Boxing's Quickest Falls from Grace?

With Paul Williams' 'win' over the weekend, I was thinking how quickly his stock has fallen in just 18 months.

He went from being hyped as "the most avoided man in boxing" to winning a very close fight against Martinez which many thought he lost and ceertainly lost his title with the fight.

He then won another controversial fight against Cintron, albeit not due to Williams but because Cintron literally took a dive! Although he got the win, it did nothing to boost his legacy or reputation.

Following that, Williams got utterly sparked by Martinez in a rematch.

He then had his comeback fight to send out a message he's back against a carefully picked fighter with only 16 fights to his name, and losses, well losses in every aspect apart from getting the judges decision!

With Williams saying he only has 2/3 fights left (he's only 29) he appears over and I can only see him now getting big fights due to others opting to fight him because they see an easier fight than perceived 18 months ago.

What other fighters have suffered dramatic falls from the top in such a short time?

Enzo is right up there from recent times, Naz was stopped in his tracks too.

David Haye too, possibly.

Firstly, just a polite reminder, it's "loses"... not losses

And i think rather alot is being made of PWills fall, he's faced 2 extremely good lefties and was getting well into the fight at the time Cintron took a dive.

It's become quite clear that he's got an issue with the lefties and more so their left hooks that he just can't seem to get out of the way of.

Lara was no mug

It's actually loses

Judah went into something of a tailspin on the back of the Kostya blow out. Is easy to forget now but when he burst on the scene Zab was massively touted, was seen in many eyes as being a fixture on the P4P lists for a good number of the years and whilst his career post that fight has not been exactly poor it has certainly not hit the heights many were predicting.

rowley wrote:Judah went into something of a tailspin on the back of the Kostya blow out. Is easy to forget now but when he burst on the scene Zab was massively touted, was seen in many eyes as being a fixture on the P4P lists for a good number of the years and whilst his career post that fight has not been exactly poor it has certainly not hit the heights many were predicting.

Just watched the full fight last night with ring entrances and all that, there was a Russian popstar miming in the ring to her song for Tyszu coming in, it's possibly one of the worst things i've witnissed in my life, she was about 50 with mega plastic surgery but it looked like it went a bit wrong, she couldn't even mime, it put me right off the fight, anybody seen her?

coxy0001 wrote:Firstly, just a polite reminder, it's "looses"... not losses

Just like my mother! How I got 2 B's in English i'll never know? Well I guess they say exams are easier now!

I think Williams is finished and manly because of his attitude, it stunk after the his 'win' this weekend.

When Kellerman was talking to him about being unable to avoid the left much like against Martinez he didn't seem to care and basically said he wouldn't be too different in a rubber match with Martinez which Kellerman seemed shocked about.

He seems to have one foot out of the door in terms to his career so without that extra drive he'll come unstuck against top flight opposition now IMO.

Valero.

Scottrf wrote:Valero.

Probably the most brutal, sudden ans shocking - I of all people should have raised this!

Jermain Taylor, in recent years, springs to mind. After he upset the apple cart by dethroning Hopkins in 2005, most felt sure that he'd prove himself a fabulous Middleweight champion for many years to come, and understandably so; Hopkins, even at forty, was a massively difficult man to beat, Taylor was young and, clearly, had a huge amount of talent and ability.

But it all went sour after that. After the two Hopkins fights, Taylor held on to his title for three or four fights but usually looked awful in doing so, struggling badly with smaller men such as Spinks, Wright and Ouma - needing a dubious decision here or there - and was then blasted out by Pavlik. He's since stepped up a level in opposition twice against Froch and Abraham, and been knocked out / stopped twice. Most thought he'd still be a major player by 2011, instead we're all here begging for him to retire and wondering what might have been.

McGuigan. Quite literally overnight, his fall was. Admittedly, the signs were there when he struggled to overcome Cabrera, but the loss to Cruz turned a superstar into a recluse. Obviously, he had a lot to deal with outside the ring, but those of us who remembered how he was arguably the most famous boxer in the world for a year, could only look on aghast as he simply disappeared from view for two or three years.

At truly elite level, I'd say Henry Armstrong's was the quickest decline.

Armstrong is my idea of the second best fighter of all time, and between 1938 and 1940 he racked up enough great wins to constitute a career resumé but, nonetheless, he pretty much slipped off the radar following his loss to Zivic. Granted, he would still pick up a couple of very good wins, but he also shipped a couple of ignominious losses and would never again be anything remotely akin to the force of nature which he had been.

