Wonderful stat from Pat Mcenroe today vindicating my arguments on reasons for Novak's run

As usual, certain segments want to discuss how its just novak's physical improvements that have been the catalyst to his success this year. And no question Novak is fitter and the new diagnosis of his allergy problems has certainly been a major improvement and A CAUSE of his success. But somehow this vocal minority want to downplay the other improvements to his game. Namely his progression on serve gets ignored. Mcenroe came up with a very interesting statistic. This time last year Djokovic had 226 double faults, this year at the same time he has 91. The last couple of matches he has struggled a little again as he has had 8 doubles in the last two matches alone but over the course of the year the serve has been a glaring and important reason for his success. 130 less double faults in about 2/3rds of a season. With the thin margins at the top the difference of 130 points over the course of 2/3rds of the season is hugely significant.

Later, Cahill on the american broadcast talked to vajda who kept repeating how the serve has been the biggest reason for Novak's success. Mcenroe also talked about the improvements over the last couple of years to the Djokovic forehand, another technical improvement that often gets ignored in the wake of gluten free mania that has descended on the tennis world. Novak's forehand is much more solid and dangerous than it was 2 years ago. Additionally, over the last few years his volleying has progressed while not a great volleyer he has become a decent and opportunistic one from being really quite poor at net in the past.

No matter how fit Novak has gotten, if he had 220 plus doubles at this point of the season and was getting broken with the regularity of last year he would be nowhere near the level he has attained. Put that together with continuing technical improvements to his serve, slice backhand, forehand, and volleys and you can see that the fitness improvement is only one part of a larger picture.

I'm confused: can you point out who isn't saying he's playing better>

What some of us also recognise is the collapse in the standard of his competition, something anathema to your need.

That's the part of the picture that you can't allow yourself to see.

Tenez, kept arguing with me that his serve improvement is not as valuable as or nearly as valuable as his physical improvement. I think both are necessary and neither is sufficient on its own to explain his success and better form.

As for your point on the collapse of the standard of competition I think it is too early to tell. Nadal just finished playing in a grandslam final. If not for Djokovic he would clearly be having another year similar to 08 or 10. He never plays particularly well this part of the season anyway. He lost a couple of matches to lower ranked players. He lost one match to Ferrer this year when he was clearly hurt and even Ferrer said he wasn't healthy. He lost once to Tsonga, once to Dodig, and once to Fish. If Novak hadn't completely dominated him he could easily be on his way to his first season with less than double digit losses and people would be talking about how great Nadal is.

A lot of players would love a slump where they were able to reach 5 finals, 4 masters and a grandslam final. Clearly, he is having a bit of wimby hangover as well although I don't think his level in the first half of the year was any less than his regular standard.

Nobody mentions the fact that he changed the type of tennis racket he was using. New one is quite a bit larger apparently. Initially, he had trouble with it and hence the dip but since then he's been lights out.

He went back to his old racquet.

Djokovic has improved conditioning and diet - makes him fitter and mentally stronger. But it doesnt make his technique per se better does it - and yet he's winning everything this year which makes you think it cant be just fitness/abit stronger mentally alone.

The key part of the jigsaw is that the competition has the same time has fell away.

1. Nadal is not having a 2008 year but for Nole. Absolutely not. He's a shadow of his former self and anyone thinking otherwise is deluding themselves - his for this year is 60-70% of his peak. He's lost his mojo and seemed to do so after not getting the grand slam with the AO. Something is simply not right with him - his matches through the French were just awful. I mean 5 sets to Isner on clay? Then he raised his game in the final and against Fed we always know its usually 1-way traffic due to the match-up/tactics.
Socal, Nadal is nowhere near 2010 never mind 2008 form. Its plain to see, he's struggling to get through ALL his matches. Its amazing he's doing as well as he is - simply testament to his huge force of will.

