The Mental Edge

After yesterday's Wimbledon Final, and Djokovic's shock victory, what are we to make of what Djokovic & Nadal have said about the match in interviews?

Both of them have talked about the mental aspect, especially Nadal, saying that in that first set, serving at 5-4, his previous losses preyed on his mind. Djokovic commented on the 3rd set and said he lost focus and relaxed too much (instead of getting tight) and has said he let Nadal into the match (rather than Nadal fighting his way back in).

Do we think the mental edge was partly responsible for Nadal's rather convincing defeat?

It was noticeable that Nadal didn't play well on the big points; it was also noticeable that when the break points came, Djokovic took him straight away (5/6), Djokovic wasn't afraid of taking them, or over awed about who he was playing. Is that because of those 4 wins prior to the match?

Once this sort of mental edge develops between two players, is there a way to turn it around? Has it been done before?

Interviews reported/included below.

http://blogs.tennis.com/tennisworld/2011/07/tk-.html

http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/articles/2011-07-03/201107031309702187210.html

In an interview before the final they asked rafa as how he would play against himself and he ansered that he will try to make less mistakes and I don't know what to say. But it happened on 3rd of July, rafa got rafaed by Djoker. Beating in his own game.

I watched the interview and rafa is sounding like a defeatist, only uncle Toni can do something now but for now Marain Vajda has outsmarted Uncle Toni.
3 cheers for Djoker's team.

I think Lucius makes a good point, it isn't easy to figure out a new gameplan or to get the demons out of your head once someone establishes dominance in a rivalry. Even when Nadal was beating Djokovic I always felt like Novak should do better in their rivalry. In the past his serve and his fitness cost him most of his losses to Nadal. I think Novak is in Rafa's head, I think it will be very hard to get him out of there. And even if this mental edge didn't exist, new Novak with better fitness and a better serve is a nightmare matchup for Nadal's style of play. Novak likes the high heavy ball on both sides, Nadal hits the ball high and heavy that is his style. Novak is a great returner and Nadal at best a decent server, advantage Novak. Novak goes up the lines as well as anyone and Nadal with the amount of court he opens up on his forehand side is vulnerable to a player who goes up the lines. Now that Novak's fitness and serve are solid, the advantages Rafa owned to 16-12 in their heads up have all but disappeared.

I've heard the interview and I agree wow, sounded like a man who'd been beaten into submission, he acknowledged he had no answers to Djokovic right now. The funny part of the interview is he said he would continue and march into a 6th and 7th defeat until he figured out Djokovic. Nice to see such positive thinking, I thought tennis players only talked positive! Brave talk but it shows how Djokovic has really got under Nadal's skin.

It's interesting socal, the head to head suggests Nadal is on top but with 5 losses in a row to him I think the rivalry head to head will change. I been looking over the scoreline Djokovic has been acquiring through the masters tournaments and grand slams and it's remarkable. Djokovic was smashing all opponents before the quarter finals in all tournaments in straight sets, occasionally losing one set in a grand slam before then but that's it, some opponents only got a game on the score board in the entire match.

I think the progression with the Nadal matches are interesting, Nadal won the first set at Indian Wells and then Djokovic came back and defeated him comfortably in the final set. It seems that must have shocked Nadal because two weeks later Nadal fought harder taking the first set like before and Djokovic the second, just single breaks in each set and in the final set it went to a tie breaker and Nadal lost it. Maybe Nadal didn't expect to lose that match and it really dented his confidence because when it came to the clay court tournaments, players like Ferrer and Murray were pushing Djokovic all the way to 3 sets (even Bellucci) but when he got to Nadal in the finals, he defeated him both times, but now these were comfortable victories, with Rome the most comfortable of all, 6-4, 6-4. All I can say is that this mental edge has been developing over time and it will take time to erase, if it does. I think it's telling that he talks of a 6th and 7th defeat, it's nice to see SA accepts this more than likely just as Nadal has.

Do we think the mental edge was partly responsible for Nadal's rather convincing defeat?

It was noticeable that Nadal didn't play well on the big points; it was also noticeable that when the break points came, Djokovic took him straight away (5/6), Djokovic wasn't afraid of taking them, or over awed about who he was playing. Is that because of those 4 wins prior to the match?

Once this sort of mental edge develops between two players, is there a way to turn it around? Has it been done before?


Ask Roddick about that on his finals with Fed...

Nadal go the way of Roddick? Whisper that quietly, that might send Nadal fans into shock.....

I hope he won't...

I do think we've been brainwashed by the media to elevate the mental side. in the end you feel good and confident because you believe you are in a comfortable position, and you are in that position because you have a tangible advantage.

People don't just get a mental edge for nothing, it's earned.

Nadal is shakey now against Djokovic because he knows his Plan "A" doesn't work any more, because Djokovic is faster and fitter than he is (given the energy expenditure of their games).
As Nadal doesn't really have a Plan "B" (he can't revert to taking all the pace off the ball and playing a cagey game, he'd be slaughtered) it's no surprise if a bit of panic set in.

I expect that Nadal will go off and try to work out how to hit the ball harder and run longer and harder.

bogbrush wrote:I do think we've been brainwashed by the media to elevate the mental side. in the end you feel good and confident because you believe you are in a comfortable position, and you are in that position because you have a tangible advantage.

People don't just get a mental edge for nothing, it's earned.

Words of wisdom. Especially at a time in tennis where physique is more important than skills.

I expect that Nadal will go off and try to work out how to hit the ball harder and run longer and harder.

It's fair to say that's his main option.

Well, Lucius as usual makes great points. I can't see Nadal in the middle of his career being able change enough. I think in away he has to hope that Novak loses form for whatever reason (health, confidence). At this current level I can't see Nadal being able to effectively execute the dramatic level of changes required to change this match up. Novak has gotten better, up until this year he wasn't a finished product. Where Nadal has steadily gotten better since he was a teenager, it took Novak longer to get there. Now that he has I think his arsenal of shots and talents just top Nadal's.

That's why I find it hard to like Nadal alot of the time, he thinks that when he loses in the fashion that he did in the final that it was a 1 off and he will grind his opponent down next time, it's well hidden arrogance.

There is a irony in the way the press reported Nadal's defeat (out-Rafed), which does lend itself to suggesting Nadal grinds his opponents down physically to get his wins.

All I'd say is that its been highlighted that since early 2009, Djokovic has been winning the vast majority of matches between the two (I can only imagine it wasn't really considered significant because they weren't grand slam matches). If that's the case that Djokovic has only improved his fitness, then why has it not affected the head to head so much with Federer? Apparently it's stayed in Federer's favour during the same time period? I think there is a case of acquiring a mental edge (between Djokovic/Nadal), not necessarily huge, but at the top level, small differences do make a big difference. Maybe there's a case to be made that unlike Federer's game which is less reliant on physicality, Nadal has put himself in the position where he can be out done by Djokovic. We'll find out if Nadal finds any answers, but if his game is truly rooted in physicality/fitness alone, he's not going to be beating Djokovic soon.

You have it lucius.

You see Federers decline? It's fairly slow and gentle isn't it? That's because Federers game is based on great shots making and talent which are not in decline. He is supported by speed and footwork, which have slipped a bit.

Result: #3 at 30 and able to beat the top guys.

Nadal is based on physicality. Once that declines he'll fall off a cliff. It is quite possible to see 33 year old Federer with a higher ranking than 28 year old Nadal just for this reason (assuming both still playing).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyhXoaWqAYM&feature=related

For all of you who missed it.