Torchwood - Miracle Day

by Adam D Thu 14 Jul 2011, 10:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

Anyone watch it?

Thoroughly enjoyed it, even if some of it did seem incredibly cheesy.

How did the guy get from his hospital bed in Washington to a beach in wales without hanging up his call.

And the scene on the beach with the copter just reaked of "we have a bigger budget - lets put in some explosions!"

But all in all very good - and Bill Pullman is one creepy dude....

by Irish Curry Fri 26 Aug 2011, 12:09 pm

Good but not great its run out of steam now they have dragged it on too much really for me. How many episodes are left now?

Looks like they are finally putting the story together though finally Rolling Eyes

by hodge Fri 26 Aug 2011, 1:06 pm

3 left i believe, i'm now only watching to see what the outcome is otherwise ive lost interest

by Irish Curry Fri 26 Aug 2011, 2:55 pm

A five parter would have been much better really I believe that is what Children of Earth was? They shot them selves in the foot with the length though.

by Adam D Fri 02 Sep 2011, 9:05 am

Another week, another dragged out story.

I am pulling my hair out at this series - it could have been so, so good but has been let down by a crippling pace - I would have rathered two 5 episode mini series than this. Anyway, the good points about it as a whole:

1. Bill Pullman steals every scene he is in and should have been a bigger focal point than he has been (this was his first appearance in 3 episodes). His story has been fantastic. I cant help but think he is going to be the saviour of the world somehow and get redemption. This weeks scenes with the prostitute were very good indeed.

2. As I said last week, the whole Angelo backstory could have been done in 10 minutes. Same with this episode. What have we learnt in 120 minutes of TV over the last 2 weeks? Jack had a lover in the 20's. Lover spied on Jack until now. 3 men are behind everything after stealing Jacks blood. And a giant sim card can create fields for various things depending on the scriptwriters whim.

3. The idea of the concentration camps was interesting but once again didnt really need 3 episodes to explain. The most injured get taken away for burning. This could of been interesting if the story had focused on the moral issue of this more (like they did with Children of Earth and the discussion about using league tables to choose)

4. The Souless/ floor 54ers. People who want to kill themselves - another great idea that has been skimmed over due to focusing on the wrong things.

5. Swansea - I love the Swansea scenes as they bring a Britishness to it. But they would have been better served to spend a whole episode there as opposed to flicking between - its almost like the actors from the Swansea set were filming another series and it was put in later.

6. Phicorp - remember them? Seems to have been forgotten about!

7. Wayne Knight - why did Newman get such a poorly written role? He is great. Same goes for Ernie Hudsons role - that was a pointless discussion. Or was it? Maybe in Tokyo lies the other giant sim card.

8.Gwen - why does her character keep changing every 2 seconds. One moment she is cold and calculating, the next she is acting like a thug who has been on the Brains SA all day.

Anyway, 2 more episodes to go and it looks like net week is filler too. Leaving one week for the resolvement.

Please dont leave me with a bad taste in my mouth.

by dyrewolfe Fri 02 Sep 2011, 3:36 pm

Very good analysis Hobo.

At times its like they're trying to fit too much in and overlooking some potentially good elements, while dwelling far too long on things that have either been dragged out too long already, or just aren't that interesting.

Also agree that they flit between locations too much, so you don't really have time to absorb the different settings.

Oswald Danes - interesting to see what his Category Zero status will result in.

Agree that Wayne Knight's character could have been better scripted. For me, the revelation about the 3 families came too late and didn't give time for the kind of dread to build up, where you'd expect someone to blow themselves up, rather than face the authorities.

Quite enjoyed John De Lancie's character, but he was so much like Q, it was almost like watching Star Trek.

Agree that Gwen is getting a bit too schizophrenic. Then again, she is meant to be torn between concern for her family, the rest of the Torchwood gang and the whole Miracle Day thing. Trouble is she does seem out of character a lot. Also, why was she just chucked out like that and sent back to Wales?

Jack Harkness is frankly getting annoying and tedious. In previous series, he was a lot more dynamic and action-oriented. He usually had an answer for most problems and was always ready with a wisecrack. He was the leader all the other characters looked to. Here, he's too passive and brooding. I can accept him being clueless - I just wish he was a bit more active.

Hobo wrote:
2. As I said last week, the whole Angelo backstory could have been done in 10 minutes. Same with this episode. What have we learnt in 120 minutes of TV over the last 2 weeks? Jack had a lover in the 20's. Lover spied on Jack until now. 3 men are behind everything after stealing Jacks blood. And a giant sim card can create fields for various things depending on the scriptwriters whim.