2. Fed is also a shadow of his former self, any tennis fan can see that. Its a shame but it happens. But he's still able to give anyone a good game as FO showed (Fognini nothwithstanding...lol) and win big matches. Still a threat for USO but he's not got the same fluidity and consistency as before. He should move to bigger racquet of the same type I feel (95sqin).

3. Murray's challenge (besides this week) has been nowhere. Seems to have fallen off at just the wrong time given he opportunity with Nadal and Federer slumping.

4. And the rest? Tsonga, Berdych, Soderling...where are they in slams? I mean Fish is now the leading challenge to Nole - is that how bad the tour has got? Yes, Fish is a great player but he's not in the same league really is he as Nadal/Federer and yet he's now leading the charge to Nole. The game at present seems to be going backwards to me at the same time as Nole riding the crest.


It a perfect coming together of factors for Nole. If you're talking about the Nadal of 2008 or the Federer of 2006/7 I would pick them both to still beat this Nole more times than not.
Tennis is now in that 2000-2003 transitional state (as BB commented elsewhere). To what I dont know - we await the next great 8+ slam players. Nole may be one of them, but I dont any others any time soon from the non-Nadal/Federer bunch. Has any player ever had such a great opportunity as Nole to now amass a huge number of slams?

Well, lydian I have to completely disagree with you. Nadal is winning most of his matches this year against top ten players in fact he is ahead of his career average. He has played in 8 finals this year out of 12 tournaments entered. He himself has said that he isn't playing badly that one guy is just outplaying him. Outside of Djokovic he has had exactly 4 losses, one of which was when he was badly hurt against ferrer. He just played in a grandslam final for the love of god and won the french open, THIS IS FREE FALL? He never plays particularly well this part of the year and he is coming off a bit of a knock.

Andy Murray is the best player in the history of tennis never to win a slam hands down no one else even close, 7 masters titles and 3 finals. Its funny how this era with a grandslam champ Nadal, an in form Djokovic, and the best player to never win a slam and loads of other talent is called weaker but it is impossible to come to that conclusion about the era of Hewitt, Ferrero, and Roddick. If Rafa is a shell of himself at one grandslam and a grandslam final in just 2 or 3 months ago, well then the weak era numbers at their best were never as good as the shell of Rafael Nadal.

As for Novak's improvement it is principally because he has modestly improved pretty much all aspects of his game over the last 2 years, and his serve has improved dramatcially over the last year. Again I BRING AN UNDENIABLE STATISTIC THAT SUPPORTS MY CONCLUSION AND YOU BRING NOTHING BUT YOUR OWN THEORIES THAT ARE NOT SUPPORTED BY THE FACTS. 130 POINTS LESS IN DOUBLE FAULTS IN 2/3RDS OF THE SEASON ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT IS NOT CRUCIAL TO HIS SUCCESS? The last three or four matches with a sore shoulder Djoko couldn't serve well and we all witnessed how it result in him playing very scratchy tennis.

Nadal has been winning most of his matches, but he doesn't look as powerful on court as he did last year. The best analogy is with Fed 2008/2009 - the only person beating him at the big ones until the US was Rafa, but although Fed's record was fantastic during these two years, commentators and players were noticing a vulnerability that didn't seem to have been there before.

At the moment though, I think Nadal (burned fingers permitting) might be the only one who can lift the US trophy - Fed is done, I think , Nole is exhausted and now injured, and while this is the ideal time for Murray to step up, I just don't know whether he is looking good enough atm. Delpo's form, which looked promising at W, is looking nowhere near good enough to ensure even getting to the second week. Although we might expect some exciting matches from other contenders (Tsonga perhaps looking most interesting atm), it is very difficult to see anyone else going all the way - but then again, that's what we all said about Delpo pre USO final 09

Regarding Nole's improvement - of course rediscovering the serve is a huge thing. I think it is a combination of feeling much better and more confident about his health and feeling more confident about his serve. Letting go of Todd Martin and just sticking with MV (yes, that's right - don't know how to spell it!) seems to ironed out the serving problems too.

