The Mayweather vs Pacquiao Debate

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Feb 2011, 7:04 pm

It is an issue that polarises the sport, and get the most headlines. It is because the are opposites in the the ring and out.

Inside the ring Mayweather is a defensive fighter, safety first, whilst Manny is an attacking fighting that brings the excitement. Outside the ring Manny is well liked, humble happy and at peace, whilst Mayweather seems angry brash, arrogant, mentally troubled and problems with the law.

It is no surprise since they seem to be polar opposites that they split opinion.

In this thread I would like to discuss how there careers match up and who would win should they eventually face each other in the ring.

by RocketAce Wed 16 Feb 2011, 7:13 pm

pretty boy to win i feel :shooter:

by Guest Wed 16 Feb 2011, 7:19 pm

Sorry D4, it's been done to death as well you know. However, just to clarify once and for all, whilst I'd dearly love to see Mayweather being given a boxing lesson, there's very little chance of it being done and certainly not by Manny. Nice guy and great little fighter but even if he manages to trouble Mayweather in the early going, by about round four, Floyd will figure him out and take him to school via the cleaners.

The only debate is whether or not Floyd embarrasses Manny for the remainder of the fight or he puts his foot on the gas and takes PacMan out just to settle the argument once and for all.

Mayweather, as much as it pains me to say, is just far too good.

by RocketAce Wed 16 Feb 2011, 7:20 pm

welcome to thhe the forum Dave667, nice to see you here thumbsup

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Feb 2011, 7:31 pm

Evening DAVE

Floyd has had trouble with soutpaws, speed and pressure before, Manny has all of this and more. Manny also posses huge power a great chin and an unbelievable work rate.

Is it that hard to see Manny beating Floyd?

by Bob Wed 16 Feb 2011, 7:32 pm

Spamming up another forum D4th?

Mayweather all day and twice on Sunday.

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Feb 2011, 7:35 pm

Hello Bob,

Can you put anymore insight in your thoughts, the reasoning behind your thinking.

by Bob Wed 16 Feb 2011, 7:45 pm

Fine. Manny got his bum handed to him twice by a good counterpuncher that he had a significant size, speed, strength and power advantage over.
I don't think Manny has any of these advantages over Floyd.

Manny struggled with one pressure fighter, Castillo, when he was injured and outweighed by 10lbs. Hatton was a pressure fighter who had a great engine...didn't help him.

by Guest Wed 16 Feb 2011, 8:06 pm

Is it that hard to see Manny beating Floyd?.

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Manny's speed is his key asset but he's still got to remain relatively static once he gets in range for his punches to count and once he does that, Floyd picks him off with ease. Like I say it may take him a couple of rounds to get to grips with it and I don't see Manny stopping him early which is his best chance of victory.

Floyd's defence is first rate and he's no slouch himself in the speed department. He does everything Manny does...and better.

by Adam D Wed 16 Feb 2011, 8:18 pm

This may have been done to death but remember this is a new board, so I think it being discussed is alright.

Although my head is saying that Myaweather would win, my heart is screaming please let Many smash in Floyds head!

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Feb 2011, 8:40 pm

Manny footwork often get over looked, for me he moves around the ring quicker than Floyd and his lateral movement to create the angles is first class.

Floyd most important shot against the southpaw is the straight right, little steps to the right makes this shot hard for Floyd to land.

Mayweather also drops his left, making the over hand right a deadly weapon from the southpaw stance. With Manny's speed it should land a lot.

by Adam D Wed 16 Feb 2011, 8:52 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:Manny footwork often get over looked, for me he moves around the ring quicker than Floyd and his lateral movement to create the angles is first class.

Floyd most important shot against the southpaw is the straight right, little steps to the right makes this shot hard for Floyd to land.

Mayweather also drops his left, making the over hand right a deadly weapon from the southpaw stance. With Manny's speed it should land a lot.

the one flaw in your synopsis D4 is that if you can work this out, then so does Floyd.

I would say that Floyd has more dimensions than Manny, and this fact, is the main reason why I see Floyd winning. I really hope I am wrong though!

by Bob Wed 16 Feb 2011, 8:58 pm

It is also ignoring that fact that Manny is one dimensional, and Floyd is not.