Now you mention it, thats exactly what they look like. I too wondered about that. First they were meant to create a "morphic field" that caused people to become immortal, next they generate a null field that means people outside it can't hear you talking. Interesting.

Would also have liked more mention of the Soulless, but with whatsername's sister being one of them and saying she was going to volunteer herself and her kids as Category 1s, maybe there's more to come.

I think the other site is actually in Shanghai - thats where that "family" man said Jillian Kitzinger was headed, following her "promotion".

To be honest I'm getting so confused, I've given up trying to follow this one. I just watch to see what happens, then come on here and complain that it doesn't make any sense! Erm

by Guest Fri 02 Sep 2011, 4:26 pm

After god knows how many episodes I'm actually bored with Torchwood. This weeks was an improvement on the week before, but I still found it so slow. Another 5 parter would have been brilliant because the pace would be high and not dragged out.

When Wayne Knight (Knew I recognised him from somewhere- Space Jam) looked as if he was about to kill Rex I actually wasn't bothered about either character. If Knight and Pullman had bigger roles in this I think they both could have played the huge villain. I'm just glad the moral category (Category 0) has finally been introduced. It's one thing that has bugged me since the start that people who commit crimes seem to be being ignored.

For spending ages leading up to Phicorp they have given up on trying to figure out why they were behind it. Attention now shifting to the three families, who I hope have a lose connection to Danes because one surname has 'Dane' in it. It would be brilliant if he had been raised as some kind of monster that would initiate the miracle.

I think we all called that Shanghai had more to do with this when Jack met the black guy (Whose name I can't remember) and mentioned GEOGRAPHY after his agent had been working abroad!

If Torchwood survives this series I hope we see them go back to either a 5 parter with one main storyline, or a 10 episode run with individual stories or two parters, but with an arc connecting everything.

by Irish Curry Fri 02 Sep 2011, 6:04 pm

Worst episoide yet by a long shot the series started so well and now its plain boring. Hopefully the last few episoides will be as good as the first ones Rolling Eyes

by Guest Fri 02 Sep 2011, 11:06 pm

I actually really enjoyed this episode!

Anyone remember the surname of the CIA agent who is apparently working for the "families". I know Esther used her ID card to escape in the first episode but can't remember it now.

I agree that a lot of the storylines have been dragged out, and I wish that there was more of Oswald Danes in it, but when you consider they are introducing it to a new audience, then I think it makes sense.

Room for improvement, but not dreadful by any means.

by Irish Curry Sat 03 Sep 2011, 2:50 pm

It wasn't dreadful it just wasn't that great. I suppose we have just been spoiled with the quility of the other episode.

by hodge Sat 03 Sep 2011, 3:09 pm

rugbydreamer wrote:Anyone remember the surname of the CIA agent who is apparently working for the "families". I know Esther used her ID card to escape in the first episode but can't remember it now.

Wills

by Guest Sat 03 Sep 2011, 3:34 pm

cheers Hodge

by Shifty Sun 04 Sep 2011, 10:32 pm

I enjoyed Children of Earth season 3, but I think their trying to combine too many story arcs in this new series and it's starting to get confusing for me now.

I also didn't like the gay sex scenes, Iv'e loved doctor who since I was a baby and like Torchwood also, but ramming homosexuality down our throats every 2 minutes isn't needed, it's not as if gays are thrown into the Coliseum for the Lions to eat!
Doctor Who and Torchwood is far too sexualised for me to be cormfotable enough to let my children watch it.

by robbo277 Sun 04 Sep 2011, 11:36 pm

This series has been a little slower than what some might be used to, but I think it is more like an American drama in that respect (think of something like Lost). I don't think that's particularly better or worse, it just depends on your taste.

I've enjoyed watching Torchwood up to this point. I haven't obsessed about it or anything, but I've watched all the episodes and found the concept interesting and some of the dilemmas raised have been very intriguing, it makes me think what would happen if the Miracle was real? I don't think it has dragged on too long at all, it could have been even longer and really focussed on some more of the characters.

Just watched episode 9 online (it's out in America - PM me for a link) and it was really good in my opinion, really raised the bar ahead of the finale.

by dyrewolfe Mon 05 Sep 2011, 1:35 pm

AlynDavies wrote:I enjoyed Children of Earth season 3, but I think their trying to combine too many story arcs in this new series and it's starting to get confusing for me now.

