Groves did beat Degale - But the best fighter lost

I had Groves winning the fight by a slim margin.....but I think the best fighter lost.....(Not on the night)

Groves fought the best fight he could that and I think he outsmarted Degale but I believe that....

1. Degale has the best style to make it in the big time...

2. Degale is the more durable.....

3. Think Degale has more scope to improve...the naturally more gifted fighter..

4. Degale will take from the fight more.....and improve...

5. Degale will win any time in the future because I don't think Groves can improve on that performance and Degale will learn from it and bring an extra dimension should they meet in the future..

As I said Groves won but Degale has more to offer......

The only point I would potentially take issue with truss is the fourth because in all the interviews post fight I saw with Degale he seemed in denial about the result claiming he deserved the nod and the result was a robbery. Have to question if this is indeed his attitude how much he will learn from the result, although in terms of the general point that Degale is the more talented of the two think most would have to agree with that.

Groves showed up Degale a bit, for all this supposed "talent" he seemed awfully average and incompetent in dealing with Groves.

Groves appears to have a brain, Groves doesn't appear to possess much between the ears.

Could argue Groves was the best (and only) technical fighter that Degale has faced and Degale came up short. Doesn't exactly make me think Degale could be anything more than a world title worked challenger.

Good point Rowley but how much of it is front who knows...

Hasten to guess with this guy that the one you see on screen is probably not the same one who reflects when in his own company...

Brighter than he looks no doubt..

But maybe he is not..bags of talent though.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I had Groves winning the fight by a slim margin.....but I think the best fighter lost.....(Not on the night)

As I said Groves won but Degale has more to offer......

Seems to be the common view amongst a lot of people, Truss. Have to say that I'm not all that convinced, though. Much gets made of DeGale's hand speed, but Groves made light of that on May 21st and actually seemed able to beat him to the punch and get his combinations off before 'Chunky' had even reacted. The lack of nous and adaptability in his game is a worry - granted, I don't think any of us thought that Groves was capable of fighting the disciplined back foot fight that he did for the full twelve rounds, but even so, DeGale seemed clueless as to how to counter it. All telling signs that while DeGale may be a good frontrunner, he'll struggle against the better opposition when he can't simply outspeed them.

At best, I can put Groves' and DeGale's world title ambitions for the future on an even level. Many people seem to be taking a "oh, the Groves loss doesn't really matter, he threw it away, he'll learn" attitude with regards to the Groves fight, but I don't think that's healthy. The fight clearly showed that DeGale is lacking in some key areas, and I'm not sure the usual old clichés of southpaw stance, amateur pedigree and fast flurries of punches on their own are going to be enough to make up for them.

I don't think DeGale should necessarily be considered the better fighter, but that's just me.

I generally agree.

I watched it on Youtube and thought it was very close and gave Groves the win by a very small margin but think Degale will have the better career.

Fair point...

Think he has the better tools out of the two to succeed though......and is more complete....think he is the better fighter.

At the time they met Groves had the better resume and had looked more impressive overall in his fights prior to Degale.

The best man won.

What about the fight where he was all over the shop and looked like getting stopped....

Don't recall Degale being in that situation..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What about the fight where he was all over the shop and looked like getting stopped....

Don't recall Degale being in that situation..

Anderson.

He looked rubbish in America too.

KInd of rubbishes the view he was more impressive..

Thought Paul Smith was a quality win for Degale....especially in it's manner.

Scottrf wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What about the fight where he was all over the shop and looked like getting stopped....

Don't recall Degale being in that situation..

Anderson.

He looked rubbish in America too.

But Degale has look supreme in all his fights?? I never said Groves had always looked brilliant, I said he had looked better the Degale, overall.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What about the fight where he was all over the shop and looked like getting stopped....

Don't recall Degale being in that situation..

Anderson.

He looked rubbish in America too.

But Degale has look supreme in all his fights?? I never said Groves had always looked brilliant, I said he had looked better the Degale, overall.