Ring smarts will be the deciding factor, and like him or loathe him Mayweather has them in spades.

by Youarethegreatest Wed 16 Feb 2011, 8:59 pm

Nice guy manny cheats on his wife, has a kid out of wedlock and tries not to pay child support - yeah nice guy.
Floyd isnt boring, he is an exciting fighter, he walked down knock out artists mosley coralles. He has conversations with commentators whilst in the ring! That pull counter he throws!, the check hook come on man! It's an honour ro watch him box. Might I add it is great to watch manny do his thing as well

by D4thincarnation Wed 16 Feb 2011, 9:09 pm

Hobo wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Manny footwork often get over looked, for me he moves around the ring quicker than Floyd and his lateral movement to create the angles is first class.

Floyd most important shot against the southpaw is the straight right, little steps to the right makes this shot hard for Floyd to land.

Mayweather also drops his left, making the over hand right a deadly weapon from the southpaw stance. With Manny's speed it should land a lot.

the one flaw in your synopsis D4 is that if you can work this out, then so does Floyd.

I would say that Floyd has more dimensions than Manny, and this fact, is the main reason why I see Floyd winning. I really hope I am wrong though!

Maybe thats why Floyd won't take the fight. Rolling Eyes

Floyd likes to dictate the pace of the fight, Floyd typically throw 30-40 punches a round and likes his opponent to throw this many too. When his opponent throw 60 or more Floyd gets hit a lot more.

Manny throw a lot a of punches a round up to 120 punches a round but I don't think he will throw that many against Floyd. Manny will look to fight in flurries, use his footwork to keep Floyd out of range, keep moving and the step in fire of a combo and step out again.

Floyd will try and spoil, disrupt the action hold and spoil, his favoured tactic is to throw the counter straight right and then hold.

If Manny is throwing 60-80 punches a round then he is winning the round, Floyd won't be throwing more than 40.

by Bob Wed 16 Feb 2011, 9:27 pm

You are still not addressing the fact that against the last counterpuncher Manny faced he threw only 50 punches a round, landing about 14.
Mayweather is a country mile better than Marquez as he demonstrated.

by Youarethegreatest Wed 16 Feb 2011, 9:31 pm

It's easier to throw that many and also be accurate when you are up against a human punchbag (clottey) or somebody who is slow and doesn't move his head (margarito) or somebody who is a come forward brawler (Hatton) or somebody who is weight drained (Morales 2&3) (Oscar) but when somebody isn't there to be hit (Floyd) or somebody who can counter you for fun (Marquez) (Martinez) (Floyd) or somebody who can keep you away with a superior Jab (Morales1) (Floyd) then you are in trouble because if you are a pattern fighter (Khan) (Paul Williams) (Katsidis) your rythm can be deciphered and you can be picked off and made to look amateurish. I truly believe Manny will will be outclassed his only weapon is his stamina meaning that it's unlikely that he will be stopped. Floyd made a mistake dropping his left against shane but after that 2nd round Floyd's defense was much more respectful of Mosley

by **oxring** Thu 17 Feb 2011, 12:58 am

Yep - Manny definitely can't fight counterpunchers.

Like Barrera. Who he battered.

Marquez worked Manny out well - but that's no indication for Floyd.

1. Floyd doesn't like southpaws. The first lefty he fought - his daddy rang from prison to abuse his handlers to make sure his son never looked that bad again
2. Floyd struggles with fast pressure fighters - that KEEP the pressure on. Judah was winning up to round 6 - and then slowed down and tired out. Castillo debateably beat him first time around.
3. Floyd hasn't actually looked that amazing since he came back. 2 fights. He dominates both. Am I mad in saying this? No. I'm not arguing that he looked class. But compared with where he was? Marquez could land against him - but didn't worry or trouble him because he didn't carry his power. Mosley really had him in trouble - but stopped throwing punches. Some of that is credit to Floyd - but some of that is just down to Mosley - either throughg gassing/mentally not carrying the pressure through.
4. Anyone who says Manny is one-dimensional is biased or blind. He is VERY quick - good lateral movement, great handspeed and power.
5. He also lives and breathes boxing, unlike Floyd, who "isn't thinking about boxing right now". Possibly thinking about his trial instead.

