Blame Booth?

Morning 606

Well, lets just blame someone eh? My view and opinion is that Booth's gameplan for Haye was seriously seriously wrong. All the antics were obviously designed to make Wlad come forwards - which he did. Problem was did Booth think Wlad would suddenly neglect his jab jab right montonous combination?

We saw his dance and move against Valuev and all agreed if he was more active it'd have been a landslide UD. Groves backed off the back foot throughout the Degale fight and just, just did enough for victory. And now he's had Haye prancing and waiting for a gap that simply was never going to come.

Everyone said Haye had to dictate the pace, he had to push the action - get inside and run a fair few risks. Now, i know it's easier said than done - but come R10 (at the latest) why wasn't Booth slapping Haye telling him to basically go kamikaze?

Haye only threw 290 punches in the fight and actually landed more power punches than Wlad (we're talking 36 to 29 so not alot!). Someone got the tactics seriously wrong as a bloody blind man could've just told him this is a 4 round fight and you have to go out there swinging.

Ta, Coxy

p.s. Afolabi knocking Dunstan out was something to behold.... i mean jee whiz!

p.s.s YES WE CAN! YES WE CAN!

I thought groves lost to degale. It was a waffer thin decision, so I see why it went the other way.

Haye was clearly capible of taking the best Wlad could throw. Way better than some guys with absolutely superb chins in this division. Haye did not gamble early enough. Leaving his main assault till the 12th. What on earth was Booth thinking?

Wlad was there for the taking if Haye actually engaged.

I blame George Foreman that pre fight chat he gave Wlad was awe inspiring and got Wlad pumped up something rotten. I for one will not be buying the next grill he releases!

In all seriousness I agree with you that from Round10 onwards the Haye camp must have known that only a KO would do and he should have gone out all guns blazing but as Haye has always said he wants to leave the sport with his head intact so that was probably his number 1 consideration.

Agreed Jamsie to an extent

Don't think Wlad was there for the taking as that's a bit of an assumption. But Haye could've done a helluva lot more to even find out.

Everyone i've spoken to said the tactics were wrong, yes he had issues getting inside the jab - but what did they think would happen?! I mean was Booth's masterplan to get Haye to lunge in with wild rights?!?!

I'm still struggling to fathom how Haye went into "wait wait" mode from the word go - Isn't like he felt Wlads power (and when he did get hit he took the punches surprisingly well) and then just went into his shell.

Haye to sack Booth as trainer, get with Roach then no-one can stop him!

Hopefuly now, Booth will not be viewed, as he has been by some, as some sort of coaching Yoda.

In fact, as much as Haye has come accross poorly in the lead up to the fight, I think Adam Booth comes accross terribly, and was almost pleased Haye lost in the manner he did, just so people stopped lauding Booth

JD

To be fair he got Groves to fight a good fight.

BUT

This fight was never going to be won off the back foot, i think they were totally reliant on Haye ruffling Wlad to the extent he'd simply come in swinging - Did they forget they were up against one of the greatest trainers of all time? I mean Steward saw it all coming and had his charge totally focussed on jab jab and jab some more.

I mean i lost count the number of times i went red with rage as when Haye threw Wlad was coming back with zero, absolutely zero barring just stepping back.

I mean why Booth wasn't telling him to rush and ******* wing, especially in the championship rounds when it was bloody obvious he was behind, is sodding beyond me.

He did get groves to fight a good fight, but he only just got a decision, like so marginal it is untrue - I had DeGale by 2 in that one, but my mate had Groves by 2, so it is all about opinions!

Like you say, he was never going to win, in Germany, against a guy who hasnt lost of 8 years, by being on the back foot!

Booth was just trying to be too clever, and sure, if they had watched Klitshko prior to this, he has fought nearly every fight the same way, why would he change now?

Big mistake from Booth, and should probably lose his job over it - I am also of the opinion that Booth is to blame for the broken toe, in so much as he stood on it wearing those big shoes again!

