If the Lions was this Summer

First topic message reminder :

A devilishly over done topic but its the offseason and this is a topic that usually drags in a lot of fans from different countries and has people championing certain players.

If the Lions were touring this year who would get selected in your squad and who would make the starting team. I know there are a few injuries but to be honest I didn't really bother taking them into account.

Prop: Gethin Jenkins, Cian Healy, Andrew Sheridan, Dan Cole, Adam Jones, Mike Ross
Hooker: Dylan Hartley, Rory Best, Matthew Rees
Lock: Nathan Hines, Alun Wyn-Jones, Paul O'Connell, Tom Palmer, Richie Grey
Flanker: Sean O'Brian, Tom Wood, Stephen Ferris, Sam Warburton, John Barclay
Number 8: Jamie Heaslip, Nick Easter
Scrumhalf: Danny Care, Ben Youngs, Chris Cusiter
Flyhalf: Jonny Wilkinson, James Hook, Jonathon Sexton
Centre: Bradley Barritt, Jonathon Davies, Fergus McFadden, Brian O'Driscoll, Max Evans, Manu Tuilagi
Winger: Andrew Trimble, Leigh Halfpenny, Chris Ashton, Tommy Bowe
Fullback: Ben Foden, Keith Earls

01 Andrew Sheridan
02 Dylan Hartley
03 Adam Jones
04 Nathan Hines
05 Paul O'Connell
06 Sean O'Brien
07 Sam Warburton
08 Jamie Heaslip
09 Danny Care
10 Jonathon Sexton
11 Max Evans
12 Jonathon Davies
13 Brian O'Driscoll
14 Tommy Bowe
15 Ben Foden

Murray is a fair shout but I haven't considered him because I haven't seen what he can do at international level but yes you're right he could be the best of the lot.

Indeed, Rodders, we're all waiting to see what he can do in a green jersey. As I said, would be a bolter to say the least whether it is Ireland's RWC squad or a Lions Tour. Wht I like best about him is the he can pass as well as anyone who isn't Stringer in the Munster camp and doesn't @rse about at the ruck nearly as much as TOL or indeed, Redden at times too.

debaters1 wrote: Wht I like best about him is the he can pass as well as anyone who isn't Stringer in the Munster camp and doesn't @rse about at the ruck nearly as much as TOL or indeed, Redden at times too.

I agree debators. The sooner this kid is in a green jersey so we see what he's made of the better. I think Reddans going well and doesn't get the credit he deserves but Murray has the potential to be far better for sure.

Well, I am a critic of Reddens but to give him his due, as the 6N went along he got ebtter and more consistant and his decision making seemd to be better too. However, he was comprehensivly outplayed by Murray in the ML (Pro12) Final. So we shall see!!! But yes, since Xmas, Redden has been on the good side of solid. Which seeing as he is likely to be the 9 in NZ i a VERY good thing for Ireland.

Go Murray!

I would have Marler in there at prop, he plays both sides of the scrum, is young and very physical and surprisingly powerful at the set piece. He'd do very well in the dirt trackers side.

Otherwise i'd love to see Grey and Lawes playing in the second row and Croft, O'Brien and Heaslip in the backrow. Croft gets through far more breakdown work then is given credit for and compared to when he first broke in to the international scene makes far less runs in favour of doing the unseen stuff.

I think I'd go for:

1 Healey
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Palmer
5 Lawes
6 O'brien
7 Warburton
8 Heaslip
9 Youngs
10 Sexton
11 Ashton
12 Williams
13 BOD
14 Bowe
15 Foden

Not sure why you haven't taken injuries into account Stag, doesn't look as if you've taken form into account either. The starting back-row is a beast though. I'd have Haskell and Tom Wood on the bench to cover; Wood can cover 2nd row aswell right?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

red_stag wrote:I would have have Foden walking into the Lions 15 berth personally.

On what grounds though? What has he done to make you think that?

I'm not going to argue that Patterson isn't a good player, but Foden was a bit more than "solid if unspectacular".

In the 6N he made more metres than any other player (503m, the next closest was 370m), he was in the top 4 for defenders beaten and there were only 3 offloading totals better than his. In the HC he again made more metres than any other player, second highest for defenders beaten, top for clean breaks.

Comparing his stats against Patterson for the 6N, he loses out in the kicking stakes, but not elsewhere. Having a FB that can kick goals is definitely a plus, but the FHs most people have been listing are far from incapable kickers, I'd rather have a FB that makes more inroads with ball in hand.


