Raw Results/Discussion thread **Spoilers**

[Samo]

SAN JOSE — With only six days to go before WWE Champion John Cena faces WWE Champion CM Punk for the Undisputed WWE Championship at SummerSlam, Triple H made it clear that there will be only one titleholder at the end of the night. The lengths WWE’s new COO went to tonight in order to guarantee a fair outcome shocked the entire WWE Universe.

WWE Champion John Cena and WWE Champion CM Punk signed the contract for their Undisputed WWE Title Match (WATCH | PHOTOS)
The WWE Universe expected a tense confrontation in this contract signing and that’s exactly what they got. Mediated by Triple H and WWE Executive Vice President of Talent Relations John Laurinaitis, the summit started off ugly when CM Punk showed a video of The Rock bashing John Cena on Facebook. Tearing The Champ’s catchphrases and clothing to shreds, The Great One made a hilarious mockery of the powerful Superstar.

It was a damning monologue, but one Cena took in stride. After all, The Champ realized some people may have a problem with him, but he’s always been more concerned with the fans that are in his corner. Since 2002, the WWE Champion has been a proud and hardworking Superstar who gives every bit of his energy to positively representing the company. And while Cena was busting his hump, Punk was off complaining that he didn’t get fair treatment.

It was a strong argument that Triple H respected, but The Second City Saint was quick to strike back. Accusing The Champ of being a failed bodybuilder who settled for a career as a sports-entertainer, Punk claimed that he worked harder to get to where he is than Cena ever could. On Sunday, The Straight Edge Superstar would prove this by beating his rival in the center of the ring.

Undeterred, Cena made it clear that if Punk fails on Sunday he’ll be nothing more than a one hit wonder. With tensions now at a boil, both Superstars agreed that the talking had gone on long enough and stood face-to-face. But when Punk took a swing at The Champ, he connected with Mr. Laurinaitis instead. It was a melee from there with Punk and Cena brawling in the ring while the COO attempted to pull them apart.

When The Game finally got some order, the tattooed titleholder stood on the outside of the ring looking in at Triple H and The Champ. In that unique moment, there were two WWE Champions. Come Sunday, there will be only one.

R-Truth def. John Morrison (WATCH | PHOTOS)
After spending more than three months on the sidelines with a serious neck injury, John Morrison finally had the opportunity to go one-on-one with the man who put him there — R-Truth.

Looking to get a receipt on the dangerous Superstar, The Guru of Greatness came at Truth with a flurry of unpredictable offense — even leaping out of the ring onto his opponent. It was a thrilling effort from Morrison, but JoMo is clearly still trying to find his feet following his injury. By targeting the neck, Truth was able to debilitate his adversary and win the bout.

Alex Riley def. United States Champion Dolph Ziggler by Disqualification (WATCH | PHOTOS)
Some guys just don’t know how to take criticism. Furious with Alex Riley’s suggestion that he drop Vickie Guerrero and succeed on his own merit, Dolph Ziggler was ready to make A-Ry regret his remarks tonight. Bringing the fight to Riley, the brash Superstar seemed destined for victory, but Vickie interfered in the action before either man could triumph.

The loudmouth’s intrusion led to the official giving Riley the win via disqualification. Clearly irritated with the loss, Ziggler bickered with his associate after the bout before the cougar stormed away from the ring in a rage.

Beth Phoenix def. Eve (WATCH | PHOTOS)
Last Monday night, Beth Phoenix shocked the WWE Universe when she brutalized Divas Champion Kelly Kelly after winning a battle royal to become the No. 1 contender to the beauty’s title. Tonight, she made it clear that the attack was no accident.

After smashing the talented Eve, The Glamazon grabbed the microphone and again stated that the era of pretty Divas dominating WWE is over. Yet, just as Beth made her way to the locker room, she was cracked out of nowhere by a fiery Kelly Kelly.

Not one to be intimidated, the gorgeous competitor is definitely ready for Sunday’s showdown with the powerful Glamazon.

