Best bowling attacks in test cricket

Who has the best bowling attack in test cricket, i personally think its out of england and south africa, here are teams bowling attacks, what do you think?

India: Harbajhan, Kumar, Ishant, Zaheer /Sreesanth/Ojha

South Africa: Steyn, Morkel, Tsotsobe, harris/Tahir

England: Swann, Broad, Anderson, Tremlett

Sri Lanka: Herath/Mendis, Fernando, Welegedra, Lakmal

Australia: Johnson,Hauritz, Siddle, Hilfenauhs/ harris

Pakistan:Ajmal/Rehman, Gul, Riaz, Tanvir

New Zealand: Southee, Vettori, McKay, Bennett

West Indies: Roach, Bishoo, Edwards, Sammy/Rampaul

Bangaldesh: Razzak, Mortaza, rubel, shadhat/Shuvo

i think its out of england and south afrcia what do you think?

All-round I would say England have the best bowling attack

South Africa's is the best as they have 5 bowlers.

Steyn and Morkel, well no one comes close in all conditions. Kallis is a brilliant banker, 10 overs at 2 rpo. They can carry Harris and Tsotsobe. But the game break is now Tahir.

England's attack wouldn't be threatening in Asia.

they said that about when we toured australia, but like on flat pitches, we performed birrliantly, and also when it turns, we can go to spin..

i also think anderson is a better swing bowled then mohammed asif was or is..

England and South Africa are comfortably the best 2, then difficult to pick between the 2

cricketfan90 wrote:they said that about when we toured australia, but like on flat pitches, we performed birrliantly, and also when it turns, we can go to spin..

i also think anderson is a better swing bowled then mohammed asif was or is..

In 2008 in India Anderson was cannon fodder. Swann was barely threatening. Tremlett bowls to short for Asian conditions, he barely fast medium. Broad would be England's best bowler.

Even in the WC cup, Anderson was dreadful. Swann was punished by England. England's reserve spinners are pretty rubbish.

Anderson has progressed leaps and bounds since 2008, and that was Swann's first test in years. Tremlett I agree with, Shahzad might get a look in those conditions.

Swann tips the balance to England for me.

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:Anderson has progressed leaps and bounds since 2008, and that was Swann's first test in years. Tremlett I agree with, Shahzad might get a look in those conditions.

Swann tips the balance to England for me.

Finger spinners don't cut it in Asia, off spinners anyway. Look at the current crop of Asia off spinners Harbhajan, Ajmal, Randiv etc all bowl with a doosra, otherwise you get destroyed. Just look at poor old Hauritz, India pumelled him and he hasn't been seen since.

Anderson doesn't do it in Asian conditions, the WC showed this

longhopmerchant wrote:

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:Anderson has progressed leaps and bounds since 2008, and that was Swann's first test in years. Tremlett I agree with, Shahzad might get a look in those conditions.

Swann tips the balance to England for me.

Finger spinners don't cut it in Asia, off spinners anyway. Look at the current crop of Asia off spinners Harbhajan, Ajmal, Randiv etc all bowl with a doosra, otherwise you get destroyed. Just look at poor old Hauritz, India pumelled him and he hasn't been seen since.

Anderson doesn't do it in Asian conditions, the WC showed this

Anderson averages under 30 in Tests in India. Outside of England, it's his best record.

And using Hauritz as a marker to suggest the effectiveness of finger spinners is a little like using Ian Salisbury as a marker of how successful wrist spinners will be.

On the original topic, England have the best attack in cricket. Four bowlers all rated in the top 11 proves this. While SA have probably a better opening pair in Steyn and Morkel, they don't have the support. Kallis was a very good bowler, but can't put in the overs now. Outside those three their attack is weak. England have a glut of bowlers better than Tsotsobe all standing on the sidelines, and the same is true of Paul Harris and our spinners.

many teams lack genuine fast bowling, and that is usually the difference in international cricket these days

England have the best attack, they all back each other up nicely and there are now gaping weaknesses in the bowling when on form. SA's spinner never seems to much more than a pie-chucker, although I'm sure I'm doing him a disservice as he does manage to take wickets somehow. Plus, SA first change bowler isn't as good as England's. In fact, at the moment I'd rather have Finn and Bresnan over Tsotsobe, although the saffer does have potential.