How? DeGale looks the more complete fighter and hasn't looked like losing other than the Groves fight. He's dominated pretty much every fight. Groves has looked vulnerable in a few.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What about the fight where he was all over the shop and looked like getting stopped....

Don't recall Degale being in that situation..

I agree with your overall opinion Trussy, but I'd say Groves has been matched much better and tougher than Degale thus far. I always felt Smith was very very over-rated, and would be a relatively easy nights work for either of Groves or Degale.

I would say that I agree in general with the original poster's points. Degale seemed very confused by what Groves was doing in through the first 6 rounds, but to be honest if he's just let his hands go a bit more like he did down the stretch, he probably would have won. Unless Degale really does fail to learn the lessons from this fight, I can't see Groves having a better career overall. In terms of Physical gifts Degale has a clear advantage over Groves and I think he showed decent boxing instincts in his other fights, he was outwitted by a team that know him and his style VERY well. What Groves did show is that he is currently much more mature than Degale, fortunately for Degale maturity is something that can be taught, unlike natural athleticism.

Anderson came so close, couldn't finish and burnt himself out in the process.

Scottrf wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What about the fight where he was all over the shop and looked like getting stopped....

Don't recall Degale being in that situation..

Anderson.

He looked rubbish in America too.

But Degale has look supreme in all his fights?? I never said Groves had always looked brilliant, I said he had looked better the Degale, overall.

How? DeGale looks the more complete fighter and hasn't looked like losing other than the Groves fight. He's dominated pretty much every fight. Groves has looked vulnerable in a few.

Degale has looked clueless on more than one occasion. He only like hit when fighters come straight at him to fight. He has shown when that does not happen, and they have the ability to fire back, the can make him look silly and ponderous.

At this point I think Groves in the more complete fighter. That is not to say Degale wont go on to achieve more.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Degale has looked clueless on more than one occasion.

Which fight? Because that sounds like something you might say when you don't really have an example.

As much as I like Groves cant see him doing an awful lot in the division at world level and i have my doubts that Degale is as good as he thinks he is. Maybe things will change in a few years but they certainly have no chance against the top players in the division anytime soon

In raw ability and potential I would probably agree that De Gale has more. However I think the fight showed that whatever the gap between the two is at present, its not all that big. If De Gale was better by a handy margin then I would hve expected him to do better notwithstanding Groves tactics or gameplan.

I have to agree with 88Chris here, I think DeGale has and still is being talked up rather alot given his relative inexperience in the pro-game and given his recent defeat.

Whilst I dont argue that he is talented im not sure he is quite as good as some people (especially Johnny freakin Nelson) would have you believe! He posseses good hand speed..but quicker than Dirrell or Ward..I wouldnt say so. He is accurate with his shots, although when it comes to finishing a fight he has looked predictable at times..tends to always go for the right straight then just throws left hook after left hook! Again im not going to argue, he certainly will get better but as has been pointed out, only if he doesnt believe his own hype. He looks and acts like the kind of person who thinks he already has all the tools to win world titles & with that attitude he wont go far. A change in trainer will certainly be needed when it comes to the next big step.

As for George Groves right him off at your own peril..whilst he doesnt do one thing absolutly amazing he is an all around solid fighter. He has a decent dig, has shown he can box on the outside & on the inside. Has also shown he has alot of heart and a relatively good chin (yes he has been knocked down but he got back up)...

In a way these two remind me off Witter (degale) & Hatton (Groves)...we know which one was the technically better boxer but we also know which one ended up hitting the higher heights. Through hard work & determination and a never say die attitude...3 things that Groves has over DeGale by a country mile for my reckoning.

My prediction is a similiar career outcome to the afromentioned boxers. Think Groves will go further..although im not saying he will do what Hatton did!

Groves biggest weakness agaisnt Degale seemed to be that he looked like a middleweight fighting a super middleweight, but he's young and he'll get bigger and stronger, so I think he might be more dangerous in the future. He already has the brain and skills. He's shown he can learn from a performence. He'll grow into the division over time, as I said he already has plenty of practical ability.