The stats you mention as a whole number sound great - 130 less DF's - but if you break them down into matches thats just over 2 double faults less per match (he played 59 matches this year).

Wow - 2 double faults less! And you're telling me this is supposed to account for some huge transformation? Also, you'll know its when the DF's occur that count. I dont recall DF's hurting Nole in sets or matches before and at 2 DFs more per match in 2010 I dont think this is the big deal you're making it out to be in reality.

I think the other factors such as his diet, fitness, Fed slump, Nadal slump, and pre-Cincy Murray slump are the biggest factors in his success, not modest reductions in double faults per match.

Socal, we'll have to disagree about Nadal. You can quote stats to me all day long (and as the above shows not all stats are that meaningful) but his form is simply not at the level of 2008 or 2010. Yes he winning matches, but only just most of the time, compared to sailing through in previous years. There's a big difference in the quality of winning. The rest of the top 10 are hardly playing great either and as discussed Fed is less of a force compared to before this year. I know you want this year to be a year when Nole is winning against the best competition ever but its simply not the case.

we'll have to disagree about Nadal. You can quote stats to me all day long (and as the above shows not all stats are that meaningful) but his form is simply not at the level of 2008 or 2010. Yes he winning matches, but only just most of the time, compared to sailing through in previous years.

he's more interested in golf and football these days i think

Lydian are you serious, with the margins at the top of game you don't think 130 points is a big difference. Ok how about the fact that he is winning a higher percentage of points on second serve. How about the fact that last year Novak was somewhere between 40 and 50 in terms of percentage of service games held and now he is in the top 4? You seem to believe that only the stats that support your own conclusions matter. All one has to do to see how important his serving numbers are is to watch his last 3 matches in Cincy when his serve abandoned him due to a sore shoulder and see how he struggled mightily in each and every match when his serve went away.

I agree with timeplease, I have never said that fitness isn't a part of the equation, obviously it is. But he could run like a jack rabbit all day long if he can't make an impact on his serve he would still be sitting at 2 or 3 in the world right now. He would not be #1 and dominating without the improved serve. And there have been many other subtle improvements in the technical aspects over the last couple of years that have all come together.

Was Nadal slumping at the beginning of the year when he reached the finals 7 straight events from IW to RG? The man plays in the finals of 67 percent of the tournament's he enters and he is somehow a shell of himself. Outside of last year he has never done particularly well in the hardcourts after wimbeldon to begin with and he is coming off an injury and tough wimbeldon loss. I think frankly you are jumping the gun big time in reporting his demise. If anything he has having a tougher time with his confidence because of the 5 big finals losses to Novak.

And Andy Murray is by far the best player to never win a slam and that might change in 2 weeks we have no idea. Roger, poor broken down Roger has the one of the two wins against Novak this year.

Anyone who knows something about tennis can see Nadal is not the player he was a few years ago. He might still be winning matches but his forehand is all over the place, his backhand can be very shaky at times and he just doesn't seem as fast around the court any more. If he doesn't start to lift his game then I think he could be in serious trouble over the next few months.

The same goes for Federer, but to a much larger extent. Put Federer 2006 vs Federer 2011 and the result would not be pretty for the current iteration. He's far weaker now in every department of the game, and his serve would be the only thing keeping him in it.

Nole has got better, but there's no doubt that this is no golden era.

Chazz, if Novak 2010 shows up this year Nadal would have 2 grandslams and handful of masters going into the USO, everyone would be talking him up as the goat as he would be dangerously close to getting to 16 slams. He lost 5 finals to one guy, instead of giving credit to that player who beat him, people simply look at that one fact and say Nadal is the shell of himself. When Novak wasn't around at Monte Carlo or in the french open final he won easily. Its obvious that losing those big matches to Novak has dented his confidence a bit as it would to any player. Looking at two weeks of tennis and saying Nadal is falling apart is a bit too big of a conclusion to draw from a post wimbeldon mini-slump.

