Macklin was robbed

Matthew Macklin outworked, outfought, hurt Felix Sturm throughout the fight and deserved the fight, he wasn't in trouble at all until the final 20 seconds of the 12th round. Typical Germany, like Ritchie Woodhall said Macklin won the fight UD by 2 rounds and that was being generous, 4 rounds he won by imo.

I gave it to Macklin, too; but I think four rounds is a bit over the top (as was, in my opinion, the four round cushion that was given to Sturm on one card). I had it 115-113.

Sturm did produce the better and cleaner work, but as I said on the other thread, he didn't do that anywhere near enough to cancel out Macklin's vastly superior work rate and ring generalship - I know some people may not agree that Macklin's 'in the pocket' and windmilling style equates to ring generalship, but as far as I'm concerned that's the last thing Sturm wanted, so kudos to Macklin for dictating that kind of fight.

Not a disgraceful decision, but an incorrect one for me. At the very best, Sturm was maybe worth a lucky draw. There's absolutely no way he did enough to win that fight.

I had Macklin up by two rounds but with a few close rounds I could have seen Strum taking the fight by a round. I wouldn't have had a problem with that type of scoring but to have it to strum by four was strange.

Feel sorry for Macklin the performance tonight and guts he showed (still takes to many punches) during the fight he deserved to walk away with the title.

Not a disgraceful decision, but an incorrect one for me. At the very best, Sturm was maybe worth a lucky draw. There's absolutely no way he did enough to win that fight.
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I thought the verdict was an absolute disgrace, it's distasteful, how can you go abroad like that outwork and land the better work and lose a fight? shocking. I'm Irish but never been bias and he won the fight hands down, can't see him getting another shot either by being the better man than the current champ throughout the fight.

Feel sorry for Macklin the performance tonight and guts he showed (still takes to many punches) during the fight he deserved to walk away with the title.
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He was walking into a few shots being a bit gung-ho, should of moved his head more. But that said, all Sturm did was let Macklin dictate the pace, pepper him to the head and body with combinations and briefly throw some classy punches. That aint enough imo

I had it 115-113 to macklin as well, but was not in the least surprised to see the judges give it to sturm. For me macklin was the boss, he pushed the fight, had the higher workrate and landed more punches. His body punching was impressive. Sturm did land the more eye catching shots in the second half of the fight, but he just didn't do enough. The judge that scored it 116-112 in sturms favour should be sacked. Excellent fight and a great performance from macklin, he comes home with his head held high knowing that it was a typical German hometown decision. I really don't know why guys bother going out there to face these German based boxers, you have to get the ko to earn a draw - doesn't bode well for haye although I'm sure he's not planning on leaving anything to the judges out there.

doesn't bode well for haye although I'm sure he's not planning on leaving anything to the judges out there.
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Haye got the nod over Valuev and imo didn't do as much as Macklin did tonight, so i can't see him getting robbed, he's a 'name', and a champ, Haye will knock Wlad out but he landed about 2 meaningful punches against Valuev and got the nod, so i wouldn't worry, Haye did win the Valuev fight but not by doing nearly as much damage as Macklin did, and still won, so don't see him losing if he wins but the judges have a say on points.

Don't get me wrong, Towzer. I'll repeat - I think Macklin definitely won, and I agree that Sturm's work was far too sparse and lazy to overturn to difference in work rate and ring generalship, even if his punches did have that little bit more class about them.

But I don't think it falls in to the 'disgraceful' decision verdict, either. Whitaker-Chavez was a disgrace. Basilio-Saxton was a disgrace. This was an incorrect / poor decision, but I've seen worse. Even in my heart of hearts I can't give it to Macklin by any more than a 115-113 margin, which says as much.

agree completly, reminded me of kessler/froch, i think judges should have to explain there selfs in these situations.

Young_Towzer wrote:doesn't bode well for haye although I'm sure he's not planning on leaving anything to the judges out there.
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Haye will knock Wlad out but he landed about 2 meaningful punches against Valuev and got the nod,

That's two more meaningful punches than valuev landed. Besides, it was better for boxing for haye to own a hw title than valuev. Wlad is the main man in germany though. But I agree, I think haye will stop him.

That's two more meaningful punches than valuev landed. Besides, it was better for boxing for haye to own a hw title than valuev. Wlad is the main man in germany though. But I agree, I think haye will stop him.
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Did you read what i said, Haye won the fight, definitely, what i said was Macklin did more but lost. I don't buy all this better for the sport cobblers, if a guy merits the win by his work he should win, Haye did and won, Macklin never, because Sturm's the 'golden boy'.

