Referees

First topic message reminder :

Outrageous news this morning as rouge Irish referee George "Vigilante" Clancy has escaped with a mere warning after blatantly overstepping his jurisdiction and conspiring with an unknown local man to rub out a valid All Black try in Port Elizabeth on Saturday.

After first suggesting that Clancy would be dealt with appropriately "It was disappointing and will form part of our discussions when we next meet." and confirming that the try should have stood, that Clancy was incorrect and that the local South African school teacher had led Clancy astray, toothless IRB chief referee O'Brien again displayed his inept handling of refereeing failure when he did nothing other than offer that "referees will be reminded of the protocol".

In a chilling reminder of O'Brien's failure to tackle the indept performance of English whistler Wayne Barnes in the 2007 RWC, Paddy remarked "the gaffe would not have any World Cup consequences, and didn't affect the outcome of the game".

Israel Dagg has suggested that the pass was not forward anyway, and that the incident which saw the local South African man (drafted in under questionable circumstances at the 11th hour apparently in contingency for such an opportunity) was really a moot point given the legality of the pass in the first place.

Graham Henry, as amiable and level headed as ever pointed out that if the pass was not forward then the try should have been awarded regardless of the efforts of the pair to conspire to find a reason to rule out the try.

It's clear that the sooner that POB is replaced with Steve Walsh, the better.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Wouldnt we need a 5th odfficial to review the video form another angle so to make sure the 4th official hasnt missed anything?
Or may be we can just rely on the crowd to shout forward pass every time there is one.

Perhaps all the spectators on TV should have vote now buttons.

Rugby fans:

1. Forward pass, scrum to the defending side
2. Try.
3. No try, ball held up, scrum to the attacking side.
4. No try, knocked forward over the line, scrum to the defending side

In Zid fans:

1. Try.
2. Penalty try for the tackler not releasing.
3. Penalty try, yellow card to the tackler for not releasing
4. Penalty try, red card to the tackler for not releasing

nottins wrote:In Zid fans:

1. Try.
2. Penalty try for the tackler not releasing.
3. Penalty try, yellow card to the tackler for not releasing
4. Penalty try, red card to the tackler for not releasing

5. Engage McCaw's cloaking device
6. Go straight to win (only to be used once per World Cup)

TheGreyGhost wrote:Yawn. Just reading about SBW fasting for Ramadan. No wonder the guy didn't attack the line once on Saturday, he was clearly blood-sugar low and about to pass out.

I'm beginning to believe he needs to miss out on the RWC.

Hard luck he's in the squad.

Clancy will still ref NZ v Tonga. The fear is that he will overcompensate in favour of NZ. He is a good ref though so probably not.

Referees are human... if we are not happy about them, get rid of them all and let a computer make all the decisions... I'm sure New Zealand wouldn't be No. 1 in the world and would play every game without a certain no. 7.

Rugby is a sport played by people and refereed by people, so they make mistakes - don't we all?

When is the last time you made a professional mistake in your work and publicly apologised?

There is a rather large competion happening in about 18 days... can't we all just soak up the rugby and be friends?

perhaps not

TGG,SBW didn't have to fast. There was a case involving a German Bundesliga player who was granted exemption from the fast as it would damage his performance and livelihood. I think SBW made the choice to fast.

Can someone convert Easter and Banahan to Islam please?

Fasting to lose some weight would do them some good.

Yeah - not saying that he had to fast. Just raising an eyebrow that he did, was allowed to, and was selected anyway.

I seem to recall that Michael Jones was dropped for not playing on Sundays.

His performances have been shoddy and he shouldn't be near the RWC squad. But then neither should Ali Williams or John Afoa.

...or Wayne Barnes

TheGreyGhost wrote:

biltongbek wrote:There was no time to release the ball carrier, he was three meters from the try line, if he was released he would have crawled over, in anyway the tackler and ball carrier was still in motion (due to momentum) when the ball was released.

