NEWS: Darcy out for next 6 weeks

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 28 Jun 2011, 2:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby

Darcy is out for the next six weeks after the ankle injury he picked up in the HCup final. He will miss the Scotland, Connacht and first French game. He will be back around 6 weeks time but we can't be sure if he will be fit and/or ready for matches against Franch and England in Dublin.

One would assume his place will be taken by Wallace, with possibly mcFadden getting a run out or even Bowe/Earls.

Ferris also didn't train and continues with rehab.

by red_stag Wed 29 Jun 2011, 2:18 pm

He had high profile knockout matches against Leinster and Ulster. He has had several Heinken Cup games against Munster too. Outside of Premiership level he has unimpressed me.

by **rodders** Wed 29 Jun 2011, 2:22 pm

red_stag wrote:He had high profile knockout matches against Leinster and Ulster. He has had several Heinken Cup games against Munster too. Outside of Premiership level he has unimpressed me.

Look he hasn't impressed me either but I think calling him awful is a bit over the top. He's a regular for one of the top teams in Europe so he must be doing something right. Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting he should be selected but I think we shouldn't go overboard with the hyperbole.

by red_stag Wed 29 Jun 2011, 2:23 pm

No of course not. He clearly isn't "awful" but IMO he shouldn't be included.

by **rodders** Wed 29 Jun 2011, 2:33 pm

red_stag wrote:No of course not. He clearly isn't "awful" but IMO he shouldn't be included.

I concur. Sorry it was Notch I think called him awful, I wasn't suggesting you did.

by red_stag Wed 29 Jun 2011, 2:34 pm

Rodders, don't listen to him. Notch thinks Paddy Wallace is a good 12. He clearly knows nothing

by **rodders** Wed 29 Jun 2011, 2:35 pm

red_stag wrote:Rodders, don't listen to him. Notch thinks Paddy Wallace is a good 12. He clearly knows nothing

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 Jun 2011, 2:54 pm

Does anyone think that kidney will still bring Darcy even if he has only got a max of 1 game under his belt (the 30man squad is announced before the English game in the Aviva)? He may not even get to play in the France ireland match due to lack of fitness.

by Boyne Wed 29 Jun 2011, 2:58 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Does anyone think that kidney will still bring Darcy even if he has only got a max of 1 game under his belt (the 30man squad is announced before the English game in the Aviva)? He may not even get to play in the France ireland match due to lack of fitness.

Yes. Fo show.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 Jun 2011, 3:17 pm

Boyne, I honestly don't think he can. It's not like a broken hand where Darcy can still be running and keeping fit. All he will be able to do our weights and even then a limited number of them.

I think this could be the end of Darcy's international career.......

by caoimhincentre Wed 29 Jun 2011, 3:24 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Boyne, I honestly don't think he can. It's not like a broken hand where Darcy can still be running and keeping fit. All he will be able to do our weights and even then a limited number of them.

I think this could be the end of Darcy's international career.......

Dear Gordon,

It has come to my attention that you have hurt your ankle and will be unavailable for 6 weeks. As such i think is time that you end your international career as i feel that you will be no use in the world cup as you will only get two warm up matchs and won't be fit enough.

Thanks for your effort,

DK

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 Jun 2011, 3:26 pm

Honestly though.

If he only has one game in the warm ups he probably won't make the RWC 30 man squad.

If he doesn't make that squad then Wallace or McFadden may well have wrestled the jersey off him for good.

It's definitely a possibility

by **rodders** Wed 29 Jun 2011, 3:27 pm

caoimhincentre wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Boyne, I honestly don't think he can. It's not like a broken hand where Darcy can still be running and keeping fit. All he will be able to do our weights and even then a limited number of them.

I think this could be the end of Darcy's international career.......

Dear Gordon,

It has come to my attention that you have hurt your ankle and will be unavailable for 6 weeks. As such i think is time that you end your international career as i feel that you will be no use in the world cup as you will only get two warm up matchs and won't be fit enough.

Thanks for your effort,

DK

Very good

by caoimhincentre Wed 29 Jun 2011, 3:28 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Honestly though.

If he only has one game in the warm ups he probably won't make the RWC 30 man squad.