I also didn't like the gay sex scenes, Iv'e loved doctor who since I was a baby and like Torchwood also, but ramming homosexuality down our throats every 2 minutes isn't needed, it's not as if gays are thrown into the Coliseum for the Lions to eat!
Doctor Who and Torchwood is far too sexualised for me to be cormfotable enough to let my children watch it.

How on earth is Dr Who "sexualised"?

The most you ever get with that is the odd snog between the Doctor and River or Amy and Rory.

Torchwood is and has always been more adult oriented, from the first series. More violence, bad language and more explicit sexual behaviour. Not really the sort of thing young children should be watching.

by Adam D Mon 05 Sep 2011, 1:40 pm

As a matter of interest, has there ever been any female nudity along the lines of the explicity of the Jack scenes this series?

by dyrewolfe Mon 05 Sep 2011, 1:58 pm

robbo277 wrote:This series has been a little slower than what some might be used to, but I think it is more like an American drama in that respect (think of something like Lost). I don't think that's particularly better or worse, it just depends on your taste.

I've enjoyed watching Torchwood up to this point. I haven't obsessed about it or anything, but I've watched all the episodes and found the concept interesting and some of the dilemmas raised have been very intriguing, it makes me think what would happen if the Miracle was real? I don't think it has dragged on too long at all, it could have been even longer and really focussed on some more of the characters.

Just watched episode 9 online (it's out in America - PM me for a link) and it was really good in my opinion, really raised the bar ahead of the finale.

I think the problem a lot of people have with the Miracle Day story is that it feels like the writers have been overambitious and ended up over-reaching themselves.

In the earlier series, Torchwood was a small covert ops team, working out of a secret base, chasing down aliens or humans who had acquired alien technology. The smaller cast meant each of the characters got a good amount of screen time to establish themselves and you got to care about all of them, to some degree. The stories were a lot less complex and while the twists and turns were still there, you were at least able to follow what was going on and which events and people were significant.

With Miracle Day, Torchwood exists more as an idea now (there being only 2 surviving members of the original team) with only 2 characters you feel any real connection with or empathy for...and even they're behaving quite differently from how they did before. They're operating out in the open now, more as assistants to the US federal services (a big part of the appeal for me was their covert, secretive nature and the fact they operated above and beyond normal law enforcement). There are so many characters with their own mini-stories going on, thats its hard to really care about, or be interested in, any of them, with the notable exceptions of Oswald Danes and Rex Harrison. Either that, or just as you're starting to care about them, they get killed (burned alive or blown up).

There are also too many things going on: Phicorp, the concentration camps, the Soulless, the "families", the morphic/null field generators, Jack Harkness' connection to the Miracle Day event.

Knowing how Russell Davies wrote for Dr Who, its quite possible a lot of this will be resolved in the remaining episodes, but its frustrating watching episode after episode, wondering exactly who or what is central to solving the mystery.

by Adam D Mon 05 Sep 2011, 2:03 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Knowing how Russell Davies wrote for Dr Who, its quite possible a lot of this will be resolved.....

by hitting a huge reset button and having Bobby Ewing come out of the shower.

by Shifty Mon 05 Sep 2011, 4:21 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:How on earth is Dr Who "sexualised"?

Well if you go back to what I grew up with, it is very different now, there was never any kissing or anything sexual apart from maybe Peri's boobs, Zoe's legs, and Leela's dress. I don;t think it's worth including the peeks up Jamies kilt to be honest!

Doctor Who is far more sexualised than it used to be, Russel Davies always enjoys ramming gay elements down people throats regardless of the target audience.

by Adam D Mon 05 Sep 2011, 4:54 pm

AlynDavies wrote:Russel Davies always enjoys ramming gay elements down people throats

Spoiler:

by robbo277 Mon 05 Sep 2011, 9:26 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
robbo277 wrote:This series has been a little slower than what some might be used to, but I think it is more like an American drama in that respect (think of something like Lost). I don't think that's particularly better or worse, it just depends on your taste.

I've enjoyed watching Torchwood up to this point. I haven't obsessed about it or anything, but I've watched all the episodes and found the concept interesting and some of the dilemmas raised have been very intriguing, it makes me think what would happen if the Miracle was real? I don't think it has dragged on too long at all, it could have been even longer and really focussed on some more of the characters.

Just watched episode 9 online (it's out in America - PM me for a link) and it was really good in my opinion, really raised the bar ahead of the finale.

I think the problem a lot of people have with the Miracle Day story is that it feels like the writers have been overambitious and ended up over-reaching themselves.