To say he should have released the ball carrier is utter nonsense.

Geez, this one I can't believe.

Aucklandlaurie the only thing i can summise is that Clancy was to far from the goal line to see.

He wouldn't have been allowed to crawl over the line - he was already tackled. There was an english try ruled out for exactly that reason in the 6N. The tackle was complete, Dagg was on the ground and wrapped up by no. 21 - clearly you agree or he couldn't have been preventing him "crawling over the line". The tackler is obliged to release - which he never did as you point out.

For this reason it should have been a penalty try and a yellow card.

In any way - the grounding was clearly not in question. Why Clancy thought fit to even summon the TMO I have no idea. I guess he had it in mind to question the pass. Perhaps Clancy just really didn't know either of the laws. Stunning - this man definitely deserves to be stood down for the RWC.

If he released him midway throught he tackle the referee would have allowed it because he wasn't held then.

Greyghost, do me a favour watch this link on 53 seconds, and then tell me where you see the held on yellow card infringement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myh9xu7iFI8

TheGreyGhost wrote:Yeah - not saying that he had to fast. Just raising an eyebrow that he did, was allowed to, and was selected anyway.

I seem to recall that Michael Jones was dropped for not playing on Sundays.

Probably should have been dropped for playing for Samoa.

leinsterbaby wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:Yeah - not saying that he had to fast. Just raising an eyebrow that he did, was allowed to, and was selected anyway.

I seem to recall that Michael Jones was dropped for not playing on Sundays.

Probably should have been dropped for playing for Samoa.

Why? He has close cultural links with the country of his parent(s)'s birth. It wasn't against the regulations then

biltongbek wrote:Greyghost, do me a favour watch this link on 53 seconds, and then tell me where you see the held on yellow card infringement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myh9xu7iFI8

There's no penalty offence there.

nottins wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Greyghost, do me a favour watch this link on 53 seconds, and then tell me where you see the held on yellow card infringement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myh9xu7iFI8

There's no penalty offence there.

He isnt the TMO so you cant ask him, just stick to your decison man!

What ?

Peter made a funny!

nottins wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Greyghost, do me a favour watch this link on 53 seconds, and then tell me where you see the held on yellow card infringement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myh9xu7iFI8

There's no penalty offence there.

Sure there is. The tackler is required to release the tackled player. He doesn't. In fact he's still hanging on to him when the try is scored.

The tackler got to his feet.

No penalty on that play: The tackler was obviously trying to get to his feet as the tackled player tried to execute the pop pass immediately after the tackle. Not even sure why there would be discussion. Happens all the time.

It's all about timing lads. He deliberately delays rolling away to disrupt the play. That's illegal. He's the tackler, he can't play for the ball until he's released and is on his feet again. It's subtle, but cynical.

No.
Tackler does not deliberately delay rolling away. No illegality. Why make a big deal about this? There was nothing wrong.
Not subtle. not cynical. Not a problem.

Don't be naive. The guy deliberately loiters to disrupt the off-load, well after the tackle is completed. In fact after the try is scored, he's still lying all over him.

It's a blatant professional foul.

Seriously GG, i do wonder about you sometimes. There was absolutely nothing wrong with that. You wanted a yellow card and a penalty try for that....

Will you be consistent in you views when it comes to NZ players? If so Richie McCaw will go from being one of the best rugby players in the world to being a liability to the team as he would spend at least half the match in the bin with all his infringements.

doctor_grey wrote:No penalty on that play: The tackler was obviously trying to get to his feet as the tackled player tried to execute the pop pass immediately after the tackle. Not even sure why there would be discussion. Happens all the time.

So do forward passes

Si, signor.

"The tackler was obviously *trying* to get to his feet".

Pull the other one! Yep, I bet he was lying there, messing up the offload thinking to himself "If only I could stand up!!! why or why are my legs failing me??? this normally doesn't happen when I get up for a wazz in the night!"

