Lost Respect for Haye

by tunes666 Tue 05 Jul 2011, 1:00 am

I personally wanted Haye to get a hiding from WK, as I personally find the Haye camp (Booth included) to be annoying.

But I still respected them both.

But looking back over the last couple years of how he has gone about this WK fight I find it very hard to have respect for the guy.

First of all he has constantly made out that WK is some villan, cheat, power hungry, over rated boxer... so so..

He then steam rolls into them with the T Shirts and stuff which was a tad distasteful..

He then pulled out of two fights with either fighter... and went on to make out that WK was ducking him only because they obviously wanted VK (who is not getting any younger) to have a shot at him first while Haye would only fight WK..

When the fight was arranged he went on to make out WK was unreasonable for entering the ring second and had never fought outside of Germany (Which he has)... Why should WK come in second?, he was champ for 7 years and held two belts, Haye held one for 2 years, why should Haye come in second?.. it should have gone without saying.

Then with the whole build up claiming they are trying to rig the reff and going to try every trick in the book to give Haye a Disadvantage...

Haye keeps us all waiting 10 mins, presumably to disrupt WKs warm up routine, and then goes on to complain and make out that they tried to have him linched on his ring entrance (which was probably a reaction to his stupid 10 min delay)

Then he tries to keep throwing him self on the floor pretending that WK was pushing him down (which only did a couple times, which kind of happens alot on heavyweight boxing) ... But Haye was trying to blag it and cheat by falling on the floor all the time.

When the reff gives him a knock down (which was basically a way of giving him a point deduction) he claims it was some outrageous decision and that the reff was completely against him even though he did take a point from WK. I wonder what Haye would have said if the reff had had a word with him about his Rabbit punching?

Then to top it all straight away he claims his loss was due to his broken toe, he had not limped in the fight or after until he mentioned it and clearly it was not the reason he lost the fight.

Two days later he realises how pathetic the toe excuse was but still bangs on about "all the tricks" the Ks play?... exposing pure hypocrisy.

And he is now asking for a rematch. He will not get a rematch and he does not deserve a rematch until he takes on a couple more decent fighters and earns it... He maybe has a shout at fighting VK, but VK will knock him out and he probably knows it.

David Haye needed to cut out all the excuses and be humble and give WK ALL the praise he deserves and just admit he came up short, if he believes he can do better then get the gloves back on and do what all the other boxers do to get the big fights!.

I think Booth and Haye are bullshitters and I dont believe all their claims about the K camp, I think they play games and do what they got to do to make loads of money..

If Haye really thinks he is good enough to unify the heavyweights and wants respect back I think he should take on a couple more heavyweight fights like say, Odlanier Solis or another fighter who is not past it and then have another go at one the the Ks.. talk is cheap and so are his excuses.

by monty junior Tue 05 Jul 2011, 1:36 am

I really felt Haye went down ridiculously easily, with the point deduction i don't even think Wlad touched him, the slightest tap on his back and Haye seemed to fall easier than Ronaldo.

by BALTIMORA Tue 05 Jul 2011, 1:40 am

Tunes, you don't half go on. Are you James Degale, because that would explain your childish persistence and general bitterness and resentment towards the Hayemaker guys. It's become real boring.

by tunes666 Tue 05 Jul 2011, 2:07 am

BALTIMORA wrote:Tunes, you don't half go on. Are you James Degale, because that would explain your childish persistence and general bitterness and resentment towards the Hayemaker guys. It's become real boring.

That comment was almost as silly as Hayes toe excuse and ramblings about the Reff. But my comment had nothing to do with James Degale so unsure of where that came from.. Im also not at all bitter, I can just smell cowpat when I see it.

Its called an opinion, if mine makes you bored then go away and dont bother reading.

The truth seems to irritate the ignorant.

by tunes666 Tue 05 Jul 2011, 2:12 am

monty junior wrote:I really felt Haye went down ridiculously easily, with the point deduction i don't even think Wlad touched him, the slightest tap on his back and Haye seemed to fall easier than Ronaldo.

