Should Haye just fight vitali?

Sorry to bring it back up but Vitali seems to want it.

http://www.boxingscene.com/vitali-avoid-excuses-i-want-knock-haye-out--41400

Now Haye v Wlad was a let down, it is well discussed why. But should haye take this fight? Is there an argument to say why not? His reputation is already tarnished iff he retires on back of Wlad performance. He could fight and beat someone before the end of the year then go for vitali in new year. Vitali of old would eat Haye alive and Vitali still might do that. But Vitali would also present Haye with more opportunities to hit him, Vitali is not scared to come forward and actually fire, wouldnt be cagey on his part so haye would be forced to be more aggressive himself. Haye might get knocked out but i bet it would be more entertaining.

Does anyone see this fight as a interesting and b likely to happen givent hat Haye will be offered a fraction of what he was offered last time.

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Never been convinced that Haye ever really fancied the idea of getting in the ring with Vitali, and after the one-sided loss to the apparently 'weaker' brother, I reckon he'll fancy it even less now.

Of course, if he were offered the fight, he's a lucky fella, to say the least. In no way does he deserve a title shot against the divisional number two after being shut out by the divisional number one - but from the outset, he'd be mad not to take the fight. But there is a key problem; Haye's ego.

He's basically said, in a roundabout way, that he'd have beaten Wladimir had it not been for the now infamous toe. Deep down, he must know that he's simply not in the same league as the brothers, much as it hurts him. So does he take a fight with Vitali, free from injury and hence with no excuses, and get knocked out, further underlining the fact that he simply wasn't as good as he had certain people believe? Or does he decline, slink off in to retirement and keep telling everyone who'll listen that he was, in fact, the saviour of the Heavyweight division, and it was only a cruel piece of luck with the toe injury which prevented him from showing that?

Personally, I don't think Haye should be stepping anywhere near a belt holder again unless he actually earns a ranking, but money talks louder than fairness and common sense in boxing these days.

vitali has a fight planned with adamek that is stopping haye fighting him. based on his last fight i consider the adamek fight for vitali a lot more appealing, haye has nothing to offer the brothers and doesnt deserve a chance, he should either retire or start afresh and work his way through the rankings back to mandatory challenger.

88Chris05 wrote:Never been convinced that Haye ever really fancied the idea of getting in the ring with Vitali, and after the one-sided loss to the apparently 'weaker' brother, I reckon he'll fancy it even less now.

Of course, if he were offered the fight, he's a lucky fella, to say the least. In no way does he deserve a title shot against the divisional number two after being shut out by the divisional number one - but from the outset, he'd be mad not to take the fight. But there is a key problem; Haye's ego.

He's basically said, in a roundabout way, that he'd have beaten Wladimir had it not been for the now infamous toe. Deep down, he must know that he's simply not in the same league as the brothers, much as it hurts him. So does he take a fight with Vitali, free from injury and hence with no excuses, and get knocked out, further underlining the fact that he simply wasn't as good as he had certain people believe? Or does he decline, slink off in to retirement and keep telling everyone who'll listen that he was, in fact, the saviour of the Heavyweight division, and it was only a cruel piece of luck with the toe injury which prevented him from showing that?

Personally, I don't think Haye should be stepping anywhere near a belt holder again unless he actually earns a ranking, but money talks louder than fairness and common sense in boxing these days.

Spot on, couldn't of put it better myself As Klitschko once said, get in the freeaking line!, i aint buying the toe thing either tbh, he could of kicked something after the schooling, lets face it he has anger issues. And for someone who had a broken toe he did plenty of running around the ring!

The only reason I can see Vitali wanting this is that he really wants to punish him himself. Financially the fight will be nowhere near as big as the last one.

The boxing public are pretty fickle and so much can change in a short space. Right now Hayes credibility and stock is terribly low so rushing back into a fight against the divisions best/second best doesnt make much sense to me commercially or professionally. If Haye could post an impressive win even over a decent challenger (which I think hes capable of) then I can imagine the Haye die hards emerging again and I think you will be sursprised how the "toe" excuse begins to gather weight. It would also make the fight more sellable and maybe give Haye some much needed leverage at the negotiating table (he has none there now).