Don Curry, anyone? In 1986 he was most people's pick as the top man, pound for pound, in the world, was being mentioned as an opponent for Hagler in a possible megafight and, in some cases, was being touted as a future legend.

Roll on to 1989; he's been beaten in a huge upset at Welterweight by Honeyghan, had his clock cleaned by Mike McCallum (leading to a 'chinny' accusation which, although totally untrue, he was never quite able to shake off) and has somehow contrived to lose his 154 lb crown to the hitherto unknown Rene Jacquot, leaving him with a reputation as a man who never won when it mattered, and a man who never fulfilled his potential.

Almost said Curry but knew it wouldn't end well.

Scottrf wrote:Almost said Curry but knew it wouldn't end well.

It rarely does.

What about Lacy. Never recovered from fighting Calzaghe, even had trouble with Manfredo!!

Yep I'm going with Valero, one of the greatest losses of recent years I've watched the fight with 'loco' maybe 20 times and I rate it as one the most brutal fights I've seen .... the way Valero first takes the fight out of 'loco' and then grinds him down with hard persistent punishment is cruel no other way to desribe it, Valero took some terrible punishment to the body as well and was smiling and buzzing between rounds, the man was made of granite or was totally out of it on Coke ....one of the two.

David Haye is the very recent example. If he hadn't been such a watt (anagram) in the pre-fight build up he would have been forgiven. But his stock falls massively and I am not a big fan of an immediate rematch. I really hope neither K bro give him the time of day unless he earns his shot the proper way this time by fighting the fringe contenders. Would gain much more respect by doing it the hard way rather than through his putrid tongue.

Also can't help but think of Jeff Lacy getting annihilated against Calzaghe. Seen as an overhyped bum now but back in 2006 this guy was lauded as America's next big talent. Massive fall from future p4p top 10 fighter to high school janitor within a few fights.

BHop has cursed many a fighter - Kelly Pavlik, Felix Trinidad, Jean Pascal and strangely Jermain Taylor even. Always thought he went into freefall despite his two wins against BHop.

bhb001 wrote:What about Lacy. Never recovered from fighting Calzaghe, even had trouble with Manfredo!!

I'm not sure Lacy was ever that good he had been in pretty soft then got flung in at the deep and against Calzaghe and never really recovered. I always felt that was a case of poor management and match making.

prettyboykev wrote:

bhb001 wrote:What about Lacy. Never recovered from fighting Calzaghe, even had trouble with Manfredo!!

I'm not sure Lacy was ever that good he had been in pretty soft then got flung in at the deep and against Calzaghe and never really recovered. I always felt that was a case of poor management and match making.

Posting doesn't preclude the fighter not being very good. He was the next big thing and then exposed and quickly faded from the scene. This, to my mind, is a fall from grace

bhb001 wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

bhb001 wrote:What about Lacy. Never recovered from fighting Calzaghe, even had trouble with Manfredo!!

I'm not sure Lacy was ever that good he had been in pretty soft then got flung in at the deep and against Calzaghe and never really recovered. I always felt that was a case of poor management and match making.

Posting doesn't preclude the fighter not being very good. He was the next big thing and then exposed and quickly faded from the scene. This, to my mind, is a fall from grace

He was the next big thing based on a record that had no depth to it. I felt sorry for Lacy during the Calzaghe fight he was out his depth against an experienced world class operator.

Fists of Fury wrote:David Haye too, possibly.

Watched the Klitschko fight ten times it is not as one sided as people make out, Klitschko just about outworked Haye in nearly all of the rounds...Haye slipped the jab well and defensively was spot on it was his attacking display that was poor everytime he throws his right hand haye is off balance.

10 times? You masochist.

Yeah sums it up pretty well PBF. It was much closer than some say, and workrate couple with Haye's lack of success offensively is the only real difference.

Scottrf wrote:10 times? You masochist.

I like studying fights

margarito's was pretty quick, beats Cotto is apparently a beast that everyone is sh*tscared of then gets blasted out by mosley and exposed as a cheat, and now is completley shot and will get walked over by Cotto with any luck

The genius of PBF wrote:

Scottrf wrote:10 times? You masochist.

