NEWS: Darcy out for next 6 weeks

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Darcy is out for the next six weeks after the ankle injury he picked up in the HCup final. He will miss the Scotland, Connacht and first French game. He will be back around 6 weeks time but we can't be sure if he will be fit and/or ready for matches against Franch and England in Dublin.

One would assume his place will be taken by Wallace, with possibly mcFadden getting a run out or even Bowe/Earls.

Ferris also didn't train and continues with rehab.

Sore,

I agree Earls was excellent at 11 for Munster (and Ireland) from the 6N onwards, and would like to see that continue. I am merely saying that should we need it, then our best option after BOD at 13 is Earls. That's my belief is all!

He is a top class winger though, and I love seeing him with ball in hand.

Spot on - whether it proves to be Earls, or Spence, or Cave, or O'Malley or whoever supporters must recognize that because they are not as good doesn't mean they are no good. Players around them will need to shoulder greater responsibility

Gibson wrote:Exile,
Downey is not even in the extended training squad. Not an option. Its time for McFadden, Deccie. Show him the faith you showed Sexton and reap the rewards. I'd put money on him to be a resounding success. Then, let Darcy fight for his place back.

I know - I only mention him because I think he'd offer the Irish backs some balance in the absense of D'Arcy, and I've argued all season that Kidney should take a look at him. No-one can argue that he hasn't been consistently good for Northampton this season, and although he's a limited player, what he does, he does well.

Anyway, the ship has sailed on that, and Kidney clearly doesn't rate him. As you say (and I agree), the time has come to look at McFadden at 12 for Ireland. You'd certainly want to give him some time in the warm-ups to assess him as a viable option. You already know what you'll get from Paddy Wallace.

Just out of interest how many games has mcfadden played at 12 this season?

I've only seen him at 12 for the magners final and against Ulster in the SF. I thought he was pretty physical buta tad one dimensional. I know people are pretty excited about him but I haven't really seen him deliver a big performance at 12 yet.

On this seasons performances alone Wallace offers more at 12 in my opinion.

Personally I'd have Spence ahead of both.

I think you're obsessed that players can only play one position, yet all the SH (& French) seem to be able to play a couple of positions. Munster operate that way as well (Wally on the wing, Denis Leamy a centre, Tomas O'Leary has played professionally at every position from 9-15, Barry Murphy as a wing or centre. Johne Murphy has played every position this season from 12-15.

JeVilliers, despite his late start, was Munster's top tryscorer that season. Most Munster fans would have him back in a heartbeat, I know I would.

I think Earls scored two tries against Wales when he moved into centre to partner BOD when D'Arcy got injured very early in the match.

Earls may be our next 13 if something were to happen to BOD (personally I'd still go Bowe) but the injury is to Darcy and it makes more sense to insert Wallace than Earls.

posted twice

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Earls may be our next 13 if something were to happen to BOD (personally I'd still go Bowe) but the injury is to Darcy and it makes more sense to insert Wallace than Earls.

I'd agree with that. To suggest that Earls isn't a good fit at 12 is hardly "being obsessed with players only being able to play one position". Rather recognising that if a player hasn't played in a position to a high standard before, international rugby isn't really the place to learn. I'm not away of Earls playing at inside centre, and as such, I wouldn't use him there. Inside centre is a different kettle of fish to outside centre.

Funnyexile-

The idea is that BOD would move to 12 and Earls would play 13.

I don't mind that in attack save Earl's passing and hands (but neither our hugely below the standard expected of a centre indeed he's better at both than Darcy.)

My problem is earls at 12 or 13 in defence. He's not used to defending at 12 and he is bad at defending at 13.

Saw a couple of 'A' games with McFadden at 12 and Cave at 13.

Seemed to have the makings of a good combo to me

funny, i dont think anyone is suggesting he plays 12, rather that Earls plays 13 and BOD plays 12.

But of the options available right now, I'd givn one match to McFadden and one to Wallace, both with Sexton and BOD inside and outside of them so you get the best feel for how each combo works.

