Court speed stats
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noleisthebest
lydian
6 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Tennis
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Court speed stats
Ok, time for something different...here's some analysis on court speeds I did a while back on 606.
As there has been alot of recent discussion about types and speeds of courts, I thought it might be interesting to look at this further in the absence of established speed metrics. It is plausible to relate general 'speed' by % service breaks on it over a whole tournament. The theory is the faster the court, the harder it is to generally break leading to lower overall % breaks. Its not perfect but the relativity should work, and if nothing else it will hopefully generate a non Fedal debate for a change.
The data isnt brand new but again relativity should still work in its faviour. Recent results for major events show the relative order of 'speed' (i.e. %breaks) below. I've cut them into different groups where numeric 'jumps' occur...yeah I know its stretching it perhaps but hey, it makes for abit of musing. Anyway, here's the results...
ULTRA-QUICK COURTS?:
Lyon (Indoor carpet) 2007 = 13.57%
Halle (Grass) 2008 = 14.35%
Queens (Grass) 2007 = 15.76%
FAST COURTS?:
Basel (Indoor carpet) 2007 = 17.21%
Wimbledon (Grass) 2007 = 17.34%
Madrid Masters (Indoor hard) 2007 = 18.02%
Paris Masters (Indoor hard) 2005-7 = 18.56%
Cincinnati Masters (DecoTurfII) 2007 = 19.22%
St.Petersberg (Indoor carpet) 2007 = 19.87%
MEDIUM PACE COURTS?:
Montreal Masters (DecoTurfII) 2007 = 21.12%
Miami Masters (DecoTurfII) 2008 = 21.70%
US Open (DecoTurfII) 2007 = 21.87%
Dubai TC (DecoTurfII) 2008 = 22.08%
SLOWER COURTS?:
Indian Wells (Plexipave) 2008 = 22.97%
Australian Open (Plexicushion) 2008 = 23.18%
Rome Masters (Clay) 2007 = 23.34%
Toronto Masters (DecoTurfII) 2006 = 23.53%
Roland Garros (Clay) 2008 = 23.68%
VERY SLOW COURTS?:
Barcelona (Clay) 2008 = 26,53%
Monte Carlo Masters (Clay) 2008 = 29.22%
Hamburg Masters (Clay) 2006 = 30.32%
Estoril (Clay) 2008 = 30.84%
A few thoughts:
a) It doesnt back up the commonly expressed opinion that Wimbledon is slower than USO (or FO!)
b) Perhaps explains why its so hard to win Cincy & Toronto Masters back to back.
c) Rome is 'fastest' clay - perhaps explains why guys like Sampras and Djokovic have won it, and also perhaps why Federer and Coria drove Nadal so close on it too.
d) Australian Open is similar speed to Rome! Again, interesting that Djokovic has won both twice (and IW which is similar too).
e) Queens 'faster' than Wimbledon - as expected given the different grass types.
f) Monte Carlo & Hamburg much 'slower' than French Open, which itself is on a par with the Australian!
g) Cincy is by far the 'fastest' hardcourt - and this is backed up by being won by out and out established 'hard-court' players in the past.
Ok...pick away!
As there has been alot of recent discussion about types and speeds of courts, I thought it might be interesting to look at this further in the absence of established speed metrics. It is plausible to relate general 'speed' by % service breaks on it over a whole tournament. The theory is the faster the court, the harder it is to generally break leading to lower overall % breaks. Its not perfect but the relativity should work, and if nothing else it will hopefully generate a non Fedal debate for a change.
The data isnt brand new but again relativity should still work in its faviour. Recent results for major events show the relative order of 'speed' (i.e. %breaks) below. I've cut them into different groups where numeric 'jumps' occur...yeah I know its stretching it perhaps but hey, it makes for abit of musing. Anyway, here's the results...