If he doesn't make that squad then Wallace or McFadden may well have wrestled the jersey off him for good.

It's definitely a possibility

Eh no...
He will be in the world cup squad. Even if he only plays one warm up game he will have a enough fitness training done to go.
By all accounts it sounds like he will be fit for 2 of the games and will get game time before they fly out.

by Sin é Wed 29 Jun 2011, 3:32 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
MMC wrote:A couple of points I'd like to add about Keith Earls at 13:

The last sustained uninjured run of games he's had at 13 was up until the end of the 2009/2010 season. He then sustained a groin injury shortly after POC's but was still playing given that it was the business end of the season and there were no other options.

As has already been said previously, during the sustained run he played at 13 for the majority of the game against Wales and scored 2 tries. Shortly after that he was injured and didn't really return to action again until October of the 2010/2011 season just gone. He struggled badly for form due to an ankle injury he'd picked up in pre-season. If we'd played him at wing during this time he'd have been pretty bad too.

After a while he regained form and fitness. This corresponded with the beginning of the Six Nations. His first 2-3 games were pretty quiet by his standards but because he finished very strongly people seem to gloss over this (much like many people's view of that campaign as a whole).

I think much of what's been said about Earls' defence was perfectly valid 12-18 months ago but he's learned a lot since and is actually quite strong in that area now. My biggest problem with Earls playing at 13 at International level is this:

Every time he gets the ball he looks to make an outside break. When successful, his offloading or pass to those outside him is actually quite good. However, making an outside break from 13 at International level is VERY hard to do so invariably he'll go into contact.

So, to bring some coherence to my rambling...
- When everyone is fit and available Earls should play at either 11 or 15, my preference would be 11.
- When we rest BOD (we have to do this against Russia probably) we should play Earls at 13 due to the fact that he's more likely to get space and therefore more likely to make that devastating outside break.
- Earls should NOT be seen as anything other than a Back 3 player who also provides cover for BOD (in the case of injury and rotation).
- Earls should not be left on the bench due to him cover many positions IF he is the best option we have as a starting winger/fullback.

Feel free to disagree. This is just how I see it.*

*I'm only talking about RWC2011 for Ireland. Where Earls ends up for Munster/Ireland in the future doesn't matter right now.

MMC I think that's a great post clear and concise. Well done. I agree with everything there except a few points and want to add two aswell.

1) His passing is not good enough to be a international 13. IMO obviously.
2) His line running is very good. Very similar to Fitz's (maybe not as good but he holds his depth on the lines better)
3) I do still have a problem with his positional defence at 13. He looks unassertive and at times (only at times) slightly loss.

Earls should be starting in the back 3 and cover for BOD as you said. I would be tempted to let Bowe play 13 more so.

Pete, stop your worrying about Earls defence and start worrying about BODs Wink

Against Wales (2010) when Earls moved into the centre early on for D'Arcy:
Tackles Made/Missed
BOD 12/2
Earls 11/0 - Thats right Pete, Earls didn't miss a tackle at 13 and he scored 2 tries.

Earls subbed on at centre against Argentina - made 3 tackles and missed none.

He missed two tackles against France in '10 at Fullback. BOD also missed two tackles at centre.

This 6Ns, Earls has not missed a tackle (unlike all of the rest of them, including Tommy Bowe who rarely gets much work).

Its interesting to see that in recent times, Earls seems to have to make fewer and fewer tackles - maybe now everyone (except Pete) realises that he is a good defender.

BOD usually misses 1/2 tackles a game - but that is the risk they take because of the way he pops out of the line to snuff out a move - you win some, you lose some - and most people think he is a top class defender.

As regards his passing - a lot of the time he got it with absolutely no space to move and gets bundled into touch. At least he has a suberb kicking game (he can kick on the run) which counters that a bit and then the pace to claim it. Earlier in the season he used to pass a lot more when most people felt he should make a run for it which he is doing a bit more - problem is that the support can be slow getting to him if he gets tackled.

Earls (based on his form at the end of last season) is a nailed on starter on the wing and he will be BOD's backup at centre.

by **rodders** Wed 29 Jun 2011, 3:36 pm

Sin enough with the stats sir, we get what you are saying...Munster players don't miss tackles! Very Happy

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 Jun 2011, 3:37 pm

I just amn't sure he will make it back in time. What you can do in fitness training is severly limited due to injury to your ankle.