I like studying fights

I think you should have concentrated more the first 9 times...

Fists of Fury wrote:Yeah sums it up pretty well PBF. It was much closer than some say, and workrate couple with Haye's lack of success offensively is the only real difference.

Haye is never the one to throw a lot of punches, he fights in spurts...I would still gave Haye a shot in the rematch as well.

Scottrf wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

Scottrf wrote:10 times? You masochist.

I like studying fights

I think you should have concentrated more the first 9 times...

You got to cover every angle Scott.

Seanusarrilius wrote:margarito's was pretty quick, beats Cotto is apparently a beast that everyone is sh*tscared of then gets blasted out by mosley and exposed as a cheat, and now is completley shot and will get walked over by Cotto with any luck

I hope Cotto walks over Magarito as well but I'm not sure how much Cotto has left or what state he is in mentally. Pacquiao gave him a brutal beating as well. Margarito still has an iron chin and an still punch. Cotto doesn't have Pacs speed so Margarito will probably let his hands go a bit more often. I'm looking forward to their fight I think it could be a FOTY candidate it just depends on what they still have to offer.

The genius of PBF wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

Scottrf wrote:10 times? You masochist.

I like studying fights

I think you should have concentrated more the first 9 times...

You got to cover every angle Scott.

Perhaps why you are such an outstanding boxing intellect.

Fists of Fury wrote:Yeah sums it up pretty well PBF. It was much closer than some say, and workrate couple with Haye's lack of success offensively is the only real difference.

So you're saying fighter B throwing and landing more punches, combined with fighter A not really throwing any punches is the only real difference.

Pretty big difference though isn't it!

I'd also throw in that Wlad's footwork has been massively underrated by pbf in his summary there. Wlad's outmanoevred Haye all night - which is why his overhand right could connect with nothing more than the shoulder. Comes with footwork but intelligence and ring generalship were also hugely in Wlad's favour.

I'd also like to make an honourable mention to the fact that Haye continually threw jabs to the body. 5 live commentary and Steve Bunce were building that up in a jingoistic orgasm - but truth be told - 3 jabs to the head or a jab+right cross do not equal 1 jab to the body in return. Not in the traditional sense of scoring the sport, that is.

prettyboykev wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:margarito's was pretty quick, beats Cotto is apparently a beast that everyone is sh*tscared of then gets blasted out by mosley and exposed as a cheat, and now is completley shot and will get walked over by Cotto with any luck

I hope Cotto walks over Magarito as well but I'm not sure how much Cotto has left or what state he is in mentally. Pacquiao gave him a brutal beating as well. Margarito still has an iron chin and an still punch. Cotto doesn't have Pacs speed so Margarito will probably let his hands go a bit more often. I'm looking forward to their fight I think it could be a FOTY candidate it just depends on what they still have to offer.

both are damaged goods for me as they have both been in some wars. Margacheato may just have the style that Cotto cant overcome,but i would love Cotto to avenge their first meeting, hopefully he can

oxring wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Yeah sums it up pretty well PBF. It was much closer than some say, and workrate couple with Haye's lack of success offensively is the only real difference.

So you're saying fighter B throwing and landing more punches, combined with fighter A not really throwing any punches is the only real difference.

Pretty big difference though isn't it!

I'd also throw in that Wlad's footwork has been massively underrated by pbf in his summary there. Wlad's outmanoevred Haye all night - which is why his overhand right could connect with nothing more than the shoulder. Comes with footwork but intelligence and ring generalship were also hugely in Wlad's favour.

I'd also like to make an honourable mention to the fact that Haye continually threw jabs to the body. 5 live commentary and Steve Bunce were building that up in a jingoistic orgasm - but truth be told - 3 jabs to the head or a jab+right cross do not equal 1 jab to the body in return. Not in the traditional sense of scoring the sport, that is.

Never talked about Wlad's footwork ox...If you watch all of Haye's fights he is off balance when throwing the right hand.

Haye did throw the big punches though Oxy, and had minor success, but all in all they were too inaccurate and his timing seemed off, so had this been remedied then we may have been looking at a different story. Also, Haye's reluctance to follow up the big overhand rights with say a left to the body (probably because he was so horribly off balance) didn't help his cause.