Nadal has been falling apart all year by his own relative high standards. You seem to ignore the subtlety of the argument here. This isnt about winning, but how he's winning - he's scraping through matches and has been for a long time. Yeah if Nole wasnt around Nadal would have been cleaning up - but with his current level of play that doesnt say much for the rest of the tour does it. Hence I agree this is now nowhere near a golden era.

Nole's serve has got better, it has much fluidity and accuracy. But I dont agree the DF stat means anything. He's hitting less of them for sure but its not a significant difference per match. The 2nd serve % is better yes but that's a different stat than DF - yes they're both serve stats and probably linked (better serving all round will lead to less DFs and more 1st serves) but the stat you quote about DFs - thats what this article is about - is unimpressive to me as a game changer. You seem to lack objectivity about looking at the tour at the moment and seem to what to big everyone up - is this because it makes Nole's run all the more impressive?

Most tennis fans will tell you that Nadal is simply not the same player as 2008...if he was he'd have won more of those Masters titles because I think Nadal was almost unplayable for periods of 2008. Still, every dog has its day and it becomes time for someone to take there turn in the sun - you cant assume all players stay at the same level year after year. Nadal has been grinding it out in the top 2 since 2005!

To me it makes little or no difference if people view Nadal as playing poorly or not. As i have stated novak's accomplishments will be measured on their own just like every player gets measured on his own CV. I don't agree with the argument that Nadal has fallen off the map, the numbers don't bear it out and neither is the tennis we have witnessed. In 2008, he was done two sets to love to Robert Kendrick before coming back winning the match in the first round of wimbeldon and then winning the whole tournament. Even at his dominant best Nadal was susceptible on a hardcourt to big flat hitters. Look at the numerous losses to Davy at his absolute peak, look at the losses earlier on to James Blake. Cilic in 09 destroyed him a couple of times, and Del Potro beat him 6-2, 6-2, 6-2 in 09 final. Nadal always has had more trouble on hardcourts and has always had a lot of tough wins over the course of the season. In fact, minus the 5 losses to Djokovic this would be his best year ever winning percentage against the rest of the tour. He would be coming in to the USO with EXACTLY 4 LOSSES TO EVERYONE ELSE ON TOUR. Even at his peak he always had double digit losses.

I think you are both right. Nadal is not the same confident player that he was in 2008 but Djokovic's ascent has played a big part in derailing Nadal and should be given credit for it.

Nadal seems to be overthinking on court. For me the best match he has played this year was the one against Del Potro at Wimbledon, especially after he injured his foot. From that point on the tactics were clear; play lights out tennis or get run around and lose, and he responded in spectacular fashion smacking clean winners left right and centre.

But as he himself admits, Djokovic is in his head and that is affecting his game against everyone.

So Djokovic is responsible for Nadal's decline, Nadal is responsible for Federer's decline and Murray is responsible for his own decline.

Golden era? When all four are back on form together at the same time then yes the potential is there but at the moment the answer is no.

lydian did you not watch the Wimbledon final or are you just blind??

Nadal played a near flawless first set yet still lost it. He only won the third set after Nole went to sleep (like he did in semi against Tsonga.) Nadal would have won that tournament had he been playing Tsonga or Federer in the final...

But as he himself admits, Djokovic is in his head and that is affecting his game

Nadal play at his peak in Wimby and the clay courts... result was still 3-0 to Nole mate. He only lost to Fish this week because of the blisters... and the Montreal loss was a one off.

icecold wrote:I think you are both right. Nadal is not the same confident player that he was in 2008 but Djokovic's ascent has played a big part in derailing Nadal and should be given credit for it.

Nadal seems to be overthinking on court. For me the best match he has played this year was the one against Del Potro at Wimbledon, especially after he injured his foot. From that point on the tactics were clear; play lights out tennis or get run around and lose, and he responded in spectacular fashion smacking clean winners left right and centre.

