Gallagher Premiership 2020/21

by formerly known as Sam Fri 05 Mar 2021, 9:46 pm

That's not a high tackle. Heyes initial contact is the chest. If you're going to review it, review it properly. It's a legal tackle.

How did the assistant miss that the LI player knocks the ball out of JVP's hands and into touch before the Joseph break. It was right in front of him FFS. Lineout Tigers.

Anyway, Tigers blow what should have been a straightforward win and only get 4 instead of 5 points. LI manage to snatch 2 league points with a TBP at the death. Probably a fair result as LI were the better side in the first half but didn't really show up in the second. Hassell-Collins is looking like a really classy player, shame Parton went off.

by Heaf Fri 05 Mar 2021, 9:48 pm

Missed most of the match but sounds like Irish threw it away too a bit ... a bit of a miracle that they were a missed conversion away from winning it given the YC, RC, disallowed tries etc ... annoying that the officials weren't so hot on spotting the obstruction for Tigers' first try.

by Geordie Fri 05 Mar 2021, 9:50 pm

Their pack is another level to us.

I think only Fuser from our pack would make theirs...

by doctor_grey Fri 05 Mar 2021, 10:02 pm

Nice interview with Lood de Jager at the end of Sale-Newcastle. Seems a very likeable and humble guy. And clearly is a terrific player.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 05 Mar 2021, 10:05 pm

king_carlos wrote:That's a clear red for Hepetema. Tucked arm and contact with the head.

Other than the unnecessary blocking penalty that cost LI a try and now this Hepetema had been playing well too. Two moments of terrible discipline hurting his team badly though.

That sums him up perfectly. Has had some cracking games for us, then spoils it with moments of madness.

by Margin_Walker Fri 05 Mar 2021, 10:08 pm

Yep, was a really bad one from Heps. No need and will cop a solid ban

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 05 Mar 2021, 10:42 pm

Difficult as an Irish fan to know how to feel after that. Great effort at the end to come away with two points, but felt like we spent about 50 minutes up until that point repeatedly cutting our own throats. Tigers had a game plan and stuck to it, and we got sucked into playing how they wanted to rather than playing our own game, and as result kept on coming off second best. Losing Parton was a big blow, he's been excellent for us this year.

by Heaf Fri 05 Mar 2021, 10:46 pm

The positive thing is we've rescued 5 points from two matches where we looked well and truly down and out. The biggest issue is we're botching so many chances in matches where we should be coming away with 5 points. Still a big improvement from where we've been lately but much more work to be done.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 05 Mar 2021, 10:55 pm

Yeah, I think on reflection, if you'd have offered us 6th place after round 12, just 3 points short of last years points total we'd have taken it wouldn't we. There have been glimpses of what we are capable of, but we're yet to string together a full 80 minute performance this season, and we've often been marginally off in the things we are trying to do. That's all fixable, with time, coaching and a few personnel tweaks.

by formerly known as Sam Sat 06 Mar 2021, 8:30 am

As a Tigers fan disappointed we let LI off the hook at the end. Should have been clinical and put them to the sword and taken the TBP. Still some work to be done.

On the upside the kids are alright.

Steward - rock at the back again, when carrying beat the first man. Kicked into trouble once though but thankfully that try was chalked off because of the LI 12 who was awful. Needs to use that massive boot to go high and not follow the general Tigers tactic of kick long. Made a couple of important one on one tackles from LI breaks.

Chessum - changed the game when he came on in the second half. Tigers lineout had been under pressure in the first half but he took ball under pressure and took it well. Gave Tigers the platform to apply a lot of pressure. Drove over for the try nicely and threw himself into a lot of tackles with textbook technique.

JVP - saw the best and worst from him. Kid has all the skills and potential to go and be an international for a long time. Showed he was still learning though with the charge down and the failed interception yellow card. At 19 more experience will help fox those problems.

Heyes - Cole's protégé dismantled both LI looseheads after coming on. Cole had started wearing down the starting one and Heyes freshness completed the job before he continued on Dell. His yellow card was at best soft and at worse a poor decision from the officials. He got round the park well. At 21 Eddie seems to have him down as 4th choice tighthead and if he keeps developing he'll only go up the pecking order.

