how has haye become so bad ?

First topic message reminder :

if someone had told me two years ago that people would be saying that chisora and haye were on the same level and boxers like tyson fury would be saying they are better than haye i would have thought they were mad ! , but what has happend to haye its like he has hit rock bottom , surely he has only lost a fight against a world class atg heavy ? was it the manner he lost and drasticly underperformed ? or the fact he has been telling everyone for two years how he would destroy wlad ? Personally i still think hes a great boxer and by far superior to the likes of chisora and fury in terms of ability but i belive peoples opinions have changed so much towards him because of his lack of desire and time between fights.

after looking impresive against mormeck enzo and then stepping up to heavy to face barret his performences and carear have got worse imo, , since the valuev fight in fact and that was nothing special , maybe the celeb status and chat shows have gone to his head but valuev was a year and half ago and WHO has he fought since then ? FRAUDLEY which was all about the celeb status and peoples opinions of him again began to change, than eight long months of talking of all the things he was gonna do to wlad was just setting himself for a big fall , Then the massive dissapointment of the wlad fight where his performence was imo the worst of his carear [ even though the injurey woulent of helped ] . its like he has fallen to the bottem of the ladder ,
I really hope haye decides to carry on and do what he does best , he really needs to take on a top heavy and maybe a chisora [ to shut frank warren up] to get people back on side and to eventually fight a klit .

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:Greatest Cruiserwight ever? You must be joking! Dwight Muhammad Qawi would have smashed him, Holyfield would have out classed him, and Carlos De Leon would have beaten him. Im tempted to even say Haye would have had nightmares with a peak O'Neil Bell, a motivated Johnny Nelson or even a peak Carl Thompson against the Haye that beat Mormeck.

One of the greatest cruiserweights of all time...You are hugely disrespectful

No chance. Ezra Sellers and Guillermo Jones would have also beaten him imo.

The word "delusional" springs to mind...Looks like Dan Rafael has signed up to 606v2.

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

joeyjojo618 wrote:What did valuev do to get three rounds up? I must have missed all the rounds where he threw anything.

Haye didnt do anything. Valuev was the aggressor throughout the fight and pressed the action. You cant give Haye rounds for not doing anything but run and occasionally pot shot. Did you see the Holyfield Valuev scrap, Valuevs fight before Haye?

Haye landed CLEAN punches, Valuev barely landed anything...all good being aggressive but if you dont land you dont win the fight simple as.

I agree completly. But how many clean punches did Haye land per round on average? 2? Valuev landed more than Haye in every round.

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

joeyjojo618 wrote:What did valuev do to get three rounds up? I must have missed all the rounds where he threw anything.

Haye didnt do anything. Valuev was the aggressor throughout the fight and pressed the action. You cant give Haye rounds for not doing anything but run and occasionally pot shot. Did you see the Holyfield Valuev scrap, Valuevs fight before Haye?

Haye landed CLEAN punches, Valuev barely landed anything...all good being aggressive but if you dont land you dont win the fight simple as.

I agree completly. But how many clean punches did Haye land per round on average? 2? Valuev landed more than Haye in every round.

NO HE DIDN'T

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:Greatest Cruiserwight ever? You must be joking! Dwight Muhammad Qawi would have smashed him, Holyfield would have out classed him, and Carlos De Leon would have beaten him. Im tempted to even say Haye would have had nightmares with a peak O'Neil Bell, a motivated Johnny Nelson or even a peak Carl Thompson against the Haye that beat Mormeck.

One of the greatest cruiserweights of all time...You are hugely disrespectful

No chance. Ezra Sellers and Guillermo Jones would have also beaten him imo.

The word "delusional" springs to mind...Looks like Dan Rafael has signed up to 606v2.

'David Haye one of the greatest crusierweights of all time' and i'm delusional? Please justify what you are saying, what performance at crusierweight justifies you saying that?

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

joeyjojo618 wrote:What did valuev do to get three rounds up? I must have missed all the rounds where he threw anything.

Haye didnt do anything. Valuev was the aggressor throughout the fight and pressed the action. You cant give Haye rounds for not doing anything but run and occasionally pot shot. Did you see the Holyfield Valuev scrap, Valuevs fight before Haye?

Haye landed CLEAN punches, Valuev barely landed anything...all good being aggressive but if you dont land you dont win the fight simple as.

I agree completly. But how many clean punches did Haye land per round on average? 2? Valuev landed more than Haye in every round.

NO HE DIDN'T

YES HE DID

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:Not really, everyone on HBO gave the fight to Valuev,

How do you know? They didn't show it.

They done a follow up programme 3 days after the fight. In fact I think I remember reading 13 out of 15 us journo's ringside scored for Valuev.