In the earlier series, Torchwood was a small covert ops team, working out of a secret base, chasing down aliens or humans who had acquired alien technology. The smaller cast meant each of the characters got a good amount of screen time to establish themselves and you got to care about all of them, to some degree. The stories were a lot less complex and while the twists and turns were still there, you were at least able to follow what was going on and which events and people were significant.

With Miracle Day, Torchwood exists more as an idea now (there being only 2 surviving members of the original team) with only 2 characters you feel any real connection with or empathy for...and even they're behaving quite differently from how they did before. They're operating out in the open now, more as assistants to the US federal services (a big part of the appeal for me was their covert, secretive nature and the fact they operated above and beyond normal law enforcement). There are so many characters with their own mini-stories going on, thats its hard to really care about, or be interested in, any of them, with the notable exceptions of Oswald Danes and Rex Harrison. Either that, or just as you're starting to care about them, they get killed (burned alive or blown up).

There are also too many things going on: Phicorp, the concentration camps, the Soulless, the "families", the morphic/null field generators, Jack Harkness' connection to the Miracle Day event.

Knowing how Russell Davies wrote for Dr Who, its quite possible a lot of this will be resolved in the remaining episodes, but its frustrating watching episode after episode, wondering exactly who or what is central to solving the mystery.

I was addressing points about Torchwood being drawn out too long. I would actually agree that the show could have been stretched out slightly longer and had more emphasis on the new characters, while exploring some of the things mentioned. However, that would have been very different from the original Torchwood. I don't think this compromise is the best (10 episodes as opposed to 5 or 15), but I don't think it is explicitly too long.

As a massive Lost fan, I'm used to having questions left lingering in the air from week to week, sometimes not resolved for months or even years! 10 weeks is nothing to me! But I can understand it can get frustrating.

I've enjoyed Torchwood, but I would have probably preferred it to be drawn out even longer and have some sub-plots that do get resolved, maybe a mid-season reveal and then build towards the final end game (what is the Miracle). Depending on what the miracle actually is, they could have (in a drawn out series) discovered it in something like week 12 and set about trying to stop it (which they would have achieved on the season finale at say week 15. But it has been enjoyable, and I'm hoping it is all tied together neatly with not too many loose-ends. Obviously there will be some red herrings and misdirection, but I'll reserve full judgement until the end of the series. But so far the first 9 episodes have done there job: they've kept me watching. Now hopefully there's a big pay-off at the end of it!

by dyrewolfe Fri 09 Sep 2011, 4:13 pm

Well, well, well.

So the Blessing is some kind of strange vortex that exists in a giant fissure that runs right through the centre of the Earth, from Buenos Aires to Shanghai (conveniently forgetting the Earth has a molten core about the size of the Moon and a very hot semi-liquid mantle around that).

Given that Jilly Kitzinger didn't immediately try and take her own life when confronted with it, I'm guessing she still has an important role to play.

Given the Phicorp logo is meant to represent the Blessing, presumably it was set up by one or more of the Families, intended as their insurance policy when Miracle Day was unleashed.

Oh and the Families themselves - a very convoluted any mysterious past, which leads up to the Great Depression of the 1930s then disappears without trace...the only remaining clues being a murder weapon currently in the CIA's possession and a comic book.

The CIA has a mole, but fortunately Rex has cottoned on.

Gwen's dad finally got caught by the cops and is presumably on his way to an incinerator.

Glad to see both Gwen and Jack acting more like their old selves, bringing a bit of the old Torchwood atmosphere back.

And Jack himself...the closer he gets to the Blessing, the weaker he gets. Not to mention when he bleeds on the floor of their hotel hideout, its steered by some mysterious force towards the Blessing.

Only 1 more episode to go, so they've got their work cut out, tying up all the loose ends. Should be good.

by dyrewolfe Fri 09 Sep 2011, 4:17 pm

@robbo277:

Thats more or less what I was getting at. I think the writers couldn't work out whether they wanted Miracle Day to be an extended "normal" story or a full-fledged series and in the end they kind of fudged it into a 10-parter, which is really neither here nor there.

As you suggested they could have streamlined the story, had fewer characters and made it a 5-6 parter, or they could have developed some of the side-stories more and made it into a full-blown series.

by Adam D Sun 11 Sep 2011, 3:31 pm

I thought the 9th episode was the best one of the lot so far.

Oswald Danes is a fantastic character and I really liked the way that society has crumbled to the point where Gwen is illegally trafficking medicine.

