Richard Webster launches stinging attack on u20s

Richard Webster has launched a scathing blast at his Wales Under-20s players after their flop against Fiji.

The Welsh team lost 34-20 to the Fijians, a result which followed their record defeat against New Zealand earlier in the tournament.

And coach Webster, the former Wales and Lions flanker, didn’t mince his words as he delivered a damning verdict on what had gone wrong.

“We have to find reasons, not excuses, for why talented, strong people can’t perform on this stage,” stated Webster.

“We were naive in the contact area and naive in our execution of everything.

“The quality of player is there.

“They train hard and can play the game, but when they are put into situations where they need to function they are falling down.

“Is it because we are not playing enough? A lot of these youngsters haven’t played a lot this year.

“I’m not trying to excuse our losses out here, I’m not that type of person.

“We’re trying to create an elite in the Under-20s, but they are elite in what? They are elite trainers, they are elite at taking supplements, they are elite at looking at videos and looking at computers.

“They aren’t elite under pressure and knowing what their bodies can do and what pain is about.”

Webster’s explosive remarks follow the WRU revealing a root and branch inquiry is being conducted into the Welsh development system.

Wales’ hopes of qualifying for the semi-finals ended with that 92-0 humiliation at the hands of New Zealand in the group stages.

Webster’s side bounced back to beat Italy 56-6, but he bemoaned his players’ lack of experience and mental toughness in the defeat to Fiji.

“We just didn’t turn up,” said Webster. “We knew which way we wanted to play. We knew Fiji didn’t have a game – they didn’t have a lineout, they didn’t have a kicking game, they were disorganised in defence. In the first 10 minutes we put the game-plan into practice and should have scored two or three tries.

“I think then the players thought it was going to be easy.”

He continued: “I will take the blame as a coach.

“Did I get them prepared properly? I’d like to think we did.

“Did we have their minds in the right place? I’d like to think we did.

“But then they go for the 80 minutes and play, they weren’t in the right place.

“We told the players not to kick the ball in-field, we told them to kick it out because we can win Fiji’s lineout.

“But we kicked the ball 10 times and we kicked it in-field six times.

“They scored three tries from in-field kicks.

“The execution wasn’t there.”



This is possibly an over statement by the Western Mail but is Webster right to publicly criticise young players like that? It's one thing for Gatland to openly slate gnarly old forwards who have been through Lions tours. The issue about being mentally prepared seems to be one that runs through Welsh rugby so should Websters ire have been directed at the WRU rather than the players? I smell revolution in the air

IMO yes he is, we need some hard talking no nonsense sometimes. We (Wales) just can't seem to cope with the PI style of play and want to take them on at their own game.

We all know that most PI sides don't have a set piece and love open free flowing sevens style rugby, now its great to watch but at in the XV a side game should be easy to play against.

How many of these lads have had or will get Regional experience?

To be honest maybe if there were more coaches coming out with this sort of thing when certain players were younger they would have a different attitude now.

It is good to hear a coach come out and be honest that they were not up to the job. ANd more importantly not sing the prases of someone for doing their best surounded by a bad lot.

I agree. I think that we need regional A teams to promote these kids into. in fact a A Pro 12 would be pretty cool. I'd watch it and it would give them game time and experience.

Just use Regional A Teams in the British & Irish Cup.

good idea. The WRU should be going through these message boards looking for their policies because clearly they have no idea what they're doing...

mckay1402 wrote:good idea. The WRU should be going through these message boards looking for their policies because clearly they have no idea what they're doing...

McKay,

The WRU have had no idea what they doing for donkeys years .

His spot on, to much time is spent on the training pitches or in gyms etc..

These guys need to be playing a high standard of rugby which isn't on offer in Wales due to too many journey men making the team sheets each week for the regions.

Whilst England don't get it right there does seems to be more young players getting 1st class game time earlier in their careers.

when there are so many clubs playing in the top flight you can have all of your u20s playing top flight rugby. When there are only 4 teams playing in the top flight you have limited yourselves to the amount of younger players who can come through. Regionalism is ok but it has long term drawbacks. If I was running the region I would be pushing for an A league. There appear to be some extremely short sighted people running Welsh rugby these days.

Have to say Webster's comments are the most refreshing and straight-forward I've seen in a long time from any coach in Wales.

There's no point being there if you're not prepared to put everything into it and that goes to both coaches and players. Most of the current coaching staff in Wales are softies, I cannot see how those either flabbergasted or submissive to losing (Holley and co) are half up to the job of mentally preparing or challenging their charges.

The current youth development structure is clearly failing. Without a competitive environment it's no wonder the players look wobbly-legged before they've even taken to the ground. From school rugby onwards, I'd be willing to bet that physical training and motivation does not measure up and effectively withering of the roots will effect the entire tree.