Debaters-

Haha if I was Wallace or McFadden I'd want the game vs Scotland! :P

funnyExiledScot wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Earls may be our next 13 if something were to happen to BOD (personally I'd still go Bowe) but the injury is to Darcy and it makes more sense to insert Wallace than Earls.

I'd agree with that. To suggest that Earls isn't a good fit at 12 is hardly "being obsessed with players only being able to play one position". Rather recognising that if a player hasn't played in a position to a high standard before, international rugby isn't really the place to learn. I'm not away of Earls playing at inside centre, and as such, I wouldn't use him there. Inside centre is a different kettle of fish to outside centre.

What happened in the past is that BOD moved to 12 (some say he should move there anyway because he doesn't have the pace for 13 anymore). Bowe is a winger and rarely plays in the centre. Anytime he has played there, it is at 13, so BOD's going to have to move anyway. Earls has played most his games for Munster in the centre. Also Bowe usually plays 14. According to the coaches, 11 to 13 isn't a major jump in position.

Anyway, why would you move Bowe from by far his best position if there are other good options to fill in. Andrew Trimble had a great game against England on that wing in the 6Ns.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Funnyexile-

My problem is earls at 12 or 13 in defence. He's not used to defending at 12 and he is bad at defending at 13.

Thats a load of cobblers. Nothing wrong with Earls defence in any position. He got caught out against France 2/3 years ago - but that was moving from position (to fullback I think) in the game. There isn't a huge difference between defending 11 or 13 (or so the coaches say anyway)!

debaters1 wrote:funny, i dont think anyone is suggesting he plays 12, rather that Earls plays 13 and BOD plays 12.

But of the options available right now, I'd givn one match to McFadden and one to Wallace, both with Sexton and BOD inside and outside of them so you get the best feel for how each combo works.

Seems sensible to me. I might also be tempted to shift Bowe to 13 in the later stages of each game just to see how he gets on there.

Fully agree with sin e! Now that's a first!

Rodders hush down and quit talking about Spence we need him at Ulster at the start of next season!

"Anyway, why would you move Bowe from by far his best position if there are other good options to fill in. Andrew Trimble had a great game against England on that wing in the 6Ns."


I'm only talking about Bowe moving to 13 as cover, not as a solution for the 1st XV. Clearly BOD will play 13 in the big matches.

I completely agree about Trimble. I rate him highly. He gives Ireland a good old fashioned direct winger, and when he gets his skates on he can really shift.

Do people not think Earls will play 15 at the WC, as he did at the end of the 6 Nations?

Lots of internal-dialogue going on here. We all know our prime back 3 will be Bowe, Kearney and Trimble. Earls on the bench for triple-cover.

The big debate is inside-centre. In the early absence of Darcy, it is either of Wallace or McFadden. Kidney now has to answer that one. He has no real choice. Forget moving our natural wingers inside - at this stage. He won't.

This is when all his best "decisions" are made. See Ross. See SOB.

I hope he has the cahones to make the right call. It could make a huge difference in NZ.

Let's get this straight too. McFadden is an out-and-out (sic) - inside-centre. He has been played on the wing for Ireland and Leinster because he is that good a footballer. That and the fact he has Bod & Darcy in front of him, in both teams. Yet he still made the Irish team in the 6-N. So Kidney rates him highly. We dont matter. TF.

If Darcy doesnt make it, it will also open up options for Fitzgerald in the Summer Tests.

Declan Kidney stated, early on in his tenure, that he wants players to be multi-positional at a high-level. Especially his Backs. I totally agree. How he goes and shows this in the Summer Tests - will say everything about the way he's thinking now. And if he actually meant it. I dont think Deccie is one for joshin, when it comes right down to the nitty-gritty. One of his finer attributes. His best being man-management - where he has very few peers in World Rugby.

I just have a gut feeling that he may surprise all of us over Summer. He has learned in the job. He has learned that some of his earlier conservatism - was a mistake. I believe that this has strengthened him. Not weakened him. Now, for the next step.

This selection-game ain't over yet folks.

Gibson wrote:Lots of internal-dialogue going on here. We all know our prime back 3 will be Bowe, Kearney and Trimble. Earls on the bench for triple-cover.