It wouldn't surprise me too much if he didn't go now because Kidney won't know what form he's in or if he is match fit.

by red_stag Wed 29 Jun 2011, 3:38 pm

Darcy will travel. We haven't used Wallace or McFadden enough. It would take some really top performances by one of them in warm up games to make him forget about Darcy.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 Jun 2011, 3:43 pm

What!? No way!? A rugby player can kick a ball while running!? Sin show me the stats to prove it! It's just far too hard to believe! Rolling Eyes

I think Earls is a great winger and I do think he is BOD's back up centre for the RWC (although I would chose Bowe) . He isn't the right guy to be BOD's long term successor IMO.

Do you not like him in the back 3?

by Boyne Wed 29 Jun 2011, 3:50 pm

Earls looked VERY frail defensively against France. He kept on backing off the attacker whcih is a sign that he has no confidence in his own tackling ability / strenght.

But Sin E is an auld Munster hack who'd do anything to talk up his own whist getting a sly dig in on BOD.

Jackie Healy Rae- esque if you ask me Wink

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 Jun 2011, 3:53 pm

Seems it Boyne he was defending O'Leary yesterday! Erm

by Sin é Wed 29 Jun 2011, 3:55 pm

roddersm wrote:Sin enough with the stats sir, we get what you are saying...Munster players don't miss tackles!

Tell that to Pete Smile

by Sin é Wed 29 Jun 2011, 3:58 pm

Boyne wrote:Earls looked VERY frail defensively against France. He kept on backing off the attacker whcih is a sign that he has no confidence in his own tackling ability / strenght.

But Sin E is an auld Munster hack who'd do anything to talk up his own whist getting a sly dig in on BOD.

Jackie Healy Rae- esque if you ask me

Luke Fitz looked very frail against the ABs a couple of years ago too. Wink

Missed something like 7/8 tackles!

Edit: It was D'Arcy had the problem with France this year.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:00 pm

Well he put Doug Howlett on the ground pretty effectively. Very Happy

If there's one thing that has to be said about Luke. His defence is quite good. Everything else is awful but he can defend

by **rodders** Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:01 pm

Sin é wrote:
roddersm wrote:Sin enough with the stats sir, we get what you are saying...Munster players don't miss tackles!

Tell that to Pete

The craic is 90 in here today! Laugh

Pete get a grip sir Munster players don't miss tackles....at least not when sin's watching! Very Happy

by Sin é Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:02 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Seems it Boyne he was defending O'Leary yesterday!

Thanks Pete for reminding me Whistle

by **rodders** Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:03 pm

Anyone else think Boyne and Sin E are really the same person? Very Happy

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:04 pm

Hahaha or twins that were seperated at birth and one was sent to Leinster and the other to the shticks!

by Sin é Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:06 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Well he put Doug Howlett on the ground pretty effectively.

If there's one thing that has to be said about Luke. His defence is quite good. Everything else is awful but he can defend

Imagine that! Luke is a much better defender now than he was 2/3 years ago. I suppose no other player could improve his defence like the way Luke has Sad

(For the record, I think the one think Luke has going for him is his defence. He is the new Ian Dowling of wingers thumbsup

).

by **rodders** Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:07 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Hahaha or twins that were seperated at birth and one was sent to Leinster and the other to the shticks!

Ha ha which one is arnie and which one is Danny de vito?!! Very Happy

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:09 pm

Nope Luke-y still has the flair button he just keeps missing when he tries to press it! Dowling was a hard working donkey.

There was only one season where Luke was praticularily bad at defending. Think it was 07/08 then he bulked himself up.

by **rodders** Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:13 pm

I think he struggled quite badly against the Allblacks in the Autumn. He really struggled to put rico gear down.

However as I mentioned on another thread he put in two of the tackles of the season in the closing weeks.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:17 pm

He doesn't miss,he presses it too early and is gone while everyone else is just getting going.

I for his girlfriends sake he only has that problem on the rugby pitch.

by Gibson Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:24 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:
Gibson wrote:We all know our prime back 3 will be Bowe, Kearney and Trimble. Earls on the bench for triple-cover.

