Were Dempsey's Gloves Loaded?

I've seen a lot of posts on the topic of whether or not Dempsey's gloves were loaded in his fight against Willard over the years but had forgotten about Nat Fleischer writing on the subject in his 1958 book '50 Years At Ringside'. I just came across the following passage beginning on page 117 and thought it might be of interest:

"Were Dempsey's gloves loaded?
That question has been discussed time and again in magazine and newspaper articles by persons incapable of giving a proper answer except through hearsay or from comments made by persons supposedly "in the know." I watched the crumbling of the Pottowatomie Giant and after the terrific shellacking that Willard took, I heard many remarks that no human could deal out so much punishment with padded mitts unless there was something hidden in the gloves. Even to this day one reads about "loaded gloves," and how plaster of Paris on Dempsey's bandages cut Jess' face to ribbons.

I was at the fight. I watched Dempsey in training. I saw Jimmy DeForest, his trainer, tape Jack's hands. I watched every move of the men in Jack's quarters. I think I can clear the atmosphere once and for all time with an accurate version of what happened.

Jack Dempsey had no loaded gloves, nor did he use plaster of Paris over his bandages. I make this assertion despite the recent statement by Jack Kearns, Dempsey's manager in that contest, that he had sprinkled plaster of Paris powder over the bandages on Jack's hands and then poured on alcohol to form a plaster cast. I watched the proceedings and hte only person who had anything to do with the taping job was Deforest, who, after he had taped the hands, poured some water over the bandages to keep Jack's hands cool. Of course, any solution poured over bandages will harden them, but that's all that took place.

Deforest became riled when the loaded gloves stories began to appear. I recall a press conference he had with several reporters, including myself, at which he angrily remarked:

"I regard the stories I put plaster of Paris on Jack's bandages as plain libel. I'm tired of hearing people talk about such nonsense. It's pure trash. These rumors affect my reputations for honesty and fair dealing. I did not apply any foreign substance to them. I used a hard adhesive tape. This certainly was not irregular. It was not against the rules. It was the same kind of tape I always used when I bandaged Kid McCoy's hands."

DeForest's statement should settle all further arguments. It was not until the recent fall-out between Kearns and Dempsey over the proposed movie of Jack's life (in which Kearn's plays no part) that the latter gave this new version of the bandaging of Dempsey's hands. Kearns has always denied the plaster of Paris yarn over the years, only to change the story in the past few months."

Reports I've seen, including one at Cox's Corner don't seem to lend much credence to the theory of loaded gloves.

This one never fails to spark a debate, however I'd like to think that your excerpt goes some way to dispelling any doubts that some may have had.

Personally, I've never bought into the 'Dempsey's gloves were loaded' rumours, and am more in the camp of 'regardless how big you are, if you get hit that hard, that cleanly, and that many times, you will go down and you will take significant damage'. A brief answer maybe, but one that I think stands true.

Be prepared for a Rowley backlash here.

The ' iron spike ' theory is just as unlikely, in my view.

Dempsey could not have concealed the spike inside his glove, since the mystery object which resembled a spike appeared on the ring apron at the end of the first round, at which point the gloves were not removed. Nor could he have held it, since he is clearly seen, several times, shoving Willard in the chest with open gloves and also grabbing the top rope.

The only other physical possibility, therefore, is that the ' bolt ' was fixed to the palm of his glove, which would simply beggar belief.

Willard didn't complain about the ' iron bolt ' until years later, and it has been established that his injuries were greatly exaggerated in the immediate aftermath of the fight. Willard was safely home in Kansas giving a newspaper interview the day after the fight. No broken jaw.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Be prepared for a Rowley backlash here.

Happy to oblige Ghosty, simply cannot believe this argument still has any legs to it. Pretty much every accousation of loded gloves has been discredited on more than one occasion but still refuses to die. People claim he had a metal lump in his hand but when you watch the fight you can see Jack push him off with an open hand which is an obvious impossibility with loaded gloves. People claim he had plaster of paris despite attempts to replicate the method he was claimed to have used proving to be less than useless. Dempsey beat Willard with loaded gloves, ducked Harry Wills etc etc, open season on Jack of late.

I don't buy it personally, and nor have I ever. As everyone knows, Willard himself gave a cursory examination to Dempsey's gloves prior to the first bell, and given that Dempsey visibly opened his glove when teeing off on Willard at points, I think the claim that he was clutching a metal spike or pipe of some kind in his fists is rather fanciful, too.