But as he himself admits, Djokovic is in his head and that is affecting his game against everyone.

So Djokovic is responsible for Nadal's decline, Nadal is responsible for Federer's decline and Murray is responsible for his own decline.

Golden era? When all four are back on form together at the same time then yes the potential is there but at the moment the answer is no.

Great post, I agree with everything you state there, including on the golden era. We need to give things more time and frankly I think we have been in a stronger period if you want to call it a golden era already for a few years, is this the end of the golden era or are we going to see Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal continue to move it forward only time will tell.

And that is my precise point, you take Djokovic out of the equation and Nadal would be having a year every little bit as dominant and possibly even more dominant than 08 and 11. Certainly, the 5 losses to Djoko in finals has dented his confidence and this has a hangover effect against other players on tour. But the guy lost one match to ferrer when injured, one match to Tsonga on grass, two tiebreakers to Ivan Dodig who is a good player and looked like he channeled Pistol Pete in sets 2 and 3 of his matches, and one match to the second hottest guy on tour on Nadal's least favorite surface. 7 straight finals shows that he is beating everyone else probably better than he ever has, but Djokovic is just playing better than him.

I just think Lydian's comment that Nadal is quote a "shell of himself" is way too harsh and is frankly hyperbole. A player making 7 straight finals in a season has not fallen off a cliff. He is playing the rest of the tour better than he has ever played them by the numbers.

I don't think this is top Nadal, and it's the worst level Federer has played probably since pre-2000. It's also not anything like Murrays best.

But it's the Golden Era of course.

PAT McEnroe ?? The LEAST SUCCESSFUL of the McEnroe Bros?



This is like saying that John Henman has an edifying idea

as to how Murray should play !

And (NO) there aint no *John* Henman .

I don't think we have seen top Nadal lately either, but I feel that he may well find form at the US Open. Uncle Toni will be back on board, and will have noticed that Novak was playing on empty for the latter part of Cincy - I think he will ensure that Rafa takes heart from that, and we will see a freer swinging Rafa if Nole goes out before him. He is very hard to beat over 5 sets, and as they say 'form is temporary - class is permanent'

Just hope Murray takes his chances and sends a clear message to Rafa himself that he intends to be there for the last point of the tournament.

yummymummy wrote:PAT McEnroe ?? The LEAST SUCCESSFUL of the McEnroe Bros?



This is like saying that John Henman has an edifying idea

as to how Murray should play !

And (NO) there aint no *John* Henman .

pat mcenroe has been around tennis his whole life and I am not quoting his opinion, he states a fact that I am repeating. And said fact that Novak has 130 less double faults this season is highly pertinent to the conversation at hand.

Those stats highly pertinent to YOUR conversation, I still dont buy that 2 DFs per match less is earth-shattering. There are other factors more important than this in his success this year. Just because an ex-player quotes a stat, it doesnt make that stat important, or what they say about it likewise.

On your other points, Nadal has had some ups and downs this year but as someone who has been watching him closely since 2003 his form this year is nowhere near that of 2008 or 2010.

You talk about Dodig - Nadal should have won that match in 2 easy sets but his form suddenly dipped worryingly in the 2nd set when he had that break and would have normally cruised to victory. Instead he got sucked into a dog fight as his form dipped and Dodig's confidence soared. Just look at his form at the FO, it was terrible besides the last couple of matches where he was able to pull it together somehow. Did you hear him speaking in the pressers after the matches? I've never heard him like that before...

You mention 2009 a couple of times but no-one is referring to that, it was a terrible year for him, blighted by major injury that started in Miami. He also suffered from this parents splitting up that year too and everyone how closely knit his and other spanish families are. Against Del Potro at the USO he had pulled stomach muscles and was serving about 80mph.

