Wimbledon Day 12 - Mens Semi Finals

by legendkillar Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:13 am

First topic message reminder :

Good morning tennis fans.

What a day we have in store. Djokovic v Tsonga and Nadal v Murray.

I have the fan on, the phone off, the doors locked and e-mails off.

It is going to be a historic day hopefully. Could we see the first Wimbledon final not to have had Nadal or Federer in it since 2002?

Fingers crossed.

by Davie Fri 01 Jul 2011, 7:57 pm

Looks like you're in with a good shout there YI. Personally I think Shara will win in 2 but good luck for your bet

As for that semi, Murray looked like he was on song for the first set, and that was about it. Nadal looked off form for the first set but once he got in the groove it was never in any doubt. Murray did himself no favours and seemed to crack again under the pressure. No one can doubt he has the game but he doesn't seem to have the mental strength. Nadal found something extra and Murray had no answer

by ebar86 Fri 01 Jul 2011, 7:58 pm

i noticed few members in here are in ABR mode..'anyone but rafa' Smile

anyway,,well played rafa nadal clap

by Josiah Maiestas Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:01 pm

Nadal is more capable of throwing the kitchen sink in a tough match, Murray will always play too negatively in these situations..

by Wooffie Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:05 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Rafa Nadal remember is a multiple slam winner and world No.1 (until Monday) and Murray was on top for a set and a half then lost his way when he missed a sitter to get two break points. His levels dipped rapidly and couldn't really recover so Andy lost it which says a lot about his game that we can say that against one of the all-time greats Rafael Nadal. Nadal himself hardly put a foot wrong with unforced errors at a bare minimum and that is the measure of the man. Full credit to Rafa and for Andy the wait goes on.

What a gracious comment, CC.

To be honest, whilst I thought last year's semi's turned on perhaps 3-4 points, I have to say that Rafa's play from mid the second set was superlative today. This year, Rafa really did beat him. Credit to Andy for the way he played as his first set was marvellous and I felt totally nervous for Rafa's chances. A great match guys, played in a great spirit. Keep on trucking Andy. thumbsup

by legendkillar Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:06 pm

I would love to hear what the 'tennis' fans would suggest that anyone could've done against Rafa in that form?

I can't wait to see the responses

by wow Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:07 pm

Andy lost against Andy. I can't say that Nadal won it. There is a big mental block ( or like others say, bottle) with him. He should have won it this time. nadal was their for taking, a poor first serve percentage combined with unforced errors would have resulted in the same out come.

feeling bit gutted, but the positive is that I am not making any prediction about the finals. Are you listening sportslover? Very Happy

by wow Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:09 pm

ebar86 wrote:i noticed few members in here are in ABR mode..'anyone but rafa'

anyway,,well played rafa nadal

I was the one but still one more match to be won by future no. 2 Very Happy

by Tom_____ Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:17 pm

Does anyone know for sure if Rafa wins that Djoko will be number one even after August 8th when Nadals +500 comes on? Djoko would be +480 for a final, so i guess Nadal would take back the no.1 on August 8th? Should Djoko win you he would be what? +1280 and Nadal -800+500 = -300. So suddenly Djoko would be nearly 1500points in the lead and would be quite likely to carry that for a while into Autumn.

by Tenez Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:23 pm

Tom_____ wrote:Your just embarrassing yourself really - Nadal hit around a dozen UEs all match - thats going to make it hard for anyone to beat him. Murrays Serve dropping has had more to do with him losing the momentum than anything.

Actually it confirms your poor sense of observation Tom...as well as the fact you are blinded by Rafa.

If you can;t see the difference between Murray first set and then the remaining 3, just choose another sport. Even at the handshake Nadal asked Murray what was wrong with him.

I am not a Murray fan, so I have no interest in finding him excuses.

by legendkillar Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:26 pm

It's time on reflections like this that I wish Murray took Big Mac's advice and win ugly. His natural game is not enough alone.