Morning Coxy,

I think Haye was very wary of running out of steam or taking a big shot. He seemed to be conserving his energy and chin way to much. He then got caught in a trance by Wlads left jab and stopped trying.

As Booth said in the post fight ring interview he knew Haye was in trouble when 3 rounds in a row Haye was not able to follow any of his instructions. Booth acknowledged it was because Haye couldn't.

I share your frustration that Haye didn't throw caution to the wind but ultimately I reckon it will take a physically strong high volume puncher to beat Wlad. I don't think Wlads height would be such a big problem if a fighter was swarming all over him.


I just read Haye being referred to the as the male version of Katie Price. Both girly media ho's.

Morning Strongie

If i was in his corner i'd have personally told him to just punch himself out, again i know it's easier said than done - heck when i used to only spar (years ago) i'd get into the ring with certain guys that i knew i'd have huge issues figuring out. My "wing and see how that works" approach was probably the reason why i got sparked a few times though

Disagree with the media ho thing. Haye has and had the tools, he just fought the wrong fight. This may sound utterly silly, but i reckon he'd stand more chance against the less athletic and more willing to engage older brother in Vitali. He is there to hit and isn't as cautious as Wlad etc, not saying Haye would win but i think he'd have more holes to get through.

Not sure where Haye goes to be honest, on a side note he dismissed retirement talk and i reckon if Vitali offers a half decent deal then Haye would maybe take it........ I think it's either rematch or his older brother, not alot else holds value for him and i think he knows it.

Coxy, I was expecting Wlad to end up giving Haye a beating but it never happened. I acually got p'd off with Wlad's lack of aggression and found myself wanting Haye to crack him in the head a couple of times to get things going.

I also believe that Wlad is there for the taking if a fighter really throws caution to the wind. Wlad might have come back with a few punches after Haye landed a good one but he looked very uncomfortable about being hit and became even more cautious when he got a dig. Haye's problem seems to be that he can't go in all out fighting because his lack of stamina won't let him.

Another problem is Wlad is just too physically strong and Haye collapsed any time Wlad leaned on him. This would be a lot worse against the bigger Vitali. Haye would be qucker than Vitali but Big K's granite chin would equalise that.

I would prefer to see Haye making a proper go of it against wlad. He must be kicking himself about the manner of the defeat. He must be saying to himself that he blew it by not having a proper go.

When Booth's tactics weren't working there was no Plan B.

I think Haye will regret not giving it a better go against Wlad. Also, what was the plan b for the match as you could see early on that the main strategy by Haye was not working.

Tactically is was just a massive error, did they honestly think Wlad would change what he has been succesful with for so long, were they really that daft??

We all knew what to expect from Wlad, it was just what Haye was going to do that people were unsure about, and I certainly wasnt expecting that!!

I think what this boils down to is: for all his talk of being a 'born fighter', I don't think Haye really is. He is an on top fighter mainly. The reason he went into his shell immediately was because Klitschko forced him back from the off and continually cut the ring off. Haye spent so much time dodging and weaving he had no time to set up his own attacks.

I think the size of the task dawned on him straight away and he went into survival mode. He said himself he didn't want to rush in for fear of taking something massive. Not born fighter talk really is it.

I wouldnt blame Booth overly. Whatever new and secret plan they supposedly had obviously didnt work but Haye should not have needed Booth telling him he needed a KO to win in the last few. That should have been common sense.

I think Hayes plan was to box from the outside and try and con the ref when things got up close by falling to the ground claiming he was manhandled. Hopefully find the odd opportunity to land a big one on Wlad that could end the fight.

He was fighting away from home against a guy that is notoriously difficult to outpoint anyway so I would be surprised if Hayes/Booth plan was to try win on points. I just think he never got going and Klitschko handling of range was far superior. Bit disappointed he didnt give it more of a go late on but I guess its easier said than done when you are up against a guy like Klitschko.