I honestly think this is a case where it doesnt pay to cut corners. For Haye, rebuild your stock a little and try and look like you have fought your way back into contention. Time is against Vitali now so theres no harm in waiting in that sense. With Vitali facing Adamek there will be a lay off regardless so why not use the opportunity to fight someone decent and try and rebuild? Haye is still young and quite fresh in fight terms so rushing in to face Vitali who probably has pretty evil intentions for this one seems unneccesary, especially off the back of a one sided loss.

Would add that I would actually rather see Solis v Vitali if he is going to be handing out rematches as Solis actually looked more dangerous in one round than Haye did over 12. And there is also a much more valid reason for a rematch there.

manos de piedra wrote:Would add that I would actually rather see Solis v Vitali

So would I.

Unfinished business there, regardless of our opinions of what closed out the first meeting.

HumanWindmill wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Would add that I would actually rather see Solis v Vitali

So would I.

Unfinished business there, regardless of our opinions of what closed out the first meeting.

I'd like to see Solis fight once first. We've no idea what he'll be like post-knee surgery. He's ruptured his acl - that's major surgery and curtains for many an athlete - especially such a pie-loving chubby as Solis.

If Solis comes back and proves he can actually move unaided - then I agree - Solis before Haye.

If Vitali offers him a match then he may aswell take it, but it's a do or die, you lose than one there's no coming back after that. To be fair it is probably still more money than he would make against anyone else MAYBE barring a Wlad rematch...

I'd love Solis to get into the sort of shape he did as an amateur, a little heavier of course.

On a side note Jim Watt should have been nudged into retirement after that fight!

Day V Lately wrote:I'd love Solis to get into the sort of shape he did as an amateur, a little heavier of course.

On a side note Jim Watt should have been nudged into retirement after that fight!

What he do wrong? He predicted Wlad in a 12 round win over Haye...

haye would certainly have to beat a contener or two before being worthy of a shot v vitali, but lets be honest, in a divisision like this he would only had to beat say a Arreola,chagaev to be right back up there, then he could preach about how he was going to go for it v Vitali and we would watch. I dont think he will, reirement beckons i think for Haye

solis did look good before his injury

Seanusarrilius wrote:haye would certainly have to beat a contener or two before being worthy of a shot v vitali, but lets be honest, in a divisision like this he would only had to beat say a Arreola,chagaev to be right back up there, then he could preach about how he was going to go for it v Vitali and we would watch. I dont think he will, reirement beckons i think for Haye

solis did look good before his injury

Unless Vitali wants him that badly... Wlad didn't get angry at all the pre-fight comments but Vitali most certainly did! He was far more rattled and he is the one with the temper wouldn't shock me if Haye has accidentally only purpose landed himself two fights in one with his mouth.

maybe a logical step for haye would be to try and line up a fight with either solis, or the WBC mandatory challenger (which i beleive is Bermane Stiverne, who i think will be pretty decent when he has a few more fights under his belt) and put himself back in picture again. i dont know how solis is recovering but surely haye has the pull to arrange either of those fights.

Maybe if he wants it, but I can see him getting the fight off the back of pre-fight antics with Wlad... (Which is sad) When of course we all know he should be taking on Top Ranked fighters first.

Trouble is Vit may want the fight because it probably generates more income than any of the others out there and because he genuinely dislikes Haye.

i think vitali would destroy haye, he wouldnt let him run around like wlad did, and haye isnt going to worry vitali who has one of the best ever chins in the buisness. i enjoy watching vitali fight a lot more that wlad because he seems to fight with a little bit of emotion in him.

I hope Vitali is just tormenting him and won't fight him. The fact is Haye does not deserve a fight with either Klitschko now. They should let him stew in his own juices and make him do it the hard way.

If they do, there is no way that Haye has the work ethic and humility to get back to fighting fringe contenders in sports halls and actually EARNING the shot - so he'll just retire hopefully.

Vitali would throw Haye around the ring like a rag doll.

There would be nothing "Cautious Wlad" about the older brother, he would try to annihilate Haye.

I'd pay to watch it. Others probably would too.

Vitali won't fight Haye. It is a bigger insult to just ignore him as irrelevant and, to be fair, to their aspirations, that is exactly what Haye is now. Haye will have to win two or three fights against top ten opposition to be considered as opposition material, and I do not see him doing this

Fact is Haye will still generate the most amount of money for either fighter as he will sell PPVs here, albeit not as many as the Wlad fight did.

They're (KBros) not dim y'know.