Come on Andy, turn to the dark side Whistle

by Beer Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:29 pm

Nobody should be denying Rafa the plaudits. At times he was breathtaking. The sad thing is, Murray's serve has been one of his best weapons in thes tournament, yet crucialliy it went missing when he needed it. I'll agree with the above poster who said 'Andy was beat by Andy'. Game wise he can match Fed, Rafa and Djokovic but mentally he's out of their league and I honestly believe he'll never overcome that.

by wow Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:34 pm

Clarke James wrote:Nobody should be denying Rafa the plaudits. At times he was breathtaking. The sad thing is, Murray's serve has been one of his best weapons in thes tournament, yet crucialliy it went missing when he needed it. I'll agree with the above poster who said 'Andy was beat by Andy'. Game wise he can match Fed, Rafa and Djokovic but mentally he's out of their league and I honestly believe he'll never overcome that.

Hey, we agree with each other. Yahoo

Although I am bit sad on Andy's loss.

by Chazfazzer Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:35 pm

'I am not a Murray fan, so I have no interest in finding him excuses.'

You do seem to have an interest in running Nadal down though. Seriously dude, I was in agreement with you about the whole MTO thing against Del Potro, but I think today's one of those days where you just have to applaud Nadal and admit that he played an incredible match. 7 unforced errors in a 4 set match? Compared with 37 winners? Those statistics are unbelievable!

by Tom_____ Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:41 pm

Tenez wrote:
Tom_____ wrote:Your just embarrassing yourself really - Nadal hit around a dozen UEs all match - thats going to make it hard for anyone to beat him. Murrays Serve dropping has had more to do with him losing the momentum than anything.

Actually it confirms your poor sense of observation Tom...as well as the fact you are blinded by Rafa.

If you can;t see the difference between Murray first set and then the remaining 3, just choose another sport. Even at the handshake Nadal asked Murray what was wrong with him.

I am not a Murray fan, so I have no interest in finding him excuses.

Tenez, i understand Murray was injured and of course noticed it, i didn't dispute that if you read my post correctly, which you rarely do. However the key difference in the second set was Murrays 1st serve and the fact that he missed that easy overhead at 15-30 on Nadals serve early on - he then lost 7 games in a row i beleive?? Fine his movement effected his game, but mentality had a lot to do with those 7 games losses, after which the match had turned. Yet again your making presumptions of other posters and not acknowledging a great performance by the other player. Nadal made 7 UEs 37 winners -

Unfortunate for Murray as i would have liked to see him in the final, but you have to call a spade a spade sometimes, even you.

by wow Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:43 pm

murray was injured???

was i watching a different match?

by Simple_Analyst Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:46 pm

Murray should knock over Nadal's bottle next time and call him a spanish bull at the net, lol.

by Tom_____ Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:55 pm

wow wrote:murray was injured???

was i watching a different match?

very slightly, but we all know sight injuries have and effect.

By the way its not something they appeared to bother ask Murray in the post match interview. Whereas the overhead he missed at 2-1 up 15-30 against Nadals serve missed by a few inches and started the avalanche - that was not caused by the injury and so was more significant.

by Tenez Fri 01 Jul 2011, 9:03 pm

Chazfazzer wrote:'I am not a Murray fan, so I have no interest in finding him excuses.'

You do seem to have an interest in running Nadal down though. Seriously dude, I was in agreement with you about the whole MTO thing against Del Potro, but I think today's one of those days where you just have to applaud Nadal and admit that he played an incredible match. 7 unforced errors in a 4 set match? Compared with 37 winners? Those statistics are unbelievable!

But that's irrelevant when one players is not 100%. Let's see how he does v Djoko.

by Tom_____ Fri 01 Jul 2011, 9:16 pm

Tenez wrote:
Chazfazzer wrote:'I am not a Murray fan, so I have no interest in finding him excuses.'

You do seem to have an interest in running Nadal down though. Seriously dude, I was in agreement with you about the whole MTO thing against Del Potro, but I think today's one of those days where you just have to applaud Nadal and admit that he played an incredible match. 7 unforced errors in a 4 set match? Compared with 37 winners? Those statistics are unbelievable!

