NZ World Cup squad named.

Fairly predictable given recent events
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/5492722/All-Blacks-World-Cup-squad-named

-Vito the real Bolter pulled from the Wellington team last week for SA.

-Boric gets in purely on reputation as has yet to play Friday

-Good to see Guilford in- rewarding for a very hard working season. Gear and Sivi just not doing enough.
Think Slade is a little lucky as Weepu can act at 10.

-No real 7 back up as Thompson struggled there last week so will have to improve or hope McCaw doesnt get injured.

Other than that. Pretty predictable.

Squad:

Backs: Mils Muliaina, Israel Dagg, Isaia Toeava, Corey Jane, Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Richard Kahui, Ma'a Nonu, Sonny Bill Williams, Dan Carter, Colin Slade, Jimmy Cowan, Piri Weepu, Andy Ellis

Forwards: Kieran Read, Victor Vito, Richie McCaw (capt), Adam Thomson, Jerome Kaino, Ali Williams, Brad Thorn, Sam Whitelock, Anthony Boric, Owen Franks, John Afoa, Ben Franks, Tony Woodcock, Keven Mealamu, Andrew Hore, Corey Flynn

No Gear, Sivi or Roco. 3 wingers who would get into any any other world cup squad (being English I'm not jealous, we'll have bananaman any day!). Does that mean Jane & Guildford will be first choice on the wings? (seeing as Dagg and Toeava are basically full backs who can play on the wing).

Suprised to see Afoa in ahead of Crockett.

Very suprised to see Adam Thompson, thought he was struglling to keep pace last week (gave away to many penalties)

Ali Williams? I know he was injured for a while but thought he too struggled last week.

We knew it would be, but that's a really good squad. I thought Boric was as good as gone. Crockett unlucky after a great season.

Woodcock is in for Crockett
Vito adds a lineout option that Messam doesn't
Boric better have a top game against the shackle draggers ,if he is fit.
Guillford Perpetual motion
Gear although he went a way and worked on his extra fullback obligations is out of form.
Toeava selected as a wing fullback
Williams (Ali variety ) was always going to beselected.
Sonny Bill selected to cover only one position has an element of risk.

Taylorman wrote:
Think Slade is a little lucky as Weepu can act at 10.

-N

GH said he would be coming off the bench, so long as Carter started and is a good under the high ball so he could slot into wing or full back or at 10.

Good to see Zac make it but worried about Thompson, shame Todd never had a run .

Rangiora
I think that's why they are taking three half backs , instead of say England that are taking 2.

Sbw is a bit lucky that no other specialist 12s have put their hands up. Hasnt really delivered and might star over lesser teams at cup. Hopefully doesnt get picked on that basis.

Gh has certainly figured on lineout battles as hes picked some real height across the forwards.

After a long wait this team doesnt really excite anymore with tbe actual naming of it. We just have some VERY experienced players out there.

As expected a mighty fine team.

aucklandlaurie wrote: Rangiora
I think that's why they are taking three half backs , instead of say England that are taking 2.

England are taking three as well.

