Thoughts on England

First up, well played Wales. A fantastic denfensive effort, and a lesson in taking opportunities when they come.

However, as an England fan, what worries me the most is not our inability (with that team at least) to put points on the board and score tries, but more that having watched the game, I don't think we've actually learnt anything! What do we know now that we didn't before?
The same could not be said the week before, following good games from a number of supposed "fringe" players.

I've also seen some reports critising Flood. It was Tindall's decision to go for the corner and look for the tries, not Flood's. Also the reports of "Flood fails to get back line moving". Well even Dan Carter would fail to get that back line moving. Flood needed a runner and didn't get one all game.

bath

I think we did learn a few things from this game, although unlike last week they've mainly been on the negative side -

A 3/4 line of Hape, Tindall, Bananaman and Cueto is not fast enough or skilful enough to threaten a good defence. Ashton was a big miss (may well have been on Tindall's shoulder when he made his break). Good point about the lack of a runner coming off Flood (surely that should have been Banahan coming from the blind side wing).

Our forwards need a better understanding of where they should be so as to not hinder the backline.

Fourie is not as good in an England shirt as he has been for Leeds (decent player shining in a poor team).

Generally, there is still a need to work on some of the detail stuff - we were winning lineout ball but then either dropping it or not getting it well set for a drive.

Some of our mauls were horrific also, broken up, going sideways or just stationary.

Wigglesworth looked poor, god i wish he'd started Care and had Simpson to come on.

Mj should have brought Hodgeson on at about 50 mins.

Stevens should have been on at half time.

We can never play that backline from 11-14 again. I'd be happy with none of them staying in the squad. Tindall is too slow with serious passing problems, Hape ditto, Cueto just goes missing and Banahan isn't up to this level except perhaps as an impact sub.

Outstandinh passion and organisation from Wales, zero passion or organisation from England. looked like none of them wanted to be on the plane.

After two good takes at the restart Easter again began to vanish, he needed to boss the pack and get them going but nothing happened.

Wood also bar one tackle was pretty annonimous and Fourie struggled.

I do agree mostly with bathmad. We didn't learn anything new. We no Hape isn't an international 12, Tindall has been a good servant but is now too old for this young England side. Cueto was a excellent work horse in the Autum internationals but has now faded away. I still think Bananhan is more of an impact sub at best. He is meant to be a Lumo but he can't run over Shane Williams and he doesn't have the pace to keep up with the international wingers.

I do not know why we didn't give Sharples ago? I thought he played well when he came on in the first match and I sure that he would have been on shoulder of who ever broke through. Personally I think our best back 3 (from the current world cup squad) is:

15: Foden
14: Ashton
11: Sharples

What do you think?

Banahan was very poor and his attempted finish against Williams was appalling, but I though he played well the week before but I think Tuilagi is ahead of him in the pecking order.

Hape should be dropped for Flutey, we cannot have Tindall and him in the same team. I think Tindall is a better defender and leader so he is just ahead of Tuilagi.

Flood was poor but was in difficult circumstances, I would give him another go against Ireland and if he doesn't perform then the 10 shirt is Jonny's.

I think Haskell should start at 8 against Ireland, Easter was poor on Saturday and the backrow lacked dynamism which Haskell would bring. But I am still slightly unsure about that one. Haskell can sometimes be very dim and we migt miss Easters nouse.

Sharples needs to be in the squad as our Back 3 without Ashton looked very slow well the whole backline did. If Ashton is injured we need Sharples to cover as a finisher and a pace man. There is also a good argument for him to replace Cueto.

"Wigglesworth looked poor, god i wish he'd started Care and had Simpson to come on."

I agree with this. Wigglesworth is not the type of player England need at 9. England need a tap and go game breaker, someone who can exploit the endless ruck situations MJ seems intent on creating. Care made a massive different when he came on, and when it comes to making those sorts of breaks, Simpson is even sharper.

Wigglesworth works well at Sarries with the sort of game plan they like to play, but England need more attacking play from their 9. Ashton and Foden got a lot of praise for England's transformation last season, but Youngs was the guy sparking it all. If Youngs can't fully recover fitness and form, then Care and Simpson should share the role.

I agree with most of what has already been posted.
Alot of frustration watching the game on Saturday to say the least.
Thought that the pack done well and our line outs were pretty good.

Now we move on to the negatives......
Toby Flood - passing was awful, how many times have we seen him try and get enough power on a pass to send it out wide and stretch the play and he ends up tossing it too high and slows things up!! This was one of the reasons Banahan didn't score that 'certain' try! And his decision making is too hesitant....................Wilko is nailed on at 10 for me.
Banahan - For his size he just doesn't impose himself enough, the opposition should be quaking in their boots when he latches on to a pass. I would have backed anyone of Ashton, Foden and Armatige to have smash through Williams or at least go passed him and get the ball down.
9 - We need Youngs to hopefully be fit. Danny Care is the obvious choice and rightly so to step in or be his back up. Can't believe Johnson has not given Simpson a go.
Centres - This needs to be adressed and quickly. I like Tindall but his time is very quickly drawing to an end and has been found wanting for pace on many occassions. Hape should not be in the starting line up, loses ball too much. Flutey has been inconsistant but hopefully gains back some form. Tuilagi looks deadly when he is on it but needs to add some composure and awareness to his defensive game.