From even before the fight his and Booths aim was to build pressure on the reff into siding with Haye... and it continued during the fight when WK only had to rest his arm on him and Haye went down... Haye also went down when WK started to come forward a few times as to get out of the way, there was even one time Haye complained to the reff when WK jabbed him, Or is that just me being bitter? Rolling Eyes

by BALTIMORA Tue 05 Jul 2011, 2:37 am

tunes666 wrote:
BALTIMORA wrote:Tunes, you don't half go on. Are you James Degale, because that would explain your childish persistence and general bitterness and resentment towards the Hayemaker guys. It's become real boring.

That comment was almost as silly as Hayes toe excuse and ramblings about the Reff. But my comment had nothing to do with James Degale so unsure of where that came from.. Im also not at all bitter, I can just smell cowpat when I see it.

Its called an opinion, if mine makes you bored then go away and dont bother reading.

The truth seems to irritate the ignorant.

Perhaps it's because I can remember how you peed and moaned about the Degale-Groves result...

Only the ignorant would fail to see the link.

by captain carrantuohil Tue 05 Jul 2011, 8:25 am

How could one emerge from the whole business with one's respect for Haye in anything but shreds? The relentless trash-talking, the blatant disrespect, carried out with an absence of anything resembling charm or wit. The non-performance, verging on the gun-shy, which allowed him the balm of hearing the final bell, but gave him no chance whatever of winning the fight. The feeble collection of post-fight excuses, ranging from the broken toe to an attempt to implicate the Klitschko camp in a tainted water bottle scandal. Those excuses were only rowed backed on when public contempt threatened to overwhelm Haye.

Humility is Haye's only course of action now. Either retire or start fighting some live contenders, not the freakish, the old, the cowardly or the useless. Earn your right to boast, and do it properly. Those of us who can't bear your preening style will then at least have to admit that you have earned the privilege of doing things your way. Meanwhile, enough of the calls for re-matches or instant title shots. As someone so memorably once said in another context, a period of silence from you would now be welcome.

by **Fists of Fury** Tue 05 Jul 2011, 8:48 am

Tunes may indeed be James Degale, I remember his outrage at the Degale result (sure he had Degale up by 5 rounds or something daft), and now has shown his hate toward all things Hayemaker.

Welcome aboard, James.

by Rowley Tue 05 Jul 2011, 8:52 am

Got to agree Captain. Think trash talk is acceptable or at least tolerated, although it leaves me cold when done with such a conspicuous lack of class or wit, when there is the understanding it is done with the aim of selling the fight and nothing more. To continue to show such a lack of class in the aftermath of a one sided beating and blame anything other than either his onw ineptitude or Wlad's ability shows a complete lack of class and for me is a massive misjudgement of the mood of fans for me because on the back of paying £15 to watch such a non performance to insult their intelligence by looking for any excuse that will fit just adds insult to injury.

by tunes666 Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:04 am

Indeed I was critical of the Degale fight because the Haye camp made out they played some master stroke and out boxed Degale when more than half the boxing world thought it was a draw or a Degale win..

While Degale acted a twit I dont particularly think Booth was much better..

My argument was people were too hard on Degale as while he was a prat he is in the early stage of his career and I believe will go on to big things.

But this has nothing to do with some silly revenge vendetta. I think I have simply pointed out the truth.

The Haye Camp have tried every trick in the book to disrupt WK while making out that its WK who is the bad guy.

WK gave Haye a lesson in the ring and outside the ring and IMO Haye should either announce he wants to get more heavyweight fights under his belt and try and re challenge, or just say nothing and retire holding his hands up that he was beat by the better boxer.

If you want to talk about the Degale fight... Degale understandably wanted a rematch, and had grounds for one as the fight was so close, and he had an argument that he won it.. Haye was outboxed for practically every round.

But Im talking about Haye, not Degale.

by manos de piedra Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:31 am

I think Haye was going to come in for some almightly criticism after that performance regardless of what he said or did after. But clearly his reaction has made it worse. The most effective medicine would be just to have accepted defeat gracefully, congralutated Wlad and then if he really wanted another shot to come out and say he intended to fight his way back into conention. That would have impresed me the most anyway.

Unfortunately he has a bit of history with excuses when faced with criticism. He was cut in sparring before Ruiz, he had money on himself to win in the 3rd against Harrison, he hurt his hand against Valuev and now he had a sore toe and the ref was against him for Wlad.