I see Haye has slumped in the rankings, boxrec now have him 7th below this lot...

1 Wladimir Klitschko
2 Vitali Klitschko
3 Tomasz Adamek
4 Robert Helenius
5 Eddie Chambers
6 Tony Thompson

coxy0001 wrote:Fact is Haye will still generate the most amount of money for either fighter as he will sell PPVs here, albeit not as many as the Wlad fight did.

They're (KBros) not dim y'know.

I doubt such a fight would generate the necessary interest and will just be seen as the older brother sticking the boot in on a much less capable opponent. Vitali does not want to be seen to be the bad guy or a bully. It's not good for his image. Hence the need for Haye to win against viable opposition prior to any fight being made.

The problem with Haye getting a rematch or fighting Vitali is he wants 50/50 even though he has no title, stunk the gaff out by running like Forrest Gump with a broken toe alledgedly, and has absolutely no bargaining power, wearing severed heads tees and talking like a chav don't count.

Agree with others that I feel Haye never liked the idea of Vitali. Haye power is over matched by Vitali's chin which IMO dissolves Haye's confidence.

I'd like to see Haye fight Solis and the winner fight Vitali.

Haye and Solid fought as amateurs so could possibly hype well, similar size and selling point for the winner to fight Vitali.

Young_Towzer wrote:The problem with Haye getting a rematch or fighting Vitali is he wants 50/50 even though he has no title, stunk the gaff out by running like Forrest Gump with a broken toe alledgedly, and has absolutely no bargaining power, wearing severed heads tees and talking like a chav don't count.

I doubt even Haye would be stupid enough or have an ego big enough to think he's worth a 50/50 split against either of the brothers now. He doesn't deserve a fight with either of them, but I reckon if Wladimir came a'knocking with an offer of a rematch with a twenty-five percent split to Haye, he'd bite his hand off.

As I've said above, though, I'm not sure he really fancies the job against Vitali.

I also read he wanted 50-50 which considering he comes to the table with no belt and one would have to think a seriously reduced PPV pull seems fanciful at best. For me Haye doesn't really deserve a shot at Vitali, if we take out the fact he is British and consider if this was Chambers or Thompson calling for a shot at the other brother we would laugh them out of town, and unfortunate truth though it may be Haye performed little better than either of these or the countless other Wlad victims he has derided.

Am not saying Haye never deserves a shot at Vitali or a rematch with Wlad but do have to say he should get out there and earn it by some means other than behaving like a loutish oaf, actually beating some ranked heavyweights may be a novel way to achieve this.

rowley wrote:I also read he wanted 50-50 which considering he comes to the table with no belt and one would have to think a seriously reduced PPV pull seems fanciful at best. For me Haye doesn't really deserve a shot at Vitali, if we take out the fact he is British and consider if this was Chambers or Thompson calling for a shot at the other brother we would laugh them out of town, and unfortunate truth though it may be Haye performed little better than either of these or the countless other Wlad victims he has derided.

Am not saying Haye never deserves a shot at Vitali or a rematch with Wlad but do have to say he should get out there and earn it by some means other than behaving like a loutish oaf, actually beating some ranked heavyweights may be a novel way to achieve this.

If he went and beat Arreola, Peter, Chambers i'd say right give the guy a shot again. It's nobody's devine right to get straight back in the ring with the top 2 after having his ears boxed off, Arreola never got an immediate rematch and he genuinely tried to spark Vitali, admittedly not the clever thing to do. However, Haye's ego obviously overrating himself again. I have no doubt he won't beat the 3 names mentioned above though, he fights once a year, maybe twice at a huge push, Arreola's had 4 fights in 2011 and he's no Lennox in his physical shape!. Personally though i hope the guy sails off into retirement, he absolutely bores me to tears with all this thug talk and then gets battered and makes up a toe-tally bang out of order and sad excuse. Grab someone with a broken toe, and tell them Haye!

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Day V Lately wrote:I'd love Solis to get into the sort of shape he did as an amateur, a little heavier of course.

On a side note Jim Watt should have been nudged into retirement after that fight!

What he do wrong? He predicted Wlad in a 12 round win over Haye...

I was talking about the Solis v Vit fight.