Greenburg used the strange tactic of refusing to show it live but having his commentary team do the fight 3 days later.

Link for the other? Not saying you're wrong, would like to know who.

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

joeyjojo618 wrote:What did valuev do to get three rounds up? I must have missed all the rounds where he threw anything.

Haye didnt do anything. Valuev was the aggressor throughout the fight and pressed the action. You cant give Haye rounds for not doing anything but run and occasionally pot shot. Did you see the Holyfield Valuev scrap, Valuevs fight before Haye?

Haye landed CLEAN punches, Valuev barely landed anything...all good being aggressive but if you dont land you dont win the fight simple as.

I agree completly. But how many clean punches did Haye land per round on average? 2? Valuev landed more than Haye in every round.

NO HE DIDN'T

YES HE DID

Provide some stats to prove me wrong then

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:Greatest Cruiserwight ever? You must be joking! Dwight Muhammad Qawi would have smashed him, Holyfield would have out classed him, and Carlos De Leon would have beaten him. Im tempted to even say Haye would have had nightmares with a peak O'Neil Bell, a motivated Johnny Nelson or even a peak Carl Thompson against the Haye that beat Mormeck.

One of the greatest cruiserweights of all time...You are hugely disrespectful

No chance. Ezra Sellers and Guillermo Jones would have also beaten him imo.

The word "delusional" springs to mind...Looks like Dan Rafael has signed up to 606v2.

'David Haye one of the greatest crusierweights of all time' and i'm delusional? Please justify what you are saying, what performance at crusierweight justifies you saying that?

His win over Mormeck

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

joeyjojo618 wrote:What did valuev do to get three rounds up? I must have missed all the rounds where he threw anything.

Haye didnt do anything. Valuev was the aggressor throughout the fight and pressed the action. You cant give Haye rounds for not doing anything but run and occasionally pot shot. Did you see the Holyfield Valuev scrap, Valuevs fight before Haye?

Haye landed CLEAN punches, Valuev barely landed anything...all good being aggressive but if you dont land you dont win the fight simple as.

I agree completly. But how many clean punches did Haye land per round on average? 2? Valuev landed more than Haye in every round.

NO HE DIDN'T

YES HE DID

Provide some stats to prove me wrong then

Actually watch the fight. Thats the best 'Stat' I can offer.

To be blunt, being the "greatest cruiserweight of all time" is rivalled by the "greatest downhill skier ever to come from The Sudan" in the 'getting damned with faint praise' stakes. Yes, Haye might be a top five all-time operator in a division that's been going for 30 years. He wouldn't have beaten Holyfield, Qawi or Gomez, but then again, there is no shame in being not as good as someone else.

The problem with Haye has only ever been the gap between what he has said he would do and what he has actually done. He is a fairly cautious fighter with good cruiserweight power and a reasonable all-round technical game. He is, in other words, proficient without being spectacular. He always has been. He hasn't got worse, regressed or forgotten how to box. Britain's best ever cruiserweight and a top 5 all-time British heavy is what he is and it's not bad. Only those who bought Haye's hype can possibly think that he is suddenly "so bad" or that he was ever "so good" in the first place.

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

joeyjojo618 wrote:What did valuev do to get three rounds up? I must have missed all the rounds where he threw anything.

Haye didnt do anything. Valuev was the aggressor throughout the fight and pressed the action. You cant give Haye rounds for not doing anything but run and occasionally pot shot. Did you see the Holyfield Valuev scrap, Valuevs fight before Haye?

Haye landed CLEAN punches, Valuev barely landed anything...all good being aggressive but if you dont land you dont win the fight simple as.

I agree completly. But how many clean punches did Haye land per round on average? 2? Valuev landed more than Haye in every round.

NO HE DIDN'T

YES HE DID

Provide some stats to prove me wrong then

Actually watch the fight. Thats the best 'Stat' I can offer.

Seen it Haye won with CLEANER AND MORE punches landed on Valuev.

captain carrantuohil wrote:To be blunt, being the "greatest cruiserweight of all time" is rivalled by the "greatest downhill skier ever to come from The Sudan" in the 'getting damned with faint praise' stakes. Yes, Haye might be a top five all-time operator in a division that's been going for 30 years. He wouldn't have beaten Holyfield, Qawi or Gomez, but then again, there is no shame in being not as good as someone else.

The problem with Haye has only ever been the gap between what he has said he would do and what he has actually done. He is a fairly cautious fighter with good cruiserweight power and a reasonable all-round technical game. He is, in other words, proficient without being spectacular. He always has been. He hasn't got worse, regressed or forgotten how to box. Britain's best ever cruiserweight and a top 5 all-time British heavy is what he is and it's not bad. Only those who bought Haye's hype can possibly think that he is suddenly "so bad" or that he was ever "so good".