Young_Towzer wrote:Matthew Macklin outworked, outfought, hurt Felix Sturm throughout the fight and deserved the fight, he wasn't in trouble at all until the final 20 seconds of the 12th round. Typical Germany, like Ritchie Woodhall said Macklin won the fight UD by 2 rounds and that was being generous, 4 rounds he won by imo.

agree, but i won money on strum so not to bothered

Here's what i thought of the nights action (which was great btw)


www.maineventboxing.wordpress.com

unlucky to Macklin. Career best performance by the Irishman

115-113 - sturm, I liked the cleaner punches of sturm could see a draw but gave the champion the closer rounds like round 3, Great performance by Macklin - Fight of the year Contender

eddyfightfan wrote:agree completly, reminded me of kessler/froch, i think judges should have to explain there selfs in these situations.

Kesslar won clean and easier than Sturm in my opinion

Was not disgraceful in the least. Also Towzer saying that Macklin landed the better work shows your bias. He landed more, but was blocked alot. He threw combinations hoping a few would get through. Had Sturm by 2 rounds.

Was not disgraceful in the least. Also Towzer saying that Macklin landed the better work shows your bias. He landed more, but was blocked alot. He threw combinations hoping a few would get through. Had Sturm by 2 rounds.
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Never been bias in my life and won't start now. Macklin landed the more punches, better work. Is Woodhall bias? he said the same as me. Is John Rawling bias? he had Macklin. Is erm any of this getting through?

Even when SKY were going through their card they said that other commentaters and people ring side had it much closer when they had macklin up by a fair point, and they had it at a draw in the end. Was not shocked by the ref who gave it to Macklin, but by no means was it a robbery or disgraceful.

Germany isn't the only bad country for decisions. Alexander just got an absolute gift against Matthysse, terrible decision.

You go to the champs hometown, you must get the ko.

Germany isn't the only bad country for decisions. Alexander just got an absolute gift against Matthysse, terrible decision.
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I thought it was a draw, but Matthysse deserved the nod if any of the two, he badly hurt Alexander numerous times, Devon recovered fast in the 4th though.

I watched the fight and i thought that it was very close to be honest. That said i persoanlly had Macklin as the winner.
I was hardly suprised to see him loose though as Germany do have a history of dubious decisions favouring the hometown man.

Having watched the fight, I dont believe it was a robbery. Whats probably controversial is the scoring as 116-112 does not paint a fair reflection of the fight. Had the scores been 115-113 in favour of Sturm I think there would be less of a fuss.

Macklin had the better of the opening without doubt but overalls Sturms work was cleaner and he definately had the better of it in the championship rounds. I saw it as a close fight that could of gone either way and feel it would be incorrect to call either verdict a robbery. I disagree with cards, but feel there is a legitimate case to say Sturm won.

I hope Macklins performance will mean that he finds another title shot soon. Middleweight is not stacked with quality so I hope he can build on this and not become overly disheartened as on the back of that I think he has proven he would be a test for nearly any Middleweight and worthy of being a player on the world scene.

I had it 116 - 114 Macklin. Now that means that I scored 6 rounds incorrect according to two judges.......Really?? I managed to score HALF the fight wrongly? So are the judges saying that one clean shot is more of a round winner than constant pressure and 10-15 less clean shots?

http://www.boxingscene.com/macklin-sturm-embarrassed-he-offered-rematch--40812?

Looks like he is going to get a rematch then. I think sturm will take him more seriously and use his jab to dictate the pace.

Can't agree that this was a robbery, having just watched the fight (with the volume turned down, which is becoming a bit of a habit of mine when I'm watching a fight with a controversial decision). To me, the fight fairly neatly divided into two halves, with Macklin having the better of the first five rounds or so, and Sturm finishing much the stronger. Had it 115-114 to Sturm personally, but could understand how the scoring might have varied as it did. If anything tipped the scales in Sturm's direction, alongside his jab, which was the key punch in the fight, it was his engine - I thought that he either seemed significantly fitter than Matthew, who was running on empty by the end, or just paced himself better, and it may just have made the difference.

I had it 116-112 sturm personally. Alot of rounds were 50/50 but I refrained from scoring it 10-10 as it was in Germany so sturm would have got the point anyway and I liked the sharpness and the accuracy of his punches whereas ms macklins were all landing on sturms arms. It could have gone to macklin but I dint thinks it's a robbery.