Agree with those saying Haye needs to fight a contender, ideally it would have been Adamek, but that doesnt look possible, so maybe Thompson or Chambers in america, then set it up with Vitali, who I believe is genuinely up for it

He could fight the winner of Povetkin vs Chagaev and hope to get his old belt back. Then rematch Wlad and try to convince people the first fight didn't happen.

Haye does not deserve another shot. However ...

If they offer a reasonable amount of money, he should take the fight without question - retire if beaten and rematch Wlad in a megabucks fight if he wins.

Vitali is not getting any younger and did not look sharp against Solis (I know: ridiculous thing to say in one respect given how easily he won).

As much as I dislike Haye he's a 15:2 underdog against Vitali rather than 40-1.

Whatever, Haye must try in his next fight otherwise his recent 'performances' will haunt him for the rest of his days.

I said a while back that I thought Haye should have gone for Vitali first.

People keep seeing Wlad as the weaker of the two, but I don't think that has been the case for a while now.

What I think the real issue here is however is if Haye actually deserves another shot at a HW belt.

Feel somewhat hoodwinked by Haye and how he got a shot at Wlad in the first place, a great bit of self promotion on Hayes part.

I, like others would much rather see a Vitali vs Solis rematch.

Regardless of what Haye decides on his future, if the Vitali fight is on a plate, Haye needs a win against a ranked contender before taking it.

From a confidence point of view but also for legitimately marketing the fight.

Vitali aint getting any younger..arguably haye would be better placed to face him in spring 2012 than today.

alma wrote:

fearlessBamber wrote:Haye does not deserve another shot. However ...

If they offer a reasonable amount of money, he should take the fight without question - retire if beaten and rematch Wlad in a megabucks fight if he wins.

Vitali is not getting any younger and did not look sharp against Solis (I know: ridiculous thing to say in one respect given how easily he won).

As much as I dislike Haye he's a 15:2 underdog against Vitali rather than 40-1.

Whatever, Haye must try in his next fight otherwise his recent 'performances' will haunt him for the rest of his days.

I'm not sure they will. He'll probably end up as a Sky summariser and they'll introduce him as a legend every chance they get (rather like Johnny Nelson's 'epic' world title reign is mentioned every time he is on air). The Klitschko farce and the fact he only fought once a year will get glossed over fairly quickly

I dunno, the man has pride. When I think of people like Lennox Lewis and Eubank I think of fighters with absolutely no quit in them. They might have been tactical, but they would never give up and always try to win. Haye just looks like a chancer now. I honestly believe a valiant loss would be better than more of the dross he's served up recently.

Sir. badgerhands wrote:I said a while back that I thought Haye should have gone for Vitali first.

People keep seeing Wlad as the weaker of the two, but I don't think that has been the case for a while now.

What I think the real issue here is however is if Haye actually deserves another shot at a HW belt.

Feel somewhat hoodwinked by Haye and how he got a shot at Wlad in the first place, a great bit of self promotion on Hayes part.

I, like others would much rather see a Vitali vs Solis rematch.

I agree it was a great bit of promotion. Promotion that got people talking about boxing up and down the UK and across the world. People that would otherwise have no interest in the sport. People bang on about boxing has gone to the dogs, it’s dying etc but Haye’s banter got people interested. No bad thing eh?

Fair enough Haye deserve his critics for his performance but after watching the fight again last night (I was in Hamburg but had problems with Sky on my return) I still think Haye has the tools to bang Wlad out. And Vitali for that matter, the guys is nails and a true fighter but he’s 40 years old and fights in straight lines.

Haye needs to fight a contender then go for Vitali, then finish off with a rematch against Wlad.

I slightly dispute this "Haye is great for boxing and gets people interested" argument. There is simply no substitute for talent, ability and effort. Is it really a good thing that Haye talks up fight after fight only for people to say after "Is that it?". Valuev, Harrison, Klitschko - the only thing as consistent as Hayes hype has been how disappointing the fights have been. Most reations after a Haye fight tend to be negative so I cant see why he is lauded as being a saviour or great for boxing.

The division needs real quality, talent and entertaining fights. Not showmen who flatter to decieve by fooling the general public and armchair fans.

After seeing a little of his fight with Wladimir i think it is obvious that he can't dominate the heavyweights...much more success he will get at the cruiserweights.

