RWC`s,Drop Goals and every thing

Hi,I have been thinking about the RWC,and recently got into a heated debate with a gentlemen who supports the Boks.
My aversion to RWCs is well known,because of the adverse effect it has on down rating other comps,S15,3Ns,6Ns,etc.
Teams hiding players or whole squads in the name of the RWC,or team re-building for it,because in my view it cheapens
"THE SHIRT",in days gone by many great players made sacrifices finacially to earn one,not to mention the demoralization
of players used as tackling dummies in a practise match for a top side.Also I consider the thought that every member
of a RWC winning squad is Great,and any player that has`nt won one isn`t.
Some here INCORRECTLY,perceive that I consider the Boks inferior to the All Blacks,man for man they are the equal
of anyone.At Home [outside RWCs] they are very difficult to beat but since the demise of Tours they have become
more vulnerable.
Tours mean`t the Home side had all the advantages,Ball[before it became standard]playing conditions,crowd support
and the inevitable attrition.Touring sides were`nt facing England,Wales,Scotland,BOTH Irelands,France ,Australia,
South Africa,or New Zealand you were playing a Nation,28-32 match tours explain why few Tourists were successful
Injuries affected both the 2005,and 2009 Lions Tours,plus key players for other tours due to injury.
Such is my respect for Bok rugby,although Head to Head by the record the All Blacks lead the gap is only 6%,and
The Boks or any SA based S15 side I expect a Home win,for some here the RWC is the ultimate test,but for me ANY
test match matters.You don`t throw it by playing a weak team or targetting teams thats how you get hurt.
Take a team like Argentina, Samoa, Fiji,Tonga, Italy,and maybe Japan this year,you could lose in a tight group
groups C and D look that sloppinesscould mean early exit.
Like it or not there has become a formula for a win ,defence,try nothing flash kick goals,the humble Drop
Goal is now the chief weapon,.England with Johnnie Wilkinson,Stephen Larkham for the Wallabies,and many League .
converts.
The Boks,and France,Argentina have all been great Drop kick nations,NZ in the days of Grant Fox, Tony Brown, Ross Brown,
Dave trevathan,Mark Nichols,Andrew Merthens,Frano Botica,Mac Here wini,Don Clarke,Bruce Watt was a weapon of
oppertunity.
Since 2000 the drop has gone out of the NZ game,where sevens style play,OZ to a certain extent too coaches say
has taken over.France could always play that way if they chose.Wales do it to a lesser extent,Ireland and Scotland
still use them.
It surprised some people that Dan Carter is only credited with 3 Drop goals at test level,that does`nt make him inferior
The Great Welsh fly half never attempted one in his whole career,considering it a waste of possession.I actually
wrote on one occassion on old 606 If Dan Carter could do them because I never saw him attempt it.
The mind set of overcoaching ,and slavish adherence to gameplans when not working is stupid with the exceptions of 1987
and perhaps 1991 negative Rugby has become Winning Rugby.The Boks of all the sides have asorbed this lesson best.
In a RWC when you`re in the Red Zone score tries,if you can`t score by whatever means you can in 2007 rigid thinking
by an unexperienced Captain cost the All Blacks the game.IF you can`t win penalties or you have and the Ref .isn`t giving them
or tries,whats left the drop. It should`nt need a note from the bench to attempt one.Injuries to the specialists did`nt help
but SOMEONE should have attempted it.I`m sure England,France or the Boks would have attempted one.
Good to see Dan the Man has started using them perhaps he or my mate Ted has been reading my 606 Post!!!
Best wishes to who ever wins the RWC,probably the Boks again they seem best equipped,doubt it will be NZ,but that does`nt
worry me me we`ve plenty of practice getting over it.

The boks due to their "injury" list or "secret training" camp is like a pot of slowly building curry. At this point no one knows whether it will be a successful curry or whether it will boil over.

The problem is the Head Chef is PDV.

Mixing the salt and pepper is not his concern, as they have been selected and are pretty much set in stone. The question is will he add a little spice to his curry and make it the most successful meal to be dished at the RWC.

Hi,Biltong would you rather win the RWC,and maybe get PDV back or lose
it and getting him dumped.
Or the worst of both rules lose the RWC and keep him too.

When we went back into international sport, most of us feared the worst, and expected our sport to be totally dominated by politics. The ANC wanted to remove the springbok from all SA sport with immediate effect.

Bless Nelson Mandela who explained to them that integration of our society would not be possible if they alienated the minorty.

When we won our first RWC in 1995, I thought great at least we have one win before it is all going to the dogs.

When we won in 2007, I thought hell, what a bonus to have the Springboks on there a second time.

As the years have gone on, there is allways that threat that any time soon the Springbok will be gone forever of our jersey, and as is the case this RWC it is already moving to the sleave.

Having said all that is to merely show you that some of us realise interference wil eventually make a big impact on the springboks.

Losing tests these days are acceptable to the powers that be, because in between all of this their careers are more important to them, and keeping the politicians at bay.