It bothers me that he still thinks he should just get another shot and that he is the only credible opponent out there for the Klitschkos still. It seems hes just going to try and talk his way back to a title shot as I saw on Sky Sports he seemed to rule out fighting a couple of contenders. Ironically, I think this would actually be his best course of action as he needs the proper heavyweight preparation and some good divisonal wins would go some way to restoring his reputation which is pretty low right now. If he could go to America and try and take on guys like Solis/Chambers/Arreola he would restore credibility and earn his way back into contention. He is still going to be rated pretty high in the divisional lists so he could only be a couple of fights away from another shot - look at Hatton post Mayweather.

I also think theres a chance the public opinion against him ould force him back into the ring to fight these guys if the Klitschkos dont accomodate him. He wanted a media career post boxing but that will have been damaged by his trash talk and heavy defeat. His earning power for another Klitschko fight at the moment will be rock bottom now and he has literally nothing anymore to offer him any leverage in negotiations. If he could win his way back into contention then interest in him would rise again, his earning power would go up and most importantly he would have earned his way to second shot.

by Dass Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:32 am

Can't believe I'm doing this but have to disagree with you Captain, I enjoy your posts tremendously on both boxing and horse racing (when you commented on SupremeArkles quiz threads). Yet on this issue I didn't have much of a problem with Hayes antics post fight as for once it got peoples interest back in Heavyweights. For all Wlad's intellect and proper respect he can't generate interest in the division outside Germany, I don't think he gets the credit he deserves or ever will but thats slightly due to his approach in the ring and the god awful state of 99% of the opposition.

Haye boxed the same fight as I expected on the night, while I would have liked a little bit more risk taking I am astounded many thought he would fight any different than any of his past matches. Hayes approach to come forward fighters is to back of and land punches in small doses in looking for the KO, his approach when not pressured is nearly the same except hes not backing up. Haye wasn't the only one not taking chances in the ring though, Wlad was just as guilty of winning rounds based purely on Hay's small work rate and missing with the jab but at least he threw it scenario.

The toe thing was stupid of him it was always gonna backfire even if it was true, yet I can understand looking for a crutch after losing when you obviously expected to win. While I can understand some may not like Haye's antics and I can see why for me the sport needs personalities even if some are crass it creates talking points. Yet it requires all types of personalities including the of Wlad its the contrasts that make the fights compelling even outside the ring.

I'd normally agree with you in Haye should build his career and get back in line to earn his next shot if this was any other era. Yet its not and this one is so poor at least went into the fight giving himself every possible chance by at least getting in shape. I honestly don't see that many viable fights out there at the moment that generates anywhere close to what a fight with Haye does or adds any more credibility to Wlad's resume. Though I would like to see him in with the Finnish Heavy Robert Helenius in the near future, some who matches up quite well against Wlad in terms of statistics.

I seem to have waffled on a bit here. Very Happy

by manos de piedra Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:43 am

The thing is though is that alot of Hayes power in the negotiations came from the fact he had the last belt, he did good ppv number and many people out there believed he had a real shot of winning.

If he went for an immdiate rematch he has none of those things. He would have to accept much less of what would be a much smaller purse. How many fans would be rushing back to see him or willing to fork out ppv again when the first fight was so one sided?

A couple of good wins in boxing does wonders. After the Mayweather fight people were saying Hatton should retire and had nowhere to go. A year later and he was pretty much back facing the pound for pound best after a couple of wins.

Haye shouldnt find it too hard to get back into contention if he could win a couple of fights but he seems to really believe that these other contenders are not fit to share the ring with him. He may have to accept beating them is the best course of action though whether he thinks they are fat and useless or not. The only reason I could see Vitali wanting to face him now would be to dish out his own brand of punishment and maybe KO him. But financially and credibly the fight would be nowhere near as big as last Saturdays. Haye would be bringing far less to the table and not many in the boxing world would fancy his chances. I think people would just think Haye was after a payday and intended to hide and seek his way to the money rather than go there to win.

by captain carrantuohil Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:46 am

Nice to hear from you, dass. You will understand that we are on different sides of this particular argument. To me, Haye has as much credibility as Arreola, Chambers, Kevin Johnson, and a ton of other contenders who turned up to get a thorough beating from one or other of the Klitschkos. He therefore makes no more marketable sense (apart from in the UK) than any other top-ranked heavyweight. The idea, for instance, that US TV is going to take the slightest interest in Haye versus any Klitschko again must just be pie in the sky.