Reffell - made a couple of turnovers and would have doubled that if it weren't for fellow forwards not rolling away quick enough. Linked well off the lineout for a couple of breaks as well. Growing into the all action role. Hopefully no one from Wales is taking any notice but as he captained Wales under 20s they won't forget about him for too long. Time to put a nice long or rolling contact in front of him.

Real shame to see Parton go off early, was enjoying the battle of the two young 15s showing Eddie what a specialist 15 could offer. For LI Joseph the younger looks like he'll be quite a player though.

by king_carlos Sat 06 Mar 2021, 10:33 am

Agree with all that Sam.

JvP and Steward have impressed me almost every time they've played. Rock solid basics with a bit of flair as well.

Heyes seems to be steadily adding consistency to his game. He's always been talented but is improving very steadily now.

Chessum has coupled together two very strong performances in the last two games. He seems to have overtaken Henderson who has also been impressive it must be said. What I particularly like about those two doing well is that they were in the academy, then out of it but the club kept looking at their progression and re-signed them. Good recruitment.

Reffell is simply a fantastic player. It would be a gut shot if Tigers lose him to a region. Harry Thacker and Will Evans leaving hurt, Sam Costelow was frustrating but I think losing Reffell would top the lot.

by doctor_grey Sat 06 Mar 2021, 11:30 am

I couldn't watch the game closely: I was on a video call at the same time yesterday afternoon about new Covid diagnosis, treatment, and vaccine roll-out strategies, which was actually interesting and helpful, and I needed to pay attention. But I thought London Irish were going to run away with it in the first 20 minutes. But Tigers really seemed to get into it. Henry is really improving and seems to be playing with some real confidence. The scrum half, van Poortvliet, still played a bit like a kid, lots of potential, but a long way to go. I wouldn't worry about the yellow at the end, but it is good to see a young player like him get meaningful game time which is the only way he will improve.

For LI, I thought Hassell-Collins was quite good, another young player given quality time and really making show of it. But their centre, Hepetema, played well at times, but ultimately really didn't seem to care either about his obstruction on what could have been a try for LI nor for his red.

by Duty281 Sat 06 Mar 2021, 3:00 pm

Bath/Exeter should be a good game...but can they get through it without a red card happening?

by Heaf Sat 06 Mar 2021, 3:15 pm

Officials are already showing inconsistencies - clear forward pass in the build-up to the Bath try called OK in real-time, then a marginal pass by Chiefs called forwards.

by king_carlos Sat 06 Mar 2021, 3:23 pm

I was critical of JJ for a time as I thought his form dropped (understandably) after injury. He was back near his best in the ANC though and it was a surprise to see him dropped for the Six Nations.

I still think he's a better international centre than Slade.

by Heaf Sat 06 Mar 2021, 3:28 pm

Interesting interpretation of advantage - 20 yards back from where the knock-on happened and the ref says advantage is over - I guess Chiefs should have asked for the scrum.

by mikey_dragon Sat 06 Mar 2021, 3:34 pm

Red for Ollie Thorley.

by mikey_dragon Sat 06 Mar 2021, 3:38 pm

Yellow for Fekitoa handbags now, bit harsh.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 06 Mar 2021, 4:00 pm

What was the red for, watching Bath. Twitter suggesting it was a bit of a bad decision but that's from Gloucester fans!

by formerly known as Sam Sat 06 Mar 2021, 4:04 pm

king_carlos wrote:Agree with all that Sam.

JvP and Steward have impressed me almost every time they've played. Rock solid basics with a bit of flair as well.

Heyes seems to be steadily adding consistency to his game. He's always been talented but is improving very steadily now.

Chessum has coupled together two very strong performances in the last two games. He seems to have overtaken Henderson who has also been impressive it must be said. What I particularly like about those two doing well is that they were in the academy, then out of it but the club kept looking at their progression and re-signed them. Good recruitment.

