England squad named

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14614058.stm

Forwards: (17)

Props: Dan Cole (Leicester, Age 24, 17 caps), Alex Corbisiero (London Irish, 22, 6), Andrew Sheridan (Sale, 31, 38), Matt Stevens (Saracens, 28, 34), David Wilson (Bath, 26, 18).

Hookers: Dylan Hartley (Northampton, 25, 29), Lee Mears (Bath, 32, 37), Steve Thompson (Wasps, 33, 67).

Locks: Louis Deacon (Leicester, 30, 24), Courtney Lawes (Northampton, 22, 9), Tom Palmer (Stade Francais, 32, 27), Simon Shaw (unattached, 37, 67).

Back row: Tom Croft (Leicester, 25, 25), Nick Easter (Harlequins, 33, 44), James Haskell (Ricoh Black Rams, 26, 36), Lewis Moody (Bath, 33, 67), Tom Wood (Northampton, 24, 7).

Backs: (13)

Full-backs/wings: Delon Armitage (London Irish, 27, 20), Ben Foden (Northampton, 26, 16), Chris Ashton (Northampton, 24, 12), Mark Cueto (Sale, 31, 52).

Centres: Matt Banahan (Bath, 24, 13), Shontayne Hape (London Irish, 30, 12), Mike Tindall (Gloucester, 32, 71), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester, 20, 1).

Fly-halves: Toby Flood (Leicester, 26, 41), Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon, 32, 86).

Scrum-halves: Joe Simpson (Wasps, 23, 0), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 28, 7), Ben Youngs (Leicester, 21, 12).

Only two specialist fly-halves and I seen nothing from Banahan that would make me think he should be going.

Pretty much as expected.
Would like to see Haskell get a run out at 8 ahead of Easter against Argentina.

Cymroglan wrote:Only two specialist fly-halves and I seen nothing from Banahan that would make me think he should be going.

"Initially pondering the option of only taking two scrum-halves, Johnson ultimately decided that an injury to one of them even three days before a game was "too big a risk" given the time needed for a replacement to fly to New Zealand and recover from the journey, raising the prospect of starting without a specialist on the bench.

"It is such a key position," he explained. "It wouldn't be fair on that player [the replacement] or the team to be in that position."

If a similar scenario befalls either Flood or Wilkinson, as it did the latter before the opening game of the 2007 tournament, then Saracens' Wigglesworth - who played a handful of games for Sale at 10 - would be the back-up option."

No surprises there . The most entertaining part of the announcement was Moody calling Bayfield a knob

Centres seem to be quite limited in attack, actually thought Flutey was your best option. Would Wilkinson at 10 and Flood as 12 work?

Englands best bet is for Wikinson to start and play their traditional 10 man rugby. Shame really when the back 3 is pretty exciting, but with no distribution in the middle, not sure how the gain line will be broken. As proven in the two games against Wales.

perand25 wrote:No surprises there . The most entertaining part of the announcement was Moody calling Bayfield a knob

When on earth did that happen?

Despite all the creative suggestions from 606, England still end up with Hape and Banahan. One would think Martin Johnson would know where to look for advice. At least the England centres will be going straight ahead and not sideways. Shame the back three will never, ever get the ball.

Is any one as suprised as me to see Simon Shaw in the squad.

I realy thought that Johnson would have left Shaw at home and taken some one Like Robshaw, Lets hope that Shaw as a cracking World Cup, lets face it, it will deffo be his last.

flankertye wrote:

perand25 wrote:No surprises there . The most entertaining part of the announcement was Moody calling Bayfield a knob

When on earth did that happen?

It was just after the squad was named on rfu.com when Bayfield introduces Moody and said something which i didnt catch but Moody replies ' your such a knob ' Bayfield then remarks something like ' yes it is ' it was quite funny although pretty unproffesional considering itcwas the official launch of the squad

I am surprised at Flutey missing out, he should of gone instead of Banahan as he can cover fly half, centre and he's also played wing. With Wigglesworth being touted as an emergency fly half surely Flutey would of been a better option than Banahan

But if Wigglesworth is needed as cover for Wilko or Flood, all is truly lost anyway.

Didn't Wigglesworth win his 1st england caps as a flyhalf?

It doesnt bear thinking about really . Can the stand by players be brought into the squad due to injuries once the tournament has started? if so i would imagine Hodgson or Flutey would be in,

England average squad age is 27.6. Tuilagi and Shaw would be the extremes on that one.

majesticimperialman wrote:Is any one as suprised as me to see Simon Shaw in the squad.

I realy thought that Johnson would have left Shaw at home and taken some one Like Robshaw, Lets hope that Shaw as a cracking World Cup, lets face it, it will deffo be his last.

