Sonny Boy Williams-a waste of time and effort

Sonny Boy Williams,Boxer,Rugby League,Rugby Union,highly talented player or very over rated take your pick.
Walked out on his League Contract to join Toulon,broke that in an effort to play for All Blacks in the RWC.
A season with Crusaders,with varying success,a few games for All Blacks mostly off the bench,has failed
to break up established Nonu /.Smith partnership and will if selected for RWC squad start from Bench.
Supposedly signed a further one year contract with Nzrfu,and the Blues post RWC,tonight it seems the
agreement is only verbal .That his agent is in talk with the Waratahs for next season,is there any point
in bothering to sign or try to sign him up .Seems he is prepared to follow the money and not commit to
NZ Rugby.From there point of view it is a waste of time IF he is not prepared to commit long term NZ
is I contend better of without him.

This has been going around for some time Alan, hence the nickname Money Bill Williams.
Maybe the case but up until now he has had to fit the Crusaders and AB cause (other than his boxing which was tolerated with free tickest to the coaching staff to keep an eye on him).
Yes he spouts on about loyalty and humility and does the opposite.
I can take him or leave him to be honest. Looks great at time and if he furthers the cause so be it, if he doesnt, see ya later.

Not worried about his presence or lack of it at all to be honest. Nonu will be feeling better at ease for it tough I'd like to see the pressure on him a little longer...

Jeez if they arent going to use him they couldve let England have him. He wouldve earnt more money and we have better boxing coaches here, look at what we did for young Tuilagi.

Won't affect all the little posters the women around here have without a jersey on given he doesnt know which one he's wearing...

It's not like you are struggling without him his shirt would look better on a player who's heart is in it.

Allen
i think we might have to wait a few more days on this one before we know what Sonny Bill is going to do. but I'm fairly confident in saying that by the end of 2013 he will be back in the NRL.
both he and Shontayne hape have done well to make major International rugby teams,and that is due to them doing a lot of hard work.
So far as his boxing is concerned I'd just like to see him keep his left glove up and tuck his chin.

I think he is a good player and offers NZ something different.... but to be honest I'd have Nonu in my team over him any day.

Nonu looks like the competition has done him good... he's hungry and wants that inside centre shirt bad. SBW loses a lot of posession, yes he opens the play a lot but its at a huge potential cost.

In SA the media treat him like Lomu... however in my view he doesn't deserve to be the great man's boot cleaner... there has never been a man like Lomu before or since... and probably never will be.

He is the only superstar the game has ever produced, in terms of his impact he is the greatest player ever to play the game.... a true gent to match.

SBW and his 1 year contracts will eventually dry up and he'll wish he kept loyal to one where he could have become a great player of his generation... instead he'll probably do a Gavin Henson.

To be fair to him. He did give up a bit of money to come to NZ.

Personally i think we are all being a little premature in our condemnation
or elevation of SBW. Hes had one season of NPC+S15 plus an autumn tour.
To be where he is at in his rugby development is quite an exceptional effort. If you watch him closely during games he is doin a lot more of the basics that a rugby player is required to do. Namely clearing out rucks, holding the ball up in the tackle, not pushing passes etc.
What Ma'a has done is really put the pressure back on SBW. Ma'a is a notoriously slow starter when he returns from the off season. In much the way Frank Bunce and Jo Stanley were. But once he puts on the ABs jersey
in June he is startin to hit his straps. The onus now is for SBW to lift his game. I would think this will happen over the next few weeks.
In Henry we trust!!!!

Cymroglan wrote:It's not like you are struggling without him his shirt would look better on a player who's heart is in it.

Yep Flutey wore his with pride

I think the SBW "rave" was initially created by the NZ media, as I said at the end of last year, he has not yet become great.

Whether he is going back to league, or are a mercenary, he is still a great athlete.

But Rugby union has a way of levelling players, there is less space and time than in rugby league, the work is harder allthough perhaps not faster.

So I reckon good luck to the man, he makes his own choices.

I think SBW just has bad people around him like Anthony Mundine who is filling his head full of garbage, like convincing him he is a talented boxer when he's clearly rubbish.

SBW is a superbly talented rugby player though who has the potential to be one of the best centres in the world.

I wouldn't condem him for trying to negotiate the best contract he can get from the NZRFU though, I mean thats only what the other players like Nonu have been doing. Heaslip and Sexton recently did the same with the IRFU.

I hope he stay in RU though because he is such a fantastic player and we haven't seen the best of him yet. I doubt he'd be welcomed back with open arms in the NRL either.

What's wrong with a guy following his dreams and exploiting his talent for as much money as possible in doing so?

He's shown he's not all about the money by coming back to follow an objective of playing for the ABs and in NZ...more than I can say for the likes of Carl Hayman or Nick Evans, Shontayne Hape or Rikki Flutey, Thomas Waldrom, ...