Manny could struggle for a number of reasons - he doesn't like counterpunchers THAT much, although he is well capable of beating them. Floyd is wonderful at out-thinking fighters, is multi-dimensional, multi-talented. Floyd's chin is pretty good (although we don't know how good Floyd's chin will be once come the time he fights Manny, if ever).

However notions that Manny is an easy night for anyone are misguided. Floyd didn't have an easy night with Judah, with Castillo 1 or 2.

And if one more person says that "there's no blueprint" - think Castillo 1. There's the blueprint.
--------------------------------------------
If we are criticising Manny for his out of the ring antics - lets criticise Floyd? Or lets not - because that's been done to death and Manny wins the out-of-the-ring battle.

Manny is a good embassador for the sport. He's not perfect. He's a man like any other. If I recall - his refusal to pay the full some of money was subject to the woman doing a paternity test - which she refused. He'd paid out "just in case" but in addition to the single encounter Manny had with her - she had a boyfriend at the time. Either way - who cares? Duran cheated, Ali cheated - hell Ali paraded his mistress to the press of the world and the entire country when in Manila. We remember what they did in the ring - its more important.

by Youarethegreatest Thu 17 Feb 2011, 10:28 pm

oxring wrote:Yep - Manny definitely can't fight counterpunchers.

Like Barrera. Who he battered.

Marquez worked Manny out well - but that's no indication for Floyd.

1. Floyd doesn't like southpaws. The first lefty he fought - his daddy rang from prison to abuse his handlers to make sure his son never looked that bad again
2. Floyd struggles with fast pressure fighters - that KEEP the pressure on. Judah was winning up to round 6 - and then slowed down and tired out. Castillo debateably beat him first time around.
3. Floyd hasn't actually looked that amazing since he came back. 2 fights. He dominates both. Am I mad in saying this? No. I'm not arguing that he looked class. But compared with where he was? Marquez could land against him - but didn't worry or trouble him because he didn't carry his power. Mosley really had him in trouble - but stopped throwing punches. Some of that is credit to Floyd - but some of that is just down to Mosley - either throughg gassing/mentally not carrying the pressure through.
4. Anyone who says Manny is one-dimensional is biased or blind. He is VERY quick - good lateral movement, great handspeed and power.
5. He also lives and breathes boxing, unlike Floyd, who "isn't thinking about boxing right now". Possibly thinking about his trial instead.

Manny could struggle for a number of reasons - he doesn't like counterpunchers THAT much, although he is well capable of beating them. Floyd is wonderful at out-thinking fighters, is multi-dimensional, multi-talented. Floyd's chin is pretty good (although we don't know how good Floyd's chin will be once come the time he fights Manny, if ever).

However notions that Manny is an easy night for anyone are misguided. Floyd didn't have an easy night with Judah, with Castillo 1 or 2.

And if one more person says that "there's no blueprint" - think Castillo 1. There's the blueprint.
--------------------------------------------
If we are criticising Manny for his out of the ring antics - lets criticise Floyd? Or lets not - because that's been done to death and Manny wins the out-of-the-ring battle.

Manny is a good embassador for the sport. He's not perfect. He's a man like any other. If I recall - his refusal to pay the full some of money was subject to the woman doing a paternity test - which she refused. He'd paid out "just in case" but in addition to the single encounter Manny had with her - she had a boyfriend at the time. Either way - who cares? Duran cheated, Ali cheated - hell Ali paraded his mistress to the press of the world and the entire country when in Manila. We remember what they did in the ring - its more important.

Yeah he really had an easy night with master counter puncher marquez didnt he? Floyd learnt from his 1st castillo fight. Against a live in shape brawler like morales he was outboxed his jab was too much. Manny is a pattern fighter and Floyd is the smartest fighter in the game.

How does manny win the out of the ring battle? they are both despicable human beings

by D4thincarnation Thu 17 Feb 2011, 10:33 pm

Yes Morales jab caused Pacquiao problems in the first fight. And what did Pacquiao do to counter that, work on the right hook counter for the second fight.

It paid instance dividends and now his right hook counter is probably the best in boxing right now. Before the Morales fight Pacquiao hardly used the right and now it is good as his left.

If you are judging Pacquiao vs Mayweather on the Morales I fight you will come up with the wrong answer.

by Bob Thu 17 Feb 2011, 10:42 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:

If you are judging Pacquiao vs Mayweather on the Morales I fight you will come up with the wrong answer.