WWE Champion CM Punk def. Alberto Del Rio (WATCH | PHOTOS)
Irate, but unsurprised by Triple H’s announcement earlier in the evening, CM Punk stated that the COO would be wise to stay out of his way at SummerSlam. But, for now, The Straight Edge Superstar was focused on an immediate challenge — Alberto Del Rio.

Following Cena’s victory over Swagger, Punk knew he had to come up big in his match against The Mexican Aristocrat. After all, how would it look if the controversial competitor was beaten mere days before the biggest bout of his career? Rising to the occasion, Punk was vicious against the Money in the Bank winner, picking Del Rio apart with blistering strikes before putting him to bed with the Go To Sleep. If Cena sent Punk a message before, “the voice of the voiceless” responded here.

The Miz def. Kofi Kingston (WATCH | PHOTOS)
What was supposed to be a rematch between Rey Mysterio and The Miz quickly spiraled out of control when The Awesome One brutally attacked his rival before Mysterio even had a chance to enter the ring. (WATCH) It was an audacious assault, but The Miz didn’t have much time to gloat as Triple H immediately sent word that the smug Superstar would now face Kofi Kingston.

Before The Cleveland Screamer could protest, The Dreadlocked Dynamo launched himself at his opponent, battering The Miz with his patented controlled frenzy. The rapid attack was nearly too much for the former WWE Champion to handle, but the devious Superstar survived, nailing the Skull-Crushing Finale out of nowhere for the win.

WWE Champion John Cena def. Jack Swagger (WATCH | PHOTOS)
John Cena isn’t the type of competitor who cracks under pressure. Moments after trading strong words with the special guest referee in his Undisputed WWE Championship Match against CM Punk at SummerSlam, The Champ had to lock up with the always dangerous Jack Swagger.

A standout collegiate wrestler and former World Heavyweight Champion, “The All-American American” is not a Superstar to be taken lightly, but Cena didn’t let his opponent’s pedigree intimidate him. Battering the big man before putting him down with an Attitude Adjustment, the West Newbury, Mass.-native sent a clear message to both Punk and Triple H — The Champ is here.

Triple H announced a special guest referee for the SummerSlam main event (WATCH | PHOTOS)
With only six days to go before one of the most important nights in WWE history, Triple H dropped another bomb on the WWE Universe — the Undisputed WWE Championship Match between WWE Champion John Cena and WWE Champion CM Punk will have a special guest referee.

Believing that a bout of this magnitude is too important to risk outside interference or underhanded maneuvers, WWE’s Chief Operating Officer revealed that he’s enlisted the help of the one man he knows who can get the job done right — himself.

As if that wasn’t enough to stir up the WWE Universe, Triple H then announced that Cena and Punk will sign their SummerSlam contract tonight.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems like a decent enough show. Trust Trips to put himself in the spotlight. Although this does open the door for a heel turn from somewhere.

[Samo]

Also, the contract signing promo at the end was amazing. Brilliant performances by everyone involved.

[crippledtart]

I am so sick of worked shoot references.

I'm guessing this leads to a heel turn by Triple H. The fun never stops.

[Guest]

Did they announce any more matches for Summerslam? What's the card looking like?

HHH to cost Cena me thinks

[psycho-gooner]

Amazing promo's by all those involved

[Guest]

I reckon the other way. HHH to nail punk with the pedigree after he's just hit cent with a gts and then he puts cent over punk for the win

[ADMIN]

The heavy rumour is that HHH will face Punk at Mania so it leans strongly towards HHH costing Punk the match and turning heel.

[Guest]

I was thinking a quicker heel turn, and done by costing Cena the match at Summerslam. Didn't know about the plans for Punk v HHH at Mania.

[crippledtart]

The heavy rumour is that HHH will face Punk at Mania so it leans strongly towards HHH costing Punk the match and turning heel.

I'm not even sure who the heel would be if Triple H turned on Punk. He's certainly been trying to undermine Punk for the last couple of weeks and present himself as the toughest and coolest man in wrestling ever.