I'm going to watch it again now and see how I score it

captain carrantuohil wrote:Can't agree that this was a robbery, having just watched the fight (with the volume turned down, which is becoming a bit of a habit of mine when I'm watching a fight with a controversial decision). To me, the fight fairly neatly divided into two halves, with Macklin having the better of the first five rounds or so, and Sturm finishing much the stronger. Had it 115-114 to Sturm personally, but could understand how the scoring might have varied as it did. If anything tipped the scales in Sturm's direction, alongside his jab, which was the key punch in the fight, it was his engine - I thought that he either seemed significantly fitter than Matthew, who was running on empty by the end, or just paced himself better, and it may just have made the difference.

Can't agree with this mate.

Sturms jab?? He didn't throw it, how could it of been the key punch in the fight?

Sturm seemed to have a better engine? Based on the fact that he just stood in front on Macklin not doing anything for the first 6 rounds.....that said he gets a 4 round decision....it beggers belief.

Colonial Lion wrote:Having watched the fight, I dont believe it was a robbery. Whats probably controversial is the scoring as 116-112 does not paint a fair reflection of the fight. Had the scores been 115-113 in favour of Sturm I think there would be less of a fuss.

That is about the sum of it really. i had it 115-114 to Macklin just as i saw it without taking into account home town judging. No complaints over sturm winning, it was just the cards of 116-112 that stick in the craw. Hardly a robbery.

lets not get on our high horses too much about germany lads, ive seen plenty of decisions like this in britain for the home fighter not to mention the ref usually steps in after the home fighter lands about 4 punches.

i said at the end of the fight before the decision was read out that i wouldnt have argued if the judges have it 2 rounds either way but its a joke if they give strum anything more than 2. i had a feeling that was going to be the case and was proved right. i had macklin by one, close cracking fight and hope they do have a rematch as it would be great to watch again

Can't agree that this was a robbery, having just watched the fight (with the volume turned down, which is becoming a bit of a habit of mine when I'm watching a fight with a controversial decision). To me, the fight fairly neatly divided into two halves, with Macklin having the better of the first five rounds or so, and Sturm finishing much the stronger. Had it 115-114 to Sturm personally, but could understand how the scoring might have varied as it did. If anything tipped the scales in Sturm's direction, alongside his jab, which was the key punch in the fight, it was his engine - I thought that he either seemed significantly fitter than Matthew, who was running on empty by the end, or just paced himself better, and it may just have made the difference.
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I'm not being funny or out, but all Sturm did for the majority of the rounds was walk forward in straight lines with his hands up eating body shots and head shots, he was outlanded in the fight, and the majority of shots WERE NOT blocked by the German, you could see his head snapping back and him getting caught to the body, you can't win a fight by being that lazy in my eyes, not a chance. He threw the odd classy combination, Macklin outworked/outfought/outlanded him and won. Jim Watt is a disgrace to British Boxing as well, he has a bee in his bonnet about the current crop imo, as Carl Froch said 'Watt was he watching'

Hang on a mo Towzer-haven't you used Jim Watt to support your arguments on other threads?

Whilst the scorecards were a bit odd because like others have said there was certainly not four points in it either way it was not a blatant robbery IMO. Have to remember scoring boxing is very subjective and apart from the early rounds where Matthew had the better of things and the later rounds where Sturm obviosuly came on the middle rounds were very open to interpretation and could be scored based on personal preference did you prefer the workrate of Matthew or the accuracy of Sturm. These rounds were pretty close and easy enough to score either way based on your preference.

We all knew this was going to be a tough ask and a tough place to get a decision and it proved thus, however will have done Matthew no harm long term, has proved he can mix in this kind of class and will probably get a rematch.

Hang on a mo Towzer-haven't you used Jim Watt to support your arguments on other threads?
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He rightly said Haye was out of order for the iphone app. Hang on a minute, he almost always goes against brit fighters with points, cheers.

Could someone post a link to the fight please?

I'm not in disagreement that Watt's a T. Watt, but I just thought you'd used him as a supporting argument before. I remember the Haye thing you mentioned. Personally I don't agree with him, but to each his own.

I'm not in disagreement that Watt's a T. Watt, but I just thought you'd used him as a supporting argument before. I remember the Haye thing you mentioned. Personally I don't agree with him, but to each his own.
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Doesn't mean i don't like him, and of course i'll use who i like to say he said that if there a respected boxer/past boxer/journalist etc. What so you think it's orite to make an iphone app of someone being decapitated, when it happens to innocent people worldwide? it's sick and wrong, end of.

You may find it sick and wrong but that doesn't make it a fact, personally couldn't care less about the app

Small Time wrote:I had it 116 - 114 Macklin. Now that means that I scored 6 rounds incorrect according to two judges.......Really?? I managed to score HALF the fight wrongly? So are the judges saying that one clean shot is more of a round winner than constant pressure and 10-15 less clean shots?