The one thing that did make me laugh though was the fact that Russel T Davies, who lets not forget is homosexual, has made the big bad guy to be a huge, life sucking vagina!

Really looking forward to the last episode now. I feel this episode has redeemed the series somewhat.

by robbo277 Sun 11 Sep 2011, 5:09 pm

If anyone wants a link to the series finale send me a private message and I can send you one. It's already out in America and is available online.

by dyrewolfe Mon 12 Sep 2011, 4:30 pm

Adam D (Hobo) wrote:The one thing that did make me laugh though was the fact that Russel T Davies, who lets not forget is homosexual, has made the big bad guy to be a huge, life sucking vagina!

Say what now? Erm

Are you sure you weren't watching Television X or one of the other adult channels by mistake?

by Guest Thu 15 Sep 2011, 10:16 pm

blydi amazing last episode. Loved it.

by Adam D Thu 15 Sep 2011, 10:26 pm

agree.

Bloody amazing last 2 episodes.

It flagged in the middle (of the series) but really excelled by the end.

I hope that the surviving characters get another series but would prefer the doctor who model next time - over arcing story but with individual episodes that stand alone.

Was surprised by who survived and who didnt!

by Guest Thu 15 Sep 2011, 10:33 pm

I know same here, but that's Torchwood for you, you never know what they're going to do.

Not sure if the characters are strong enough for a Dr Who model, depends how well it's written I guess. Really hope another series comes of this, although I guess it has to with the way they ended it Smile

by hodge Fri 16 Sep 2011, 12:04 am

wow, simply wow 'THAT WAS TOTALLY WICKED' to quote the incredibles Laugh

Has to be a new series after that however Rex now interests me the most, will be great to see his character development

by Guest Fri 16 Sep 2011, 8:29 am

Thought the last two episodes made up for a horrific start to the series. I don't want to spoil it for anyone, but I'm surprised at who's funeral it was and what happened to Rex!

But Jack only became immortal after what happened with Rose, if it was only a matter of transfusing his blood would others not just ask for some of his blood?

Oswald stayed creepy until the very end, and was my favourite new character. Thought it was interesting how Gwen talked about Oswald deciding who lives and dies, but then did this herself.

by Irish Curry Fri 16 Sep 2011, 9:03 pm

Great episode its a real pitty its over though Sad

Spoiler:

by dyrewolfe Mon 19 Sep 2011, 4:52 pm

Churchill wrote:But Jack only became immortal after what happened with Rose, if it was only a matter of transfusing his blood would others not just ask for some of his blood?

Was that after she got hooked up to the Tardis' power supply? I thought Harkness had always been immortal...

Rex got his transfusion in case his team got discovered and the case of blood was captured or destroyed (as happened). I guess he didn't think about it making him immortal once the Blessing was switched back. They didn't even realise the blood had to be given at both ends simultaneously.

Overall, despite the good ending, I'm actually glad its over. I'm hoping Russell Davies and co look back over the episodes and realise they tried to do too much in too little time.

If there is another series, I'd like it to return to the original format, recruit some new British Torchwood agents. Rex could leave the CIA and form his own Torchwood branch (they are supposed to be all over the world, after all). They could alternate episodes between branches, or they could have some co-operative episodes. Lots of scope I feel.

Given that they left the Families at least partially intact and hell-bent on continuing their work, makes me wonder if they set them up as a kind of ongoing nemesis.

by dyrewolfe Mon 19 Sep 2011, 4:55 pm

Also glad that Jillian Kitzinger survived. Yes she was annoying, but she was also sexy as hell (I have a thing for redheads Run

).

by Adam D Mon 19 Sep 2011, 5:07 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:Also glad that Jillian Kitzinger survived. Yes she was annoying, but she was also sexy as hell (I have a thing for redheads ).

Amen to that!

Spoiler:

by Shifty Mon 19 Sep 2011, 7:09 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:If there is another series, I'd like it to return to the original format, recruit some new British Torchwood agents. Rex could leave the CIA and form his own Torchwood branch (they are supposed to be all over the world, after all). They could alternate episodes between branches, or they could have some co-operative episodes. Lots of scope I feel.

Excellent ideas, I like it thumbsup

I prefer the somewhat stand alone episodes though with possibly a recurring theme that leads to something later on like in doctor Who.

by **Kenny** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 10:27 pm

Finally got the last 2 episodes watched and i have to say i really enjoyed it although i do miss the aliens . Like dyrewolfes ideas that could work .

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