[Beer]

It could go either way, but my money is on HHH costing Punk to further boost the 'anti-hero' tag. It would give ADR more rub beating Cena and wouldn't bury Punk to have him screwed,

[Holymiky]

Y I man from memory it's something like this.

Cena vs punk for the title

Orton vs Christian for the WHC

Sheamus vs Mark Henry

I think Ziggler vs Riley is confirmed

Maybe Beth Pheonix vs Kelly Kelly

Oh and Barrett vs Bryan??

Not sure on others.

[crippledtart]

I think the part of the promo where Cena talked about upping his workrate and improving his heel persona might be the worst part of any promo I've ever seen.

I really don't know what to make of the end segment. For the first 10 minutes or so it's just a bunch of grown men arguing like teenage girls, throwing in needless worked shoot comments. Nobody came across as sympathetic at all. Punk was the only one who seemed in any way likeable; Cena and Triple H were both very patronising and smug. But even Punk sounded like he was desperately reaching around for insults at times. In fact for the second week running it definitely seemed like Triple H was attempting to bigfoot Punk and undermine his character.

Then suddenly in the last 5 minutes it became a very well written angle, with both wrestlers talking about the importance of winning and losing, before the physical altercation and the question marks about Triple H's neutrality as referee.

I think that, thanks to the ending, it should help the Summerslam buyrate. But I really wish they would move away from insider references and I wish they would realise how much damage is done when the central babyface characters are all pointing out how hypocritical each other are.

[sodhat]

I can't help but think too much effort is going into getting HHH over now. He can be involved, yes, but it seems like the focus is shifting to him and he is hogging the spotlight in classic fashion.

The focus for me should be on Cena vs Punk and the different parts of the audience they represent. HHH muddies the waters and inevitably gets his shots off at Punk and Cena to make him look the greatest wrestler ever that even now would destroy them both.

HHH/Punk at Mania would be a natural choice -- but I thought it was Taker vs HHH?

[liverbnz]

I think HHH/Taker for next year's mania was pure rumour built of HHH's post mania 27 speech. I for one really hope it doesn't happen.

[HitmanOwl]

The whole angle is to put triple h over. I enjoyed last nights raw and the end segment was brilliant.

[BloscarPit09-ASK_HIM]

Personally, I'd rather see HHH screw Punk than screw Cena, as surely turning Punk back heel again would be a backwards step?

[JoshSansom]

Personally, I'd rather see HHH screw Punk than screw Cena, as surely turning Punk back heel again would be a backwards step?

Don't think that HHH will side with either of them as they are both faces in this. One of them to win and then HHH to screw them by siding with a cashing-in ADR would be my bet

[crippledtart]

It doesn't seem to me like WWE is trying to portray Punk as a babyface. Triple H in particular is constantly undercutting his credibility with the fans, and both he and Cena have referenced Punk coming back for more money.

[HitmanOwl]

My money is on triple h screwing cena and revealing that him and punk was in cohoots all along.

[Kay Fabe]

The WWE are definitely portraying Punk as a face otherwise they wouldn't allow him to use material that would appeal to the fans, some of the stuff Cena said was awful though. He is a 10/11 time World Champion, he should believe his worksate is through the roof

[Beer]

The WWE are definitely portraying Punk as a face otherwise they wouldn't allow him to use material that would appeal to the fans, some of the stuff Cena said was awful though. He is a 10/11 time World Champion, he should believe his worksate is through the roof

What happens though, if the crowd are seriously pro Cena and the plan is to have HHH bury Punk?

[Holymiky]

I think they are trying to portray him as a usual heel character but because he also gets cheered it is hard to tell.

[Kay Fabe]

I think they are trying to portray him as the bad guy on the face of it knowing that it will get him more cheers, KB i'm not sure what you mean Bud

[crippledtart]

I imagine that most of the "marks", so to speak, are watching Raw and wondering why on earth anyone would cheer for Punk.

