England post 2022 6Ns, Aus tour and beyond

by mountain man Mon 17 Oct 2022, 11:38 am

Hate to say it and I don't wish him injured but I'm glad Ewels not available!
If you're disappointed with Malins and Daly being selected, imagine how most of us feel about Youngs being there.
In fairness, Malins and Daly been superb this season but please give Radwan and Arundell a run.

by lostinwales Mon 17 Oct 2022, 11:43 am

mountain man wrote:Hate to say it and I don't wish him injured but I'm glad Ewels not available!
If you're disappointed with Malins and Daly being selected, imagine how most of us feel about Youngs being there.
In fairness, Malins and Daly been superb this season but please give Radwan and Arundell a run.

Daly isn't there

by No 7&1/2 Mon 17 Oct 2022, 11:45 am

Great to see Ribbans and Tizzard in there, ditto van Poortvliet and Quirke.

by mountain man Mon 17 Oct 2022, 11:47 am

lostinwales wrote:
mountain man wrote:Hate to say it and I don't wish him injured but I'm glad Ewels not available!
If you're disappointed with Malins and Daly being selected, imagine how most of us feel about Youngs being there.
In fairness, Malins and Daly been superb this season but please give Radwan and Arundell a run.

Daly isn't there

Sorry meant Furbank, so used to seeing Daly in squad it was a reflex action!

by lostinwales Mon 17 Oct 2022, 12:19 pm

mountain man wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
mountain man wrote:Hate to say it and I don't wish him injured but I'm glad Ewels not available!
If you're disappointed with Malins and Daly being selected, imagine how most of us feel about Youngs being there.
In fairness, Malins and Daly been superb this season but please give Radwan and Arundell a run.

Daly isn't there

Sorry meant Furbank, so used to seeing Daly in squad it was a reflex action!

Completely understandable.

Daly did have some good games for England, and a few not so good...

by mountain man Mon 17 Oct 2022, 12:24 pm

Yes and he has been excellent for Sarries so far this season but too many poor games for Eng in recent years for me.
Ben Earl another who has been brilliant so surprised he didn't get call. Not sure Slade omitted is a bad thing, he's been OK no more for Eng.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 17 Oct 2022, 2:28 pm

England are going to be playing vibrant rugby this autumn apparently which will be a nice change.

Come big chances here for players to put themselves well in the shop window. Positions all across the pitch look to have openings for at least the 2nd placed player.

by Geordie Mon 17 Oct 2022, 3:27 pm

Sam Simmonds over Earl is simply laughable....

As is Sincklers selection...

by No 7&1/2 Mon 17 Oct 2022, 3:43 pm

For me the squad is better covered with 2 proper 8s, that French scrum when Curry lost control still irks me.

Sinckler is clearly high up on the choice of world tight heads, played well and adds a clear difference in the loose to any tight head in the world bar Furlong. That along with Stuart's knee means to see him dropped out you would be starting Heyes and then a potential debutant. And given if Genge goes down on the other, and the hooker you could be quickly looking at a callow front row facing SA.

by Geordie Mon 17 Oct 2022, 3:47 pm

Im just concerned that Sinckler is so badly out of form and more importantly his attitude looks shocking like he genuinely couldn't care.

I hope the training camp sorts him out.

by mountain man Mon 17 Oct 2022, 3:47 pm

Geordie wrote:Sam Simmonds over Earl is simply laughable....

As is Sincklers selection...

Yes bit surprising I thought as well. Certainly not including Earl. Sinckler basically had a mare since move back to Bristol, karma for that very silly ill advised video he did whilst still on books at Quins maybe. Good player when in form though for sure.

by Geordie Mon 17 Oct 2022, 3:49 pm

However on glad to see Murley in there cracking winger and Jack Willis...Tizzard...

by Geordie Mon 17 Oct 2022, 3:50 pm

mountain man wrote:
Geordie wrote:Sam Simmonds over Earl is simply laughable....

As is Sincklers selection...