More or less as I predicted this a RWC and Ted and co.have gone for experience and combinations.As I see it Whitelock/Thorn and Williams/Boric
are established pairings.Boric was alway going to be there if fit,its a bit of a risk.
The Rock has done no wrong,and is the hardest working wing in NZ,but has been out of favour with the media for two seasons.
Sivivatu has had along list of injuries,lacks form and Eye injury made him doubtful any way.both are off shore anyway post RWC.
Hosea Gear last season was brilliant and forced his way in,this injuries and lack of form told against him.Unlucky.
Nonu/Smith are the established mid field,SBW has had little chance to impress .BUT when he comes on he needs to make the line break BEFORE off loading.
Kahui has been one of the best centres in NZ for many years,but is a walking sick note,there was once talk of him at 12 outside Smith.
Cory jane was established pre-injury all he needed was form no problems.
Zac Guildford has done every thing asked of him,and has been great for the Crusaders deserves a run.
Slade is a work in progress,trained with the squad,knows all the moves,bringing in someone like Crudon at the last minute was never on.
Scrum halves no problem,Weepu as a starter gives an extra goal kicker.
Something nearly every Boks side do as do OZ there most likely SF opponents if they get that far.
Toeva VERY lucky,brilliant skills,but suffers the dropsies under pressure,but a TED favourite from way Back.
Hookers and props as expected,Afoa should be no where bear it,versatility
and mobility are useful.BUT a props main job is to SCRUMMAGE and it that aspect he isn`t fit to lace Wyatt Crocketts boots.
Last saturday he had a bath versus the Boks,and it effected the whole game.Crockett should have gone.
Vito over Messam,well?a specialist 7 is wanted but Dan Braid is injured,and Luke Braid or Matt Todd lack experience unfair to them.
Messam for all his skills and they are many is not number 8,there is a case for Hoerta as 6/lock cover with Thomson covering 8.
Thomson one of the best loosies in NZ ,especially at 6,in tandem with Read and McCaw,or Read and Kaino no problem.Outstanding lineout forward.
Dagg and Muliana automatic choices if fit.
As I understand the rules concerning injuries,outside the squad can`t be called up in the first three matches.There after injury replacements are allowed BUT the replacement replaces the injured player for the rest of the tournament.
So in the case of NZ in theory they could say have,Crudon or Berquist,Donnelly,Todd,Hika Elliott to parachute in if required.
ANY side losing there best player become more beatable in a RWC,and every side is trying to win there matches.
In RWCS teams like Samoa,Fiji.Tonga big physical teams target the big boys
teams.Especially if they try putting out second string sides against them.
Before you can win a RWC you have to get outof the group,a unexpected upset .Could mean a matter of biggest wins versus less likelyteams to survive.
Complancey can become a Banana skin,many teams you would expect to
beat elsewhere,may win in a RWC.
Overall this is a strong TEAM as opposed to the individuals,and there is a lot of flexibility to cover injuries too.

A while ago I said I didn't mind if either Sivivatu or Gear had the 11 jersey as they are both class. Now neither are going to. Having said that with Sivi's injury not giving him a chance and Gear being pretty quiet I can understand going for Guildford as he is proven this year.

Ali Williams needs to step up after a quiet game, Boric is a risk but obviously the selectors really rate him. Whitelock and Thorn are my first choice locks so I'd say Ali would get on the bench.

I never rated Messam in the AB shirt, and don't mind at all that Vito is going. Matt Todd would have been an interesting pick though. Yes he is inexperienced but so was Michael Jones in 87.

I can see Dagg playing 11 with Mils and Jane. Not only would we have three guys with the X factor on attack, but all three are recognised high class fullbacks and especially against the Boks this would be a fantastic option to have.

Commisserations to those who missed out, I'm sure they are gutted and I feel for them.

All the best of luck to the team and coaches, the selection is over and now all of NZ is behind them. Go get Bill, lads.

Spot on alan. largely a predictable bunch and almost boringly so after a fair bit of speculation.
Bit odd gh stating the form thing when it only applies to some. Some with poor form are there. Albeit on reputation.
some of the guilford critics here are just weird.
"Cant run in anything but a straight line with no one in front"?
"cant tackle"?
Geez not the player i saw all year. Popped up everywhere. Smashed matfield at one kickoff and singly cut down tryscorers from behind.
Anyway. 3N first. Looking forward to it.

Yeah disney the michael jones selection in 87 excited the whole country after that series of matches he starred in. I think the trial possibles he was just everywhere. Runs, tackles all at breakneck pace.
I guess thats the sort of selection im missing this year. Theyre all so experienced and even the youngest have had their every skill analysed. Theres no one thats going to do a jk or jones or lomu from virtual nothingness.

Just a very experienced bunch.
Perhaps thats why we might win it. Steady reliable experience a la 07, 03.

I think the chastening experience of 07 will be an advantage as they'll have not only the motivation to rectify that, but also more knowledge of what to do in those situations. England got dorked by us and then de Beer in 99, they were pretty filthy about that and they used that to their advantage four years later.

Guildford is like Habana (gee didn't Habana play well on Sat-shows the importance of kick chase even if the ball goes into touch) to me, I'm not too disappointed. If SBW gets a run then Zac will be screaming off his shoulder all day.

Anyone else think there may the possibility that Mils may not grab the 15 shirt? Jeepers Dagg looked good, and under big pressure as well.