He's never actually been portrayed as doing anything heroic or valiant. He's just popular with the insider crowd. It's not enough. If you're planning to make someone a main event babyface, you have to portray them as acting honourably. WWE is not doing that. They are giving him the cool lines that make the smarks go "oooh", but they aren't portraying him as a babyface within the confines and the context of the story they are telling.

[Kay Fabe]

He's sticking it to the establishment though Crips, the yanks eat that up, from Ali to John Rambo to Steve Austin, they love that kind of character and thats exactly the way Punk is being portrayed, I also think its high time that the IWC are stopped being seen as some kind of secluded minority, I'd be willing to wager that at least half of any RAW audiance use the internet for Wrestling

[crippledtart]

I do think the notion of an Internet Wrestling Community is outdated; you're talking about tens of thousands of people, not just a couple of dozen at a coffee morning.

But, I do think it's fair to say that probably more than 90% of WWE's audience doesn't regularly use insider websites.

Of all the people I have ever known who liked wrestling, most of them wouldn't have any idea what terms like face, heel, selling, shoot, etc mean.

I think the reason people boo Cena isn't because they are "smarks", but because to most grown men he is obviously a) a dork and b) marketed to women and children.

[HitmanOwl]

Ive gained a lot of respect for cena over the last month or so,from what I seen in my t.v screens but anyone prior to that defending on what u seen on your t.v screen is a john cena fanboy.

By referencing the dirt sheets internet fan bases etc etc is letting them 'smarks' know they are listening. Who would have thought cena would say "5 moves of doom" or "modern day hulk hogan". I was quite surprised by it.


Would you say there was more adults than kids in the wwe audience?

[NickisBHAFC]

Fantastic promo at the end. A personal favriote at the end was when Punk mentiond about the releases of Kozlov, DH Smith and Chris Masters. Another hint at the voice of the voiceless

I am so unsure about sunday if i am going to fork out for that £14:95 the card just doesnt look strong enough. But i will be willing to watch it on my laptop (anyone know any streams)

[HitmanOwl]

Well apart from the build to punk/cena it ain't been that great. No new matches announced last night but obviously we know there will be more.

To little time between the ppv's imo.

[Kay Fabe]

You could be right as I don't know anyone 'in real life' who use dirts or forums, on the other hand I'd never tell anyone i use them so who knows, you're bang on the money with Cena though

[Holymiky]

Fantastic promo at the end. A personal favriote at the end was when Punk mentiond about the releases of Kozlov, DH Smith and Chris Masters. Another hint at the voice of the voiceless

I am so unsure about sunday if i am going to fork out for that £14:95 the card just doesnt look strong enough. But i will be willing to watch it on my laptop (anyone know any streams)

For PPVs I use www.desirulez.net mate.

Also I don't think I've ever heard any promo on WWE at least that contains the word Heel either, was interesting to hear Cena use it.

[HitmanOwl]

Prob because people don't want there reputation damaged. I know about 3 people who watch it in real life but don't fully understand it. Casual fan I guess.

I'm not ashamed. I like boxing,football,f1,mma and loads of other sports. People are ignorant towards the product for the lack of understanding.

[BloscarPit09-ASK_HIM]

I imagine that most of the "marks", so to speak, are watching Raw and wondering why on earth anyone would cheer for Punk.

He's never actually been portrayed as doing anything heroic or valiant. He's just popular with the insider crowd. It's not enough. If you're planning to make someone a main event babyface, you have to portray them as acting honourably. WWE is not doing that. They are giving him the cool lines that make the smarks go "oooh", but they aren't portraying him as a babyface within the confines and the context of the story they are telling.

So when exactly was Stone Cold Steve Austin portrayed as acting honourably? And he's one of the most popular guys in the history of the business. Randy Orton, also. Why would it be different for Punk?

[MIG]

I am so sick of worked shoot references.

I'm guessing this leads to a heel turn by Triple H. The fun never stops.

I can't believe how anyone can be dissapointed with this. The promo was amazing, so capitivating. I think it makes it more interesting that they use worked shoot references and the fact that you can barely work out who is playing face or heel adds to it. This is like no rivalry I can remember. Great work by all involved especially Punk and Cena imo. Cena has impressed me more and more lately.