I didn't expect much else from Haye during the fight, insofar as I expected Klitschko to be too big and too good for him, whatever tactics he adopted. It was the contrast between Haye's blazing words of a new era and his meek, almost pusillanimous acceptance of defeat that really grated with me. As for the after-fight nonsense....well, even some of the biggest mouths in boxing history have been entirely gracious in defeat, be the decision ever so controversial. Haye's antics fused personal shortcomings with professional ineptitude in a way that one rarely encounters these days.

You're undoubtedly right - it takes all sorts to make a world. It's a mistake, though, to believe that being personally graceless and professionally lightweight is a sure-fire recipe for drumming up support. For Haye to get the oxygen of publicity and big bucks that he craves so much, he's now going to have to come up with some zingingly good performances against proper fighters - Adamek and Povetkin come to mind. These may not be all-time greats, but they're considerably better than anything that Haye has ever beaten as a heavyweight.

by **Fists of Fury** Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:58 am

Zingingly, word of the day that one, Captain!

by Dass Tue 05 Jul 2011, 11:06 am

Well Captain or Manos I can't really disagree with anything you've really said it just comes down to perspective and where we stand on certain issues. The post fight stuff for me personally as well has been cringe worthy but you only have to look at this forum to see that Haye generates controversy and that sells.

I personally think Haye brings as much money if not more than any other Heavy out there even with the loss. There's still the angle to spin from some quarters that if Haye was more aggressive he'd have a good chance in a rematch as from a defensive point of view his head movement was impressive during the fight. He'd have also learned from the first fight putting the experience to good use, I personally think he would lose another wide decision unless he got lucky with a punch. Then you have the angle that Haye sits in the Audley position of one section just wanting to see him be punished in the ring and watching it for that purpose alone.

The ideal scenario for Haye would be to spend a few more years in the game and build himself up again but if he is determined to retire then Wlad or Vitali could pick up a decent paycheck and then move on to the rest of the division afterwards. I don't think Haye personally cares how he's viewed on his comments, the support or not doesn't matter as long as interest is there even if it is negative. Very Happy

by Rowley Tue 05 Jul 2011, 11:07 am

I personally enjoyed pisillanimous Fists. to be serious for a minute though how much money does Haye realistically bring to the table now? From what I understand most of the money he brought was from PPV sales. Seems reasonable to question how many PPV sales a rematch would generate, Haye is in the middle of a PR slump with him cast at best a poor loser and at worst a chancer. Given this and the fact there was nothing to suggest the result will be even vaguely different next time around and does anyone really think a rematch generates anywhere near the bucks this one did. Couple this with there being slim to no chance of Wlad coming to the UK for the fight and personally think Haye is seriously overestimating his marketability.

As others have said a couple of wins over best of the rest guys like Povetkin or Adamek would go someway to rebuilding his credibility, whether he has either the energy or ability to do this remains to be seen

by lightsout Tue 05 Jul 2011, 11:59 am

manos de piedra wrote:I think Haye was going to come in for some almightly criticism after that performance regardless of what he said or did after. But clearly his reaction has made it worse. The most effective medicine would be just to have accepted defeat gracefully, congralutated Wlad and then if he really wanted another shot to come out and say he intended to fight his way back into conention. That would have impresed me the most anyway.

Unfortunately he has a bit of history with excuses when faced with criticism. He was cut in sparring before Ruiz, he had money on himself to win in the 3rd against Harrison, he hurt his hand against Valuev and now he had a sore toe and the ref was against him for Wlad.

It bothers me that he still thinks he should just get another shot and that he is the only credible opponent out there for the Klitschkos still. It seems hes just going to try and talk his way back to a title shot as I saw on Sky Sports he seemed to rule out fighting a couple of contenders. Ironically, I think this would actually be his best course of action as he needs the proper heavyweight preparation and some good divisonal wins would go some way to restoring his reputation which is pretty low right now. If he could go to America and try and take on guys like Solis/Chambers/Arreola he would restore credibility and earn his way back into contention. He is still going to be rated pretty high in the divisional lists so he could only be a couple of fights away from another shot - look at Hatton post Mayweather.