Seanusarrilius wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:margarito's was pretty quick, beats Cotto is apparently a beast that everyone is sh*tscared of then gets blasted out by mosley and exposed as a cheat, and now is completley shot and will get walked over by Cotto with any luck

I hope Cotto walks over Magarito as well but I'm not sure how much Cotto has left or what state he is in mentally. Pacquiao gave him a brutal beating as well. Margarito still has an iron chin and an still punch. Cotto doesn't have Pacs speed so Margarito will probably let his hands go a bit more often. I'm looking forward to their fight I think it could be a FOTY candidate it just depends on what they still have to offer.

both are damaged good s for meas they have both been in some wars. Margacheato may just have the style that Cotto cant overcome,but i woul dlove Cotto to avenge their first meeting, hopefully he can

I never wanted to see Margarito box again after the hand wrap scandal. Mosley is one of my all time favourite fighters. He is going to fight again even after the beating Pac gave him and I can't think of a better fight than the Cotto one for either fighter. I hope Cotto beats him my only worry is if Cotto wins he might go looking for the Alvarez fight or even worse Martinez and I could see both absolutely battering him.

Fists of Fury wrote:Haye did throw the big punches though Oxy, and had minor success, but all in all they were too inaccurate and his timing seemed off, so had this been remedied then we may have been looking at a different story. Also, Haye's reluctance to follow up the big overhand rights with say a left to the body (probably because he was so horribly off balance) didn't help his cause.

The bitter Dan Rafael is revelling in Haye's defeat just because Haye snubbed him for a interview.

The genius of PBF wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Haye did throw the big punches though Oxy, and had minor success, but all in all they were too inaccurate and his timing seemed off, so had this been remedied then we may have been looking at a different story. Also, Haye's reluctance to follow up the big overhand rights with say a left to the body (probably because he was so horribly off balance) didn't help his cause.

The bitter Dan Rafael is revelling in Haye's defeat just because Haye snubbed him for a interview.

Not sure he is bitter Haye did a lot of talking and bad mouthed Wlad and his previous opponents. He showed himself to be no better than some of the so called fat American bums he was talking about. He deserves all the stick he gets he was big enough to dish plenty out in the K bro's direction pre fight he's going to need to take it on the chin now.

Fists of Fury wrote:Haye did throw the big punches though Oxy, and had minor success, but all in all they were too inaccurate and his timing seemed off, so had this been remedied then we may have been looking at a different story. Also, Haye's reluctance to follow up the big overhand rights with say a left to the body (probably because he was so horribly off balance) didn't help his cause.

I'd agree - it was an inability to follow the overhand right with a left to the body, due to poor footwork rather than reluctance.

Re: Haye throwing the big punches - not really true. We got excited when Haye threw his Hayemaker - but the mostly missed - caught Wlad flush once in the third and once in the 12th. Wlad, meanwhile, responded in the 3rd with a hard right cross, in the 12th with another hard straight right - and in all the other rounds as well.

Compubox would agree with you - suggesting that Haye outlanded Klitschko in power punches 36-29.

But that's one of the worst compubox's I've seen in a while - for instance, they reckon Haye landed 4 power shots - which isn't true.

Furthermore, Compubox reckon that Wlad threw more power punches than Haye - 133-119.

Anyway - I'm not sure the conclusion that Haye threw the big punches is a sound one.

prettyboykev wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Haye did throw the big punches though Oxy, and had minor success, but all in all they were too inaccurate and his timing seemed off, so had this been remedied then we may have been looking at a different story. Also, Haye's reluctance to follow up the big overhand rights with say a left to the body (probably because he was so horribly off balance) didn't help his cause.

The bitter Dan Rafael is revelling in Haye's defeat just because Haye snubbed him for a interview.

Not sure he is bitter Haye did a lot of talking and bad mouthed Wlad and his previous opponents. He showed himself to be no better than some of the so called fat American bums he was talking about. He deserves all the stick he gets he was big enough to dish plenty out in the K bro's direction pre fight he's going to need to take it on the chin now.

Read his blogs, always having a pop at Haye...also praises the Klitschkos to high heaven because they sadly give him interviews...Why have a pop at Haye's attitude? If everyone was all gentleman like there would be less interest in the fights.

He makes Frank Warren look less bitter.

Maybe Dan Rafael took it personally when Haye had a go at fat American bums.

Rafael is just a spineless egomaniac. Tones himself down to appear on Sky, slags of the efforts of boxers like Briggs while eating himself into an early grave. He is so petty with Haye.