I don't want PDV to remain coach, whatever needs to happen to get rid of him must.

But I need us to at least for the foreseeable future get back to winning ways, just so that the springbok can once again earn the respect and awe of their opponents.

The longer things carry on the way they are going, the less likely it is we'll ever do that again.

On the subject of drop goals

I have always taken the opinion that it is a skill and deserves the 3 points but over the last few years that opinion has changed to the point where I would welcome it being downgraded to 1 point like in league.

I guess it comes down to believing that , whilst it is a skill, should 2 drop goals really be worth more than a try.

It makes too much of a difference in my opinion. e.g. on Saturday Wales scored 3 tries to 2 and yet lost because of 2 drop goals by JW.

To me its too easy for a team to just get field position and knock over drop goals all day without the need to do the difficult thing of scoring tries. And I also find it a bit of an anti climax to a move.

SA will always be the Sprinboks no matter whether it's on your shirt or not. It's written somewhere they can't get to it. Inside every fan of rugby.

Hi, Biltong THe Boks at both Rugby Union and Cricket,were some of the best teams or players off all times.
You cannot blame the players,or individuals for being used by the political ends of the state.
When Fascism.Communism,Capitilism.Racism.Multi-culturalism,or Religon is used and sport included as a Propaganda Tool.
Most of the problems in the World today are down to The Fallout of Empires of many Nations,that are ancestors did.
We as individuals have no control of are past,what nation we are born into,religon etc.colour of our skin.
We live our lives,and adapt to our own circumstances,there is no right or wrong.All cats are grey in the dark,any ones opinion is as valid as mine
only an arrogant Bigot thinks otherwise.
Sadly these seem to get to the top,and rule our lives,a War was fought in the "Land of the Free" to abolish slavery,BUT go into the Southern States of that country to day .Then see if the Colour of your skin matters.
IF the colour of my skin is different to yours,and all the advantages of wealth and education being equal does that make you better than me?
Someone once said " I may not believe in what you say,but I will defend with my life the right for you to say it"
THAT applies to me too,I want to again see the best two sides in the world
tussling for world supremacy.
Unconstrained by politcal points.player quotas ,whatever,THE best man for the job gets it.
SORRY MODERATORS for the lecture,or history lesson put it down to the Senility of an Old Man and delete it if you wish.I hope you won`t because it will tel every one where i`m coming from LIVE and LET LIVE.

Im not a fan of drop goals in the modern game as i believe they are an resolutio fot teams that are inept at breaking the advantage line.
The 2003 and 1995 cups proved that. No tries.
I was a 10 and got many drop goals and spent hours into the dark often practising them.
Got a 60 m d. goal against ponsonby one time.
But after all that still dont rate its value in nz rugby.
Carter is doing them because everyone says he should and i dont think theyll end up winning us a match.
More theyll be like against oz. Useful. But not gamebreaking.

Hey Biltong

When you write about SA winning back the respect and awe of its opponents, I'm wondering something: SA are NZ's greatest foe and we hold you in the highest respect and always will. Do you think that other nations have less respect for you as a rugby nation than NZ? And if so how do you feel about it?

doctornickolas wrote:On the subject of drop goals
...
To me its too easy for a team to just get field position and knock over drop goals all day without the need to do the difficult thing of scoring tries. And I also find it a bit of an anti climax to a move.

It can happen but out of the hundreds or thousands of games played how many are decided only by drop goals?

They do occur on the big occasions yes, not least because teams will look to every possible method of scoring, but even on Saturday they accounted for only 6 out of the 23 points scored by England

Oh yeah - just saw Taylorman's post. There was a try each in 2003. Tuquri for Oz and Robinson for England. Given what the ref was like in 2003 you could hardly blame us for taking the decision on awarding a penalty away from him.

Hi disney, before we came back to international rugby we had a positive win ratio against evry nation, at that stage Ireland had only one win, Wales none, I think Scotland may have had two.

We were very proud of that record,there was a mutual respect and rivalry between us and you with no equal. Since our return it only took 4 years for the All Blacks to overtake us.

Wales have recorded a win against us when they opened Millenium Stadium, the Irish in recent years have recorded 3 home wins and Scotland 2.

England had a run of 7 wins against us. The AllBlacks recorded their first series win on SA soil in 1996. They have won three times as many Tri Nations titles.

The only note worthy things we achieved was to equal the 17 successive wins you guys had, three Tri Nation Trophies and two RWC trophies.

Now I do realise this is the modern era and many more factors influences the performances of team.

But to have losses vs teams that we hardly if ever lost to, having only won 3 out of every 10 matches vs the All Blacks ( admittedly it has improved in the last few years) does take away that air of dominance we once had.

NZ have under Graham Henry won 85% of their matches, we are sitting in 66% last time I checked since readmission.

I read articles from all over the world and I can see the awe and respect has dwindled. Even when I watch Re Union there is an air of for the want of a better word dismissiveness when they talk about the Boks.

How do I feel about it, I am not allowed to say it on the forum, but not happy at all