How do you know............??????????

Its very simple Geoff. Bowe is nailed down at 14. Kearney is the best FB we have and will play v Oz, for sure. Trimble vs Earls ? When did we look at our very best in the 6-N? Yup, when Andrew was on the wing, pile-driving through English defenders. His power, speed and strength give us an extra dimension - one Earls does not have, imo. Trimble reminds me of a younger Shaggy. Maybe not as good but close.

Earls gives us speed and a great step - so he's an another option. TBH, I really expected that boy to be the new BOD. He is nowhere near it and never will be. Doesnt have the brain to be.But, its unfair to compare - neither will any of the rest. Had great expectations of him and I will always remain a fan of his. Trimble is the incumbent now and is the right choice. He will have to have a few real bad games in Summer to lose his place.

As it stands - that's our 1st choice back 3. Even more importantly - its Kidneys'

Next. :-)

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:27 pm

No Gibson. Kearney is not the best fullback in Ireland. sigh

by debaters1 Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:28 pm

Re Fitxy, one well taken try against Ulster in the ML semi and one superb (and it really was superb) tackle on Howlett in the Final cannot make for/mask his poor season thus far.

If he travels it means that in all liklihood McFadden misses out. So I'll ask the Leinster fans whom they would choose?

by Boyne Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:29 pm

Well if Sin E is my birth twin, he's a lucky guy. Im terrifyingly good looking.

Oh and I wass certainly NOT defending TOL.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:30 pm

McFadden please. Also Murphy or Jones for Kearney.

I'm a Leisnter fan for what it's worth

"Oh, and I certainly was not defending TOL"
Most people don't and can't some are lunatics however

by **rodders** Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:33 pm

Gibson wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:
Gibson wrote:We all know our prime back 3 will be Bowe, Kearney and Trimble. Earls on the bench for triple-cover.

How do you know............??????????

Its very simple Geoff. Bowe is nailed down at 14. Kearney is the best FB we have and will play v Oz, for sure. Trimble vs Earls ? When did we look at our very best in the 6-N? Yup, when Andrew was on the wing, pile-driving through English defenders. His power, speed and strength give us an extra dimension - one Earls does not have, imo. Trimble reminds me of a younger Shaggy. Maybe not as good but close.

Earls gives us speed and a great step - so he's an another option. TBH, I really expected that boy to be the new BOD. He is nowhere near it and never will be. Doesnt have the brain to be.But, its unfair to compare - neither will any of the rest. Had great expectations of him and I will always remain a fan of his. Trimble is the incumbent now and is the right choice. He will have to have a few real bad games in Summer to lose his place.

As it stands - that's our 1st choice back 3. Even more importantly - its Kidneys'

Next. :-)

Gibson I can't decide if that the most incisive, informed and articulate post of the day or a load of complete nonsence. I suspect it might be a bit of both Very Happy

by Gibson Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:44 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:No Gibson. Kearney is not the best fullback in Ireland. sigh

Who's better or even near him? A Leinster kid called Jones in his 1st full season(lets see next year eh)? Earls? Fitzy?

Naw. Kearney is the best natural FB in Ireland. And he'll be fresh and ready to go. Just needs a few warm ups. and he'll get them. The only shame was, that he missed out on most of the revolution of sexshy rugby at Leinster last season. I really think Schmidt will take Rob back to the very top of his game. Cheika held him back in his last season. Schmidt will let him fly. It will be fun between Rob & Isa all right. All good.

Believe.

And stop arguing with me. Im always roysh. Wink

by Gibson Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:55 pm

roddersm wrote:
Gibson wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:
Gibson wrote:We all know our prime back 3 will be Bowe, Kearney and Trimble. Earls on the bench for triple-cover.

How do you know............??????????

Its very simple Geoff. Bowe is nailed down at 14. Kearney is the best FB we have and will play v Oz, for sure. Trimble vs Earls ? When did we look at our very best in the 6-N? Yup, when Andrew was on the wing, pile-driving through English defenders. His power, speed and strength give us an extra dimension - one Earls does not have, imo. Trimble reminds me of a younger Shaggy. Maybe not as good but close.