But that's irrelevant when one players is not 100%. Let's see how he does v Djoko.

Not at all Tenez, as you know; the moment he got injured did not coincide with the change in momentum, nor was it a gradual decline to due the injury effect. It was a fulcrum about a point which set off a change in his mentality and lost him near enough 2 sets. The fourth of course he played much better (are you suggesting his injury improved in the 4th?, lol). Also you have to admit Nadal in the last 3 sets was a different Nadal than we saw in the first set and that had as much to do with the outcome of the match as Andy himself did.

Good luck to Djoko and Nadal for Sunday, had money on both reaching the final, so am happy enough and the winner will be the deserving winner.

Interesting that you don't think Murray faked the injury........................

by CaledonianCraig Fri 01 Jul 2011, 9:36 pm

Yes Tom I agree with some of that.

When Andy was playing at the top of his game in the first set he won it and then his performance level dipped and allowed Rafael Nadal into the match. Rafa's level upped whilst Andy's dropped hence the end result.

by kemet Fri 01 Jul 2011, 9:50 pm

Congrats Rafa. The way he played today has confirmed why he is one of the all time greats. His court coverage is quite extraordinary.

Although Murray became dispirited after that crucial miss at 2-2, 15-30 in the 2nd set, Nadal would have found a way to win anyway. Actually I think it is Rafa's ability to make his opponent play one more shot that ultimately proved to be Andy's undoing today. This would have been a much closer match had it been any other player.

by ebar86 Fri 01 Jul 2011, 9:55 pm

Tom_____ wrote:
Tenez wrote:
Chazfazzer wrote:'I am not a Murray fan, so I have no interest in finding him excuses.'

You do seem to have an interest in running Nadal down though. Seriously dude, I was in agreement with you about the whole MTO thing against Del Potro, but I think today's one of those days where you just have to applaud Nadal and admit that he played an incredible match. 7 unforced errors in a 4 set match? Compared with 37 winners? Those statistics are unbelievable!

But that's irrelevant when one players is not 100%. Let's see how he does v Djoko.

Not at all Tenez, as you know; the moment he got injured did not coincide with the change in momentum, nor was it a gradual decline to due the injury effect. It was a fulcrum about a point which set off a change in his mentality and lost him near enough 2 sets. The fourth of course he played much better (are you suggesting his injury improved in the 4th?, lol). Also you have to admit Nadal in the last 3 sets was a different Nadal than we saw in the first set and that had as much to do with the outcome of the match as Andy himself did.

Good luck to Djoko and Nadal for Sunday, had money on both reaching the final, so am happy enough and the winner will be the deserving winner.

Interesting that you don't think Murray faked the injury........................

seems like someone still bitter after watching his fav lost in QF Whistle

by masterplanl Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:03 pm

Y I Man wrote:
Y I Man wrote:Popped a treble on over lunch time.
Nole 3-1 Rafa 3-1 and Shara 2-1= 56/1

if i could just see you i bet you are glowing right now... idea

by Guest Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:21 pm

It'l be just my luck the Shara match finishes 2-0 laughing

by wow Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:27 pm

Y I Man wrote:It'l be just my luck the Shara match finishes 2-0

tbf, there is no guarantee that she will win only. Kvitova lost in sfs last year so cannot be discounted that easily. If I have to put money then I will put on Kvitova.

by pauline1981 Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:34 pm

Tenez wrote:
Tom_____ wrote:Your just embarrassing yourself really - Nadal hit around a dozen UEs all match - thats going to make it hard for anyone to beat him. Murrays Serve dropping has had more to do with him losing the momentum than anything.
murray is Poopie

Actually it confirms your poor sense of observation Tom...as well as the fact you are blinded by Rafa.

If you can;t see the difference between Murray first set and then the remaining 3, just choose another sport. Even at the handshake Nadal asked Murray what was wrong with him.

I am not a Murray fan, so I have no interest in finding him excuses.

by pauline1981 Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:35 pm

Murray is Poor

by wow Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:02 pm

Djoko is no mug on grass. He has always played well against rafa on grass. although rafa won both the encounters however novak fought well with him. And now when djoko has improved so much ( he has beaten nadal on clay 3 times) then the final should be an interesting affair.