Dagg was exceptional. Amazingly we're going to have a run of world class fullbacks stretching back to Glen Osborne in 95 when dagg takes over from Mils. Quite reassuring that!

No real surprises. I reckon though a call up to nick Evans will be on the cards if either Carter/Slade are put out through injury.

Gents, it's time for a bit of redemption!

Personally I prefer Gear to Guildford, I think he's the more dangerous and talented attacking player, and would give a better balance with Muliaina and Jane, but I think Henry likes having good allrounders on the wing, and Jane and Guildford are both players with extremely good basics.

It's certainly the squad to beat.

Mintie it's one thing having world class fullbacks, it's another picking them AT fullback, something our coaches have failed to do the last three cups!

I agree with FES, I like Gear more but Guildford is more industrious and I'm not too disappointed. Though a fit Sivi should have been in-shame about his injury.

Hope it's redemption, hope they take 24 years of anguish out on the teams they face one by one and give them all a hiding. Ha that's my biased Kiwi coming out-we may well stuff it up but I'd rather have our buildup and squad over anyone's. We've prepared as well as we can so just gotta wait and see now.

For Christ's sake please get McCaw and Carter through this weekend ok.

I'd have had Gear ahead of Guildford too (I picked the other 29 at least).

The average age of the squad is 27.5 - broadly comparable with some of the other squads. And the average number of caps is 38, the most experienced NZ squad ever.

Muliaina, Jane, Smith, Nonu, Guildford, Carter, Cowan, Read, McCaw, Kaino, Williams, Thorn, Franks, Mealamu, Woodcock - will this be the team selected to choke against France?

Its amazing the strength in depth that the AB's have when they can leave out players that would make it into any other squad.
They are are a fine team and will take some stopping.

Think so nottins, maybe a couple of alterations to occur before NZ dump England out of the QF then.

nottins_jones wrote:Muliaina, Jane, Smith, Nonu, Guildford, Carter, Cowan, Read, McCaw, Kaino, Williams, Thorn, Franks, Mealamu, Woodcock - will this be the team selected to choke against France?

Hopefully not Ali Williams, he was awful on Saturday - only hit 2 rucks in the 2st half, and butchered 3 backline moves by being in the way at 2nd receiver. SBW, who should have been at 2nd receiver, was involved in more rucks that Ali was ...

The nice thing about being in the same pool as France is a loss to them doesn't put us out. And the French aren't consistent enough to make it to the final.

Hard to see how Gear is excluded on the basis of a couple of solid performances, and yet SBW stays in the squad after being similarly unspectacular.

Ali Williams makes me despair, he just looked off the pace all season. His work rate was almost non-existent on the weekend and we have other line out options.

We needed specialist cover at 7, none of the options we have will get us out of trouble in a tough knock out match/final if McCaw is injured.

Disney, yeh it would be nice to play our world class
Fullbacks at fullback this time. If only we'd have known in 1999 that Tana would go on to become an all-time great centre, we may have put him there earlier!

Williams seems to divide opinion. For what it's worth (great buffalo springfield song) I feel it'll be Whitelock/Thorn for the big games. Maybe even Boric on the bench for said games too (Whitelock/Boric next year going forward could be a great combo). However it's nice knowing you've got someone with 60+ caps who has done the job in the past and could still do in this environment. Better than having Isaac Ross!

Agree with GG about a specialist 7. We need someone to combat Dusautoir, Pocock and Brussow and if McCaw is hurt then I'd like to have seen Todd there instead of Vito. Especially as Thomson was so inaccurate at the breakdown on the weekend.

Williams was ineffective so hopefully he'll get the gist of what he needs to to do from that game. I'm sure Henry would have rarked him up.

Also someone tell SBW to run at the line.

True Mintie-the most dangerous back 4 of all time and 3 guys out of position. WTF.

In Bryce Lawrence and ex-Kiwi Steve Walsh I think we've got experience and flare. Enough to see the competition out if the draw starts to look dicey. We've learned lessons there from the RFU.

Frankly I worry about our lack of a genuine specialist TMO though. Chris Pollock is a useful utility, both on the lines and beneath the sticks. But if we learned one thing from the weekend, it's that you need a guy who's willing to go beyond the call of duty when the chips are down.