Colonial Lion wrote:I slightly dispute this "Haye is great for boxing and gets people interested" argument. There is simply no substitute for talent, ability and effort. Is it really a good thing that Haye talks up fight after fight only for people to say after "Is that it?". Valuev, Harrison, Klitschko - the only thing as consistent as Hayes hype has been how disappointing the fights have been. Most reations after a Haye fight tend to be negative so I cant see why he is lauded as being a saviour or great for boxing.

The division needs real quality, talent and entertaining fights. Not showmen who flatter to decieve by fooling the general public and armchair fans.

I certainly wasn't disappointed in the valuev and fraudly fights. Haye did what he had to do.
The sad fact is there is an absence of talent at HW so haye v vitali is a big fight.

Boxing is a business so fights have to be sold and haye does a great job on this and I'm sure Wlad is secretly grateful for his big payday.

I'm not blindly defending haye as the performance against Wlad was poor and haye was a victim of his own hype in the aftermath.

That said with the right tactics and execution I think he beats both kits.

Money aside they is no point in this fight. I have always felt Vitali was the stronger of the 2 and given Hayes tactics for Wlad was to hope to land a big shot on his chin at some point in the fight I hold out little hope for fairing any better against Vitali who unlike his brother has a solid chin. The tactical genius that is Adam Booth got found out and the mouthy blown up cruiserweight got shown to be no better than most of the fat American bums (his words not mine) that the K bros had beat before.

This fight is a non-starter...Haye beats Vitali he's still lost to Vlad so he will always have that against him.......So it means nothing...If Vitali wins ..his brother already beat the overrated Haye etc etc...

It's a nothing fight, doesn't make sense and won't happen!!!!!!

Truss I wouldn't say it won't happen who could Vitali fight that could earn him as much money as Haye?

Apart from the Adamek fight their is no one else.

It's no that...It's not feasible for the money they'd both want..

Haye's performance won't garner him the money he wants..he's not as marketable now..

Why should people pay to watch him run again?????

Haye thinks he's ppv viable.....Vitali wins so what????? Haye has been exposed..

Doesn't make sense economically or in any other way.

It won't make as much as Haye v Wlad that's a given. But with so little competition in the division and Haye having a British box office who Haye can sell a fight to I sadly can see this happening. I would rather see Chris Arreola shed a bit more weight and get a few more victories under his belt and him to have another go next year. He at last had a go when they fought.

prettyboykev wrote:Money aside they is no point in this fight. I have always felt Vitali was the stronger of the 2 and given Hayes tactics for Wlad was to hope to land a big shot on his chin at some point in the fight I hold out little hope for fairing any better against Vitali who unlike his brother has a solid chin. The tactical genius that is Adam Booth got found out and the mouthy blown up cruiserweight got shown to be no better than most of the fat American bums (his words not mine) that the K bros had beat before.

I think he did better than most of the bums to be fair. Haye wasn't busy enough and relied to much on one punch ko power. Sustained pressure n more aggression and Wlad folds for me. Same for vitali he's an old man now. Vitali before firestone retirement is a different story but now haye could do him.

owls101 wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:Money aside they is no point in this fight. I have always felt Vitali was the stronger of the 2 and given Hayes tactics for Wlad was to hope to land a big shot on his chin at some point in the fight I hold out little hope for fairing any better against Vitali who unlike his brother has a solid chin. The tactical genius that is Adam Booth got found out and the mouthy blown up cruiserweight got shown to be no better than most of the fat American bums (his words not mine) that the K bros had beat before.

I think he did better than most of the bums to be fair. Haye wasn't busy enough and relied to much on one punch ko power. Sustained pressure n more aggression and Wlad folds for me. Same for vitali he's an old man now. Vitali before firestone retirement is a different story but now haye could do him.

I agree on the way to beat Wlad is to get at him and pressure him from the first bell to the last. Haye may not have took a beating that some of the so called bums did but he also never went for it in the same way as some of them. Their is no proof that Vitali is past it as he hasn't been pushed since his comeback and after the Haye v Wlad fight I seen very little to suggest Haye is the man to test him.

Problem is Haye isn't an attraction now.....He stunk so badly and still thinks he is a superfighter...

Money will be low and he won't want it..

He'll retire....he's deluded. forget about him.

I hope he doesn't tetire. If he doesn't he has bridges to build but there is away back. Two good wins maybe even one and the lack of talent at HW means he's back in the frame.

You forget people are fickle or stupid but either way, people will come back on Hayes side after a couple of wins.