I agree. Better to judge on more recent form.

I assume that you, and the Manny bandwagon, will play on a level field and not kid yourselves that Floyd is vulnerable based on a close fight nine years ago.

Sauce for the goose et al.....

by D4thincarnation Thu 17 Feb 2011, 10:44 pm

Bob wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:

If you are judging Pacquiao vs Mayweather on the Morales I fight you will come up with the wrong answer.

I agree. Better to judge on more recent form.

I assume that you, and the Manny bandwagon, will play on a level field and not kid yourselves that Floyd is vulnerable based on a close fight nine years ago.

Sauce for the goose et al.....

Can you tell us what Floyd has done to improve his game over the years?

by Bob Thu 17 Feb 2011, 10:56 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
Bob wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:

If you are judging Pacquiao vs Mayweather on the Morales I fight you will come up with the wrong answer.

I agree. Better to judge on more recent form.

I assume that you, and the Manny bandwagon, will play on a level field and not kid yourselves that Floyd is vulnerable based on a close fight nine years ago.

Sauce for the goose et al.....

Can you tell us what Floyd has done to improve his game over the years?

To what end?

If I thought I was debating with somebody who was capable of giving credit where credit is due I would, but you do as you always have and cling to your obsessive, pro Manny Poopie.

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Thu 17 Feb 2011, 11:00 pm

Firstly I think it will take a southpaw to beat mayweather. Secondly, it will take someone of at least equal speed. Floyd likes to dictate the pace of the fight, but manny has a relentlessness that will seriously trouble him. Floyd will look to block and dodge mannys shots and counter but manny throws such fast combinations from such an array of angles he will almost certainly get hit more than in any other fight. Floyd also tends to potshot, rarely throwing more than two consecutive punches, and not being a huge puncher he may struggle to get Manny to respect his firepower, especially as manny has a decent chin.

Floyd may also struggle to work out mannys jerky in out movement. Floyd showed against mosley he can be hurt, and manny would not relent the way mosley did if he got him in trouble. Also, floyd often starts slow and takes over as the fight goes on, but manny has such bottomless reserves of energy he may not be able to do this. To beat floyd manny needs to do what he does best - keep moving, apply pressure with fast hands and hit the angles, not let him off the hook if he hurts him, keep a high pace for 12 rounds and not let floyd get into a rhythm. If he can do this he can basically outwork and out-land floyd to take a decision. Manny is more than capable of doing this and I give him a very high chance of beating floyd, higher than any opponent floyd has ever fought.

I also think floyd is now slightly past his best - I think his absolute peak was around the hatton fight, he was exceptional then and it's a shame he chose to take a break after it. I don't think he is quite as fast or has quite the same spring in his legs as he did back then, and his ring weight is probably about 10lb heavier.

Now, conversely, to beat manny the most important thing floyd has to do is make manny think. It's been clear throughout mannys career that he fights brilliantly on instinct, when opponents come at him he can hit and move or go toe to toe, but when he's given something to think about he is less effective, and can become reckless and sloppy and becomes an easier target.

No opponent will give manny a greater puzzle to work out than floyd. Manny is an accurate puncher when he's given a target, but floyd won't give him one. Floyd will not walk at him in straight lines and he won't go to war with him. Instead he'll back off, let manny do the work and try to catch the eye with clever defensive work and clean, eye catching punches. Manny is a lot easier to hit than floyd - margarito landed a lot of punches and his hands are nowhere near as accurate or fast as floyds.

If floyd gets into a rhythm there is a genuine case that he could make manny look a bit silly, as he did to hatton who also rushed at him, but it's unlikely as manny has a more sophisticated offence than hatton ever did.

For mayweather to win he must work an effective jab (not ramrod, just enough to make manny think about his approach - like cotto did effectively before getting macho). He must also make manny waste punches and frustrate him which will lead to manny being more reckless, as manny is a naturally aggressive fighter. He'll need to be prepared to tear it up at times and be taken out of his comfort zone. Finally he must utilise accurate clean punching - punching crisp enough to catch the judges eye more than mannys volume punching and higher workrate. Floyd is a cleverer boxer than manny and has the ring generalship to control manny and walk him onto big shots and fast counters. I doubt he could ko manny or would be prepared to be aggressive enough to get the tko, but if he's smart - which he is, he could simply outclass him with elusiveness and clean punching.