The debate over the choice of backs is pointless ,every one has an opinion.
Cory Jane has been starting wing,and was the man in place.Sivivatu has been getting over injuries and lack of form.The fractured eye socket came at the wrong time.
Hosea Gear has had injuries,and loss of form and wasn`t the force he was 2010.
Dagg is back up and replacement probably to Mils an automatic choice,Guildford is the form winger,and creates mayhem poping up all over the field.
Toeva is utility,and will feature in the group stages versus theminnows probably.
The Forwards mix is good without being ideal what is more important is to vary the game plan,when required andtake points whenever they are available.
To win close ones ugly,thrugh the forwards,tactical kicking and goal kickingif thats what it takes.
Like it or not be pragmatic and go with the flow its an RWC.

Cant believe Crockett is out, good or bad news for Ulster that Afoa is going to the WC?

hmm..

Bad news for the Ulster scrum anyhow...

Alan gh reported this week that the last thing nz willl do is to be pramatic at this cup.
He has reiterated that last weeks gameplan was correct and it was the execution that faltered.
So just as pointless the wing argument is (and i dont think it is) so is expecting the abs to be pragmatic. Aint gonna happen.
Sure there will be lessons learned but generally we'll go out and play the same gameplan. Fast attacking hard defensively but perhaps with a few more smarts tucked in.
As i keep saying. We know no other way.

Well my 2cents worth on the all Black back line.

9. Weepu
10. Carter
11. Guildford
12. Nonu
13. Smith
14. Jane
15. Mills.

From what I've seen of John Afoa, I think he's capable of being first choice. Strong, big ball carrier and can run half the length of the field and score a try. Probably the best signing Ulster have made considering they aren't a big, rich club.

He's good around the field, but he's no first line scrummager. He has technical issues that are apparently impossible to solve.

I'd expect Ben Franks to be on the bench for the big stuff due to his superior scrummaging.

Biltong that's pretty much my backline, though Dagg instead of Guildford for me. Just so dangerous at present.

Wonder who the quickest would be from that lot. I know Toeava is fastest off the mark though from some years ago but Dagg in full flight looks quick almost Cullen like...

I think the thing going for SBW is simply that there are no other 2nd fives doing well. Personally I think he is a liability in the 22 but can squeeze into the 30.
Gear is a little too limited in my opinion and which means if he is not on fire then he is not so useful. The others have more versatility.
Toeava is a disaster waiting to happen I reckon and I hope he is not there for the big games.

I think if we start
Weepu
Carter
Dagg
Nonu
Smith
Jane
Mils

then we probably have our most talented/balanced group.
Cowan, Slade, Kahui would be the best reserve mix. With Carter covering 2nd five, Kahui Centre covering Wing, and Jane or Dagg fullback

nottins_jones wrote:From what I've seen of John Afoa, I think he's capable of being first choice. Strong, big ball carrier and can run half the length of the field and score a try. Probably the best signing Ulster have made considering they aren't a big, rich club.

Define big and rich.
OK we can't match the French but who can ?

As the CEO said a few months back our salaries are (now) on a par with Ospreys, Munster and Leinster which I understand puts up on a par with the top English clubs. Also a 18 million pound ground redevelopment will take place over the next 2 years, and we recently signed one of the highest value shirt sponsorship deals.

So really not sure who are these big, rich clubs of which you speak.

Big as in having a European pedigree which the likes of Munster, Leinster, Leicester and most of the French have. Rich, as in the French.

Understand now?

Sometimes i think we play word recognition games on these threads.

It would be very interesting to figure out how did a thread about the NZ world cup squad ended on French clubs and Ireland clubs.

Getting back on topic, Hosea Gear is now thinking about heading offshore. Missing out on the ABs could potentially halve his salary in NZ

nottins_jones wrote:Big as in having a European pedigree which the likes of Munster, Leinster, Leicester and most of the French have. Rich, as in the French.

Understand now?

Nope....
You mention pedigree which is a totally different adjective (Although unlike virtually all French clubs we have won the European Cup).

On the basis of your reply I would conclude that Ulster are as big and rich as anyone else bar the French which I have already conceded.

To be fair to our Kiwi posters this should be taken elsewhere so no more posts on this from me.