The big debate is inside-centre. In the early absence of Darcy, it is either of Wallace or McFadden. Kidney now has to answer that one. He has no real choice. Forget moving our natural wingers inside - at this stage. He won't.

This is when all his best "decisions" are made. See Ross. See SOB.

I hope he has the cahones to make the right call. It could make a huge difference in NZ.

Let's get this straight too. McFadden is an out-and-out (sic) - inside-centre. He has been played on the wing for Ireland and Leinster because he is that good a footballer. That and the fact he has Bod & Darcy in front of him, in both teams. Yet he still made the Irish team in the 6-N. So Kidney rates him highly. We dont matter. TF.

If Darcy doesnt make it, it will also open up options for Fitzgerald in the Summer Tests.

Declan Kidney stated, early on in his tenure, that he wants players to be multi-positional at a high-level. Especially his Backs. I totally agree. How he goes and shows this in the Summer Tests - will say everything about the way he's thinking now. And if he actually meant it. I dont think Deccie is one for joshin, when it comes right down to the nitty-gritty. One of his finer attributes. His best being man-management - where he has very few peers in World Rugby.

I just have a gut feeling that he may surprise all of us over Summer. He has learned in the job. He has learned that some of his earlier conservatism - was a mistake. I believe that this has strengthened him. Not weakened him. Now, for the next step.

This selection-game ain't over yet folks.

A breath of fresh air on here. On so many threads there seems to be an undercurrent of setting Kidney up for the fall if things go wrong at the RWC.

There is a lot of good debate going on here and sometimes I have to remind myself that these are all top level players.

For McFadden, 2 seasons ago he was cover behind BOD at Leinster but since O'Malley has come through, there is a clear selection policy of Schmidt that McFadden covers 12 and O'Malley takes 13 behind the incumbents. For McFadden covering the wing, this has been pure necessity at Leinster with Kearney/Fitz/Conway all getting injured within a close timeframe and Fergus stepping up and covering the wing position. He has more than held his own and it shows the rugby IQ he has that a player who was outhalf cover but mainly centre has adapted so quickly to wing play. But in my mind he is an inside centre.

In his mind too, Band. Darcy will be under severe pressure next season, to stave McFadden off. If he gets a chance in the Summer... It may be a case of Darcy giving his best just to userp him at Leinster. He is not happy on the periphery, not happy he only got 10 mins in the HC Final and fully believes in himself and his ability. These are the signs I want to see. To me, the natural order of how things should be. Push the "Superstars" out of the way. He's not a kid. He's 25. Sexton went through the same route. Kidney being the prime motivator in his rise. Will Deccie do it again?

It is something, I believe Kidney is beginning to engender.

BTW, I am not Deccie's biggest fan. Did not want him as national coach and still have reservations about him. About his ability to take what he has around him to the next level.

Is he the ONE?

Tune in.

Gibson, can I ask why you believe Kearney should play FB?

I have no problem with Earls defence at 13. My issue is that his passing isnt great as yet. (i would level the same criticism at Trimble btw) Earls best form is on the wing/back three so lets leave him there.

Trimble deserves to be in the reckoning and if Earls got tested under the high ball in the warm ups (and made a favourable impression) then i would like to see the same back 3 that played against England. Either way i want to see Earls in the back three.

Whoever gets the 12 jumper will be keeping it warm for Luke Marshall and Hanrahan by the looks of it

debaters1 wrote:Gibson, can I ask why you believe Kearney should play FB?

DB,
Because he is - potentially, the best FB in the World. Best fielder, best attacker, best kicker - we have.
Needs to strengthen his defence a bit, but otherwise - he matches up with the best. Kearney is - either way, our No. 1 FB. Get used to it already.

Its always lovely to have these innocent Jones, Earls or Fitz - for FB convos. But, lets get real here yeah? It's the feicin RWC. The only other feasible option, at FB, for our country, at this level and at this time - is Murphy.

If people dont realise this as fact, it's not my probleem. It's yours.

Please carry on dreaming.