I'm talking about his form now vs 2008 & 2010. Forget 2009. Yes, Nadal hasnt fallen off the map but he's fallen off the high plateau he was on and having to really struggle with most matches it seems. His confidence/mojo is shattered, and has been most of the year after AO, and his game full of nagging gremlins and errors. But fine you keep telling yourself that his level of play is the same as ever....

[quote="lydian"] Just look at his form at the FO, it was terrible besides the last couple of matches where he was able to pull it together somehow. Did you hear him speaking in the pressers after the matches? I've never heard him like that before... [quote]

lydian wrote:Yes, Nadal hasnt fallen off the map but he's fallen off the high plateau he was on and having to really struggle with most matches it seems. His confidence/mojo is shattered, and has been most of the year after AO, and his game full of nagging gremlins and errors.

I disagree with this. Did you see how Nadal played in Barcelona after getting the confidence boost from winning Monte Carlo again? Nadal was having a good year until Madrid and definitely Rome. Being comfortably beaten by Djokovic twice in a row on his favourite surface did the damage.

I agree his form was awful during the early part of the French Open but I guess he probably felt more vulnerable than he has ever felt in his life on clay after Madrid and Rome. Let's face it, no one has beaten Nadal on clay since 2004 without Nadal being either knackered after a tortuous semi-final or injured. And Djokovic takes him out in straight sets in clay masters finals two times running with no issues for Nadal. Of course his confidence was shot going into the FO and Djokovic deserves credit for that.

Those "nagging gremlins and errors" come when you are no longer sure what you have to do and are caught in two minds. Who put those doubts there?

Nadal's Activity Record 2011
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Rafael-Nadal.aspx?t=pa

Yep i agree that losing in not one but two clay masters events, back to back has done the most damage. He clearly didn't expect Nole to dominate him in the rallies. He probably used to feel unbeatable, like a higher level above human. But now he's only human and it's killed some of his mentality.

Lydian he has four losses to the rest of the tour in 12 tournaments. That doesn't justify your comment that he is a shell of himself. One player has beaten him 5 times, instead of giving credit to the guy you look to find a reason to say that Nadal has fallen off. Frankly, if Nadal wasn't making all these finals and the tour was beating him up this year than I would agree with you. Except that Nadal actually has a higher winning percentage this season against the top 10 (even including 5 defeats to Djoko) than he does for his career. You take the five losses to Djokovic out of the equation and Nadal is 12-2 against the top 10.

Take his best season and he always had losses here and there to a big flat ball hitter on hardcourt at least a few times a year. Maybe Nadal isn't better than 08 or 10 I can't say, but he is lightyears better than what he was in 2005 when he reached #2 in the world with a serve that couldn't break 100 miles per hour. Rest of the top ten have 2 wins against Nadal in 8 months, Novak has 5 wins how about you start giving the man a little credit for his accomplishments.

Still waiting for you to actually provide a fact that supports any of your arguments. Did you watch the Dodig match, he lost two close tiebreakers to a guy who was just hitting bombs off the serve and making ridiculous winners. Nothing different than the multiple losses he had in his peak years to guys like blake or Davydenko.

Yup, good analysis icecold, I agree. Once a player's confidence has been dented by another player, is there a way back? We'll only really know when Nadal plays Djokovic again and that is a match I'd definitely want to watch!

luciusmann wrote:Yup, good analysis icecold, I agree. Once a player's confidence has been dented by another player, is there a way back? We'll only really know when Nadal plays Djokovic again and that is a match I'd definitely want to watch!

Lucius, I would love to see that match as well, i think at the USO this year if Novak's shoulder is holding up that I take him over Nadal. But RAfa certainly has not dropped off, dropped off in comparison to what? The only way he can get what mojo he has back is in beating Djoko in a big match, he needs to change tactics as it seems Djokovic has an answer for Nadal's plan A.