Reffell is simply a fantastic player. It would be a gut shot if Tigers lose him to a region. Harry Thacker and Will Evans leaving hurt, Sam Costelow was frustrating but I think losing Reffell would top the lot.

Thacker and Evans were victims of the regimes at the time and a lack of practical thinking. Reffell fits exactly how we play at the minute. To see him go would be the most gutting of the three. He's come through the system and ingrained in the team. Let's hope he's got a rolling contract and can stay perpetually even if he gets capped by Wales.

Costelow is frustrating. To see that talent wasted as the Scarlets play mediocrity in front of him for most of the season. If he'd been at Tigers he'd have played twice as many minutes by now.

by Heaf Sat 06 Mar 2021, 4:05 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:What was the red for, watching Bath. Twitter suggesting it was a bit of a bad decision but that's from Gloucester fans!

Head clash from being too upright ...

by Duty281 Sat 06 Mar 2021, 4:58 pm

Bath completely ran out of energy in the second half. Easy win for Exeter in the end.

And, not Premiership news admittedly, the Cornish Pirates have beaten Saracens in the first game of the Championship season, 25-17.

by formerly known as Sam Sat 06 Mar 2021, 5:04 pm

Heaf wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:What was the red for, watching Bath. Twitter suggesting it was a bit of a bad decision but that's from Gloucester fans!

Head clash from being too upright ...

I've only seen the one run through of it but it looked a little harsh. Wasps player coming down from collecting a kick and Thorley tries to wrap him up and its head on head. Thorley was trying to make a legitimate tackle. It goes back to the height thing though doesn't it. If you don't make an attempt to lower your height you can be in trouble. I'd still expect Thorley to get a ban in the very lowest end of the scale.

by king_carlos Sat 06 Mar 2021, 5:08 pm

Duty281 wrote:And, not Premiership news admittedly, the Cornish Pirates have beaten Saracens in the first game of the Championship season, 25-17.

15 Elliott Obatoyinbo
14 Alex Lewington
13 Duncan Taylor
12 Juan Pablo Socino
11 Sean Maitland
10 Manu Vunipola
9 Aled Davies
1 Richard Barrington
2 Kapeli Pifeleti
3 Vincent Koch
4 Callum Hunter-Hill
5 Tim Swinson
6 Mike Rhodes
7 Sean Reffell
8 Jackson Wray

Replacements
16 Sam Crean
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Alec Clarey
19 Joel Kpoku
20 Andy Christie
21 Tom Whiteley
22 Dom Morris
23 Rotimi Segun

Astounding given the side that Sarries fielded.

I'm delighted for Pirates and I don't mean that in terms of sticking the boot in Sarries with the salary cap stuff. Pirates have built a really commendable setup and are the sort of ambitious club massively shafted by the RFU funding cuts.

With no return fixtures in a shortened 10 game season and only the top 2 being playoff places a couple of losses wouldn't be insignificant.

by doctor_grey Sat 06 Mar 2021, 5:10 pm

Duty281 wrote:Bath completely ran out of energy in the second half. Easy win for Exeter in the end.

And, not Premiership news admittedly, the Cornish Pirates have beaten Saracens in the first game of the Championship season, 25-17.

Well, well, well. Makes the whole Championship season more and more interesting. A few more results like this and the Championship will be headlining the sport news!

by king_carlos Sat 06 Mar 2021, 5:14 pm

One further point on Pirates vs Sarries that's pertinent to this thread.

Jay Tyack and Marlen Walker have taken the Sarries scrum apart. That's really not a weak Sarries scrum either so I'd wouldn't be at all surprised if either of those props ended up with Prem contracts.

by TightHEAD Sat 06 Mar 2021, 5:22 pm

Hooper out.

Holding Bath back.

by formerly known as Sam Sat 06 Mar 2021, 6:07 pm

king_carlos wrote:One further point on Pirates vs Sarries that's pertinent to this thread.

Jay Tyack and Marlen Walker have taken the Sarries scrum apart. That's really not a weak Sarries scrum either so I'd wouldn't be at all surprised if either of those props ended up with Prem contracts.