Gibson, in 2009 all your points were true or close to being true (well, behind then and now Mils) but it is 2011. 2011. He hasnt played since 2010.

Oh ye, its a feicin World Cup, so I'll pick the guy playing poorly before a long term injury lay off and sweet f all matches to get match fit heading into an RWC. Stellar plan there.

Ok man, you pick the guy who has proved it at top level. For his club/province, for his country and for the Lions - at FB.

Amongst our squad members (and be totally honest) - who would you have at FB instead of Kearney or Murphy in a RWC?

Stop with the internal dialogue already, you know the answer.

So does Deccie. That is why is he according them the time and space to make it.

If they are both fit and ready to go - that's us covered at FB.

If Kearney is fit and in decent form he will start, end of. He (much like Ferris) has to prove fitness though and in some measure form. Kidney wont pick him if he has 4/5 horror shows in the warm ups. (i dont expect that to be the case though)

Standulstermen wrote:If Kearney is fit and in decent form he will start, end of. He (much like Ferris) has to prove fitness though and in some measure form. Kidney wont pick him if he has 4/5 horror shows in the warm ups. (i dont expect that to be the case though)

That's the key here. I, like Debaters, have extreme reservations about taking Kearney. He was brilliant in 2009 but he was shoite in 2010 and hasn't played in 2011. Yes, it is the world cup, but as logical as it sounds bringing the most experienced man to New Zealand, that thinking is illogical if that experienced man is no longer the player he once was. I will have no qualms if Kearney proves himself in these warm up matches, but he must prove himself. He's not the only option. Geordan Murphy, Felix Jones and Keith Earls are all viable - and arguably all three are better - alternatives.

On D'arcy, this is a huge opportunity for McFadden. Paddy Wallace was always going to go to the world cup but with D'arcy's fitness in doubt McFadden will definitely be given an opportunity in either the warm up match against Scotland or away to France. I'm not his biggest fan. For me he's never excelled at inside centre. But this is his opportunity to show Kidney, Schmidt and even Cheika that he deserves, and deserved, to be considered ahead of D'arcy for that spot. Good luck to him. And I would add that McFadden's opportunity could lead to a difficulty for Fitzgerald. The lad has been in terrible form for a while (close season started to get better) and he certainly is behind Earls, Bowe and Trimble on the wings. Would Deccie consider taking a more versatile McFadden ahead of Fitzgerald? I'd say he definitely will be considering it and if McFadden does well in the warm up matches, Fitz could very well lose out.

Ferris has tweeted he will be back in FULL training on 14th July

He is an incurable optimist though

Gibson wrote:Amongst our squad members (and be totally honest) - who would you have at FB instead of Kearney or Murphy in a RWC?

Felix Jones or Keith Earls without a shadow of a doubt.

Murphy wouldn't be near the squad, he's too old and slow, and Kearney has more to prove than either Jones or Earls in my book. If Kearney can find his 2009 form then I'd have him at there for sure but it's been a long time since he's produced an effective display. The new laws also favour teams with a counter-attacking fullback and one who can join the attacking line and for me this is Earls or Jones and not Rob Kearney.

If Felix jones can reproduce his Munster form for Ireland then he's the best option, otherwise I'd stick with Earls who produced his best international performance to date against England at 15.

I still think earl's defence at 13 is suspect as he can shoot up at the wrong times and there are times he is too narrow. He is a great attacker with ball in hand and running at people due to his pace and agility. His passing is very poor (in regards to being a centre).

I honestly really like Earls, seems like a hard worker but IMO his position is wing and I believe he could be the ebst winger we bring to the RWC as he has been on better form than Bowe. Shame Shaggy looks likey to miss out he was in fantastic form.

Realistically if Darcy isn't available Wallace will probably play unless McFadden does REALLY well. By the end of the RWC Earls won't have played in the centre unless BOD is out due to injury or rotation.

By then end of the RWC Spence will be the guy trying to get his hands on the 13 jersey, he won't get it for a few years but he will be the contender.

Murphy is not old and slow he is playing better now than almost any stage in his life (obviously pre injury) I'd bring him and Jones to the RWC

Finally let me say two things.