He may not be, at the moment, the world's best center but he's shown he can step up to the international level comfortably and has something original to contribute.

Anyone remember his contribution to the Crusader's reaching the final in the first place? a fine try against the Sharks and a clever off-load to set up a try for Fruean against the Stormers?

A lot of the Crusaders let themselves down in the final against the Reds, but lets not forget they'd just won two tough knock out games, flown to and from South Africa and hadn't played a home game all season. Including an excursion to old London town.

The guy hasn't had a start for the ABs yet, he will get his chance next week. I wouldn't write him off just yet.

Anthony Mundine is an incredibly devisive character. I dont particular like him (for the same reasons as everyone else), but what you notice is that while the general public and the media cant stand him, people that seem to actually know him (the rugby league players being the most commonly heard, but other B listers around Oz as well) really rave about him. They say he is generous, loyal and a free thinker and they give a lot of respect in contrast to what we offer him.

The influence he and Koder Nasser have on SBW and Cooper is obvious, but ultimately both are taking the Rugby equivalent of what Mundine does in boxing. They are staying as unattached from the institutions they work within as they can. Mundine promotes his own fights, and himself, and is worth a bomb because of it. He, SBW and Cooper are all taking the same risk which is perform constantly or next year will be a leaner pay packet. While i would love Cooper to be locked in for a few years to really get the benefit of any development, I think it is hard to criticise them for backing themselves against the risk that they will fail or their body falls apart.

GG my point is.i`m not against a man earning what his talents are worth,
BUT IF he is just going to flit around the world and not commit to a long term contract with NZRFU.Then develop some one else who will,otherwise you have a Gavin Henson.or Cipriani situation.
Where HE could have developed all his talents for his Country,but chooses money instead.
Carl Haymen had 40 odd caps so he`d paid his dues,Flutey was`nt good enough for Welligton let alone NZ,Hape I don`t rate nor do many other Englishmen.
Nick Evans is like every other Flyhalf walking in Dan Carters shadow considered not good enough,thesame thinghappened here with Johnny Wilkinson.
IF you are a class act,and NICK EVANS WAS,its down to the selectors to encourage him to stay by giving him game time.
Neither of the Pink Panthers were obviously better than the AB incumbents or likely replacements.at loose forward.

boomeranga wrote:Anthony Mundine is an incredibly devisive character. I dont particular like him (for the same reasons as everyone else), but what you notice is that while the general public and the media cant stand him, people that seem to actually know him (the rugby league players being the most commonly heard, but other B listers around Oz as well) really rave about him. They say he is generous, loyal and a free thinker and they give a lot of respect in contrast to what we offer him.

The influence he and Koder Nasser have on SBW and Cooper is obvious, but ultimately both are taking the Rugby equivalent of what Mundine does in boxing. They are staying as unattached from the institutions they work within as they can. Mundine promotes his own fights, and himself, and is worth a bomb because of it. He, SBW and Cooper are all taking the same risk which is perform constantly or next year will be a leaner pay packet. While i would love Cooper to be locked in for a few years to really get the benefit of any development, I think it is hard to criticise them for backing themselves against the risk that they will fail or their body falls apart.

Boomeranga surely SBW's body is more likely to fall apart fighting bin men when he has a stress fracture, rather than resting like the other players?

I'm not sure Mundine has the guy's best interest at heart, he seems more intent in fighting the system than helping SBW fulfill his potential. I don't know much about it but I remember Mundine threw his RL career down the pan to become a journeyman boxer because he felt that aborigines(sp) weren't getting a fair chance by the Kanagaroo's. He seems like a bit of a loon to be honest and it seems to have a lot of influence over SBW.

Boomer
You make some excellant observations there, SBW did vitually all his own promotion for his last fight in June. And in fairness to him he did make a $100k donation to the earthquake relief fund.
Something definitely has a strong hold on these guys,I dont know how much the the muslim thing directs them,but always lurking somewhere in the background is Koder Nasser,like mac the knife.

No doubt Rodders that if rugby is your focus then resting rather than fighting fat bouncers is a better choice.

Id like to agree with you on whether or not Mundine has SBW's best interest at heart, but I wouldnt have a clue to be honest. I was just saying that it appears that people who know him dont seem as opposed as people like me who dont. Might be that he manipulates everyone, or there might be something to him that we dont see. I do think though that Sonny Bill would have learnt from the whole kerfuffle when he walked out on League that regardless of who is advising him, it's he who'll take the heat of his decisions and he wont be able to hide behind others. And he doesnt appear to me to be that type of bloke anyway.

On Mundine leaving league, he did go citing the institutional racism of the game as the reason, and that is something you hear a bit, but his father was a famous (here at least) boxer as well, so it was probably in his blood to have a go.