Patterson - Foden
3 Matches 5
0 Tries 1
31 Points 5
16 Carries 56
91 Metres carried 503
1 Clean breaks 3
1 Offloads 7
0 Defenders beaten 9
12 Tackles 14
3 Missed tackles 2

nottins_jones wrote:Not sure why you haven't taken injuries into account Stag, doesn't look as if you've taken form into account either. The starting back-row is a beast though. I'd have Haskell and Tom Wood on the bench to cover; Wood can cover 2nd row aswell right?

I didn't take much into account. I just wanted the article itself to generate debate. My own team was just a tool to generate debate. I think in some positions was was considered but certainly not universally.

15 Foden
14 Fitzgerald
13 Bowe
12 Ansbro
11 Lamont
10 Sexton
9 Peel

1 Jacobsen
2 Thompson
3 Jones
4 Hines
5 O'Connell
6 Wood
8 Heaslip
7 Warburton

16 James
17 Rees
18 Palmer
19 Croft
20 Murray
21 Hook
22 BOD

Foden has a distinct advantage in that

A) He played More games
B) Has much better backs in front of him
C) Had a much better set peice in front of him

What a lot of posters here probably do not know is that paterson is a 1st reciver for Edinburgh and Scotland. He and Jackson both take turns in the fly half slot. Although primarily I think this was to give Jackson a little confidence and help him focus on his game better.

I do rate Foden very highly, I just think Paterson is a better all round player.

James, Hartley, Cole, O'Connel, Palmer, O'Brien, Warburton, Heaslip, Youngs, Sexton, Lamont, J.Davies, O'Driscoll, Ashton, Foden. Un-injured and on form.

RR agreed.

Johnpartle - I think CP would take Foden in the tackling stakes as well as the kicking. Using missed tackles as a comparison can't count as it depends on location of tackle and consequence.

If you watched CP's two try saving tackles in the last 6N as the last man in defence, you'll see what I mean.

01. Jenkins
02. Hartley
03. A Jones
04. Lawes
05. O'Connell
06. Ferris
07. Barclay
08. Heaslip
09. Youngs
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Roberts
13. O'Driscoll
14. Ashton
15. Foden

Jamie Roberts? Is the only reason the form he showed 2 years ago or do you think him best option?

I wouldn't have him travelling personally.

Look at the other inside centres Stag. Ireland have no one of any quality. Scotland have no-one of any quality. England have no-one of any quality. What choice is there?

Notch wrote:Look at the other inside centres Stag. Ireland have no one of any quality. Scotland have no-one of any quality. England have no-one of any quality. What choice is there?

True that.

Scotland's best Inside centre for some time is someone who used to be a winger

True I suppose I just don't think he's really good enough for Wales at minute never mind the Lions.

But who is? Inside centre seems to be a massive problem for the home nations at the moment.

1st Choice centres over the 6N included names like Hape, S Lamont, NDL, Darcy, Roberts....none of whom looked particularly good.

In truth Lamont was probably the best out of those mentioned, Scoring a good try against france and making some brilliant tackles in defence but to be honest you would have to be a madman or desperate to start him at inside centre for the Lions.

Thats fair enough

Graeme Morrison for the Lions!!

Cold sweats... just hope someone can impose themselves at 12 before 2013. McFadden? Tuilagi? Think both will be good but not great. It's a really problematic position.

McFadden is a really good shout, but I always kind of saw him as BOD's long term replacement at 13.

I also think this season Glasgow Warriors will have to move Jackson to inside Centre for Weir to play at 10. Jackson has all the attributes to be a very good inside centre, soft hands, an eye for the gap and very good in defence.

Another Scot with potential at 12 is Alex Grove, with Worcestor being promoted again he will have a chance to show his talents in the Aviva.

On another note Notch.....Morrison for the Lions? EEEEEEK I don't even like him playing for Scotland!

Trimble, Tuilagi, Best, Hines? hmm

Banahan for 12!!

I can actually see Banahan winning a centre spot on the next Lions tour, but he probably needs a bit more time playing 12 0r 13 at international level before I can take the risk of picking him in my imaginary, time-wasting-at-work 2011 Lions team! Those places have to be earned

Eustace H Plimsoll wrote:I can actually see Banahan winning a centre spot on the next Lions tour, but he probably needs a bit more time playing 12 0r 13 at international level before I can take the risk of picking him in my imaginary, time-wasting-at-work 2011 Lions team! Those places have to be earned

Haha funny that I have one of those teams too!!