Yes bit surprising I thought as well. Certainly not including Earl. Sinckler basically had a mare since move back to Bristol, karma for that very silly ill advised video he did whilst still on books at Quins maybe. Good player when in form though for sure.

Just feels its been a LONG time since we've seen that player who was at Quins...aggressive, motivated etc...

by No 7&1/2 Mon 17 Oct 2022, 3:52 pm

Sinckler played well at the weekend; I mean I do like the look of Alo a lot but he's not been looked at before, would be a huge change in direction for Jones.

by doctor_grey Mon 17 Oct 2022, 11:06 pm

Geordie wrote:However on glad to see Murley in there cracking winger and Jack Willis...Tizzard...

Hypothetically, if Jack Willis gets injured during one of the Autumn Internationals, which club, or where does he go for treatment and rehabilitation? Who is responsible for him in that instance?

by **Rugby Fan** Tue 18 Oct 2022, 3:13 am

doctor_grey wrote:
Geordie wrote:However on glad to see Murley in there cracking winger and Jack Willis...Tizzard...
Hypothetically, if Jack Willis gets injured during one of the Autumn Internationals, which club, or where does he go for treatment and rehabilitation? Who is responsible for him in that instance?

Sounds like England staff will look after him.

by BamBam Tue 18 Oct 2022, 2:37 pm

Rumours that Barbeary could head to France. Hopefully not

by mountain man Tue 18 Oct 2022, 3:08 pm

BamBam wrote:Rumours that Barbeary could head to France. Hopefully not

He didn't get call for AIs so maybe he's had nod he's not going to get picked for Eng he's decided to go for the cash?

by MichaelT Tue 18 Oct 2022, 3:50 pm

mountain man wrote:
BamBam wrote:Rumours that Barbeary could head to France. Hopefully not

He didn't get call for AIs so maybe he's had nod he's not going to get picked for Eng he's decided to go for the cash?

Barbeary is only 22. Plenty of time for him to have an England career even if he plays in France for 2 or 3 years. He has to look after himself first and foremost.

With Dombrant and Mercer being 25 and Vunipola only turning 30 this year its not like England are short of options either.

by lostinwales Tue 18 Oct 2022, 4:20 pm

Barbeary is one of those namechecked as not being selected because of injury.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 18 Oct 2022, 4:25 pm

And I reckon any move to France would now be covered by the exceptional circumstances clause.

by doctor_grey Tue 18 Oct 2022, 5:52 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
Geordie wrote:However on glad to see Murley in there cracking winger and Jack Willis...Tizzard...
Hypothetically, if Jack Willis gets injured during one of the Autumn Internationals, which club, or where does he go for treatment and rehabilitation? Who is responsible for him in that instance?

Sounds like England staff will look after him.

I hope so. I know a few docs who work with other clubs and they have heard nothing. There was a rumour over the weekend amongst the med community that players who are injured would be spread across the Premiership clubs for care and rehab paid by insurance and any balance by the RFU. I have no idea if that is right or not. Jack Willis would be, I suppose, the only exception to that rule because he also plays for England??? Really don't know...

by WELL-PAST-IT Wed 19 Oct 2022, 9:20 am

From a Saints perspective, the inclusion of Ribbans and Coles, plus Lawes is great and in Coles case, justified by his form this season, but leaves us a bit short on locks/blind sides.

I am not sure what Mitchell has to do to get a go, he has been on form all season. He no longer fades away in games and has been involved in just about everything Saints have done well this season.

by formerly known as Sam Wed 19 Oct 2022, 9:49 am

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:From a Saints perspective, the inclusion of Ribbans and Coles, plus Lawes is great and in Coles case, justified by his form this season, but leaves us a bit short on locks/blind sides.

I am not sure what Mitchell has to do to get a go, he has been on form all season. He no longer fades away in games and has been involved in just about everything Saints have done well this season.