I wish people would just give Groves credit he won the fight, Degale had his first fight against a boxer with real technical skills and was left looking like an Amateur. Most of Degales best and most damaging strikes were with his head, elbow and shoulder and points should have been deducted, in fact it was only after stunning Groves with a very hard illegal shot that Degale even got into the fight. It was an example of what happens when a fighters ego is allowed to get out of control when he has been fed a diet of stiffs and then him getting found out by his first real live opponent. I have a feeling Degale will not do much in the future and he might turn out to be a middleweight A Farce, Groves it must be remembered is a couple of years younger than Degale and i think could go far but only if he is brought on slowly because at the moment a better fighter than Degale will be too much for him.

hogey wrote:I wish people would just give Groves credit he won the fight, Degale had his first fight against a boxer with real technical skills and was left looking like an Amateur. Most of Degales best and most damaging strikes were with his head, elbow and shoulder and points should have been deducted, in fact it was only after stunning Groves with a very hard illegal shot that Degale even got into the fight. It was an example of what happens when a fighters ego is allowed to get out of control when he has been fed a diet of stiffs and then him getting found out by his first real live opponent. I have a feeling Degale will not do much in the future and he might turn out to be a middleweight A Farce, Groves it must be remembered is a couple of years younger than Degale and i think could go far but only if he is brought on slowly because at the moment a better fighter than Degale will be too much for him.

Just not true and he was a star amateur btw. DeGale lost the fight because he never threw enough punches plain and simple. If he throws more he wins. I had it a draw but at a push narrowly to Groves.

I know he was a star Amateur (just like Audrey), but sadly for him he fought like he was still one.
It doesnt take Angelo Dundee to know if he throws more and lands more than Groves he would win, the fact is though Groves superior footwork and skills stopped Degale being able to get off his punches as easily as he was able to against the slow plodders he had fought previously.
I hope Degale learns and comes back to achieve something in the sport but i just dont think he is as good as many including himself think he is.

hogey wrote:I know he was a star Amateur (just like Audrey), but sadly for him he fought like he was still one.
It doesnt take Angelo Dundee to know if he throws more and lands more than Groves he would win, the fact is though Groves superior footwork and skills stopped Degale being able to get off his punches as easily as he was able to against the slow plodders he had fought previously.
I hope Degale learns and comes back to achieve something in the sport but i just dont think he is as good as many including himself think he is.

Groves did nothing to stop DeGolde throwing his footwork was nothing special. DeGold throws more punches he wins but he wanted to engage Groves and that was his mistake he wanted Groves to trade with him. When Groves never traded he stopped throwing. That was the best Groves could do against DeGold and some people still had DeGold winning. I like Groves he's a talented guy but he's not James DeGale.

OK mate, its pointless arguing over it because it seems most Degale fans are almost as deluded as the man himself. Bottom line is they fought and the best man won and that man was George Groves, which was quite an achievement considering the referee allowed Degale a free pass to show us the sweet skills of his full repertoire of illegal blows with any part of the body that was available.

hogey wrote:OK mate, its pointless arguing over it because it seems most Degale fans are almost as deluded as the man himself. Bottom line is they fought and the best man won and that man was George Groves, which was quite an achievement considering the referee allowed Degale a free pass to show us the sweet skills of his full repertoire of illegal blows with any part of the body that was available.

Groves was at his best and DeGold was well below par. Groves scrapes a decision that was very tight and debatable. Like Forch said on Sky sports news today it's up to the referee to judge it a foul if it starts getting a bit dirty in the ring.

Groves is younger and the more rounded fighter but still has a lot to learn, Deloser was all hype just found out when it mattered.
Froch is right it is up to the ref to sort out the illegal stuff in the ring shame he didnt do his job on the night it might have been a much easier night for Groves if both fighters had been forced to follow the rules of boxing, but in fairness when you are told how wonderful you are everyday then find yourself getting outboxed im sure its very easy to slip into the desperation of using the Head, Shoulders and Elbows to try and turn the fight.

hogey wrote:Groves is younger and the more rounded fighter but still has a lot to learn, Deloser was all hype just found out when it mattered.
Froch is right it is up to the ref to sort out the illegal stuff in the ring shame he didnt do his job on the night it might have been a much easier night for Groves if both fighters had been forced to follow the rules of boxing, but in fairness when you are told how wonderful you are everyday then find yourself getting outboxed im sure its very easy to slip into the desperation of using the Head, Shoulders and Elbows to try and turn the fight.