1) Earls is a Fantastic winger who I really respect but would fear for at centre

2) Gibson: Kearney is far and away not the best FB in the world. I wouldn't bring him right now so I think it's a given that he needs to show A LOT in August

RE: Earls.

For me the guy is a winger through and through. But I feel both for Munster and Ireland he will end up at 13 mainly due to the fact he has played at 13 before, is perceived by many to be a 13 and above all else because we have so much depth at wing.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Murphy is not old and slow he is playing better now than almost any stage in his life (obviously pre injury) I'd bring him and Jones to the RWC

Perhaps old and slow is a bit unfair. I know he's been in fine form for the Tigers. I think Murphy is a classy player and an excellent footballer. However he has been consistantly exposed at the highest level due to his lack of physicality. He misses too many one on one tackles and loses the ball too much in contact. Sometimes he is magical but too often he has been a liability against the best teams. He also lacks the pace needed in the back 3 at the top level.

He could still do a job as an impact player but I wouldn't be happy seeing him as a starting 15 in a big game.

The world cup is a place where new, young and virile players push themselves onto the world stage.. Announce themselves if you will. Not a place for players past their prime to try and make an impact again.

If Murphy was shown up so badly in the past against teams like France, what will happen him agasint O Connor and co?

If Kearney come though the pre season and doesnt have a nightmare, he'll be the FB.

And McF will be at 12 if Darcy is out.

In the backs, the only real question DK has is who to play on the left wing.

The real question is Earls or Trimble?

"DB,
Because he is - potentially, the best FB in the World."


Who says the Irish have a tendency to overrate their players!!?

Personally I thought Earls did a good job at 15 against England, and showed real promise as a counter-attacking 15 running the ball back. It's a great position for him to show his pace and ability to change direction at speed. That's where I'd look to use him personally, and would let him and Kearney slug it out in the warm-ups.

Boyne wrote:And McF will be at 12 if Darcy is out.

In the backs, the only real question DK has is who to play on the left wing.

The real question is Earls or Trimble?

Wallace is the 2nd choice 12 so is more likely to start unless McFadden does something special in the warm up games. So far McFadden hasn't done anything to leapfrog the other centres.

Earls will start. If he plays 15 then Trimble will be at 11 otherwise he'll be at 11.

Personally I think he's a much better 15 than wing because he gets more space at Fullback.

"Wallace is the 2nd choice 12 so is more likely to start unless McFadden does something special in the warm up games. "

Rodders, saying it again and again wont make it come true. No offense.

You do not know who the first choice 12 will be because that decision has not been made yet.

It will be McF if he impresses though.

"Who says the Irish have a tendency to overrate their players!!?"

I just love these sterotypes.

Try again Scot.

When he was on form in the SH tours, kiwi and Ozzie commentators were talking about him in those terms.

Nothing to do with "The Irish" overhyping anything.

Any sign of Richie Grey these days? Or is he too busy "consuming the opposition with fireballs from his bum"!?

*Guess the film

Wow! The forum changed the word *sounds like farce* to bum- automatically!

Thats is so cool!

Boyne wrote:Wow! The forum changed the word *sounds like farce* to bum- automatically!

Thats is so cool!

We aim to please

Boyne - I'm sorry, clearly Kearney is potentially the greatest FB on the planet. My mistake. Beale and Mils are overrated and lack Kearney's "potential".

I probably underrate Kearney because with Ireland he's surrounded by so many world class players, it's hard to shine.

Boyne wrote:"Wallace is the 2nd choice 12 so is more likely to start unless McFadden does something special in the warm up games. "

Rodders, saying it again and again wont make it come true. No offense.

You do not know who the first choice 12 will be because that decision has not been made yet.

It will be McF if he impresses though.

Pile of bolloks. You said in a previous post 'And McF will be at 12 if Darcy is out.' so if decision has been made how come you're so confident? Like it or not (and I suspect most will not) Paddy is next in line to the 12 berth in D'Arcy's absence. That's not to say McFadden shouldn't get a chance, far from it, and if he plays well I'd have no real objections to him starting but at the moment the shirt must be Paddys. He's played at 12 all season. McFadden's been all over the show and spent a lot of the big games on the bench.