And what's with this, 'your nothing till you've done it in India' rubbish? Why are India pitches the barometer for any great bowler? Surely being able to adapt to any condition in any part of the world is what makes a great player, no? England have proved thaton flat picthes (Aus), dead pitches (Lords) and swinging condidtions. As a unit, England are the best and most complete bowling attack in the world.

i dont think the aussie bowling line ups have any match winners in it nowadays

CF90

Mitchell Johnson is definitely a match winner - the only question is whether for the Aussies or for the opposition.

Agree with the comments above that playing in India should not be considered THE barometer of the quality of a bowling attack - none of the current sides have an attack that would be devastating on those wickets, but I would expect England to do as good a job as anyone of containing the Indian batting line-up on the sub-continent (heck, even McGrath, Warne, Lee and Gillespie/Kasper struggled in India, and that's probably the best all round bowling line up ever).

The current England attack is very good, and just lacks a real express paced fast bowler, but then so do most teams. We do have a very effective spinner, probably the best pure swing bowler and two very good tall seamers - probably is the best balanced attack around at the moment.

I notice how those who claim Englands attack isn't the best nearly always manage to bring ODIs into the equation, even when talking about Tests, can you explain how it has ANY relevance?

Try looking at bowling attacks as units of the whole, by that I just mean look at all your options before deciding on an all-round attack.
Opening bowlers, SA are undoubtedly top with England, India and Pakistan (if they ever sort out their 'problems') close contenders for second place.
Change bowlers, here England are easily top of the tree.
Spin bowling, currently Swann is the best and you could make a decent case for a few others as to who's no2
Strength in depth, England would appear to be head and shoulders at the top of that list, with a production line of seamers who are more than capable of filling spots due to injury/lack of form and while I don't know much about those at a similar position in their own national set-ups, I'd be amazed if any other country has the kind of depth we currently do.

Reckon an England second-string line-up would be as strong as many other teams:

Bresnan
Finn
Onions
Panesar

While a third-string would also do OK:

Woakes
Dernbach
Shahzad
Tredwell

Sorry but McGrath and Gillespie have brilliant records in India/Sri Lanka/Pakistan.

Anderson's record in India is aided by one match, Mumbai 2006, where he took 5-60 0dd over 2 innings, otherwise his record is pretty dreadful.

With regards to India not being the barometer, what I meant to say was the major Asian nations - India, Pakistan(who now play in UAE and Sri Lanka). England's attack wouldn't be threatening there.

With all due respect, thats exactly what they said before the Australian tour. I'll wait and see how they go.

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:With all due respect, thats exactly what they said before the Australian tour. I'll wait and see how they go.

Just for you, Anderson in 2008 he took 4 wickets in 2 Tests in India at an average of 53.50 and a strike rate of 104.

Iirc Anderson's record in Australia was also poor before the last test. He's massively improved from 2008. I'll wait and see how he goes before I condemn him.

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:Iirc Anderson's record in Australia was also poor before the last test. He's massively improved from 2008. I'll wait and see how he goes before I condemn him.

When batsmen go after Anderson, he's clueless, as his previous poor record in Australia showed, Hayden and Langer are up there with the best opening pair of all time. Watson, Katich and Hughes never looked like going after him.

In the sub continent guys like Sehwag and Dilshan rarely play the block shot and Anderson would be under the pump straight away.

England
South Africa
New Zealand

in that order

new zealand really?

I really rate Southee and Vettori, admittedly the other two arnt great tho

Pakistan would be up there if this was ODI

Gregers wrote:England
South Africa
New Zealand

in that order

NZ have Vettori and what else?

Australia aren't that bad, no magic bowlers any more, and no real spinners(Hauritz apart) but not total dross.

longhopmerchant wrote:

Gregers wrote:England
South Africa
New Zealand

in that order

NZ have Vettori and what else?

Australia aren't that bad, no magic bowlers any more, and no real spinners(Hauritz apart) but not total dross.

Tim Southee...