Juan Carlos Gomez the Cuban?

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

joeyjojo618 wrote:What did valuev do to get three rounds up? I must have missed all the rounds where he threw anything.

Haye didnt do anything. Valuev was the aggressor throughout the fight and pressed the action. You cant give Haye rounds for not doing anything but run and occasionally pot shot. Did you see the Holyfield Valuev scrap, Valuevs fight before Haye?

Haye landed CLEAN punches, Valuev barely landed anything...all good being aggressive but if you dont land you dont win the fight simple as.

I agree completly. But how many clean punches did Haye land per round on average? 2? Valuev landed more than Haye in every round.

NO HE DIDN'T

YES HE DID

Provide some stats to prove me wrong then

Actually watch the fight. Thats the best 'Stat' I can offer.

Seen it Haye won with CLEANER AND MORE punches landed on Valuev.

Who did you give Castillo Mayweather 1 to?

I also don't buy this theory into Haye being a "GREAT" crusierweight. Only two world title fights at the weight against a small and old Mormeck and an average (although unfairly derided on this forum) Maccarinelli does not in my opinion make him as a great.

I think Neslon (for longevity), O'Neil Bell, Adamek (who beat Bell) and the originals in Carlos De Leon and obviously Holyfield all rate above him and barring all but one of those fighters mentioned they were not great boxers. So to call Haye a "Great"in any capacity is stretching it.

I tend to think Cunningham might beat Haye at cruiser but Guillermo Jones is tall, has an excellent ramrod jab and deft footwork, good punch output - would give Haye the kind of problems that Wlad did.

Yeah can't make out Haye as a great cruiserweight at all.

Super D Boon wrote:I also don't buy this theory into Haye being a "GREAT" crusierweight. Only two world title fights at the weight against a small and old Mormeck and an average (although unfairly derided on this forum) Maccarinelli does not in my opinion make him as a great.

I think Neslon (for longevity), O'Neil Bell, Adamek (who beat Bell) and the originals in Carlos De Leon and obviously Holyfield all rate above him and barring all but one of those fighters mentioned they were not great boxers. So to call Haye a "Great"in any capacity is stretching it.

I tend to think Cunningham might beat Haye at cruiser but Guillermo Jones is tall, has an excellent ramrod jab and deft footwork, good punch output - would give Haye the kind of problems that Wlad did.

Yeah can't make out Haye as a great cruiserweight at all.

Agree wholeheartedly with everything you said

The genius of PBF wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:I scored it by at least 3 rounds to Valuev, who has been described as the worst heavyweight to ever hold a version of a world title.

Not sure which, but you need one of these:

http://www.specsavers.co.uk/
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/scoring.htm

He supports Tottenham go easy on him

so do i but i dont come out with garbage like him !!!!!

rycoys wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:I scored it by at least 3 rounds to Valuev, who has been described as the worst heavyweight to ever hold a version of a world title.

Not sure which, but you need one of these:

http://www.specsavers.co.uk/
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/scoring.htm

He supports Tottenham go easy on him

so do i but i dont come out with garbage like him !!!!!

First of all are you American? Garbage?
Secondly, like what? The majority of people believe Valuev beat Haye.

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:

rycoys wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GaryMabbuttYidLegend wrote:I scored it by at least 3 rounds to Valuev, who has been described as the worst heavyweight to ever hold a version of a world title.

Not sure which, but you need one of these:

http://www.specsavers.co.uk/
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/scoring.htm

He supports Tottenham go easy on him

so do i but i dont come out with garbage like him !!!!!

First of all are you American? Garbage?
Secondly, like what? The majority of people believe Valuev beat Haye.

sorry if it hurt your feelings , you are talking RUBBISH ! i dont know who you have been talking to but if you truely belive valuev beat haye or most people think he did you are seriously misguided on boxing ,

I dont believe Haye is a great fighter.He was momentarily the best in an awful division thats historically always been awful. His win column be it cruiser or heavy is the pits of mediocrity. He shouldnt be mentioned as a great in any shape or form.

Super D Boon wrote:
I think Neslon (for longevity), O'Neil Bell, Adamek (who beat Bell)...

Haye rates above Nelson and Adamek for me, but saying that... Adamek would be a good fight for Haye now. It would sell, and both fighters would be competitive.

Haye rates above Nelson and Adamek for me, but saying that... Adamek would be a good fight for Haye now. It would sell, and both fighters would be competitive.

-----------

Each to their own I guess. However not sure if I agree that a fight with Adamek would sell (or sell that well). The pole has a good fan base in Poland and America but the casual British fan has probably never heard of him. I think David Haye has even said as much.