ULTRA-QUICK COURTS?:
Lyon (Indoor carpet) 2007 = 13.57%
Halle (Grass) 2008 = 14.35%
Queens (Grass) 2007 = 15.76%
FAST COURTS?:
Basel (Indoor carpet) 2007 = 17.21%
Wimbledon (Grass) 2007 = 17.34%
Madrid Masters (Indoor hard) 2007 = 18.02%
Paris Masters (Indoor hard) 2005-7 = 18.56%
Cincinnati Masters (DecoTurfII) 2007 = 19.22%
St.Petersberg (Indoor carpet) 2007 = 19.87%
MEDIUM PACE COURTS?:
Montreal Masters (DecoTurfII) 2007 = 21.12%
Miami Masters (DecoTurfII) 2008 = 21.70%
US Open (DecoTurfII) 2007 = 21.87%
Dubai TC (DecoTurfII) 2008 = 22.08%
SLOWER COURTS?:
Indian Wells (Plexipave) 2008 = 22.97%
Australian Open (Plexicushion) 2008 = 23.18%
Rome Masters (Clay) 2007 = 23.34%
Toronto Masters (DecoTurfII) 2006 = 23.53%
Roland Garros (Clay) 2008 = 23.68%
VERY SLOW COURTS?:
Barcelona (Clay) 2008 = 26,53%
Monte Carlo Masters (Clay) 2008 = 29.22%
Hamburg Masters (Clay) 2006 = 30.32%
Estoril (Clay) 2008 = 30.84%
A few thoughts:
a) It doesnt back up the commonly expressed opinion that Wimbledon is slower than USO (or FO!)
b) Perhaps explains why its so hard to win Cincy & Toronto Masters back to back.
c) Rome is 'fastest' clay - perhaps explains why guys like Sampras and Djokovic have won it, and also perhaps why Federer and Coria drove Nadal so close on it too.
d) Australian Open is similar speed to Rome! Again, interesting that Djokovic has won both twice (and IW which is similar too).
e) Queens 'faster' than Wimbledon - as expected given the different grass types.
f) Monte Carlo & Hamburg much 'slower' than French Open, which itself is on a par with the Australian!
g) Cincy is by far the 'fastest' hardcourt - and this is backed up by being won by out and out established 'hard-court' players in the past.
Ok...pick away!
lydian- Posts : 9178
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: Court speed stats
Very interesting.....I wonder where O2 sits in all this.
noleisthebest- Posts : 3755
Join date : 2011-03-01
Re: Court speed stats
Would imagine it to be similar to Cincy as its a slower indoor hard court, not as fast as Paris.
lydian- Posts : 9178
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: Court speed stats
Very good work lydian. Makes for interesting reading.
legendkillar- Posts : 5253
Join date : 2011-04-17
Location : Brighton
Re: Court speed stats
Interesting stats but Court Pace Rating shows a more accurate speed of the courts.
Simple_Analyst- Posts : 1386
Join date : 2011-05-13
Re: Court speed stats
Now that is a sign of a clever person - the empirical evidence supports the thesis
Guest- Guest
Re: Court speed stats
Proud of you Lydian. A very informative post.
wow- Posts : 939
Join date : 2011-06-01
Re: Court speed stats
As a point of interest, does anyone know whether the players use the same trainers for the different surfaces?
Lydian - I assume these statistics are for the men only and are averages over all the matches (gentlemens singles) of the tournament?
Lydian - I assume these statistics are for the men only and are averages over all the matches (gentlemens singles) of the tournament?
Guest- Guest
Re: Court speed stats
Thanks guys!
Nore Straat - yep men only and across all matches.
Simple Analyst - ITF CPR may be an accurate measure in itself but it doesnt necessarily guarantee real world results - also, as far as I'm aware you cant find a complete set of stats for all the courts above.
Wow and LK - cheers!
Nore Straat - yep men only and across all matches.
Simple Analyst - ITF CPR may be an accurate measure in itself but it doesnt necessarily guarantee real world results - also, as far as I'm aware you cant find a complete set of stats for all the courts above.
Wow and LK - cheers!
lydian- Posts : 9178
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: Court speed stats
Thanks for resurrecting this post from 606. Fantastic.
laverfan- Moderator
- Posts : 11252
Join date : 2011-04-07
Location : NoVA, USoA
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