PS - Loved the look on Cena's face when Punk mentioned what he'd said after winning the ECW title, he actually looked embarassed!

[Adam D]

you can barely work out who is playing face or heel adds to it. This is like no rivalry I can remember.

You obviously havent watched TNA

[crippledtart]

I imagine that most of the "marks", so to speak, are watching Raw and wondering why on earth anyone would cheer for Punk.

He's never actually been portrayed as doing anything heroic or valiant. He's just popular with the insider crowd. It's not enough. If you're planning to make someone a main event babyface, you have to portray them as acting honourably. WWE is not doing that. They are giving him the cool lines that make the smarks go "oooh", but they aren't portraying him as a babyface within the confines and the context of the story they are telling.

So when exactly was Stone Cold Steve Austin portrayed as acting honourably? And he's one of the most popular guys in the history of the business. Randy Orton, also. Why would it be different for Punk?

The greatest misconception about Austin is that he was a tweener who acted without honour. Austin did act honourably and was a complete babyface. He may have used foul language, rude gestures, drank beer, didn't need a good reason to fight, etc but he always had a strong moral fibre during his main event run from WM13 to WM17. He stood up for what he believed in, didn't buckle down to the corrupt boss (even when it would have been for his own good. Remember the "easy way or the hard way" promo), fought his own battles and he only went after those who disrespected him. He may have been dressed up as an anti-hero, but he was the archetypal babyface.

He did later become a parody of that act, and continues to be, but his big money late 90s run was all about being an honourable babyface.

As for Orton, I think the reason he has struggled to draw as a babyface is exactly because he still has so many of the traits that made him a good heel. He gets a superstar reaction in arenas but it hasn't translated at all to TV ratings and PPV buys, so I would say he's failing as a babyface because the audience hasn't yet been convinced to invest in him emotionally.

[MIG]

you can barely work out who is playing face or heel adds to it. This is like no rivalry I can remember.

You obviously havent watched TNA

I actually haven't watched TNA though so it makes sense. I've read what you lot have been saying about it though.

[crippledtart]

you can barely work out who is playing face or heel adds to it. This is like no rivalry I can remember.

You obviously havent watched TNA

This is exactly my reaction. The storyline is getting more and more like something TNA would do. You need to have established babyfaces and heels to make money. This is perhaps the main reason - of all the many reasons - why TNA has never made money.

WWE currently has three sort-of babyfaces talking in insider gibberish that flies over most of the audience's heads, and pointing out the flaws in each others' characters. I don't think you should be pointing out the flaws in babyfaces' characters full stop, but especially not the ones that have nothing to do with the context of the programme.

For example, what is it exactly within the confines of WWE storytelling that makes Cena phony? His entire character is about being true to himself. Regardless of the fact that he is a dork, I don't remember the character of John Cena ever being presented as phony.

I think this is the major problem. The majority of the audience isn't getting any explanation of why the characters are saying these things about each other. So it doesn't make sense. And that's why WWE has lost six figures from its audience every week for the past four weeks. Viewers are feeling excluded. They can watch every minute of WWE programming and visit WWE.com every day and still feel left out. And there is nobody they can get behind, because nobody is acting with a great deal of honour. As good as I thought the last five minutes of Raw were, they were preceeded by ten minutes of grown men making snide digs at each other.

I think it's unsustainable and it will fail, and CM Punk will be blamed for it internally whereas the problem is actually that WWE has totally lost touch with how to tell a story.

[MIG]

I still don't see what the problem is. Its not like every feud going in WWE is like this. Whats wrong with just one feud having the lines blurred? For someone who doesn't watch TNA and is not used to it, its quite refreshing.

[crippledtart]

I still don't see what the problem is. Its not like every feud going in WWE is like this. Whats wrong with just one feud having the lines blurred? For someone who doesn't watch TNA and is not used to it, its quite refreshing.