Earls gives us speed and a great step - so he's an another option. TBH, I really expected that boy to be the new BOD. He is nowhere near it and never will be. Doesnt have the brain to be.But, its unfair to compare - neither will any of the rest. Had great expectations of him and I will always remain a fan of his. Trimble is the incumbent now and is the right choice. He will have to have a few real bad games in Summer to lose his place.

As it stands - that's our 1st choice back 3. Even more importantly - its Kidneys'

Next. :-)

Gibson I can't decide if that the most incisive, informed and articulate post of the day or a load of complete nonsence. I suspect it might be a bit of both

Ah you know me too well by now, Rodders mate. Its how I get my points across. But, I totally believe they are our best back 3 for the way we want to play the game now and I believe Kidney does too. Of course it could change, but I think that's the back 3 he will start with v Oz. To me, that game is the measure and the base for my argument.

Shane Jennings for Captain. BOD out. Ale

by red_stag Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:57 pm

Gibbo what I will agree is that I want Trimble in the team. Think he's superb.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 Jun 2011, 4:59 pm

How is Kearney the fullback to play the style of game we wanna play?? Do you know what style we want to play adn what style of player Kearney is? Erm

by **rodders** Wed 29 Jun 2011, 5:02 pm

Ha ha hear we go again. I'm out of here! guinness

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 Jun 2011, 5:06 pm

Yeah. we've ratched up over 190 comments I think this one has run its course. Bon soir la gare thumbsup

by red_stag Wed 29 Jun 2011, 5:07 pm

Has it? Whats Kearneys style? Anyone know?

by red_stag Wed 29 Jun 2011, 5:08 pm

A genuine question. If Darcy is missing do we need an abrasive ball carrier like Horgan/Trimble in the backs to compensate?

by Sin é Wed 29 Jun 2011, 5:11 pm

Gibbo, Jones isn't a kid. He is 24. Kidney likes him.

He had him starting fullback for the Churchill Cup on Ireland 'A' even though he had only played about 10 mins of professional rugby for Leinster.

Kidney name checked him during the 6Ns when talking about our injury woes at Fullback.

Kidney stole him from Leinster for Munster. He rates him highly.

Don't be too disappointed.

Re: Boyne & myself separated at birth. You probably think that because we are both culchies. A little bit like all Leinster supporters seem to us culchies to be Ross O'Carroll-Kelly caricatures. Smile

by **Notch** Wed 29 Jun 2011, 5:15 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:"Downey, by the way, is an awful player."

Total nonsense. You clearly haven't watched much of Northampton this season. He's been outstanding for them. He is a limited player, but what he does, he does well.

Okay, you said it; he's a limited player. I remember thinking in MK:Stadium- 'Thank God they haven't got a centre partnership or we would be in trouble". I watched quite a lot of Saints once we were drawn against them and identified their very one-dimensional centres as a major weakness and I stand by that. They destroyed us up front when we met them and were worthy winners but when we actually put the ball through the hands we were more threatening. They just didn't have the creativity to really hurt us with the possession they had- could have been an absolute hammering if they had a backline outside that pack. Just run straight into contact in midfield and allow us to try and slow down the ball when our back three was/is decidedly shaky one on one. Ashton barely saw the thing unless we kicked it to him. He was the guy in their backs that scared me the most but their 10-12-13 just didn't get him involved.

You're all quite right; awful is a hyperbolic term and I withdraw it. He just doesn't have the strings to his bow that an international centre needs; particularly when he's coming into a team that has very good strike runners in the back three.

by Sin é Wed 29 Jun 2011, 5:19 pm

Do we not have enough ball carriers in the forwards?

Notch's point about Paddy Wallace being a second player maker.

Do we need a second playmaker at 12. All that would happen is that the outhalf would pass the ball to Wallace who will pass it or run and recycle. If he passes it to 13, are you just slowing the whole thing down. Most 10s should be well able to pass to 13 directly.

You need your 12 to be able to punch a few holes in the opposition's defence imo.

by red_stag Wed 29 Jun 2011, 5:30 pm

Sin é wrote:Do we not have enough ball carriers in the forwards?

We may well do. Its something to take into account.

by Sponsored content