Overall I give a slight edge to mayweather. Size is irrelevant, there's not much in it and neither really imposes themselves physically on opponents. Speed is also too close to call, but I think right now manny has a slight edge. But this fight will be won on boxing smarts and on who's style is more effective against the others. On that basis floyd has better ring generalship, and is proven at handling aggressive opponents whilst getting his own, more telling shots off. Manny tends to struggle more when given something to think about instead of fighting on instinct, and has been hit easily by fighters with slower, less accurate hands than floyd. But it's a close run thing and it's obvious why we need this fight - because each man is the only one capable of beating the other.

I give it 55/45 in mayweathers favour, based on ring intellect and how I think their styles would blend, almost certainly by close decision. From a personal perspective I'd prefer manny to get the victory, I respect the ability of both but favour him as an individual.

by D4thincarnation Thu 17 Feb 2011, 11:00 pm

Bob

Well it not only for my benefit it is for the boards. If you believe Floyd has made significant improvements over the last 9 years, I would like to hear your input into this matter and how will it affect on how we see the Pacquiao vs Mayweather fight.

For me Mayweather has made changes some not for the better and none of any great significance. Long spells out of the game does not improve you game.

by D4thincarnation Thu 17 Feb 2011, 11:14 pm

You can't beat Manny with the jab, his right hook counter will catch Mayweather all night if he comes out jabbing, and Manny will make Floyd pay.

Floyd also drops his left and is open from the southpaw stance to the right hand, as Mosley showed. With Manny's speed Floyd better watch out.

Will Floyd be quick enough to counter Pacquiao, he couldn't against Judah.

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Thu 17 Feb 2011, 11:19 pm

You're right D4, manny is literally unbeatable. I don't even know why everyone wants mayweather to fight him, it's pointless, he only has a 10/90 chance of victory so why bother.

by Youarethegreatest Thu 17 Feb 2011, 11:22 pm

manny is a pattern fighter who has been outboxed by a brawler. he doesnt change. He has and can be out thought, roach wont help him against floyd

by D4thincarnation Thu 17 Feb 2011, 11:28 pm

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:You're right D4, manny is literally unbeatable. I don't even know why everyone wants mayweather to fight him, it's pointless, he only has a 10/90 chance of victory so why bother.

Manny has who has been blighted by illness last year, influenza, stomach ulcer, two of the biggest killer the world has seen. But now Manny has gotten a ganglion cyst on his jabbing hand which could be a problem for him in fights.

He might need an treatment to fix it, which will be steroids, i'm sure someone will twist that to suit their agenda.

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Thu 17 Feb 2011, 11:38 pm

So it'll be mannys supposed health problems that beat him rather than mayweather? I'm sure some people *ahem* will twist that one in.

If manny had proper flu he'd have been laid low for a week minimum and probably not been able to fight margarito. It's all propaganda to sell a fight against an unpopular choice of opponent. Stomach ulcer? He flew to L.A the day after it was playing him up, clearly not a concern to his doctors and didn't affect him against margarito either. Floyds had a torn rotator cuff, rib injury training for Marquez, suffers with brittle hands. It's only natural that all boxers over 30 have wear & tear, manny & floyd are no different. Look at froch, he seems to carry an injury into virtually every fight, it's the nature of the beast, if you're not fit enough then don't fight - and if you choose to fight anyway don't use it as a convenient excuse if things don't go your way.

by **Enforcer** Fri 18 Feb 2011, 12:24 am

I have merged the the two active Manny v Mayweather threads.

If anyone has anything to add regarding how these two would fair if they squared up, please add them here thumbsup

by azania Fri 18 Feb 2011, 3:01 pm

There is not a chance in hell of Manny beating Floyd or getting more than 3 rounds off him. Floyds jab will be in Manny's face from round 2 which will make manny cautious. Floyd's speed is superior to Manny. his skill set is far beyond anything manny has encountered. I am not being delusional when I say it will be an easy payday for Floyd.

the jab is the key and Floyd has the most accurate jab I have ever seen. Manny can try all his movement, but Floyd's check hook will hurt him.

by D4thincarnation Fri 18 Feb 2011, 4:46 pm

azania wrote:There is not a chance in hell of Manny beating Floyd or getting more than 3 rounds off him. Floyds jab will be in Manny's face from round 2 which will make manny cautious. Floyd's speed is superior to Manny. his skill set is far beyond anything manny has encountered. I am not being delusional when I say it will be an easy payday for Floyd.

the jab is the key and Floyd has the most accurate jab I have ever seen. Manny can try all his movement, but Floyd's check hook will hurt him.