Whatever the correct view is, SBW and Choc make reading the paper more interesting, which is a good thing.

Yeah Laurie, Koder Nasser pops up quite regulalry here as public enemy number 1, and he clearly doesnt give a sh*t either. The only thing I can confirm about him is that he has a pretty hot wife as well!

Boomeranga yeah I mean I don't know either I'm just speculating. Maybe Mundines a great guy, and I know boxing is in his blood, but the abrupt manner in which he left League was a bit odd.

SBW's career seems to have followed a similar pattern so you can only presume there is some sort of connection.

I don't know much about this particular situation but if he's just trying to get himself the best deal he can then fairplay to him as thats what a lot of other players our doing.

I just hope he's learnt his lessons from the way he left League and doesn't burn any more bridges.

When Mundine left league, he did cite institutional racism of the game as the reason, but maybe he was jut not good enough for the Roos. He played the Origin games, but in the Grand Final before hand did fluff a try that could've have kept St George in the game, incidently how good was Ridge for Manly then!!

Anyway, good luck to SBW whichever route he chooses, I think maybe boxing may be more rewarding for him, or even league, compared to union.

I think he was competing with Fittler and Johns at the stage as well wasn't he Oz? No way was he better than those two, but he made all the noices about it. Doesn't help himself.

Rodders - I hope I didn't come across like a preachy Mundine disciple up there. I really don't like him much, but it just makes me wonder if he is as dodgy as I think he is, or whether deep down there is a decent bloke stuck behind the chippy mouth. Probably not

Well,Well another one with a Australian granny,can`t find away around the ARU rules yet,if he had his way he`d be a WALLBY next year.
I`m all for a man doing his best for himself and his family BUT there are limits.Why go cap in hand crawling to the man,THE ALL BLACKS are bigger than that.

allann
alot of Kiwis have Aussie relations,many Wallabies and All Blacks were born in the opposite country...

Oconnor for example. Kiwi parents.

The Franks boys were born in Melbourne.

True but not my point,he is using it as a convenience by not committing to one team.NO MATTER how good a players is THE ALL BLACKS are bigger than begging for him.Especially when there are players who would literally
almost die for the chance to play for them.

True,about O`Connor he also has a South African Granny but commited to
OZ and made it very plain good on him.
Read somewhere Ben was born in OZ,Owen in NZ with the Franks Brothers or vice versa,has Owen resigned to NZRFU yet know Ben has.
All RWC squad members were supposed to have decided there fitures before start of 3Ns.
To avoid being distacted by agents with cheque books distracting during RWC as hapened in 2007.

I think SBW is a fine rugby player. But he's not great and not the best or even 2nd best 12 or 13. I think that has been proven recently.
As I said on another thread
Cowan, Carter, Nonu, Smith, Jane, Mils, Dagg should be the back line with Weepu, Slade and Kahui or Toeava the reserves. Assuming everyone fit. I just think have SBW as a reserve is too limiting. Those 3 reserves with the 3 FBs already cover every position with skills.

emack2 wrote:True but not my point,he is using it as a convenience by not committing to one team.NO MATTER how good a players is THE ALL BLACKS are bigger than begging for him.Especially when there are players who would literally
almost die for the chance to play for them.

True, some of them want it so badly they take 3 years in the NH for the money between world cups

I remember being in New Zealand when it broke that Sonny Bill was moving from league to union. By the sheer volume of media it generated, I thought it was a preplanned decision that the only way for him to get out of the intense spotlight and focus in developing his union skills was to get out of NZ and further afield than Oz.

Even when Toulon were toutted as the club for him, it had the feel of Sonny Bill going over to Umaga, possibly with some organising/okay from NZRU. And considering he was elite level league at the time, the decision to go to Union had to be with a RWC in NZ down the line. So was the approach (was there an approach?) from NZRU to convert him with a promise of a rwc squad place (or a quiet assurance he would be considered).

If that is the case, then the move from Toulon over to S15 to get a full season there and involvement in 3Ns with the AB squad all seems like part of a long term strategy instead of some kind of following the money mercenary.

The whole 'deal is only verbal' talk is typical agent speak when haggling over the final part of a contract and often has nothing to do with the player and just is the agent doing what is best for his client (aka his cut of the contract). In the NH, you even had BOD going to Biarritz and Heaslip going to France.

bandwagon
OR
It was not in the interests of Khoder for Sonny Bill to stay with Canterbury Bankstown, as he couldnt claim any fee because he did not broker that deal. Once he walked out on the bulldogs they knew the NRL would not let him play for the duration period of the Canterbury contract (no one was going to buy the deal out) hence where else would he go .......Rugby...
Khoder Nasser is so good at his job (acting in the interest of his client)that it alarms me.