I have always supported Andy but today he did bottle it. You cannot let one error dictate and affect your game in such consequential way.

Good luck to djoker- the new no. 1

by Tenez Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:10 pm

Tom_____ wrote:The fourth of course he played much better (are you suggesting his injury improved in the 4th?, lol).

Really? He did not play much better. He simply made a better effort to hold his serve and had to work very hard for that.

Also you have to admit Nadal in the last 3 sets was a different Nadal than we saw in the first set and that had as much to do with the outcome of the match as Andy himself did.

That is my point. not yours. PLaying Nadal when not 100% is simply impossible, especially for a player like Murray whose main strength is rallying from the back of the court. That gave wings to Nadal while Murray lost faith..especially after missing that easy FH in the second set.

Interesting that you don't think Murray faked the injury........................

Why? That's not Murray's style.

by djlovesyou Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:42 pm

Y I Man wrote:I still need Shara though. Put £5 on the treble.

Why not lay it a little?

by lydian Sat 02 Jul 2011, 1:29 am

Tenez wrote: PLaying Nadal when not 100% is simply impossible, especially for a player like Murray whose main strength is rallying from the back of the court. That gave wings to Nadal while Murray lost faith..

Tenez, as usual you're just making stuff up. Even Murray himself said he wasnt injured:

"My hip was sore right at the beginning of the match," Murray said. "After I saw the physio, took a painkiller, it was fine. I hardly felt my hip after that."

He simply couldnt sustain the high-risk approach he said he took and Nadal raised his level. In the end Nadal was playing a brand of imperious tennis that few could live with. Even the most neutral of observers could see Nadal was by far the superior player.

by djlovesyou Sat 02 Jul 2011, 1:37 am

I agree Lydian, Murray wasn't injured and he wouldn't pretend he was.

He's very unlike his opponent in that sense, given that's he's never lost a match without an injury.

by Bright_hsd Sat 02 Jul 2011, 6:58 am

Tenez wrote:
Tom_____ wrote:The fourth of course he played much better (are you suggesting his injury improved in the 4th?, lol).
Really? He did not play much better. He simply made a better effort to hold his serve and had to work very hard for that.

Also you have to admit Nadal in the last 3 sets was a different Nadal than we saw in the first set and that had as much to do with the outcome of the match as Andy himself did.
That is my point. not yours. PLaying Nadal when not 100% is simply impossible, especially for a player like Murray whose main strength is rallying from the back of the court. That gave wings to Nadal while Murray lost faith..especially after missing that easy FH in the second set.

Interesting that you don't think Murray faked the injury........................

Why? That's not Murray's style.

Style??? LOL, this is one of funniest quotes I have read here in a long time. laughing

by sportslover Sat 02 Jul 2011, 8:19 am

The tennis that Rafa played in the last three sets, some of his shots defied belief.

I don't think any player could combat them and if he can play the same way, which he probably will we are in for an entertaining final, if Novak wins he is well worthy of that No.1 position!

by yummymummy Sat 02 Jul 2011, 8:35 am

I agree sl !

Rafa played some of the best tennis I have seen on grass
for a long time - No-one could have lived with him clap

by Tenez Sat 02 Jul 2011, 8:37 am

lydian wrote:
Tenez wrote: PLaying Nadal when not 100% is simply impossible, especially for a player like Murray whose main strength is rallying from the back of the court. That gave wings to Nadal while Murray lost faith..

Tenez, as usual you're just making stuff up. Even Murray himself said he wasnt injured:

"My hip was sore right at the beginning of the match," Murray said. "After I saw the physio, took a painkiller, it was fine. I hardly felt my hip after that."

LOL! Right. that to me says he was.....can't you read? Not feeling the pain doesn't mean all is well.
Nadal played well but it's absurd to judge his performance against a not very mobile player who relies so much on mobility.