Floyd is not a jabber, he does not have a great jab, the perfect counter to the jab is the right hook counter and Manny has the best in the business. Floyd struggled with Judah's speed, Manny is quicker than Judah and Floyd has lost some speed.

Floyd also said it would be an easy payday, and though his words say one thing his actions say something quite different.

by Youarethegreatest Fri 18 Feb 2011, 5:23 pm

he has best right hook when his opponents are has beens or have no defense or movement - all the opposite to floyd.
jinkee, do u really think floyd's going to turn into clottey or marg should manny and floyd actually get this fight on?

by **oxring** Fri 18 Feb 2011, 5:45 pm

Youarethegreatest wrote:he has best right hook when his opponents are has beens or have no defense or movement - all the opposite to floyd.
jinkee, do u really think floyd's going to turn into clottey or marg should manny and floyd actually get this fight on?

1. Stop calling d4 jinkee - the joke's got old and boring.

2. You're entirely right - Manny is clearly rubbish - I'm not sure why anyone wants to see this fight at all.

3. Manny a "despicable human being"? Don't ever go into public relations.

I thought sugar-boy was one of the fairest posts. I entirely agree with the part about Floyd not looking quite as good since he came back (having posted that myself earlier). Floyd will be aware that he's slowed down (comes with being 33). If he goes toe-to-toe - he loses every day. His jab, which he doesn't use enough would have to keep Manny off him - but on current styles and current form - its a very very close fight

by BALTIMORA Fri 18 Feb 2011, 6:10 pm

As if this hadn't been done to death already. I don't care if they never fight, my enthusiasm for the bout has been dampened by the incessant fanboy idol-worship by some. New 606; same old rubbish. Sad

by azania Fri 18 Feb 2011, 6:21 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
azania wrote:There is not a chance in hell of Manny beating Floyd or getting more than 3 rounds off him. Floyds jab will be in Manny's face from round 2 which will make manny cautious. Floyd's speed is superior to Manny. his skill set is far beyond anything manny has encountered. I am not being delusional when I say it will be an easy payday for Floyd.

the jab is the key and Floyd has the most accurate jab I have ever seen. Manny can try all his movement, but Floyd's check hook will hurt him.

Floyd is not a jabber, he does not have a great jab, the perfect counter to the jab is the right hook counter and Manny has the best in the business. Floyd struggled with Judah's speed, Manny is quicker than Judah and Floyd has lost some speed.

Floyd also said it would be an easy payday, and though his words say one thing his actions say something quite different.

Floyd is the most accomplished boxer since the days of RJJ. His is very adaptable and when he uses it, his jab is supreme. Who wouldn't struggle with Judah's speed. But tell us all the outcome of that fight. Floyd has garnered ring generalship as he gets older. His guile is second to none. It will be an easy payday.

More ducking accusations. Tell us all why their first proposed fight did not take place. The test?

by azania Fri 18 Feb 2011, 6:28 pm

Slightly off topic and for the benefit of the board, can we keep all the Floyd/Manny debates on this thread. It stops spamming.

Just my penny's worth.

by Guest Fri 18 Feb 2011, 7:32 pm

azania wrote:Slightly off topic and for the benefit of the board, can we keep all the Floyd/Manny debates on this thread. It stops spamming.

Just my penny's worth.