SBW might have some fine attribute's, but loyality isn't one of them, as his past history shows.

Nonsense

TheGreyGhost wrote:Nonsense

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article4414826.ece?token=null&offset=0&page=1
The man walks out after 1 year on a 5 year contract. As already mentioned the man has no loyalty.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Nonsense

Whats nonsense when i point out that SBW is not loyal?
Imagine the uproar if the Canterbury Bulldogs had broke their agreement on the 5 year deal. People just can't break a contract because it doen't suit them further down the line. A contract is a 2 way agreement.

It's nonsense. Clear nonsense.

Poor player, no loyalty only around for the big bucks. It's been a fact in the past and will be the same in the future.

Nonsense. Utter nonsense.

welshjohn369 wrote:Poor player, no loyalty only around for the big bucks. It's been a fact in the past and will be the same in the future.

Your right when you say its only about the money with him The guy doesn't know the meaning of the word LOYALTY, and what he's done in the past he will do again in the future.

Not really sure how I feel about SBW as a Union player. Makes some very good plays and misses some big plays. In other words a very good athlete who is in the process of learning the Union game. Where he levels off, I can't be sure.

But as a public persona, he comes off as an arrogant, spoiled, all-about-me kind of athlete. Easy to contrast him to someone like Jason Robinson, to me the most successful League to Union convert in the pro era. He also put in a lot of work to learn Union, but never lost his basic hulility and usually let his feet do the talking. To keep it closer to home, compare SBW to Brad Thorn. Hard working, good player, doesn't have a publicity machine working overtime. And frankly, if SBW took on Thorn in a fight, SBW ain't winning that one.

Dr Grey
On this guy I think you have to discern between Sonny Bill Williams a very talented samoan kid, who loves sport from the working suburbs of Auckland,and....
Sonny Bill williams the client of sports promoter Khoder Nasser and entourage...

Aucklandlaurie,
I gotcha. But have to tell a quick story. I have spent this summer, soon to end, in America, staying with friends in New Jersey. The reason is to spend the summer working with one of the NY NFL terams to compare medical methods, treatment and standard practises. Despite their labour situation, I had a daily contact with a large number of their players. Many of them come from difficult upbringings: inner city kids, farm kiids, single parent families, no money, limited education, and so on. This is the first time any are in the spotlight, playing in front of 80,000 fans and have real money. A few players are over the top. But most I found modest, even some of the stars. So I have a bit of trouble of accepting Sonny Bill as being who he is by virtue of a difficult upbringing.

Now, I should give him some credit. An athletes career is terribly short. Any of them could have their career ended at any time. So I do not begrudge him, or anyone else the opportunity to maximise his earning power in the short time he has. If he wants to play League, then Union, then box, then be a male figure skater, I don't care. More power to him. But all that could be accomplished without that attitude, the perrenial smirk, and the sense he gives a damn about no one but Sonny Bill.

And, oh yes, Khoder Nasser IS a leech and a scumbag. He would manipulate the heck out of the nuns of Saint Mary's if he could.

Dr Grey, What do you mean by, "that attitude,the perenial smirk, and the sense that he ..............."?

Interesting article here - SBW's fasting in daylight hours this month for Ramadan. Not the easiest thing for an athlete to do, though August in NZ is a lot easier than August in the UK due to shorter daylight hours. I had an Islamic flatmate at university who wasn't especially devout (he ate halaal, but drank like a fish), and the year he decided to observe Ramadan it fell in January -so sunset after 9 pm and sunrise before 5.30, plus 30 degree days.

I think you know what I mean, mate. But this is worse here in America, more common.
The attitude amongst their NBA basketball players is more off putting, but somewhat common.


You saw my comment about Khoder Nasser?

Converted from rugby league to union then converted to Muslim I thought that was no longer in vogue with the stars.
He certainly does seem to try and be different

Dr Grey,
I relly do think that SBW is an innocent kid, he is however under the manipulation (as you said above) of Khoder Nasser.
On the issue of Ramadan, I cant recall it being covered as an issue by the media in say realation to SBW's old team mate Hasim El Masri???
The next isuue thats arisen is that SBW has been offered a sponsorship deal with a rival company to the NZRFU sponsor.amidst the NZRFU trying to agree on terms for SBW's next contract.
What I'm saying is that this isn't Sinny Bill talking, this is someone else..

Cymroglan wrote:Converted from rugby league to union then converted to Muslim I thought that was no longer in vogue with the stars.
He certainly does seem to try and be different

I think he switched to Islam before going to RU - Hazem el Masri was an infuential figure at the Bulldogs. SBW (like far too many NRL players) got into trouble out on the booze a couple of times when younger, so having a reason to go teetotal is no bad thing.