Gibson was (I hope) doing a bit of Wumery when he talked about Kearney earlier. A player who's been out of form and injured for the last 2 years doesn't magically regain both aspects during a summer when he isn't even playing week in week out. If he starts a WC match without having shown anything in the warm up matches I will confidently pick an unmitigated disaster.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Boyne - I'm sorry, clearly Kearney is potentially the greatest FB on the planet. My mistake. Beale and Mils are overrated and lack Kearney's "potential".

I probably underrate Kearney because with Ireland he's surrounded by so many world class players, it's hard to shine.

Ditto for the mighty Scots....

At no stage have Kearneys performances been on a par with the level Beale achieves week in week out - Beale is a better player simple as that.
Talk about over hyping a player.

Wallace is, in Kidneys eyes, the back up to D'Arcy. Some may not agree but that is where we are. McFadden is not even certain of making the squad, let alone the team.

WillyGilly wrote:

Boyne wrote:"Wallace is the 2nd choice 12 so is more likely to start unless McFadden does something special in the warm up games. "

Rodders, saying it again and again wont make it come true. No offense.

You do not know who the first choice 12 will be because that decision has not been made yet.

It will be McF if he impresses though.

Pile of bolloks. You said in a previous post 'And McF will be at 12 if Darcy is out.' so if decision has been made how come you're so confident? Like it or not (and I suspect most will not) Paddy is next in line to the 12 berth in D'Arcy's absence. That's not to say McFadden shouldn't get a chance, far from it, and if he plays well I'd have no real objections to him starting but at the moment the shirt must be Paddys. He's played at 12 all season. McFadden's been all over the show and spent a lot of the big games on the bench.

Gibson was (I hope) doing a bit of Wumery when he talked about Kearney earlier. A player who's been out of form and injured for the last 2 years doesn't magically regain both aspects during a summer when he isn't even playing week in week out. If he starts a WC match without having shown anything in the warm up matches I will confidently pick an unmitigated disaster.

No need to profane.

I said IF McF impresses in the summer tests, he'll get the 12 shirt.

You people seem to be chicken sure that P Wallace is bascially in possesion of the back up 12 shirt. Rubbish. He never was and never will be an international class 12. Never ever.

Look, some Ulster fans even reckon that he shouldnt be the 1st choice Ulster 12, so why is he good enough for Ireland??

The decision has not been made, so despite what you think (unless YOU are DK) its all to play for.

But mark my words. If McF inpresses suffiecntly against France and / or England in the summer, DK cannot but give him the 12 jersey.

He's simply a better option at 12.

"Wallace is, in Kidneys eyes, the back up to D'Arcy. Some may not agree but that is where we are."

Here we go again.

HOW DO YOU KNOW!!!???

Form isn't the only thing you consider when bringing a player to a long tournament such as this. You think about their overall skill level and their ability to produce a performance when it matters. Kearney has shown he can do it on the bigger stages. He probably deserves to go as he is one of our better options.

WillyGilly wrote:Pile of bolloks.

Yeah I probably would have been more ...conservative with my wording but Willy sums up what you're saying nicely here Boyne

Thomond wrote:Form isn't the only thing you consider when bringing a player to a long tournament such as this. You think about their overall skill level and their ability to produce a performance when it matters. Kearney has shown he can do it on the bigger stages. He probably deserves to go as he is one of our better options.

Sense on the Kearney issue- at last.

roddersm wrote:

WillyGilly wrote:Pile of bolloks.

Yeah I probably would have been more ...conservative with my wording but Willy sums up what you're saying nicely here Boyne

Whats that?? That P Wallace IS the back up to Darcy and thats a set in stone FACT and we all should keep quiet cause thats the way it is and thats the way it'll be whether WE like it or not???

Gibson wrote:We all know our prime back 3 will be Bowe, Kearney and Trimble. Earls on the bench for triple-cover.

How do you know............??????????