Couldn't you see that Murray could not start off the blocks like he usually does? I am amazed that some of you pretend to know the game yet can't see the obvious. This is the very reason why Murray could not return Rafa's serve as well as he did in that first set....even if he was injured in that first set. He gave 100% at the start and I can only assume his groin muscle(?) tear got worse.

by Guest Sat 02 Jul 2011, 8:43 am

Tenez wrote:
lydian wrote:
Tenez wrote: PLaying Nadal when not 100% is simply impossible, especially for a player like Murray whose main strength is rallying from the back of the court. That gave wings to Nadal while Murray lost faith..

Tenez, as usual you're just making stuff up. Even Murray himself said he wasnt injured:

"My hip was sore right at the beginning of the match," Murray said. "After I saw the physio, took a painkiller, it was fine. I hardly felt my hip after that."

LOL! Right. that to me says he was.....can't you read? Not feeling the pain doesn't mean all is well.
Nadal played well but it's absurd to judge his performance against a not very mobile player who relies so much on mobility.

Couldn't you see that Murray could not start off the blocks like he usually does? I am amazed that some of you pretend to know the game yet can't see the obvious. This is the very reason why Murray could not return Rafa's serve as well as he did in that first set....even if he was injured in that first set. He gave 100% at the start and I can only assume his groin muscle(?) tear got worse.

Assuming doesnt mean it did though Tenez.
Murray said it was sore at the start, yet won the first set.
After that he said he took the painkiller and was fine.
Rafa played some of the best tennis i've ever seen, that is what won him the match.

by Tenez Sat 02 Jul 2011, 9:16 am

In tennis you are as good as your opponent let you look good. Without being able to be on the ball, a tight match turned into an exhibition for one player.

The difference in levels between Murray's first set and after is huge and likewise, Nadal played more freely cause he could see Murray was not 100%.

by Tenez Sat 02 Jul 2011, 9:24 am

Look at last year when Federer was injured. Federer had won Falla 61 62 in Halles before being injured, but in their first round at Wimbledon 2 weeks later, Federer lost his first 2 sets and Falla was praised for his amazing display. Why? cause he was allowed to. When Falla lost a bit of mouvement and got tired, Federer's shot making ability made the difference (coupled with Falla getting nervous).

Those guys are too good, especially Nadal, not to exploit a real weakness.

This is why these dubious MTOs really get on my nerves cause when one is feeling unwell, chances are that as the match gets on, the injury gets worse...not for all obviously.

by lydian Sat 02 Jul 2011, 9:24 am

Tenez...what are you like?

Read Murray's lips...."IT WAS FINE".

What part of that do you not understand? The fact you fail to see what most people did, and that was that Nadal put on an exhbition for 3 sets, makes you appear ignorant in appraising a guy who played at a level few can match.

by lydian Sat 02 Jul 2011, 9:26 am

Tenez wrote:This is why these dubious MTOs really get on my nerves cause when one is feeling unwell, chances are that as the match gets on, the injury gets worse...not for all obviously.

Oh here we go now...MTO's. Tenez, what parallel world do you live in? You seem unable to realise that Murray played at an artificially high level for a set, couldnt maintain it and Nadal went up 3 gears to a level Murray couldnt reach anyway. Murray was not injured, he was beaten by a better player.

by Guest Sat 02 Jul 2011, 9:39 am

Tenez, you will never win this argument. Everyone else here saw the match and has made up their own mind on it. Time to move on from it imo.

We have Liam Broady and the ladies final to look forward to. So lets have a good day on here and enjoy the tennis.

by sportslover Sat 02 Jul 2011, 9:40 am

Tenez

It must be very frustrating for the Rafa fans to continually get negative comments from you on their player even when he plays at a level few if any can match.

Can't you at least show some respect and give him praise for his skills rather than always throw in a "hidden agenda" because of your dislike for him.

by Tenez Sat 02 Jul 2011, 9:43 am

lydian wrote:Tenez...what are you like?

Read Murray's lips...."IT WAS FINE".

What part of that do you not understand? The fact you fail to see what most people did, and that was that Nadal put on an exhbition for 3 sets, makes you appear ignorant in appraising a guy who played at a level few can match.