Is Shawsy really the best option...much as we all respect the guy and feel he deserves it, it smacks of sentimentalism to me.

Gatts wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Is any one as suprised as me to see Simon Shaw in the squad.

I realy thought that Johnson would have left Shaw at home and taken some one Like Robshaw, Lets hope that Shaw as a cracking World Cup, lets face it, it will deffo be his last.

Is Shawsy really the best option...much as we all respect the guy and feel he deserves it, it smacks of sentimentalism to me.

I don't think I would ever describe Jonno as sentimental. Mental, sometimes. Sentimental, no. I think he's still got something to offer, especially as there may well be some tight moments in England's group where they will need to secure ball and close out games.

He can add power to a scrum, and would be useful for closing out games.

Well mental he may be....he has left out what seems to be the only creative centre England have....and in picking lumps in midfield he sends the obvious message: route 1 all day long. Having said that with Tuilagi in the mix route 1 might just work. England plan to batter their opposition into submission but just proved versus Wales that approach isn't working for them....all the creativity that we saw last Autumn seems to be on the back burner.

To me the squad looks a back light because Shaw and Lawes both get tired easily.


As for Bayfield he just despises Johnno, and the fued sems to have spread. I still maintain that he was Mikeyphil

I was expecting a bit more of a reaction than this - where is everyone?

No real surprises. England only really have one way to play, particularly with Flood in such poor form. It's not a WC winning squad, but hopefully they'll up their game and make some reasonable progress. The Telegraph are reporting that Tuilagi and Tindall might be the centre-partnership against Ireland, with the two of them rotating according to whether England are attacking or defending. I've alsways thought Tuilagi could play IC and, given where we are, this might even be the best partnership which can be selected (for all it's obvious limitations).

Taking Shaw is a risk as I'm not sure he can do 80 minutes. Supposing he's on the bench and a starting lock gets injured in the first minute?

Andrew Sheridan (Sale, 31, 38)
Lee Mears (Bath, 32, 37)
Steve Thompson (Wasps, 33, 67).
Tom Palmer (Stade Francais, 32, 27)
Simon Shaw (unattached, 37, 67).
Nick Easter (Harlequins, 33, 44)
Lewis Moody (Bath, 33, 67),
Mark Cueto (Sale, 31, 52).
Mike Tindall (Gloucester, 32, 71)
Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon, 32, 86).


10 "old" boys in the squad, how many of these guys are your first choice players, and are they all on form?

Looks like an Old boys world cup except for Oz Biltong. We'll have at least 10, Boks will have the same or more.

OK, let's see which of these older gentlemen are probable starters:
Andrew Sheridan (Sale, 31, 38) Possible
Lee Mears (Bath, 32, 37) No
Steve Thompson (Wasps, 33, 67) Possible, but not likely
Tom Palmer (Stade Francais, 32, 27) Yes
Simon Shaw (unattached, 37, 67) No
Nick Easter (Harlequins, 33, 44) Yes
Lewis Moody (Bath, 33, 67) Yes, if not injured
Mark Cueto (Sale, 31, 52) Yes
Mike Tindall (Gloucester, 32, 71) Yes
Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon, 32, 86) Yes

Out of 10 we have:
6 starters
2 possible
2 no

Didn't the 2003 squad have a number of 30+ guys?

How the hell isn't Riki Flutey going? He's England's best centre for heavens sake. Don't despair, by the six nations hopefully England will pull their thumb out and get a proper coach.

Pretty underwhelmed, no surprises and no change from how I've been feeling since the warm up games. Would have liked to see another speedy type winger in the squad. I don't think many of the other teams will be overly concerned with this squad. Basically I think the coaching staff are pinning their hopes on the team clicking as it did against Aus in the Autumn. Not totally impossible but highly unlikely.

LondonWelsh99 wrote:How the hell isn't Riki Flutey going? He's England's best centre for heavens sake. Don't despair, by the six nations hopefully England will pull their thumb out and get a proper coach.

Flutey is not going due to squad constraints and the fact that he has not been in any kind of form since the summer of 2009. Not unexpected but I think I would have taken him over Banahan (or Wilson and gone with 4 props). The only center in the original training squad with any creativity, England look very one dimensional in the centers.

England have now named the 30 man squad for the RWC.....England play Ireland this saturday in their last warm up game,If some one gets injured Can Johnson bring in other player/s, or is he now stuck with the squad that as been named?

I'd pick a poor Flutey over blinking Hape and Tindall any day, how the hell is Banahan anywhere near a test side is beyond me.

majesticimperialman wrote:England have now named the 30 man squad for the RWC.....England play Ireland this saturday in their last warm up game,If some one gets injured Can Johnson bring in other player/s, or is he now stuck with the squad that as been named?