It means they scored 4 rounds different than you. Two that you have to Macklin they gave to Sturm, with your two 10 10 rounds they also gave to him. Also Macklin didnt land two many clean shots later in the fight.

Young_Towzer wrote:I'm not in disagreement that Watt's a T. Watt, but I just thought you'd used him as a supporting argument before. I remember the Haye thing you mentioned. Personally I don't agree with him, but to each his own.
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Doesn't mean i don't like him, and of course i'll use who i like to say he said that if there a respected boxer/past boxer/journalist etc. What so you think it's orite to make an iphone app of someone being decapitated, when it happens to innocent people worldwide? it's sick and wrong, end of.

Why is it particularly sick and wrong? It's a piece of software and as such it's rated accordingly. It's no more sick or wrong than any of the GTA games or the last few Call of Duty games, all of which are BBFC 18-rated, but which many parents quite happily let their young children play, with alarming regularity.

With regards to Watt; it makes you sound self-contradictory if you're happy to accept his opinion when it matches your own, but not when the two differ.

Why is it particularly sick and wrong? It's a piece of software and as such it's rated accordingly. It's no more sick or wrong than any of the GTA games or the last few Call of Duty games, all of which are BBFC 18-rated, but which many parents quite happily let their young children play, with alarming regularity.
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I said above why it's wrong, i wont be repeating myself.

Young_Towzer wrote:Why is it particularly sick and wrong? It's a piece of software and as such it's rated accordingly. It's no more sick or wrong than any of the GTA games or the last few Call of Duty games, all of which are BBFC 18-rated, but which many parents quite happily let their young children play, with alarming regularity.
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I said above why it's wrong, i wont be repeating myself.

You didn't though! Unless you mean your vague reference to "when it happens to innocent people worldwide". People are robbed, beaten, murdered, set on fire, decapitated, run over, stabbed, shot, mutilated and generally treated appalingly all over the world on a too-frequent basis, but ALL of these actions can be carried out in videogames which are available at any high-street games retailer in the country.

Haye's app has been given a 12+ rating which suggests the content of it is deemed SIGNIFICANTLY less 'sick and wrong' than a huge number of mainstream titles.

Just finished watching it, I had it 2-3 rounds to macklin, where the hell 116-112 comes from I have no idea. Mind you matthysse got absolutely robbed against devon 'the hometown decision' alexander. My advice to Khan is to stay the hell away from matthysse if he wants to not get knocked out. I want to see maidana vs matthysse next.

Balti I wouldn't even bother trying to reason with Southpaw, some people don't realise that their opinion isn't the be all and end all

Balti I wouldn't even bother trying to reason with Southpaw, some people don't realise that their opinion isn't the be all and end all
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Haha, i let everyone have an opinion, unlike you. I'm 110% convinced you love to disagree with people, ciao

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Balti I wouldn't even bother trying to reason with Southpaw, some people don't realise that their opinion isn't the be all and end all

Perhaps, but he's better than he used to be. Ah well. Sunshine and melanoma beckons.

No such thing as 110% in that context. It's like the promiscuous harridans who go on Jeremy Kyle claiming to be '5000% sure' that some guy is their child's father, when what they mean is 'he's one of about eight possibilities'.

Young_Towzer wrote:Balti I wouldn't even bother trying to reason with Southpaw, some people don't realise that their opinion isn't the be all and end all
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Haha, i let everyone have an opinion, unlike you. I'm 110% convinced you love to disagree with people, ciao

Very well thought out response, you just don't like the fact people don't take your word as gospel but before this gets stupid lets go our seperate ways

Very well thought out response, you just don't like the fact people don't take your word as gospel but before this gets stupid lets go our seperate ways
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I think you say controversial comments to provoke reactions which will never work with me, but as you say lets go our seperate ways, suits me down to an absolute T

I haven't scored the fight as I find it detracts from my enjoyment of watching them, but I my gut feeling is I would have scored it to Sturm by a round or two but woudn't have any real arguments with the other way round. There is no way it can be described as a robbery though. It was a tough, hard fight with ebbs and flows. The amount of differences on this thread just goes to show how tough a fight it was to score.

Macklin really impressed me though. I didn't think he had that in him and I got the feeling Sturm was a little shell-shocked at first as well before he settled into the fight.

Not sure why anyone would suggest the judges need to explain themselves though. Thats a crazy notion in this instance. It was a close fight that could have gone either way. No robbery anywhere. Woodhalls comments afterwards were ludicrous. He said that anywhere else in the world and the fight would have been a UD for Macklin. Clearly untrue and a bit of a idiotic thing to say. There have been enough "home" decisions in the UK in the past to render his comments irrelevant.