The genius of PBF wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Haye did throw the big punches though Oxy, and had minor success, but all in all they were too inaccurate and his timing seemed off, so had this been remedied then we may have been looking at a different story. Also, Haye's reluctance to follow up the big overhand rights with say a left to the body (probably because he was so horribly off balance) didn't help his cause.

The bitter Dan Rafael is revelling in Haye's defeat just because Haye snubbed him for a interview.

Not sure he is bitter Haye did a lot of talking and bad mouthed Wlad and his previous opponents. He showed himself to be no better than some of the so called fat American bums he was talking about. He deserves all the stick he gets he was big enough to dish plenty out in the K bro's direction pre fight he's going to need to take it on the chin now.

Read his blogs, always having a pop at Haye...also praises the Klitschkos to high heaven because they sadly give him interviews...Why have a pop at Haye's attitude? If everyone was all gentleman like there would be less interest in the fights.

He makes Frank Warren look less bitter.

Maybe Dan Rafael took it personally when Haye had a go at fat American bums.

I like Rafael I think he's one of the best boxing writers around. Haye had proved nothing at heavyweight and the K bro's demand respect they have dominated the division for nearly a decade.

Scottrf wrote:Rafael is just a spineless egomaniac. Tones himself down to appear on Sky, slags of the efforts of boxers like Briggs while eating himself into an early grave. He is so petty with Haye.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/641851-shannon-briggs-accuses-dan-rafael-of-espn-of-conflict-of-interest

Briggs sums up Dan Rafael perfectly

prettyboykev wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Haye did throw the big punches though Oxy, and had minor success, but all in all they were too inaccurate and his timing seemed off, so had this been remedied then we may have been looking at a different story. Also, Haye's reluctance to follow up the big overhand rights with say a left to the body (probably because he was so horribly off balance) didn't help his cause.

The bitter Dan Rafael is revelling in Haye's defeat just because Haye snubbed him for a interview.

Not sure he is bitter Haye did a lot of talking and bad mouthed Wlad and his previous opponents. He showed himself to be no better than some of the so called fat American bums he was talking about. He deserves all the stick he gets he was big enough to dish plenty out in the K bro's direction pre fight he's going to need to take it on the chin now.

Read his blogs, always having a pop at Haye...also praises the Klitschkos to high heaven because they sadly give him interviews...Why have a pop at Haye's attitude? If everyone was all gentleman like there would be less interest in the fights.

He makes Frank Warren look less bitter.

Maybe Dan Rafael took it personally when Haye had a go at fat American bums.

I like Rafael I think he's one of the best boxing writers around. Haye had proved nothing at heavyweight and the K bro's demand respect they have dominated the division for nearly a decade.

I think he is the worst my plagarism work on here was inspired by him...read his articles they are mostly off other sites...Haye was the WBA champion beat champions in Ruiz and Valuev.

Haye more than proved his shot...Also Wlad only starting dominating the division since 2006 hardly a decade now isit?

oxring wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Haye did throw the big punches though Oxy, and had minor success, but all in all they were too inaccurate and his timing seemed off, so had this been remedied then we may have been looking at a different story. Also, Haye's reluctance to follow up the big overhand rights with say a left to the body (probably because he was so horribly off balance) didn't help his cause.

I'd agree - it was an inability to follow the overhand right with a left to the body, due to poor footwork rather than reluctance.

Re: Haye throwing the big punches - not really true. We got excited when Haye threw his Hayemaker - but the mostly missed - caught Wlad flush once in the third and once in the 12th. Wlad, meanwhile, responded in the 3rd with a hard right cross, in the 12th with another hard straight right - and in all the other rounds as well.

Compubox would agree with you - suggesting that Haye outlanded Klitschko in power punches 36-29.

But that's one of the worst compubox's I've seen in a while - for instance, they reckon Haye landed 4 power shots - which isn't true.

Furthermore, Compubox reckon that Wlad threw more power punches than Haye - 133-119.

Anyway - I'm not sure the conclusion that Haye threw the big punches is a sound one.

Wlad had Haye's right hand timed another factor in why Haye could not land much.

Davey Moore.....Went from $500,000 for Duran to $10,000 ESPN fighter....

RIP.....