Like wise "My hip was sore right at the beginning of the match," WHat part of that do you not understand?

Get real, not feeling the pain doesn;t mean you can move as if not injured. And the lips I read when he was adressing his box after almost every point was not "I AM FINE".

But besides, that, it's obvious he was not moving well and yet again, you can't see it cause you are a real fan of one player.

by Tenez Sat 02 Jul 2011, 9:46 am

sportslover wrote:Tenez

It must be very frustrating for the Rafa fans to continually get negative comments from you on their player even when he plays at a level few if any can match.

Can't you at least show some respect and give him praise for his skills rather than always throw in a "hidden agenda" because of your dislike for him.

It's only negative comments for the fanatics. I say Nadal played well. Can't you read that? But it's important to note that he was allowed to play well.

I'll leave it there...cause if not many of you can see it, fine. But that's the case.

by Wooffie Sat 02 Jul 2011, 10:11 am

sportslover wrote:Tenez

It must be very frustrating for the Rafa fans to continually get negative comments from you on their player even when he plays at a level few if any can match.

Can't you at least show some respect and give him praise for his skills rather than always throw in a "hidden agenda" because of your dislike for him.

You're absolutely spot on there, SL ... it is. It has been maniacal at times on here this week, and ends with every single decent poster on here making comments which give credit where it is most due ... bar one. So trying not to add more to it, I won't go into much detail on my views, but I would wager that it is more than the average Rafa fan that is getting sick to the back to teeth of it as regular other posters will be too, and none of it contributes to the health of a tennis forum. And I would seriously question anyone who believes that the rabid, incessant nature of it is nectar from the Gods in the name of "debate".

by CaledonianCraig Sat 02 Jul 2011, 10:15 am

Rafa's big strength is the high level of play he consistently can play at and often no one can live with that. Andy surpassed that level in the first set but dipped in the second and third set and the start of the fourth and you cannot do that against Rafa and expect to win.

by dyrewolfe Sat 02 Jul 2011, 10:41 am

Agreed Craig. I think a major part of Rafa's consistency (and that of other top players) is mental toughness and their ability to maintain their composure when under pressure.

For example, Nadal didn't look flustered in the slightest after losing ther first set and instead got better as the match went on. Contrast that with Murray's obvious agitation when he missed shots he should have made.

Muzza's got the technical ability - he just needs to get his head sorted out.

Anyway, should be an amazing final with both Rafa and Novak at the top of their games. Being strictly neutral I won't mind who wins.

by Tom_____ Sat 02 Jul 2011, 11:13 am

dyrewolfe wrote:Agreed Craig. I think a major part of Rafa's consistency (and that of other top players) is mental toughness and their ability to maintain their composure when under pressure.

For example, Nadal didn't look flustered in the slightest after losing ther first set and instead got better as the match went on. Contrast that with Murray's obvious agitation when he missed shots he should have made.

Muzza's got the technical ability - he just needs to get his head sorted out.

Anyway, should be an amazing final with both Rafa and Novak at the top of their games. Being strictly neutral I won't mind who wins.

Murray really does have the ability. His vast success in the Masters SFs and Finals against all the other top players shows so. However slams are the big prize and it seems its that extra pressure (from inside) that denies him. I'm not saying he would have won yesterday, because Rafa was awesome, but he basically binned off a whole set because he was angry with himself for missing one shot in particular. In the AO final vs Djoko, for my money he had the better of the first set, yet just lost it at the wrong moment. After that he went AWOL for the second set before vaguely coming back on form in the 3rd. So basically in these 'big' slam matches he often is giving his opponent a set for free, so Murray is effectively needing to win 3-0 or 3-1 bar that dodgy set. You can't do that an expect to win - it is all mental. For me though i really believe that if he does manage to win a slam soonish, then it might be the spark for his own 'Djoko' like streak, or at least a dominant period - his game is that good, with all the pressure removed.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 02 Jul 2011, 11:14 am

Agreed Tom. Spot on.

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