Well, it only takes one character in a film to turn to the camera and say "this is all fake, by the way" to shatter the suspension of disbelief.

Like I said, I think the problem is that none of us represents the casual fan. I'm not saying I don't enjoy certain aspects of the feud, but what I enjoy shouldn't be WWE's priority!

I think far more money can be made if what happens on-screen is a world in and of itself, just like any scripted drama.

[MIG]

I think far more money can be made if what happens on-screen is a world in and of itself, just like any scripted drama.

With the way things are nowdays with everything and everyone so accessable (twitter just one example) I think this is just less likely now.

[crippledtart]

I think far more money can be made if what happens on-screen is a world in and of itself, just like any scripted drama.

With the way things are nowdays with everything and everyone so accessable (twitter just one example) I think this is just less likely now.

It doesn't happen in any other scripted drama except wrestling. I don't see why wrestling should be any different than, say, Eastenders. People know that Eastenders isn't real and the people are all actors (and I'm sure they've got twitter accounts too). It doesn't mean that Eastenders should entail worked shoot storylines. In fact that would be a crazy idea!

[MIG]

I don't see why wrestling should be the same as Eastenders!!!
Yes they both use scripts but apart from that they are worlds apart.
There is a much thinner line between the wrestlers characters and the real person than there is for an actor. Wrestlers are putting their bodies on the line week in week out so its hard not to think of them as real people from time to time.
That being said I do also see your point, I'm not 100% sure its the way they should be going about it. But I'm certainly enjoying it!

[HitmanOwl]

The past 6 weeks has been more enjoyable than the last 5 years combined. That's all I care about,what's viewing numbers got to do with me?

It all comes back to wwe not being able to create superstars.

[crippledtart]

The past 6 weeks has been more enjoyable than the last 5 years combined. That's all I care about,what's viewing numbers got to do with me?

It all comes back to wwe not being able to create superstars.

Well, bad viewing figures will almost certainly lead to a change of course, so it's going to affect you.

I think they will think twice about venturing back to the same territory again once this storyline is wrapped up. Vince McMahon has always been very hesitant to try this kind of storyline and now he will feel justified in his stance.

I do agree with you that the company has lost its ability to create stars. Although I think that is part of the reason they went down the worked shoot route; you can't have it both ways!

Personally, as much as I enjoy a good product my main interest is what makes the most sound business sense (often the two are in synch anyway), hence why I am so disappointed they chose to take this path rather than pushing Punk the old-fashioned way. Which brings us back to their inability to create stars. Punk could have been a star in any promotion in any era. If WWE drops the ball on him it reflects far more on WWE than Punk.

[Kay Fabe]

I totally disagree with the majority of your ideals regarding this feud mate and I also think its a flawed view point to compare it to Eastenders or any other soap opera, for a start Eastenders or any other soap isn't filmed live infront of paying fans who are encouraged to cheer for their favourites, live fan reaction has a massive influence on the direction a Wrestling character will go in, if 15,000 fans where cheering everything Phil Mitchell said Eastenders would make him a good guy, Pro Wrestlers, particularly those on TV don't have the luxuary of character protection that soap actors do.

As for John Cena being a phony, (my Kayfabe answer to this is) Cena was a badass rapper, he had swagger and attitude, thats who he said he was and thats what he said he stood for, slowly but surely he has been moulded into what the WWE machine want him to be, he is no longer true to himself or his roots and he is so swamped in what the office want he can't see it for himself

[JoshSansom]

As for John Cena being a phony, (my Kayfabe answer to this is) Cena was a badass rapper, he had swagger and attitude, thats who he said he was and thats what he said he stood for, slowly but surely he has been moulded into what the WWE machine want him to be, he is no longer true to himself or his roots and he is so swamped in what the office want he can't see it for himself

The problem is though that Punk didn't make this point clear enough. If he had said that, or words to that effect, then it would have been a legitimate comment but they can't just make open ended digs and expect the audience to get out of it the meaning that the WWE would like! Would be interesting to know if this was a scripted promo or off the cuff from Punk.