Nadal is a much better player today than he was in 05 and 06 for sure, according to uncle toni when Nadal first broke onto the tour he had the worst serve of any player in the top 100! But he still got to #2 in the world against the murderous competition of Roddick, Nalbandian, and the other goliaths of that era. Current Nadal is a better #2 than he was at 18 and 19 that is for sure, he is lightyears better. Why doesn't it reflect poorly on the mid 2000s that Nadal could be world #2 as an 18 year old with a serve that isn't even faster than your average collegiate women's player.

I think Nadal is a better technical player today than in 05 and 06 too socal - in fact I think most would agree. However, I think what youth has (well you know v young over young!!!) is derring do/desperate courage which wins over caution. Nothing hurts, the limbs are fresh and there is no reputation to defend. Nadal's serve may not have been the best then, but he was even more indefatiguable than today and would launch himself at anything - now he can hold the baseline better and dominate from there, but I don't know that he can run down everything for the whole match as he used to - and Nole has definitely had him on the run!

Time please, there is no question at all that Nadal is a much better player today than he is when he reached the world #2 for the first time in 05 and all the way really till 07. I watched Nadal in 05 and when he reached the world #2 ranking for the first time, I said this guy is obviously a great clay courter but how is a guy with no serve at all able to get to the #2 ranking and be competive on hardcourt events.

People have this lionized view of young Nadal because of his early french opens and wins over federer, he was a great young player no doubt, but he had major holes in his game that he has worked hard to fix. Uncle Toni himself recently said that when Nadal first won the french he had the worst serve on tour. He wasn't a particularly good volleyer, he didn't have the slice backhand he has today, or the flat forehand. A lot of guys were beating him on hardcourts in comparison to his two-Non Djokovic (Dodig and fish) hardcourt losses this year.

Pat...what does he know....where were you all 5 years ago, he,he....

Yes, Nitb we didn't hear all the fed fans talking up a weak era when Roger's only competition was an 18 year old who couldn't break 100 miles an hour on his serve. Now that Novak is dominating with a much stronger version of Nadal, all of sudden Nadal is weak competition and has totally lost it.

The only guy who gave any credit to Nole in the "early "days for Pete Sampras. He saw it at USO 2007.
The reason NOle is the best is because both his forehand and backhand are weapons. Serious weapons. With Fed it's the forehand, with Nadal,also forehand. Their backhand is decent, I'd say Fed's backhand is better when on, Nadal's is more reliable. So there lies all the truth. Easy. Everything Nole is doing now, he was doing back in 2007 minus the fitness and physical development/maturing/strength.
People back then were so infatuated with FEdal (and may I admit rightly so) that they simply chose to ignore Nole, taking him as a sidekick, joker etc....how wrong were they all...

Can't disagree with what you have to say nitb, i would only add that Novak's serving issues were a big problem that for an 18 month period really prevented him from having the kind of success that we knew he could have. Also his forehand is a different and better forehand than the one he broke onto the tour with in 05 and 06.

People back then were so infatuated with FEdal (and may I admit rightly so) that they simply chose to ignore Nole, taking him as a sidekick, joker etc....how wrong were they all...

I don't remember anyone calling him a "sidekick" they just felt that Murray would be having the better career of the 2 and a year or so ago his serve was deserving of ridicule

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

People back then were so infatuated with FEdal (and may I admit rightly so) that they simply chose to ignore Nole, taking him as a sidekick, joker etc....how wrong were they all...

I don't remember anyone calling him a "sidekick" they just felt that Murray would be having the better career of the 2 and a year or so ago his serve was deserving of ridicule

Nole was so constantly brushed under the carpet by media it was painful....I think only after him winning Wimbledon tennis world finally realised he is not going anywhere.

True, Nitb, wimby was really career defining. He finally is starting to get a small slice of the recognition that he deserves. Now that he is dominating the game and has obviously and dramatically raised his level of play all of sudden the era becomes weak and Nadal is just shell of himself. I take the shell of Rafael Nadal over 99 percent of other top players in the past present and future. By the way this Nadal is way better than the Nadal of 05, 06, and 07 as he has continually worked on areas of his game to improve.