I think Webster is right to criticise, he seems to have the right values in perspective as he's claimed his share of responsibility and made it known to his players that they need to do the same. At least he's in touch with reality and not pretending that everything possible was done and that everything is fine and dandy. That too has an effect as some individuals within the Welsh set-up appear to think they're the dog's bollox as a result.

Everytime I see the U20's play it's full of names I've hardly or never seen mentioned for the regions. Welsh Prem action week in-week out is not enough, which might be why some players are jumping ship to other leagues where they'll recieve more chances to test themselves.

I agree with Webster, the gutless cowardly display our players produced against New Zealand was nothing to do with coaching, the players were frightened of getting stuck in and having a go, and even to make tackles. you cant coach bravery and determination I'm afraid.

What is his evidence for "having the players" and them being "good enough" ?

Perhaps the answer is not so complex at all.

TheGreyGhost wrote:What is his evidence for "having the players" and them being "good enough" ?

Perhaps the answer is not so complex at all.

He means that he regards the players as having the potential to succeed. but if you read the Article he suggests that they arent getting enough of the right rugby, where as successful youth teams like the BABs are.

That's what I'm saying though. How does he differentiate between untapped potential and just plain having no potential?

TheGreyGhost wrote:That's what I'm saying though. How does he differentiate between untapped potential and just plain having no potential?

i guess that working with the players day in day out he can see who has potential and who does not.

Why what do you think?

Send Wales U20 team to play for London Welsh in the Championship use it as a development team thrown in a couple of old heads here and there, they get invalubale experience of playing 1st team rugby in a competitive enviroment, if they can show they can step upto the next level then they can be sent too one of the 4 Welsh ML teams.

Leedscowboys wrote:Send Wales U20 team to play for London Welsh in the Championship use it as a development team thrown in a couple of old heads here and there, they get invalubale experience of playing 1st team rugby in a competitive enviroment, if they can show they can step upto the next level then they can be sent too one of the 4 Welsh ML teams.

What makes you think the Championship will be a more effective environment than what the youngsters have today? Those in charge of the Welsh set-up need to take responsibility and the regions should change their approach. I find it hard to accept that players with the skill and potential of Matt Morgan, Josh Navidi, Steve Shingler and others have had next to no gametime for the regions. With the rate of further opportunities and risks at higher levels currently operating at a snail's pace it's little wonder the players look caught in the headlights when facing players who have been submitted to a better standard of development.

Turning to another league is like trying to buy a cheaper, less-reliable car when our current model is easily fixable imo.

North Wales should have priority over a side based in England.

I actually don't think this is that harsh of a reaction. It's honest, and therefore isn't incredibly flattering, but to me it seems like a perfectly controlled and reasonable evaluation. I can't imagine the players themselves would feel offended by it, and I doubt they would disagree.

Knowsit17 wrote:

Leedscowboys wrote:Send Wales U20 team to play for London Welsh in the Championship use it as a development team thrown in a couple of old heads here and there, they get invalubale experience of playing 1st team rugby in a competitive enviroment, if they can show they can step upto the next level then they can be sent too one of the 4 Welsh ML teams.

What makes you think the Championship will be a more effective environment than what the youngsters have today? Those in charge of the Welsh set-up need to take responsibility and the regions should change their approach. I find it hard to accept that players with the skill and potential of Matt Morgan, Josh Navidi, Steve Shingler and others have had next to no gametime for the regions. With the rate of further opportunities and risks at higher levels currently operating at a snail's pace it's little wonder the players look caught in the headlights when facing players who have been submitted to a better standard of development.

Turning to another league is like trying to buy a cheaper, less-reliable car when our current model is easily fixable imo.

I think the main problem is not the premiership they are playing in or that the championship would be better... It is that the majority of the squad are not playing enough rugby. They need to play more to get the exposure.

maestegmafia wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

Leedscowboys wrote:Send Wales U20 team to play for London Welsh in the Championship use it as a development team thrown in a couple of old heads here and there, they get invalubale experience of playing 1st team rugby in a competitive enviroment, if they can show they can step upto the next level then they can be sent too one of the 4 Welsh ML teams.

What makes you think the Championship will be a more effective environment than what the youngsters have today? Those in charge of the Welsh set-up need to take responsibility and the regions should change their approach. I find it hard to accept that players with the skill and potential of Matt Morgan, Josh Navidi, Steve Shingler and others have had next to no gametime for the regions. With the rate of further opportunities and risks at higher levels currently operating at a snail's pace it's little wonder the players look caught in the headlights when facing players who have been submitted to a better standard of development.

Turning to another league is like trying to buy a cheaper, less-reliable car when our current model is easily fixable imo.

I think the main problem is not the premiership they are playing in or that the championship would be better... It is that the majority of the squad are not playing enough rugby. They need to play more to get the exposure.