The genius of PBF wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Haye did throw the big punches though Oxy, and had minor success, but all in all they were too inaccurate and his timing seemed off, so had this been remedied then we may have been looking at a different story. Also, Haye's reluctance to follow up the big overhand rights with say a left to the body (probably because he was so horribly off balance) didn't help his cause.

The bitter Dan Rafael is revelling in Haye's defeat just because Haye snubbed him for a interview.

Not sure he is bitter Haye did a lot of talking and bad mouthed Wlad and his previous opponents. He showed himself to be no better than some of the so called fat American bums he was talking about. He deserves all the stick he gets he was big enough to dish plenty out in the K bro's direction pre fight he's going to need to take it on the chin now.

Read his blogs, always having a pop at Haye...also praises the Klitschkos to high heaven because they sadly give him interviews...Why have a pop at Haye's attitude? If everyone was all gentleman like there would be less interest in the fights.

He makes Frank Warren look less bitter.

Maybe Dan Rafael took it personally when Haye had a go at fat American bums.

I like Rafael I think he's one of the best boxing writers around. Haye had proved nothing at heavyweight and the K bro's demand respect they have dominated the division for nearly a decade.

I think he is the worst my plagarism work on here was inspired by him...read his articles they are mostly off other sites...Haye was the WBA champion beat champions in Ruiz and Valuev.

Haye more than proved his shot...Also Wlad only starting dominating the division since 2006 hardly a decade now isit?

I said they dominated as brothers. Valuev was awful, Ruiz was well past his best which was never that good anyway and his other wins at HW are Fraudley and Monte Barrett.

prettyboykev wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Haye did throw the big punches though Oxy, and had minor success, but all in all they were too inaccurate and his timing seemed off, so had this been remedied then we may have been looking at a different story. Also, Haye's reluctance to follow up the big overhand rights with say a left to the body (probably because he was so horribly off balance) didn't help his cause.

The bitter Dan Rafael is revelling in Haye's defeat just because Haye snubbed him for a interview.

Not sure he is bitter Haye did a lot of talking and bad mouthed Wlad and his previous opponents. He showed himself to be no better than some of the so called fat American bums he was talking about. He deserves all the stick he gets he was big enough to dish plenty out in the K bro's direction pre fight he's going to need to take it on the chin now.

Read his blogs, always having a pop at Haye...also praises the Klitschkos to high heaven because they sadly give him interviews...Why have a pop at Haye's attitude? If everyone was all gentleman like there would be less interest in the fights.

He makes Frank Warren look less bitter.

Maybe Dan Rafael took it personally when Haye had a go at fat American bums.

I like Rafael I think he's one of the best boxing writers around. Haye had proved nothing at heavyweight and the K bro's demand respect they have dominated the division for nearly a decade.

I think he is the worst my plagarism work on here was inspired by him...read his articles they are mostly off other sites...Haye was the WBA champion beat champions in Ruiz and Valuev.

Haye more than proved his shot...Also Wlad only starting dominating the division since 2006 hardly a decade now isit?

I said they dominated as brothers. Valuev was awful, Ruiz was well past his best which was never that good anyway and his other wins at HW are Fraudley and Monte Barrett.

Even with the brothers they haven't dominated anywhere near a decade...remember Vitali had a 4 year break from 2004.

The same Monte Barrett who dropped David Tua and got robbed of a win after Haye...Valuev was the champ and Ruiz a former champ, not Haye's fault the division is p!ss poor.

Better than the overrated Adamek who couldn't stop the likes of McBride and Grant...went life and death with a poor f@t never has been Arreola.

Haye is the best heavyweight out there outside the Klitschko brothers.

"Couldn't stop McBride and Grant"

But won clear decisions over both. Should we list the fact that you *ahem* pbf couldn't stop Mosley? Or a mentally unstable Judah?

And he clearly outboxed Arreola. That's not going life and death.

Arreola is a top 10 ranked HW.

Valuev was top 10 ranked because of the belt - not because of anyone he'd fought.

Ruiz wasn't top10. Barrett was just top50. Harrison was...well. Enough said.

Tua is old, fat and shot to blazes. Talking about the Barrett-Tua fight as though it proves Barrett had something to offer is a joke. Notwithstanding the fact that Barrett was robbed of a KD against Haye as well.

Haye would beat Adamek, (probably) - but Adamek has earnt his shot by fighting contenders. Haye did not and was ill prepared.