Thompson - I think he has nailed on that position ahead of Hartley and rightly so....he was imense and our driving force at the weekend - great player.

Johnson has a lot of work and a lot of decisions to make.

Also, Cueto (as much as i like him) just doesn't seem to be cutting it at the moment. Would Armatige be a bould replacement?

Generally the forwards played pretty well, but their inability to produce quick ball (this has been a moan for years now) suggests that thier coaching at the breakdown is clearly not up to International standard. Watch the Allblacks and Aussies and even Ireland and Wales and they all produce rapid ball, England just do not hit the rucks hard enough to clear out.

It was particularly dissapointing to hear MJ after the game moaning about the ref, essentially blaming him for allowing the Welsh to slow the ball, what else are they going to do, he should be blasting his players and telling them to be far more ruthless when clearing out.

Unfortunately that was pretty much it for positives, the backline was dire, Floods decision making, confused and predictable, the running lines off the ball were non-existant (bad coaching?) Hape continues to be hapless, Banahan reverted to type and even Foden was pretty ineffectual, probably depressed at what was happening in front of him!

All of that though pales really. The decision making was a mixture of arrogant and plain stupid. Why constantly try and bully our way over the line when 3 simple penalties were on, 9 points, different game. I know Tindell is a stand-in but the lack of leaders on the pitch was very alarming....headless chickens and all that.

This would be my starting line up for Ireland:

Steven
Thompson
Cole
Palmer
Lawes
Haskell
Easter (C)
Wood
Care
Wilkinson
ArmitageFlutey
Tindell
Ashton
Foden

Hartley
Corbisiero
PDJ
Deacon/Shaw
Fourie
Flood
Sharples

And if that tteam cannot produce a mssive improvement and the management cannot sort their thinking and tactics out, we're in for a very nast WC.

No doubt about it on saturday England was purely second rate,moast of those players are Englands first choice players as well.

Johnson needs to have a gopod look at the video of the game and make some/alot of changes, not only for England's next game but also for the RWC its self.

The centre partnership needs sorting out now Hape and Tindall need to be dropped for that display,Flood needs to make way for Wilkinson and battle it out with Charlie Hodson for the bench spot.


With Ashton not being aval;ible last week why oh why, did he not give Sharples a go on the wing?

The pack did alright, scrum half, Care needs to be starting if Youngs is not fit enough. we need some else in place of Banahan...Who?

Majestic - Why not Armitage on the wing instead of Banahan? He has pace, is pretty big and looks to coming back to form. My one concern is his style of tackling, which is almost always around the chest/throat.

Alternatively play Cueto on one wing and Sharples on the other, Cueto lacks a bit of pace but always breaks the gainline, is safe under the high ball, tackles well and can kick, solid if not spectacular but not donkey like at least!

I reckon that these warm-up games have been very beneficial for the coaches.Much better for areas of concern to be highlighted now before the WC commences.Hopefully there will be time to rectify gliches.Neither side should be overly concerned.If Wales had capitulated everything in the garden would be seen as rosy.The result will help England in the long run.

what do people think of playing Tindall at 12 and Tuilagi at 13? Would this combo work? We all know that Tindall isn't a great passer of the ball but he would be solid at 12 and be able to take the ball into contact when needed - he would also be on the field to wear the captain's armband. With Tuilagi, Foden and Ashton in the team (with JW at 10) there's still enough flair to create things. For me, Cueto could still do a job in this backline as there's enough attacking talent elsewhere, but Sharples/Armitage on the wing would still be worth a look.

rugbyfan
Why would you have someone in your backline if they werent a great passerof the ball especially at 2nd 5/8th, any advantage a team has in having outside backs with flair is immediately lost,if the 2nd 5 doesnt have an arsenal of passing skills, the centres and wings in the top sides are all so close in ability the slightest edge cant be given away,to anyone.

aucklandlaurie wrote: rugbyfan
Why would you have someone in your backline if they werent a great passerof the ball especially at 2nd 5/8th, any advantage a team has in having outside backs with flair is immediately lost,if the 2nd 5 doesnt have an arsenal of passing skills, the centres and wings in the top sides are all so close in ability the slightest edge cant be given away,to anyone.

I agree! But it's about making the best of a bad situation. the ONLY 12 that we have in the squad who is capable of playing as you say would be Flutey, and this is based on his form of two years ago, so picking him would be risky. We have to accept that England do not have a world-class 12, so the team has to work around this. Englands backs were superb in the autumn game against Australia - with Hape at 12 - so backlines can still perform without a passing 12.
Tindall is a good leader and a solid player, he also organises the team defensively, so I think him at 12 would be an option with lots of attacking players around him.