I also think theres a chance the public opinion against him ould force him back into the ring to fight these guys if the Klitschkos dont accomodate him. He wanted a media career post boxing but that will have been damaged by his trash talk and heavy defeat. His earning power for another Klitschko fight at the moment will be rock bottom now and he has literally nothing anymore to offer him any leverage in negotiations. If he could win his way back into contention then interest in him would rise again, his earning power would go up and most importantly he would have earned his way to second shot.

I totally agree with all of the above and am looking forward to such intelligent people as old 'Fists' coming up with some sound resoning as to why his previous statements around the subject of the fight being a 'close' one should drive Wlad into giving Haye an automatic rematch, I notice that 'Fists' in the face of a stream of balanced and intelligent comment on this thread has chsoen to stay 'off subject' with his fanatical views on Haye ie not mention them. Haye brings nothing more to the HW division in my view other than months of pathetic mud slinging before a fight and then a long list of excuses after an embarassing performance, if the 'Fists/Dave 667 etc etc etc' want more of the same then get behind David 'I'm from the streets' Haye.... go for it .....I'm looking forward to some PBF action in the run up to his contest this Sept ........now there is guy who loves to 'trash talk' but do you know what when has he ever let you guys down.

by Guest Tue 05 Jul 2011, 5:40 pm

mmmm... don't know how I missed this one.

But better late than never as the old adage goes..

Very Happy

Wholeheartedly agree with every detractory and derisory comment made, particularly with regards to his trash talking aforehand. Many fighters have trash talked in the past, however, most did it with a twinkle in the eye (ala Hamed, Ali) or then delivered the goods in the ring (a la Mayweather). Haye did neither; he simply came across as a mean-spirited, dim-witted, thug.

Unfortunately, the insufferable Mr Haye continues to pour out his lamentable excuses.

I'm beginning to hope for a fight with Vitali, just so that arrogant smirk of his
can be wiped away for good.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaalleluuuuuuuuuuuuuujah

Yahoo

by pauline1981 Tue 05 Jul 2011, 6:16 pm

Get well soon david haye

by Strongback Tue 05 Jul 2011, 7:09 pm

Video explanation of the word pusillanimous.

Worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qyHS4met7c

by Captain Charisma Tue 05 Jul 2011, 7:26 pm

Haye did a great job building this fight......The amount of threads and one can only imagine the pay per view buys prove that there is something in a guy who cleaned out cruiserweight and went to a decision (if somewhat lopsided) a true hall of fame heavyweight.

I think David Haye will be fine. And i'd love to see him and adamek at cruiser after Vitali does a Vladimir on Adamek.

by tunes666 Tue 05 Jul 2011, 7:43 pm

I see Booth has now come out in the press looking to mend the big PR disaster... At least he is sounding better than Haye..

by Captain Charisma Tue 05 Jul 2011, 8:15 pm

PR disaster or the fact that post match interviews in sports are always irrelevant simply due to the fact that perspective especially from those who are defeated can be lacking despite their intentions.

Haye regrets what he said about the toe.

I would have enjoyed the reaction if Haye had pulled out with the broken toe three weeks ago.

I'd say this boxing forum and all the American pundits would have crashed.

by norfolkturkey Tue 05 Jul 2011, 8:56 pm

I believe far too much is being made of Haye bleating about his toe immediately after the fight. In the mindset of champion it is very difficult to accept you were outclassed on the night, and using his toe as an excuse was the only crumb of comfort Haye could cling onto in the immediate aftermath. I forgive him for it, and since then he has redeemed himself in his subsequent interviews by clearly accepting he was beaten by the better man and giving his dues to Wladimir.

It seems people want a pound of flesh no matter what. Haye is no more guilty than any of the other fighters Wlad has faced who have proclaimed to "do a Sanders" and knock him out, and then failed to deliver. Haye just went that little bit further with his braggadocio, but we all loved him for it at the time, with many of us proclaiming he was the breath of fresh air the heavyweight division badly needed.