You're talking as if Groves won by a wide margin. It was close and if their was a re-match DeGale would still be the bookies favourite.

It doesnt mean anything who the bookies make favourite that just goes to show the way that hype can blind the average British boxing fan.
At the end of the day they fought Groves won so you and Mr Degale especially need to deal with it and move on before the bitterness eats him up.
Groves is 2 years younger than Degale and will only get physically stronger and improve with age and experience so if and when they fight again i would expect to see a more conclusive victory for Groves, however i think Degale will have been found out long before a rematch happens due to Frank Warren trying to push Degale along to fast.

Degale won it by a couple rounds...

Although it could have easily been a Draw there is no way Groves won that fight..

I predict Groves getting TKOed by Degale for the Euro belt... unless he ducks the fight.

As I mentioned earlier, Discipline and maturity can be taught and conditioned, unlike natural athleticism. Lots of things can happen between now and the next time they fight (if they do). If Degale fails to take the lessons from the defeat I could only agree and say that Groves (who would likely have improved to some degree) would win more decisively than the first time. However, i think if Degale manages to take the lessons from the defeat and learn them well, he would beat Groves in the future due to his greater physical gifts.

Degale is passive/aggresive, not a true warrior by any means, that is the difference between him and fighters like Benn, Eubank.

De Gale won that fight IMO and there should be a rematch coz it was close. Lots of people think De Gale won it so they should fight it again to see proper.

hogey wrote:I know he was a star Amateur (just like Audrey), but sadly for him he fought like he was still one.
It doesnt take Angelo Dundee to know if he throws more and lands more than Groves he would win, the fact is though Groves superior footwork and skills stopped Degale being able to get off his punches as easily as he was able to against the slow plodders he had fought previously.
I hope Degale learns and comes back to achieve something in the sport but i just dont think he is as good as many including himself think he is.

I have to agree with hogey. You might aswell say if he landed a clean left hook, he would of knocked him out. The point being he didnt throw enough punches and that is partly due to Groves footwork. Kev I suggest you watch the fight again if you say his footwork wasnt nothing special. He was constantly on the move and didnt let DeGale set and sit on his punches. I didnt see DeGale having any trouble letting punches go against Smith?

He is hyped way too much and that will be his downfall IMO. But as its been said on here, he still thinks he won this fight in his interviews and I dont think will learn from this defeat which is a concern.

According an article on boxing scene today he has admitted his tactical faults in that he was not aggressive enough and is working on being more aggressive and cutting off the ring.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

hogey wrote:I know he was a star Amateur (just like Audrey), but sadly for him he fought like he was still one.
It doesnt take Angelo Dundee to know if he throws more and lands more than Groves he would win, the fact is though Groves superior footwork and skills stopped Degale being able to get off his punches as easily as he was able to against the slow plodders he had fought previously.
I hope Degale learns and comes back to achieve something in the sport but i just dont think he is as good as many including himself think he is.

I have to agree with hogey. You might aswell say if he landed a clean left hook, he would of knocked him out. The point being he didnt throw enough punches and that is partly due to Groves footwork. Kev I suggest you watch the fight again if you say his footwork wasnt nothing special. He was constantly on the move and didnt let DeGale set and sit on his punches. I didnt see DeGale having any trouble letting punches go against Smith?

He is hyped way too much and that will be his downfall IMO. But as its been said on here, he still thinks he won this fight in his interviews and I dont think will learn from this defeat which is a concern.

Hatton wanted a re-match with Mayweather and Judah is complaining about Khans body shot so the fact DeGold thinks he won the fight is a fair shout he isn't the only one. I've watched the fight a few times and firmly believe that we seen the best of Groves and DeGold at his worst. Groves scrapes a debated decision enough said really.