He can replace a player for injury Maj, but the replaced player cannot return. His WC would be over.

For memory, the other squads I've seen have gone with four props. Does taking five signal anything in particular?

boomeranga wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:England have now named the 30 man squad for the RWC.....England play Ireland this saturday in their last warm up game,If some one gets injured Can Johnson bring in other player/s, or is he now stuck with the squad that as been named?

He can replace a player for injury Maj, but the replaced player cannot return. His WC would be over.

Thanks for clearing that one up for me.

boomeranga wrote:For memory, the other squads I've seen have gone with four props. Does taking five signal anything in particular?

Johnson said something like because of the attritional nature of the position he wanted more cover. Or something. It's on the BBC site. I also reckon that Sheridan is a bit of a wild card pick due to his injury proneness and lack of game time, so maybe an extra prop is sensible?

Gatts wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Is any one as suprised as me to see Simon Shaw in the squad.

I realy thought that Johnson would have left Shaw at home and taken some one Like Robshaw, Lets hope that Shaw as a cracking World Cup, lets face it, it will deffo be his last.

Is Shawsy really the best option...much as we all respect the guy and feel he deserves it, it smacks of sentimentalism to me.

I have been critical of Simon Shaw but fair play to him. He proved me wrong in the first England vs Wales game by having a good game.

Thanks Screaming. I'll go have a read.

It shows the intent of Johnno. If we get to the semis/final, we are in for a long snoozefest.

Flutey is desperately unlucky. Johnno has taken away the one flair player in our midfield.

OK, he isnt in form and has been injured, but then Hape has NEVER been in form in an England shirt and he doesnt have injury as an excuse.

I also cant see Lewis Moody lasting the tournament, which means that either Easter or Tindall would take over as captain...neither of whom I'd have in the starting 15.

Although it's pretty much what was expected, this 30 will hardly have the rest of the rugby world quaking in their boots....

I agree about Moody. Would be a shock if he lasts the tournament and if he starts each match. So this goes back to the discussion about back row players. If he does get injured, who gets brought in as the injury replacement?

Robshaw? Although, more likely Fourie...<groan>

screamingaddabs wrote:

boomeranga wrote:For memory, the other squads I've seen have gone with four props. Does taking five signal anything in particular?

Johnson said something like because of the attritional nature of the position he wanted more cover. Or something. It's on the BBC site. I also reckon that Sheridan is a bit of a wild card pick due to his injury proneness and lack of game time, so maybe an extra prop is sensible?

To me, Sheridan is just like Moody, except his spinal injuries are much more serious. I think he won't play every match and is a 50/50 proposition to last the tournament. I absolutely hope I am wrong here because I really do not like to see spinal injuries anywhere, with anyone.

I wonder if he will start on the bench and play out the last 20 minutes of each match? That might be the best plan for him and also be one terrific player when teams get tired.

cabbagesandbrussels,
I'd rather see Robshaw. But, if Moody does go out, my guess is England have cover at 6 and would look to your man Fourie as an openside. Not a joyous thought, eh?

I just don't think he gives us anything "extra".

I agree.
Would like to see more young talent coming through, especially as Robshow does have that combative edge to him which I like.

The way Jonnos going I think its more likely to be Back or Dallaglio

I've heard a few jibes now about the fact the average age is 27. I'd say that's an ideal average age. Experienced but not yet jaded. The old heads bring a lot to the group, whilst the youngsters provide enthusiasm etc.

In any case, for a world cup it should surely be the best in each position regardless of age. Whether or not the best have been picked is obviously up for debate but age is not really a concern I don't think. How old are the other squads anyway?

Age may not play a big part in a one off match but I think it will be a factor in the intense games during the world cup.

Or Peter Winterbottom or.............

Good Lord! Those are the centres? As Fraser (of Dad's Army fame) might have said: we're doomed!

I had a quick look at the Welsh and English squads and England are (on average) younger and more experienced. I was only quick so might be wrong. And the average number of caps will go up after this weekend by >0.5 (currently about 28 for Wales and 29 for England, ages are about 27 for England and 28 for Wales). Not really a massive difference.

screamingaddabs wrote:I've heard a few jibes now about the fact the average age is 27. I'd say that's an ideal average age. Experienced but not yet jaded. The old heads bring a lot to the group, whilst the youngsters provide enthusiasm etc.

In any case, for a world cup it should surely be the best in each position regardless of age. Whether or not the best have been picked is obviously up for debate but age is not really a concern I don't think. How old are the other squads anyway?

Average age of Irish squad is 26.2 apparently
So its younger than England despite all the talk of Ireland ageing etc.
I agree that too much of a fuss is made of all this ageing team/squad stuff anyway. Slow news day stuff really.