Looking over the WP this season it would seem that many of the youngsters in or around the U20's have played regularly for the Prem clubs. The summit of their regional involvement was the LV= which can only teach you so much.

Not that I think the lack of regional action is all that is to blame, although it is a large part of it. As evidenced by results compared to other sides I think some of the lowest age-grades are lagging behind on player development as Webster indicates.

Wasnt the regions created to PRODUCE a converyor belt of talent.....

How come the Irish system seems to be working yet the Welsh and scottish regionals set ups arent.

Is it too many foreigners? ...is it coaching standards or methods...or is it that only having three teams is strangling the chance for youngsters to actually play....where as the french and english system with more teams encourages youngsters to play - Likes Henry Thomas the Sale prop...who played 14 times this season i believe.

I'm not even sure you can use "stinging attack" and "Wales U20" in the same sentence.

ah come now TheGG, was the absolute thumping the BB's gave us not good enough for you?

Not exactly the most constuctive point you could have made on this thread though. Did you agree with Websters points?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Wasnt the regions created to PRODUCE a converyor belt of talent.....

How come the Irish system seems to be working yet the Welsh and scottish regionals set ups arent.

Is it too many foreigners? ...is it coaching standards or methods...or is it that only having three teams is strangling the chance for youngsters to actually play....where as the french and english system with more teams encourages youngsters to play - Likes Henry Thomas the Sale prop...who played 14 times this season i believe.

I'm not really sure Wales has a problem with producing talent, what's clear this year is some players have been held back in Wales who were eligible for the U20 World Cup due to being rested for the main World Cup. Or being given a proper off season to rest as they will be needed while the Wales players are on World Cup duty.
What is clear is the second string of the U20's are quite poor in comparison to the first, we played weak teams against Fiji and New Zealand and paid for it. But it's clear to me that anyone who known anything about Welsh rugby at the moment we have many quality young players coming through.

rugbydreamer wrote:ah come now TheGG, was the absolute thumping the BB's gave us not good enough for you?

Not exactly the most constuctive point you could have made on this thread though. Did you agree with Websters points?

Oh g'wan let me have my two minutes of fun.

My constructive point is really just that I'm staggered Wales played their erm, rotated starting line up against NZ. This essentially waved the white flag, and due to the structure of the tournament ruled them out of contention for the contest before they started in effect.

With NZ in their pool, rather than conceding the tournament for a "respectable place" and enhancing their chances of wins in the other pool games, why not just treat it like a final? Without risk of appearing arrogant, NZ have set the standard for the previous 3 years and not all teams got a crack at them. Surely it would have sent a more positive message to the players to target that match, name the strongest line up and say to the players: make or break yourself here. I can imagine that would have been a more motivational line to sell than "try to limit the damage your second rankers, and we'll hope for 5th in the play off".

Good points there.

I think when we saw the line up, I don't think a lot of us thought it was that much weaker then the one we put out against Argentina, but unfortunately they did turn out to be. I think what our problem was, was that we played as though we'd lost before the match even started.

It really was just a horrible performance, and I agree we should have fielded our strongest side against NZ in order to get hte most out of our group as possible. We went in with the wrong frame of mind and it showed. As soon as we went a few tries down we just stopped playing really. Not nice for a Welsh fan to watch!

"Surely it would have sent a more positive message to the players to target that match, name the strongest line up and say to the players: make or break yourself here." - completely agree with that btw. I think the Welsh set up got it painfully, painfully wrong on this occassion.

TheGreyGhost wrote:My constructive point is really just that I'm staggered Wales played their erm, rotated starting line up against NZ. This essentially waved the white flag, and due to the structure of the tournament ruled them out of contention for the contest before they started in effect

I think you have to be mindful that it is the Off season in the northern Hemisphere now, and it is a World Cup year. Wales certainly held players back from the JWC squad, so they can have a proper off season and many of the players who didn't go will in fact be needed for 2 months during the World Cup by their regions to replace players on duty for the Nations. My understand is the player would of had to of been under 20 on January the 1st on the World Cup year so tecnically you can have players who are 21 or under (born no later than the year 1990).
So Kristian Phillips, Tom Prydie, George North, Steffan Jones, Ben John, James King, Jo Rees, Toby Faletau, Rhys Jenkins, Joshua Navidi, Scott Williams, Tavis Knoyle amongst others could of potentially come to the World Cup.
New Zealand would of only taken players who can't play in the tournament next year, people like Matthew Morgan wouldn't of been selected this season, he'd of gone next year in the New Zealand system.
Some teams like Wales use this tournament to develop players, others come here to try and win it.

Watch the game again and youll see the referee didnt do wales any favours which added a bit of polish to the BABies

maestegmafia wrote:Watch the game again and youll see the referee didnt do wales any favours which added a bit of polish to the BABies

I have it on my hard drive but I cant watch that game again sorry
I think my partner was keeping suicide watch on me after watching it last time!