For what it's worth I'm annoyed at myself for buying into the possibility Haye could destroy Wlad in a few rounds and lost a fair bit of money in the process. I should have known better, but that isn't Haye's fault, anyone could see he clearly believed he had the tools to do the job and that conviction was shared by all around him. Haye certainly wasn't conning anyone in this buildup to the fight and for that reason I bear no ill feelings at all.

Finally, may I just join many others in declaring my new found respect for Wladimir Klitschko. Although he didn't land a great deal himself of note, his dominance of the ring was absolute, using his footwork and jab to utterly nullify an extremely dangerous opponent. He also took a couple of Hayemakers better than I expected him to - if only he showed more aggression he would be a terrifying heavyweight and a match for any of the ATGs.

by rycoys Tue 05 Jul 2011, 9:11 pm

tunes , are you blind ? or were you watching a different fight ? wlad was cheating , anytime haye got near him he would rap his forearm round hayes neck and lean on him , in the rules of boxing that is a FOUL , yes wlad was fantastic on the night and deserved to win but your opinion on the fight is based on your dislike for haye ! , i can see why people are happy he lost due to his trash talking but alot of things went against him , one loss doesent make him a bad fighter it just dident go his way on the night ,

by tunes666 Wed 06 Jul 2011, 9:47 am

rycoys wrote:tunes , are you blind ? or were you watching a different fight ? wlad was cheating , anytime haye got near him he would rap his forearm round hayes neck and lean on him , in the rules of boxing that is a FOUL , yes wlad was fantastic on the night and deserved to win but your opinion on the fight is based on your dislike for haye ! , i can see why people are happy he lost due to his trash talking but alot of things went against him , one loss doesent make him a bad fighter it just dident go his way on the night ,

You need to take those blinkers off mate.

Name me a boxing fight where where fighters get on the inside they never hold, it is part of boxing its just a case of fighters not doing it all the time. Yes Wlad done it a couple times but Haye was milking it and most of the time Wlad was not holding and Haye was trying to make out he was. Its a physical sport what the hell, every time WK touched him he complained and went down. there were times Haye held Walds arm and Wlad complained!.

What did you think of Davids Rabbit Punching?

by Young_Towzer Wed 06 Jul 2011, 10:23 am

BALTIMORA wrote:Tunes, you don't half go on. Are you James Degale, because that would explain your childish persistence and general bitterness and resentment towards the Hayemaker guys. It's become real boring.

He's right though, Adam Booth is a bit of a plonker who tries to wind other camps up, loves a TV camera, then there's Dave Coldwell, an absolute baffling yes man who just rabbits on but then sees Rhodes get destroyed, and Haye get his head jabbed off for 12 rounds.

by pauline1981 Wed 06 Jul 2011, 12:22 pm

Respect to haye the man fought with sore toe so fans could see fight

by rycoys Wed 06 Jul 2011, 8:33 pm

tunes666 wrote:
rycoys wrote:tunes , are you blind ? or were you watching a different fight ? wlad was cheating , anytime haye got near him he would rap his forearm round hayes neck and lean on him , in the rules of boxing that is a FOUL , yes wlad was fantastic on the night and deserved to win but your opinion on the fight is based on your dislike for haye ! , i can see why people are happy he lost due to his trash talking but alot of things went against him , one loss doesent make him a bad fighter it just dident go his way on the night ,

You need to take those blinkers off mate.

Name me a boxing fight where where fighters get on the inside they never hold, it is part of boxing its just a case of fighters not doing it all the time. Yes Wlad done it a couple times but Haye was milking it and most of the time Wlad was not holding and Haye was trying to make out he was. Its a physical sport what the hell, every time WK touched him he complained and went down. there were times Haye held Walds arm and Wlad complained!.

What did you think of Davids Rabbit Punching?

havent got blinkers on mate , what i say is based on what i saw in hamburg , its so obvious everything you say is based on your dislike for haye , wlad was not holding he was useing his forearm and pushing down thats a foul ! haye only stood a chance if the ref would let him fight inside and he dident ,
and compairing haye rabbit punching to wlads antics is laughable , wlad was the better on the night simple but why slate haye so much for losing against the no 1 heavy in the world , im sure i remember great fighters haveing a bad night !

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