In terms of the general storyline direction, my hope is that Summerslam is going to reveal a more traditional storyline and the baton will be picked up. At the moment it just doesn't feel right and the anticipation for SS is more to do with what might happen than what is happening. That is the key issue with TNA - they keep trying to hook viewers with what will happen next rather than what is happening now.

A little bit of intrigue is good, but essentially the storyline has to carry itself now, particularly going into the second biggest PPV of the year.

The worked angles are good and I am enjoying them but there are too many as far as I am concerned. Punk's original promo alone would have been great, they didn't need to continue much further with it than they did. Audience fans would have felt that it was a WOW moment without feeling that they were being told about the action behind the curtain. The action should happen in the ring instead.

This whole thing reminds me of Alan Shearer for Newcastle manager... all the fans were cheering for it so the chairman went "fine, Shearer for boss, if it succeeds I look great and if it fails they will shut up about it and stop irritating me."

Punk carrying the can will depend on the extent to which he was the instigator of the storyline - if he was then he will carry the can, though if he wasn't then I think that he will be protected by the fact that HHH and SuperCena were involved as well.

[Kay Fabe]

The storyline does carry itself, its been unconventional due to Punk 'leaving' in the immediate aftermath of MitB, the whole point of this storyline, and lets remember it is only a storyline is that Punk feels aggrieved at how certain guys have been handed countless opportunities while he the self professed best in the World has been overlooked, in kayfabe terms he has a legitimate point

[Mr H]

Crips you are a very hard man to please. I've never come across someone so negative and critical, its sometimes very hard to read and take seriously mate. Compared to what we were being served up prior to this angle, it makes me wonder what some people really expect. I 100% disagree with your opinions on this thread, and think its probably time you gave up on pro wrestling if this angle hasn't captivated you. Sorry bud, its just laughable to read sometimes.

[BloscarPit09-ASK_HIM]

I imagine that most of the "marks", so to speak, are watching Raw and wondering why on earth anyone would cheer for Punk.

He's never actually been portrayed as doing anything heroic or valiant. He's just popular with the insider crowd. It's not enough. If you're planning to make someone a main event babyface, you have to portray them as acting honourably. WWE is not doing that. They are giving him the cool lines that make the smarks go "oooh", but they aren't portraying him as a babyface within the confines and the context of the story they are telling.

So when exactly was Stone Cold Steve Austin portrayed as acting honourably? And he's one of the most popular guys in the history of the business. Randy Orton, also. Why would it be different for Punk?

The greatest misconception about Austin is that he was a tweener who acted without honour. Austin did act honourably and was a complete babyface. He may have used foul language, rude gestures, drank beer, didn't need a good reason to fight, etc but he always had a strong moral fibre during his main event run from WM13 to WM17. He stood up for what he believed in, didn't buckle down to the corrupt boss (even when it would have been for his own good. Remember the "easy way or the hard way" promo), fought his own battles and he only went after those who disrespected him. He may have been dressed up as an anti-hero, but he was the archetypal babyface.

He did later become a parody of that act, and continues to be, but his big money late 90s run was all about being an honourable babyface.

As for Orton, I think the reason he has struggled to draw as a babyface is exactly because he still has so many of the traits that made him a good heel. He gets a superstar reaction in arenas but it hasn't translated at all to TV ratings and PPV buys, so I would say he's failing as a babyface because the audience hasn't yet been convinced to invest in him emotionally.

I do see what you mean crips, but surely what Austin did back then is what Punk's doing now? Saying what he thinks, standing up to a corrupt boss, 'voice of the voiceless', etc. all makes him come across as a guy with a fair bit of moral fibre himself. Punk, in that sense, is also the ultimate babyface- standing up for the honour and tradition of proffessional wrestling. This was particularly shown when Vince tried to screw Punk at MitB- the popular underdog having the odds stacked against him. When you look at it like that, Punk is as much a face now as Austin was then. I do think you may be correct about Orton however.

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