problems. He tends to chip ahead alot rather than try and beat his man in space, which is a sure sign of someone who doesn't have confidence in their pace. He'd certainly out sprint fitzgerald but I'm not convinced he'd outsprint Trimble or Bowe over 50/60 metres.

I don't think Kearney is that quick is he? certainly he lacks quick feet and the ability to beat defenders.

Earls is the quickest after Carr over 100m.

Kearney is slow over 20m for an outside back but used to be a 200m sprinter. Remember his try saving tackle against the baabaa's in thomond??? I rest my case. He is lightening.
Bowe isn't that quick over 100 but very good over 30-40 as is Trimble.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Earls is the quickest after Carr over 100m.

Kearney is slow over 20m for an outside back but used to be a 200m sprinter. Remember his try saving tackle against the baabaa's in thomond??? I rest my case. He is lightening.
Bowe isn't that quick over 100 but very good over 30-40 as is Trimble.

What are you basing this on pete? Have you seen sprint test data from within the squad?

Nope but I know someone who has played with a lot of the players and we've talked about it before.

The Trimble and Bowe ones I'm soley basing this on watching them play so apologies if that's misleading.

Yeah but when are you ever going to run 200M in a game? Much more likely to run 20M

Yeah very true MBT just pointing it out though. And he obviously has wheels as can be seen in that tackle during the BaaBaa's game

I think Bowe and Trimble are much faster than a lot of people think.

Bowe in particular looks slow because he has such a long stride but you don't have the strike rate he has without being fast. I'd be very surprised if anyone in the squad could outsprint him over 100m.

Trimble is very explosive and powerful and when he puts the foot down he can really burn people as he showed against bath last season.

I recall Halfpenny being amazed at how quick Earls was on the Lions tour but I'm not sure he is as fast as he once was. He might well be the fastest in the Ireland squad though.

Carrs speed is irrelevent because he doesn't have the skills or power to make it effective and being a 200m runner isn't that usefull in rugby in my opinion as it's speed over 5m-50m that's key. All that confirms about Kearney is that he is the ponderous and predictable runner that he appears to be.

Remember too that speed with the ball in hand is not the same as sprinting hence many great sprinters are not great rugby players.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8qbtSnPUyg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Lest we forget...

I agree Earls is the quickest back we have to offer though, and would be content enough (just) to see him start ahead of Trimble. With the greatest respect to him though I don't think Kearney can be relied upon. Accordingly I'm hopeful of Earls getting a few warm up games at fb.

TBH is it not just guess work. Who is faster over random distances like 100m, 20m, 50m etc

There are a lot more relevant attributes to being a good winger than speed.

Very good post roddersm.

In particular Bowe is quicker than he looks. You almost need to see him run against another winger to appreciate how quickly he is actually going.

I thought earls was doing great after injury. Maybe he is low on confidence and thus won't take someone on the outside but I don't think it's a problem with him physically.

Kearney is slow over 50 compared to other outside backs as I've said before.

Carr's speed is relevant because it's his best attribute. He is nowhere near a complete player but his strike rate is very good playing with a poor team and that says a lot about him.

McFadden is also VERY quick