Australia are changing their bowling line up on a whim
India are missing a genuine wicket taker outside of Zaheer
WIndies attack is getting there but its a slow process
Bangladesh dont have a match winning seamer yet
Sri Lanka have an average Test attack but a great ODI attack
Pakistan are in the same boat as Sri Lanka

With all due respect to Pakistan, before they lost Asif and Amir, their attack was brilliant.

They still have a fine pool of talent. Gul, Riaz, Junaid Khan (playing for Lancashire I think), Ajmal etc.

Asif, Amir, Gul, Rana, Ajmal - Now thats a bowling attack!

Gregers wrote:Asif, Amir, Gul, Rana, Ajmal - Now thats a bowling attack!

You forgot Kaneria as well!!!

And afridi!

Gregers wrote:And afridi!

I don't the clown is suited to Test cricket, fine ODI/T20 player though

i think england have the best bowling attack and we are helped by jimmy anderson

longhopmerchant wrote:

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:With all due respect, thats exactly what they said before the Australian tour. I'll wait and see how they go.

Just for you, Anderson in 2008 he took 4 wickets in 2 Tests in India at an average of 53.50 and a strike rate of 104.

So your argument is that if you disregard the times he's done well, Anderson has a bad record in India. He has an overall average of 30 in India. That's what counts.

Sachin Tendulkar is awful based on his record at Lords.

Junaid and Riaz look promising.
WI have a quality well rounded attack thanks to the emergence of Bishoo and Rampaul.

i wouldnt say WI have an all rounded attack to be honest.

I think South Africa has the best bowling attack with England being a very close 2nd. How I wish Fredye Flintoff can still be around, England would have won test matches all with their bowling.
In fact that is the difference between the 2 sides SA and England. Jacques Kallis may not be half the bowler he was, but he still is good enough to put in 10-12 overs and a wicket or 2 on a test day.
Dale Steyn, without a doubt, is the best fast bowler at present. Morne Morkel is a fine support act. Lonwabo Tsotsobe is seriously underrated, but he can be deceptive with his appearance, he moves the ball, and is a wicket taker.
It is Imran Tahir's emergence that gives SA bowling unit the edge. He's yet to prove himself in test cricket, and at the moment Graeme Swann is the best spinner in the world. But what is special about Tahir is the fact that he is the first real attacking spinner to have emerged from SA, at least after the readmission. So Kallis and Steyn, with he addition of Tsotsobe, Morkel and Tahir just edge Anderson, Tremlett Swann and Broad.
But if you look at the depth of bowling reserves, England wins it hands down, Bresnan, Shahzad, Finn and Panesar should be the best 2nd line available to anyone. Add Onions, Dernbach, Tredwell also to the mix, England is just unmatched.

tsotsobe isnt underrated...

he is ok..

but he came over and played for the mighty eagles, in good bowling conditions, and was chucked out a few weeks out later

Guest wrote:Who has the best bowling attack in test cricket, i personally think its out of england and south africa, here are teams bowling attacks, what do you think?

India: Harbajhan, Kumar, Ishant, Zaheer /Sreesanth/Ojha

South Africa: Steyn, Morkel, Tsotsobe, harris/Tahir

England: Swann, Broad, Anderson, Tremlett

Sri Lanka: Herath/Mendis, Fernando, Welegedra, Lakmal

Australia: Johnson,Hauritz, Siddle, Hilfenauhs/ harris

Pakistan:Ajmal/Rehman, Gul, Riaz, Tanvir

New Zealand: Southee, Vettori, McKay, Bennett

West Indies: Roach, Bishoo, Edwards, Sammy/Rampaul

Bangaldesh: Razzak, Mortaza, rubel, shadhat/Shuvo

i think its out of england and south afrcia what do you think?