Also, from what I've read, reports of the injuries suffered by Willard have been greatly exaggerated. He took a serious beating, no doubt, but most (seemingly) reliabe accounts I've read state that his face in the hours after the fight wasn't consistent with what we hear now (broken cheek bone, broken nose, teeth missing and so on), and he was also well enough to drive home later that very day.

From what I've seen, there isn't actually a great deal to support the theory of foul play from Dempsey or Kearns.

Without actually being their we obviously have to rely on report's from the people that where, and the account from Fleischer seem's to pretty much remove all element's of doubt.

If Willard had been beaten around the head with a lump of metal for three rounds he'd have been getting interviewed the next day by St Peter, not the newspapers.

Willard was fond of exaggerating his injuries, after the Frank Moran fight when he claimed he didn't knock Moran out because he had broken all the bones in his right hand when in fact he had a slight fracture in the joint of one finger.

To be fair Union, Margarito battered Cotto around with bricks and he's still around to tell the story.

Difference is that there isn't a shred of credible evidence that Dempsey did have loaded gloves.

coxy0001 wrote:To be fair Union, Margarito battered Cotto around with bricks and he's still around to tell the story.

Difference is that there isn't a shred of credible evidence that Dempsey did have loaded gloves.

Sorry Coxy but where's the evidence that Margarito had loaded gloves when he fought Cotto?

BTW, answering "the state of his face" isn't going to wash as Manny did pretty much the same to him and as we all know, Manny is above reproach

Union Cane wrote:Without actually being their we obviously have to rely on report's from the people that where, and the account from Fleischer seem's to pretty much remove all element's of doubt.

If Willard had been beaten around the head with a lump of metal for three rounds he'd have been getting interviewed the next day by St Peter, not the newspapers.

Willard was fond of exaggerating his injuries, after the Frank Moran fight when he claimed he didn't knock Moran out because he had broken all the bones in his right hand when in fact he had a slight fracture in the joint of one finger.

thats the first time I've seen you post anything serious on here Union!!!

DAVE667 wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:To be fair Union, Margarito battered Cotto around with bricks and he's still around to tell the story.

Difference is that there isn't a shred of credible evidence that Dempsey did have loaded gloves.

Sorry Coxy but where's the evidence that Margarito had loaded gloves when he fought Cotto?

BTW, answering "the state of his face" isn't going to wash as Manny did pretty much the same to him and as we all know, Manny is above reproach

I agree one hundred percent with this, Dave. I'm no fan of Margarito and I don't think he should ever have been allowed near a ring again after being caught out before the Mosley bout, but it does irk me slightly when I see people assuming that foul play must have been the reason for Cotto's loss against him. Just a thought, but I've always reckoned that spending the whole second half of a fight blocking punches with your face might have something to do with getting stopped and badly marked up. As you say, should we speculate that Pacquiao's gloves were loaded too, as Cotto's face was in pretty much the same condition as it was post-Margarito?

A quick comparison with the Collins/Resto fight shows what damage loaded gloves can when in the hands of a light puncher, not much to go but Collins was in far worse shape than Cotto was against Margarito someone who could punch unlike Resto.

If we're talking about facial injuries indicating the use of loaded gloves, the Margarito was hideously marked after the Pacquiao fight...


...of course, such speculation is nonsense. While I'm inclined to heavily suspect that Margarito most likely didn't begin using loaded gloves with the Mosley fight, there's zero hard evidence to prove he definitely had loaded gloves for any other fight.

Besides which; his face certainly wasn't plastered, and he took a lot of punishment prior to stopping Cotto.

On the subject of Dempsey; that one's been disproved so many times in so many ways it's not worth serious consideration anymore.

Some speculate that Margarito started "loading" after the P-willy loss.

He did have a run of 3 TKOs - over Johnson, Cintron and Cotto. The Cintron stoppage was especially brutal - painful almost to watch.

Not certain either way, myself. Certainly - he hardly hit Cotto for 6 rounds - so the lateness of the stoppage wouldn't be that surprising.

Loaded with dynamite.......

Who knows??? The people that think LBJ conspired to have JFK killed...that Hoover did the same to Luther.... also having firm belief Armstrong took that one giant step in a locker built in the Arizona desert..

Probably think so..