From a neutral perspective Mitchell looks to have exactly the same strengths and weaknesses as last season. He looks to fade away in the tougher games still, not helped by Saints leaving him out there longer than a lot of his contemporaries mind. He really deserved a go in the summer and could have been a great impact option for England. With the success of JVP in the summer and Quirke last Autumn, both of whom have started the season well, doesn't leave room for Mitchell. Eddie wants one experienced scrum half in the squad it seems, preferably Youngs but when he took the summer off Care.

by mountain man Wed 19 Oct 2022, 9:51 am

Agree about Mitchell, seems odd he's not been given a chance. I wonder whether Jones doesn't rate his rugby or is it a personality thing? Jones seems to bear a grudge on occasion.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 19 Oct 2022, 10:06 am

Can't be personality or surely he wouldn't even make other squads? That said I agree in part with Jones liking an experienced yes man in the squad. If Youngs is there to drive quality in training and add his experience to those 2 youngsters for their roles in match day squads then great.

by mountain man Wed 19 Oct 2022, 10:28 am

Yeah I was just thinking about how Jones fell out with Care so I'm probably way off mark but I find it odd given Mitchells form he's not looked at. Anyway, I'm more than happy with JvP and Quirke, it's that other one who'll doubtlessly be picked to start who is my concern.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 20 Oct 2022, 7:10 am

Bit of a random link to Mngomezulu by Erasmus in his press conference yesterday.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 21 Oct 2022, 3:26 pm

Lawes still not training because of concussion. Why is he still being considered at all for the AIs, it's been weeks out already surely can't be fit and why take a risk on someones long term health if he's struggling BBC:

Courtney Lawes will not join up with the England squad in Jersey next week as he continues to recover from concussion.

The Northampton forward, who captained England to their series win in Australia last summer, has only played for his club once this season.

He suffered a head injury in the 50th minute of the defeat by Leicester Tigers on 24 September.

London Irish flanker Tom Pearson has been called up to the squad.

England head coach Eddie Jones has delayed naming his captain for the upcoming autumn internationals, with 33-year-old Lawes having been his most recent choice.

Owen Farrell and Tom Curry are leading candidates to replaces Lawes if he is not fit enough to be selected for England in their opening game against Argentina on 6 November.

England will also play Japan, New Zealand and world champions South Africa on successive weekends at Twickenham.

by mountain man Fri 21 Oct 2022, 3:33 pm

Exactly. Same happened with Underhill, he was rushed back into England team and got injured again. Absolutely no reason at all to take any chances. AIs can and should be used to try out players for 6N and RWC. Jones knows what Lawes brings, even if he misses entire AIs he can get back playing and fit for club then concentrate on 6N and onwards. Seems blindingly obvious but unfortunately the blindingly obvious doesn't always seem to apply.

by Cumbrian Fri 21 Oct 2022, 8:18 pm

Not looking good for May, looks like a dislocated elbow. Arundell off as well. I've lost count of the number of players who are out injured now.

by Sharkey06 Fri 21 Oct 2022, 10:12 pm

I have to admit I will be glad when Jones is gone. His record is famine or feast and his selection policy is so full of holes I just shake my head. Sam Simmonds was on fire for 2 years, yet couldn't get near the England squad. Now he is out of form he cannot be dropped. Ben Earl who has been on fire for the last season and a half can no longer get near the England team, having been an ever present for the 2 years before. He picks Ben Youngs regardless of form and does his best to destroy any other competitor by constantly picking and not playing and then dropping them. My big prediction for the Autumn internationals ..... Manu will play one game and get injured. Thereafter we will be treated to a Farrell Potter midfield with little to no invention.

by Geordie Fri 21 Oct 2022, 10:20 pm

Couldn't agree more Sharkey.

by mountain man Sat 22 Oct 2022, 7:18 am

Plus rumours Paolo Odogwu may opt for Italy as he was one of those picked but never played for England.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 22 Oct 2022, 8:24 am

Simmond is there to cover 8 though. Earl is a good player but personally I'd have Curry and Willis a mile ahead of him at 7.