Eighteen months on..... (wickets in brackets)

India: Harbajhan, Kumar, Ishant, Zaheer /Sreesanth/Ojha ---Ashwin (63) Ohja (53) Yadav (32) ZKhan (22)

South Africa: Steyn, Morkel, Tsotsobe, harris/Tahir --- Philander (67) Steyn (61) Morkel (51) Peterson (6)

England: Swann, Broad, Anderson, Tremlett --- Swann (70) Anderson (62) Broad (58) Finn (20)

Sri Lanka: Herath/Mendis, Fernando, Welegedra, Lakmal --- Herath (95) Welegedara (35) Randiv (29) Eranga (15)

Australia: Johnson,Hauritz, Siddle, Hilfenauhs/ harris --- Siddle (64) Lyon (59) Hilfenhaus (44) Pattinson (31)

Pakistan:Ajmal/Rehman, Gul, Riaz, Tanvir --- Ajmal (72) Rehman (41) Gul (33) JKhan (27)

New Zealand: Southee, Vettori, McKay, Bennett --- Bracewell (42) Martin (31) Southee (30) Vettori (15)

West Indies: Roach, Bishoo, Edwards, Sammy/Rampaul --- Roach (42) Rampaul (24) Best (18) Bishoo (19)

Bangaldesh: Razzak, Mortaza, rubel, shadhat/Shuvo --- Al Hasan (27) Sunny (12) RHossain (9) NHossain (3)

Guest wrote:Who has the best bowling attack in test cricket, i personally think its out of england and south africa, here are teams bowling attacks, what do you think?

India: Harbajhan, Kumar, Ishant, Zaheer /Sreesanth/Ojha

South Africa: Steyn, Morkel, Tsotsobe, harris/Tahir

England: Swann, Broad, Anderson, Tremlett

Sri Lanka: Herath/Mendis, Fernando, Welegedra, Lakmal

Australia: Johnson,Hauritz, Siddle, Hilfenauhs/ harris

Pakistan:Ajmal/Rehman, Gul, Riaz, Tanvir

New Zealand: Southee, Vettori, McKay, Bennett

West Indies: Roach, Bishoo, Edwards, Sammy/Rampaul

Bangaldesh: Razzak, Mortaza, rubel, shadhat/Shuvo

i think its out of england and south afrcia what do you think?

Australia potentially have the best attack now in World Cricket, as they have a healthy array of promising young quick bowlers (Pattinson, Cummins, McDermott, Starc) who can run through even the best batting lineups in test cricket whilst being complemented by the ever improving pace bowlers who played in the 2010/2011 ashes test series (Hilfenhaus, Sid Vicious, Harris, Johnson). Their spin bowling is also looking a lot healthier to what with the young spinner Nathan Lyon now established in their test team as their premier spinner. As for England, well I do worry that our pace bowling seems to have gone downhill since the 2010/2011 ashes test series. If England's premier strike bowler Jimmy Anderson gets injured, England are really right up the duff as we don't have anyone else in his class who looks ready to take over the huge mantle of being the sole wicket taker by swinging the new ball in the air with excellent consistent control and at a healthy enough pace to trouble and rush the batsman's stroke playing. As for England's other pace bowlers, Chris Tremlett is struggling to fully get over his injuries and sadly now looks like he will never play at a test level again, whilst Stuart Broad is struggling to rediscover his bowling form he managed to show V India in 2011, and looking at the cupboard of reserves, there doesn't seem to be any young exciting pace bowlers coming up through the county system who have the serious pace and gas to blast out and trouble the Australian and SA batting lineups which are currently the 2 best batting units in World cricket.

"Australia: Johnson,Hauritz, Siddle, Hilfenauhs/ harris"

It would be great if we could get Pattinson, Starc, Cummins on the park at the same time and have the option of Johnson, Siddle, Hilfenhaus to complete the 4-some... or any combination of those 6 depending on conditions, etc. Rhino has been struggling with injury... not sure how far down the pecking order he is now

As gboycottnut says too - we also have some very promising bowlers with the likes of McDermott, Cutting and others.

SA, apart from Steyn, Morkel and Philander seems a bit thin in comparison but maybe they have other options I'm not aware of.

Pakistan always produce world class pace and spin bowlers. Judging from their recent efforts in India they seem to have some excellent options in Junaid, Gul, Irfan as well as Ajmal, Rehman, Hafeez. Lucky for the rest of us the spot fixers Asif and Amir are currently unavailable.