Honestly, sometimes you take the comedy excuses too far.

I think Greyghost is bored at work. He has nothing better to do, I have come to the realisation he is just winding us up today.

There is no way on earth he can be serious about it, surely?

Does bring up a point though, we can all review the action again and agin endlessly and come up with different ideas as to waht happeend. Sometimes is nice to have a referee there to make a decision and get on with the game.

Yeah, sometimes I am confused............ Oh no, maybe not.

I could do with someone to review my spelling and typing though, feel free to go back and edit my posts for me.

Honestly, you must be right, mate.

I have to perfrom surgery in two hours to hopefully fix some poor guys shoulder (terrible mess to the shoulder AC joint). And now I am going to be thinking of this idiotic stuff............

doctor_grey wrote:Honestly, you must be right, mate.

I have to perfrom surgery in two hours to hopefully fix some poor guys shoulder (terrible mess to the shoulder AC joint). And now I am going to be thinking of this idiotic stuff............

Dont worry you can always leave the complicated bits to a TMO if your minds elsewhere

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Does bring up a point though, we can all review the action again and agin endlessly and come up with different ideas as to waht happeend. Sometimes is nice to have a referee there to make a decision and get on with the game.

Or a TMO.

SNAP!

I win.

So you are ignoring my question are you GG?
Didnt think that you would have an answer when confronted with the fact that if you were going to be consistent in your views then Richie McCaw would spend half a game off the field due to his constant infringements.

You are the ultimate one eyed supporter when it comes to things like that.

Sorry - missed your question altogether.

No, I think you're wrong. McCaw is just very good at his role. He rarely does anything actually wrong and mostly it's just opposition fans who don't understand the rules bitching on about his so-called "cheating". In reality he knows the rules better than most TMOs. He gets pinged on average I think twice a game, which is very low by comparison.

No i am sorry GG, he is constantly infringing and if you regard that tackle as a yellow card offence then McCaw would definitely spend long periods in the bin if they were to judge such infringements in your manner.

For which offence? Would you like to actually give an example? Or is this just more of this mystical airy-fairy generalising?

Yep. Thought so.

Richie McCaw is constantly slowing the ball down GG or do you not see that.

He gets pinged alot for it. My point being that if all referees were going to ref as strongly as you wish (yellow cards for such things) then McCaw would become a liability to the team instead of being one of the worlds best.

Or is it that you want ref's to be strong against every team that is not the AB's?

Yep. Thought so.

Ritchie has seen his fair share of yellows for cynically slowing the ball down near the goal line.

I'd just like to see some consistency applied to other players, if the TMO is going to ping someone, he should've got the knife out for no. 21 in this case.

Anyway, I feel like we're cluttering up the ref thread, which is a useful thing. Do you want to start a thread about How Richie McCaw deserves more yellow cards? we can debate it there if you want.

Aaaawwww GG, this is about reffing the game, thus on topic.
You want ref's to come down harder i just simply used McCaw as an example of what potentially could happen under your rules.
Either you cant see this or dont want to.

Greyghost, have a lookat this 28 seconds in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7iFiMrcen4.

Tell me what you see McCaw does legally here.

Just to help you out, look on our side of the ruck.

Nice one bilton. Under GG's new harder rules that would have been at least a yellow card.

No wait, he is an AB so it was just clever play. If it was a Sth African or any other player then it was a straight red.

yeah, we should have protested that try, a shame it wasn't our school teacher who was the TMO, he would have called play back, stopped the clock and informed the referee.

Nonsense. Utter nonsense.

McCaw is entitled to be there.

Sure it's one rule for the ABs another for everyone else. Everyone knows that.

No no no. There are different rules in different circumstances.

Those are two different circumstances.

The person in violation of the law (as clarified by the IRB) was Clancy and the dodgy local south african teacher (drafted in at the last minute under suspicious circumstances).

McCaw was merely being sublime.