I will always disagree with any England coach on selection I'd imagine as there are shed loads of players we can choose. I've said it before but I doubt many of us would pick the same 23. My issue for the past 2 years has been the tactics of kick first no matter what.

by Cumbrian Sat 22 Oct 2022, 1:28 pm

I noted that Pearson has been called up to train for Lawes. Which back-row do we think Eddie will pick if Lawes is out? I quite like the look of:

06. Willis
07. Curry
08. Billy

Probably not the best come line-out time, but will fight anyone on the deck and around the field.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 22 Oct 2022, 2:29 pm

That 6 and 7 is my first choice anyway.

by **Rugby Fan** Sun 23 Oct 2022, 4:05 am

Cumbrian wrote:Not looking good for May, looks like a dislocated elbow. Arundell off as well. I've lost count of the number of players who are out injured now.

Farrell (concussion), Cowan Dickie (knee) and Lewis Ludlam (hip) all on the list.

Farrell now has a mandatory 12 say stand-down, after which he could get the all-clear, or else have lingering symptoms like Lawes.

No word on Cowan Dickie's knee. Given Jamie George and Nic Dolly are already out, then that could affect the coherency of the set piece.

Saints early take on Ludlam is he has a hip pointer, rather than "anything structural", though further examination will be forthcoming. A hip pointer could still keep him out of action.

by Geordie Sun 23 Oct 2022, 9:00 am

If they can't make it....
Farrell replaced by Lawrence
Ludlum - Earl
LcD is the issue...I'd go Blamire but even as a loyal Falcon it's difficult as he's just not playing enough and when he has its at 7 not 2...

by mountain man Sun 23 Oct 2022, 9:11 am

Geordie wrote:If they can't make it....
Farrell replaced by Lawrence
Ludlum - Earl
LcD is the issue...I'd go Blamire but even as a loyal Falcon it's difficult as he's just not playing enough and when he has its at 7 not 2...

Yep I'd go with those also. Jones on other hand....

by **Rugby Fan** Sun 23 Oct 2022, 11:00 am

Geordie wrote:If they can't make it....
Farrell replaced by Lawrence

Woudn't that leave Smith and Furbank as the only flyhalves, as Slade isn't there to be extra cover? Slade and Daly are also absent goalkicking options.

by Sgt_Pooly Sun 23 Oct 2022, 11:06 am

Furbank as a fullback is scary enough....talk of him as a flyhalf is just insane!

by Geordie Sun 23 Oct 2022, 11:42 am

Not insane for Jones

by No 7&1/2 Sun 23 Oct 2022, 2:36 pm

Who is the next proper fly half in line? Simmonds? Skinner as he's been keeping simmonds out?

by **Rugby Fan** Sun 23 Oct 2022, 3:07 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Who is the next proper fly half in line? Simmonds? Skinner as he's been keeping simmonds out?

Formally, I suppose it would be Orlando Bailey, though that probably isn't current thinking (he's out for a few weeks with a facial injury, anyway).

by No 7&1/2 Sun 23 Oct 2022, 3:37 pm

Roebuck being called up then apparently. Wouldn't be on my radar for us.

by **Rugby Fan** Sun 23 Oct 2022, 3:39 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Roebuck being called up then apparently. Wouldn't be on my radar for us.

Sounds like he's been in good form.

by formerly known as Sam Sun 23 Oct 2022, 4:32 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Roebuck being called up then apparently. Wouldn't be on my radar for us.
Sounds like he's been in good form.

Three tries in five games before today. He's been playing well so far so not a bad idea to bring a young guy in form into the squad.

by formerly known as Sam Sun 23 Oct 2022, 4:33 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Who is the next proper fly half in line? Simmonds? Skinner as he's been keeping simmonds out?

Skinner is about as much an international flyhalf as I am. Were they not made redundant then Atkinson or Finn Smith could be options. Mind you Willis has been selected despite his lack of club. If it's just covering from the bench then Furbank or Malins would be fine.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 23 Oct 2022, 4:41 pm

I always thought Malins best position was fly half. Not a great kicker tho. If they're cover then there's always the chance they are needed after 1 minute. Atkinson is a so so fly half for me so far. Smith very callow, is he still injured?

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