If they keep delivering at the set piece like that then yes they will be. The two top rated tightheads from last season played at Jersey and Nottingham, they are now employed by Sarries and Saints. Front row more than any other position the Championship seems to be viewed as a finishing school.

Only thing that's a shame about that result is that there isn't a crowd going nuts and celebrating that result through the night down in Cornwall.

by Heaf Sat 06 Mar 2021, 6:52 pm

Interesting situation in the Warriors v Bristol match - the Bristol 9 rolled the ball back onto the line from a ruck and a Warriors player put his hand through and put downward pressure on it - should that have been a try?

by formerly known as Sam Sat 06 Mar 2021, 7:01 pm

Heaf wrote:Interesting situation in the Warriors v Bristol match - the Bristol 9 rolled the ball back onto the line from a ruck and a Warriors player put his hand through and put downward pressure on it - should that have been a try?

Yes. As long as the Warriors player was in a position to legally put his hand on the ball.

by Heaf Sat 06 Mar 2021, 7:04 pm

Difficult to see but it looked like he was on the right side of the ruck ...

by No 7&1/2 Sat 06 Mar 2021, 7:25 pm

Ruck doesnt come into it. If he was on his feet hes onside.

by LeinsterFan4life Sat 06 Mar 2021, 9:39 pm

It'll be interesting to see Ealing in the premiership next season. Very Happy

by Heaf Sat 06 Mar 2021, 10:03 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ruck doesnt come into it. If he was on his feet hes onside.

Couldn't see that - but what I meant was he was onside when the ball was rolled back, as I realise once it's on/behind the line there is no offside line but I presume he would still have had to come from an onside position in the first place?

Just seen on another forum that the ref apparently said he was off his feet so that answers it ...

by doctor_grey Sat 06 Mar 2021, 10:04 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Only thing that's a shame about that result is that there isn't a crowd going nuts and celebrating that result through the night down in Cornwall.

You really know what goes on through the night in Cornwall???? Hmmm. During the day, everything is safe and normal. But at night......things happen. I wouldn't go out alone......

by mikey_dragon Sat 06 Mar 2021, 11:44 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:It'll be interesting to see Ealing in the premiership next season.

Does that mean Sarries aren’t coming up? They lost again. Or are they both coming up with it due to be ringfenced?

With either Bath or Wuss to go down!

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 07 Mar 2021, 5:29 am

If ringfencing came in I'm pretty sure Sarries would have to come up as they're a partner in the AP (I could be wrong on this). If relegation is to return, then maybe they won't?

It's a rather complex matter, but either way....we need Saracens in the Prem.

by Gooseberry Sun 07 Mar 2021, 6:38 am

They also have the ability to attract decent crowds and the financial backing to be able to make a sustainable franchise. They will be included in ring fencing if its a 13+ team league.

As it is though its Hartbury topping the table and would be hilarious if they were bought up

One of the most worrying things about the current fiasco at Saracens is that Manu Vunipola was Englands 3rd choice 10 in the autumn tests.

by formerly known as Sam Sun 07 Mar 2021, 8:18 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:It'll be interesting to see Ealing in the premiership next season.

Does that mean Sarries aren’t coming up? They lost again. Or are they both coming up with it due to be ringfenced?

With either Bath or Wuss to go down!

This was the first game of the Championship season, previous losses were friendlies. I fully expect Saracens to get up to speed and start winning. I also fully expect relegation to be cancelled this season and an expanding league for next season. Otherwise Gloucester would likely go down and then they'd be complaints that they played all their games whilst others around them did not.

by formerly known as Sam Sun 07 Mar 2021, 8:27 am

Gooseberry wrote:One of the most worrying things about the current fiasco at Saracens is that Manu Vunipola was Englands 3rd choice 10 in the autumn tests.

Surely he was there as an apprentice. Saracens for all their high profile signings and salary cap cheating have produced a lot of local talent to their first team that has also benefitted England. One of the reasons they won't be left to rot in the Championship if ring fencing takes place.