I like your style Eustace

Tattie, in the same match you referred to CP missed a tackle that he should have made that resulted in a try. Not saying he should be overlooked as a result, just thta he isn't BOD either.

Notch wrote:Graeme Morrison for the Lions!!

Cold sweats... just hope someone can impose themselves at 12 before 2013. McFadden? Tuilagi? Think both will be good but not great. It's a really problematic position.

Jonothan Davies of the Scarlets will impose himself at 12 before 2013.

In case anyone has forgotten Chris Patterson got brushed aside by Ronan "I'm a kitten" O'Gara in the irish Scottish game in the 6n inside his own goal area.

Pete, even worse, wasn't that Ross Ford, or am I thinking of another Scottish revolving-door tackle-stylee?

1. Allan Jacobsen
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Adam Jones
4. Bradley Davies
5. POC
6. Tom Croft
7. Sam Warburton
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Eoin Reddan
10. Jonny Sexton
11. Mark Cueto
12. James Hook
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Chris Ashton
15. Ben Foden

16. Matthew Rees
17. Gethin Jenkins
18. Courtney Lawes
19. Kelly Brown
20. Ben Youngs
21. Stephen Jones
22. Max Evans

Ford missed the first one yeah then O'Gara was jogging towards the posts CP came at him and ROG stepped to his left (but there was contact). CP went flying around and ROG walked under the posts.

Ah yes, with you

Ah, you can't just let ROG have that one can ye?!?

Oh the hand off on Ford was immense O'Gara looked like he was doing it to O'kelly in 06 all over again.

The one on CP was embarressing CP tackling.

So 1/2 and 1/2???

I'm shocked be some of the players that are being mentioned. have people been actually watching rugby this year

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Foden has a distinct advantage in that

A) He played More games
B) Has much better backs in front of him
C) Had a much better set peice in front of him

What a lot of posters here probably do not know is that paterson is a 1st reciver for Edinburgh and Scotland. He and Jackson both take turns in the fly half slot. Although primarily I think this was to give Jackson a little confidence and help him focus on his game better.

I do rate Foden very highly, I just think Paterson is a better all round player.

The more games is easily taken into account by adjusting the stats to per game, which still puts Foden ahead in most categories, certainly those relevant to ball in hand, which is the facet of the position the current game favours more. He may well have a better team around him, but attacking from the FB position, particularly when fielding the ball, is largely down to that player's individual ability and vision to identify lines and take defenders on.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:RR agreed.

Johnpartle - I think CP would take Foden in the tackling stakes as well as the kicking. Using missed tackles as a comparison can't count as it depends on location of tackle and consequence.

If you watched CP's two try saving tackles in the last 6N as the last man in defence, you'll see what I mean.

Not sure how you can come to that conclusion. Comparing total tackles made between players in different teams is very difficult, because the team's performance will dictate how many tackles they will have to face. Missed tackles however does give you a good indictaion as to how effective they are in taking their man down. As it is, I don't think you could claim either player had superiority.

Crikey - Warburton at 7 hasn't even been questioned.

Would people really rather have him over Wallace or Barclay? I don't think that he's nailed on, although I'm a big fan of his and he had a good season.

And before anyone starts, I'm well aware that Sambo made a bit of a mess of both W & B in last years Six Nations - but both of those guys had bad matches.

That's the problem with Lions - are we assuming that all players will be fit and play to their best form? I'm assuming that's why people are going for Care and Reddan instead of Youngs.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:In case anyone has forgotten Chris Patterson got brushed aside by Ronan "I'm a kitten" O'Gara in the irish Scottish game in the 6n inside his own goal area.

Yeah, but in general, he had a much underrated tournament. If there was a Lions test tomorrow I'd have no problem with him in the 22.

My inclusion of Roberts is based on his partnership with BOD in '09. IT was very good and there are no stand out 12's. I'm a big fan of Barclay. Most of Scotland's big victories have been almost entirely down to their backrow. In the hypothetical world where everyone is fully fit, I think Ferris is easily the best 6 in the home nations.

It's interesting that most people are going for Sexton at ten. Many outside Leinster were sceptical of him, even after his brilliant performance against England in the 6 Nations. I t seems his man of the match performance in the HEC final (or Toby Floods poor end of season form) has won some people over.