As Enforcer did last night, there is a facility whereby two or several threads can be merged together.
If other Floyd/Manny debates do pop up we will merge them with this article.
Its best to keep specifiec debates in one thread which allows everyone to comment and have a view point on and makes good reading, rather than a spammed board with 2 or 3 comments in each article about the same subject thumbsup

by swedish chef Fri 18 Feb 2011, 10:03 pm

mayweather sees prison time as the safe option...FACT! :spit:

by Cheikitout Fri 18 Feb 2011, 10:26 pm

good to see some familiar faces on here from 606 boxing board never thought id say this but good to hear from you d4 i miss everday you having a snipe at floyd on the boxing board :606laugh:

im not sure how this one would go i seem to change my mind when they fight, when floyd beat moseley i was like damn floyd will give manny a lesson, floyds got handspeed good footwork excellent defense but most of all hes more accurate than manny and he is a good counter puncher and has hugely underatted power his low KO ratio is due to him tending to coast along in fights, i mean just ask hatton who was a harder opponent and who hits harder, hes say floyd hits harder on average but obviously tha shot whihc destoryed him was huge from manny. but then when i saw manny beat cotto i though floyds in trouble. if i had to put money on it id say floyd kos manny round 10 or 11. manny wont have a plan b and if floyd gets the fight going his way which he always does manny will keep coming for him and floyd will keep hittin him back with fairly powerful counters and stun him like cotto did in round 9 10 or 11 in their fight ( about the only thing decent he did apart from round one! ). so for me floyd stops manny due to mannys continous lack of defence. Mind you if manny goes all out in first few rounds like moseley and has stamina to maintain that pressure floyd doesnt posses that one punch ko power to hurt him on counter that much floyds KO's are from continous clean punches rather then one big shots, if manny drops floyd earlier mannys to good a finisher to let floyd recover.

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 19 Feb 2011, 1:06 am

FACT: the fight was virtually made - Mannys demands for gloves, weight penalties etc had been agreed, Floyd had also surprised Team Pacquiao by agreeing to 50/50 despite being the bigger draw as the PPV figures show. Why did the fight then fall through? Because manny refused, REFUSED to take a simple random blood test, the same blood test that his opponent would also have to randomly take.

I like manny, but that looked SO SO bad on him. Naturally the Floyd haters like D4 twisted this to make it appear Floyd was ducking manny; i.e Floyd had a crystal ball and knew manny would refuse. Why is it OK for Manny to make demands of floyd, and demands of cotto, margarito etc. but not to comprimise when a request is made of him? Even in July when team Pacquiao set a public deadline for Mayweather to accept THE SAME contract they'd previously refused, it transpired via Mike Koncze on Manny v Marg 24/7 that manny had only conceded to a SEVEN DAY cut off, NOT full random testing. I'm not saying Floyd is a saint in all this, but if manny had nothing to hide and just took a simple routine random blood test instead of refusing and walking away to fight a plodding gatekeeper like clottey... ?? Hmmmm. He's done himself no favours.

Roach is no fool, he KNOWS that stylistically a bigger, stronger, equally quick intelligent counter puncher like Floyd is a stylistic NIGHTMARE for manny, and has done his best to prevent the fight from happening. Immediately after Cotto when the March 13th date was proposed Roach publically poured cold water on the date saying he'd "need more time to prepare manny for a style like floyds". Unsurpisingly the fight fell through and manny took an easy fight instead.

Not saying Manny's not a great fighter coz he is, it's just that stylistically Floyd is all wrong for him, a total nightmare. Roach knows it, and anyone that understands boxing and mannys strengths and weaknesses as a fighter knows it. Which is why Team Pacquiao walked away from the fight in januray 2010 when it was as good as made. If they'd took the test they'd have lost the fight by now.

by D4thincarnation Sat 19 Feb 2011, 6:48 pm

Sugar Boy Sweetie:

Fact Floyd wanted those gloves too and the ringside and the venue and the 50/50 cut. Manny vs Cotto did 1.25m at $54.95, and then we have Mayweather vs Marquez that done 1m at $49.95, in there previous fights, so Manny was the bigger draw at this point.

Wrong again Manny did not refused blood tests, he accepted them even though Floyd threw them in after everything was agreed and all Floyd had to do was to sign the contract.

Manny agreed to the most stringent testing procedure ever to take place in boxing but it still was not good enough for Floyd. Even though his advisers told him there was no real difference in what Floyd wanted and what Manny wanted Floyd stalled and did nothing.

Manny had a date booked for a fight and with the promotions and training for the fight it needed to be signed, with Floyd happy to stall Manny had to move and Manny chose the best opponent available.

Floyd did not need a crystal ball telling him about Manny issues with having blood taken, he just needed a TV. In the Manny previous fight when Floyd's daddy is the trainer of Manny's opponent, Manny is seen having his blood taken on 24/7 and is not comfortable with it. He has it take in the morning and then has to take the day of training. Roach comment that it takes Manny a day or two to get back to his best after blood test.