I doubt the RFU are intelligent enough to notice but the Pirates getting the win yesterday again underlines the quality on the second tier. The slashing of the funding to the Championship is genuinely stupidity of the highest order.

by doctor_grey Sun 07 Mar 2021, 8:36 am

Saries are playing without a number of their usual players who are on International duty. When they come back into the squad I am sure they will be much better. On the other hand, they have players on loan at other teams, who won't be able to return for this season. Not sure how this will play out, but it certainly makes things more interesting. The loss in Cornwall was unexpected. It sure would be a shock if they don't finish in the top 2 meaning they can't be promoted.

by TightHEAD Sun 07 Mar 2021, 1:44 pm

I would love a trip to Cornwall to watch a Prem game.

by king_carlos Sun 07 Mar 2021, 3:35 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:If ringfencing came in I'm pretty sure Sarries would have to come up as they're a partner in the AP (I could be wrong on this). If relegation is to return, then maybe they won't?

It's a rather complex matter, but either way....we need Saracens in the Prem.

Yep, the 13 shareholder clubs are the current Premiership and Sarries. Chiefs were entitled to buy Leed's shares for around £5m after Leeds had been out of the league for more than a year. Which was the last time a relegated side were down for more than one season.

by king_carlos Sun 07 Mar 2021, 3:39 pm

Quins seem to be playing off 9 more than 10 so far in this game. When I've seen them this season they've played off Smith more than Care. They are looking good playing from 9 and making good yards over the gain line but not quite converting all their chances.

Marler has been looking strong for them as ever. England have really missed his solidity at loosehead.

by king_carlos Sun 07 Mar 2021, 3:40 pm

Of course the second I make a comment about converting chances Brown crashes over! Laugh

by Duty281 Sun 07 Mar 2021, 3:45 pm

doctor_grey wrote:Saries are playing without a number of their usual players who are on International duty. When they come back into the squad I am sure they will be much better. On the other hand, they have players on loan at other teams, who won't be able to return for this season. Not sure how this will play out, but it certainly makes things more interesting. The loss in Cornwall was unexpected. It sure would be a shock if they don't finish in the top 2 meaning they can't be promoted.

Yes, I'd still expect Saracens to finish top two and win the two-legged playoff final to get to the Premiership, but a lot of Saracens' fans seem pessimistic about their prospects after yesterday's defeat.

Does anyone know which Championship clubs aren't eligible for promotion? I know in the past the Cornish Pirates, for instance, weren't eligible for promotion due to the size of their ground - I'm assuming that still applies?

by mikey_dragon Sun 07 Mar 2021, 3:54 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:It'll be interesting to see Ealing in the premiership next season.

Does that mean Sarries aren’t coming up? They lost again. Or are they both coming up with it due to be ringfenced?

With either Bath or Wuss to go down!

This was the first game of the Championship season, previous losses were friendlies. I fully expect Saracens to get up to speed and start winning. I also fully expect relegation to be cancelled this season and an expanding league for next season. Otherwise Gloucester would likely go down and then they'd be complaints that they played all their games whilst others around them did not.

I didn’t know the previous ones were just friendlies. I see the light when it comes to ringfencing, because in recent years it’s mostly been the same teams up and down. I’m not sure though, as the relegation factor seems to add some intensity to the competition. This year aside as it’s a bit of a novelty, and a bit hollow.

I’d also agree that the championship has some quality teams. The premiership could probably be 14/15 teams and do well; also can’t see Sarries losing often when they have their internationals back.

by king_carlos Sun 07 Mar 2021, 4:11 pm

This Quins vs Saints game is nuts!

by TightHEAD Sun 07 Mar 2021, 4:23 pm

Marcus Smith should be starting the next two games in the 6 nations over Ford.

Madness this guy is not involved.

by formerly known as Sam Sun 07 Mar 2021, 4:33 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Marcus Smith should be starting the next two games in the 6 nations over Ford.

Madness this guy is not involved.

He's got a bright future ahead of him. Right now he might be happier to not be involved. The grass is always greener and all that plus that midfield for England is so unbalanced it's like trying to get a tune out of a guitar with three missing strings whilst the other three are horrendously out of tune.

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