Linebreaker wrote:"Australia: Johnson,Hauritz, Siddle, Hilfenauhs/ harris"

It would be great if we could get Pattinson, Starc, Cummins on the park at the same time and have the option of Johnson, Siddle, Hilfenhaus to complete the 4-some... or any combination of those 6 depending on conditions, etc. Rhino has been struggling with injury... not sure how far down the pecking order he is now

As gboycottnut says too - we also have some very promising bowlers with the likes of McDermott, Cutting and others.

SA, apart from Steyn, Morkel and Philander seems a bit thin in comparison but maybe they have other options I'm not aware of.

Pakistan always produce world class pace and spin bowlers. Judging from their recent efforts in India they seem to have some excellent options in Junaid, Gul, Irfan as well as Ajmal, Rehman, Hafeez. Lucky for the rest of us the spot fixers Asif and Amir are currently unavailable.

SA have 2 young quicks in their test squad at present in Wayne Parnell and Merchant de Lange. De Lange in particular has the same sort of express pace and gas to blast out the best batting units, similar to the pace at which the young Aussie speedsters have at present.

Chris Morris of the Lions is a promising bowler, he averages 25 with a strike rate of 47 in 29 first class games, he has been on fire this year.

Gerhardus Viljoen is only 23 years old, has an average of 27, strike rate of 44 and has taken 174 wickets in 47 matches.

Then Marchant de Lange.

There are a few U19's but they still need to play some first class cricket

Marchant de Lange was the one I was thinking of.

Good start in Cape Town with Philander striking twice early.

Biltong wrote: Chris Morris of the Lions is a promising bowler, he averages 25 with a strike rate of 47 in 29 first class games, he has been on fire this year.

Gerhardus Viljoen is only 23 years old, has an average of 27, strike rate of 44 and has taken 174 wickets in 47 matches.

Then Marchant de Lange.

There are a few U19's but they still need to play some first class cricket

South Africa have always produced young fast bowlers who have that express raw pace at an early age, as their wickets suit and rewards that type of bowling. In the 80's there was Corrie Van Zyl who was right up there along with his Free State teammate Allan Donald for raw pace as a fast bowler. In the 90's there were a variety of young quicks like Steven Jack, Brett Schultz, Shaun Pollock, Makhaya Ntini and David Terbrugge. And during the new millennium decade there were guys like M. Ngam and M. Zondeki before the current crop of Morne Steyn and Morne Morkel arrived onto the test scene.

Jetty wrote:

Eighteen months on..... (wickets in brackets)

India: Harbajhan, Kumar, Ishant, Zaheer /Sreesanth/Ojha ---Ashwin (63) Ohja (53) Yadav (32) ZKhan (22)

South Africa: Steyn, Morkel, Tsotsobe, harris/Tahir --- Philander (67) Steyn (61) Morkel (51) Peterson (6)

England: Swann, Broad, Anderson, Tremlett --- Swann (70) Anderson (62) Broad (58) Finn (20)

Sri Lanka: Herath/Mendis, Fernando, Welegedra, Lakmal --- Herath (95) Welegedara (35) Randiv (29) Eranga (15)

Australia: Johnson,Hauritz, Siddle, Hilfenauhs/ harris --- Siddle (64) Lyon (59) Hilfenhaus (44) Pattinson (31)

Pakistan:Ajmal/Rehman, Gul, Riaz, Tanvir --- Ajmal (72) Rehman (41) Gul (33) JKhan (27)

New Zealand: Southee, Vettori, McKay, Bennett --- Bracewell (42) Martin (31) Southee (30) Vettori (15)

West Indies: Roach, Bishoo, Edwards, Sammy/Rampaul --- Roach (42) Rampaul (24) Best (18) Bishoo (19)

Bangaldesh: Razzak, Mortaza, rubel, shadhat/Shuvo --- Al Hasan (27) Sunny (12) RHossain (9) NHossain (3)

Interesting to see 18 months on that the most stable attacks have been more succesful. With the exception of Australia suddenly blooding Cummins, Pattinson and Starc. Not sure whether that is a advertisement for or against rotation thinking about it... Looking at the list like that does bring the spinners success into relief from the last 18 months though - Herath (95), Ajmal (72), Swann (70), Ashwin (63), Lyon (59) and Ojha (53) all with over 50 wickets.