There is also footage of Manny talking about when he had to give blood the day before the Morales I fight where he lost and says he felt that the it sapped is power.

I knew of Manny's aversion of having his blood taken, I have no doubt that Floyd found this out as well.

So why did Floyd think 14 day cut off was sufficient for a March match up with Manny but not for a Setepber match with Manny?

Why did the blood test stop for Floyd 19 days before the fight with Mosley and 18 days before the fight for Mosley?

Why has Floyd not signed up to WADA testing program?

It is obvious to most the boxing world that Floyd is ducking this fight.

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sat 19 Feb 2011, 7:07 pm

D4: Wrong again Manny did not refused blood tests, he accepted them even though Floyd threw them in after everything was agreed and all Floyd had to do was to sign the contract.
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Didn't agree to full random testing though did he, and to date never has. The nearest he's got is 7 days.

D4: In the Manny previous fight when Floyd's daddy is the trainer of Manny's opponent, Manny is seen having his blood taken on 24/7 and is not comfortable with it
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Didn't stop him knocking hatton out in two rounds did it? Does having blood taken only affect mannys performance when he loses - or is it just a convenient excuse for being outclassed by morales? Hmmm.

D4: It is obvious to most the boxing world that Floyd is ducking this fight.
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He's dodging manny right now, no doubt about that. But last January manny walked away from the fight refusing to take the same random tests his opponent was willing to take. Your inability and/or refusal to acknowledge simple facts doesn't alter what actually happened.

by azania Sat 19 Feb 2011, 7:09 pm

D4, there is some serious revisionism going on here.

Re: PPV buys. I'm sure Floyd had 1.5m buys and am 100% certain that Floyd has consistently outsold Manny in PPV sales throughout their careers.

Manny refused blood tests. Floyd wanted blood tests up to the day of the fight. Manny refused. It was after the fight was called off that Manny agreed to 14 days. Moreover 14 days allows roids to leave the system. So its pontless to have 14 days as a cut off point.

Manny ducked. Simples.

by azania Sat 19 Feb 2011, 7:10 pm

SBS, I dont see how Floyd is ducking Manny right now. His priorities are somewhat different given his pending court case.

by **oxring** Sat 19 Feb 2011, 7:58 pm

azania wrote:SBS, I dont see how Floyd is ducking Manny right now. His priorities are somewhat different given his pending court case.

Agreed. If he ends up in prison; probably a bit harsh to accuse Floyd of ducking then...

by D4thincarnation Mon 21 Feb 2011, 11:55 am

SBS
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Didn't agree to full random testing though did he, and to date never has. The nearest he's got is 7 days.
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"Full random testing" is just something Floyd made up, WADA do not test like that, Manny has every right to refuse, and has said from day one that he will take any test the commission sees fit. Why was 14 days ok in Floyd's mind in January but not in May, the only thing changed was the acceptance of Manny to come down to that limit, I wonder if that changed his view.

SBS
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Didn't stop him knocking hatton out in two rounds did it? Does having blood taken only affect mannys performance when he loses - or is it just a convenient excuse for being outclassed by morales? Hmmm.
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Against Hatton it was 30 days before the fight, against Morales it was a day before.

SBS.
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He's dodging manny right now, no doubt about that. But last January manny walked away from the fight refusing to take the same random tests his opponent was willing to take. Your inability and/or refusal to acknowledge simple facts doesn't alter what actually happened.
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Floyd would not compromise despite his team telling what Manny was offering 18 day as acceptable and it made no difference 14 days/18 days. Manny had to sign up a fight and it was clear that Floyd was not interested, he had to move on. My view on the situation is spot on, and I predicted all of it before it happened.

by Imperial Ghosty Mon 21 Feb 2011, 12:19 pm

Still spouting the same rubbish and lies I see d4

by D4thincarnation Mon 21 Feb 2011, 12:29 pm

imperialghosty wrote:Still spouting the same rubbish and lies I see d4

Not lies, it is the truth.

There is a reason why Floyd has never said he want to fight Manny, because he doesn't.

He has lied about negotiations, he has said he not interested in boxing when asked about the fight with Pacquiao, he has done everything he can to not make this fight happen.

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