Ireland Team vs England - 27th Aug 2011

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Ireland Team:
15 - Geordan Murphy (Leicester)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
9 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)

1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) Captain
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:
16 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
21 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
22 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)

England team:
15 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints),
14 Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints),
13 Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers),
12 Mike Tindall (Gloucester Rugby, captain),
11 Mark Cueto (Sale Sharks),
10 Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon),
9 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens),

1 Andrew Sheridan (Sale Sharks),
2 Steve Thompson (London Wasps),
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers),
4 Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers),
5 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints),
6 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers),
7 James Haskell (Ricoh Black Rams),
8 Nick Easter (Harlequins).

Replacements: 16 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), 17 Matt Stevens (Saracens), 18 Simon Shaw (Unattached), 19 Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), 20 Joe Simpson (London Wasps), 21 Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), 22 Delon Armitage (London Irish).

what's Earls like at defence in the 13 channel? he's going to have to cope with Tuilagi

Thompson did play in the 6N. He scored a try iirc. I cant see Sheridan getting the better of Ross or Cole getting the better of Healy. Lawes v POC will be massive imo. As for SOB, you could argue we have actually a stronger backrow on the pitch than during the 6N.

Like i say i dont disagree with your prediction but i think the fact that ireland have had a different centre partnership and a different half back partnership in each of their games if of more consequence.
As regards our back three i think it is actually more dangerous with Murphy there instead of Kearney. More dangerous for both teams though!

I also dont think the Sexton/ROG thing will be an issue. ROG is playing some lovely stuff at the minute.

Turkster wrote:what's Earls like at defence in the 13 channel? he's going to have to cope with Tuilagi

Hard to say, he doesn't play there all that much. It'll be a test for him; Tuilagi is so physical you absolutely must get your positioning, alignment, technique in the tackle absolutely correct. It's good that he'll be tested ahead of the World Cup. Constitutes a positive for me.

Thompson came off the bench, he didn't start.

I agree though, the midfield will be of more consequence. I don't really rate either midfields, but I think that England will have the physical edge and Wilkinson will be able to harvest enough points to edge it.

I don't think it's going to be a classic.

MMC wrote:

greenandpleasantland wrote:It won't be decided in the front row, it'll be the breakdown where it's won and lost. If England persist with their strategy of just committing 1 or 2 players (usually after sending one-off runners into the defence) then we'll either be turned over or the ball will be so slow we'll be able to do nothing with it.
Looking at that selection i think we will keep going with the same strategy which is why they've picked Wilkinson to kick for touch and bang over drop goals??!!
I think Ireland will win this one as they will be more effective at the break-down and will be entirely happy to keep the England game slow as their pack can easily live with ours.
I can only hope that Ireland put some bad kicks in for Foden to return and that the Irish chase is poor.
To sum up.....me not happy

So you'd have preferred Flood over Wilkinson and what else?
With the pack selected there's nothing wrong with playing 10 man rugby, at least until they've worn Ireland down at bit.

Obviously the scrum will be very solid but with Owens refereeing you can't be guaranteed to get penalties from it (unless he gets injured and Poite is promoted from the sideline). The lineout will be key though and Johnson has selected Croft and Lawes to wreak havoc on Ireland's lineout.

I think it looks like a very strong England team. You could argue for the inclusion of Wood ahead of Haskell at 7 to help out at the breakdown but the bench is there to be used so I don't think that's much of an issue really.

My issue is how England approach the game. We seem to have a very prescribed way of playing with players running to be in a certain position at a certain time, and not seeing what is going on and playing accordingly. Whilst game plans are always important they need to have flexibility and must be implemented by players who know when to stick to them and when to change them.

If we play the structured slow game we have seen so far we have to play 10 man rugby and kick for touch(and so play Wilkinson). We can go at Ireland's lineout but i think that their line-out is usually pretty strong.

I think that until we can get players (and coaches) who learn and play the game with a degree more freedom and intelligence we will always have trouble.

I agree with your last point there FES. There is too much riding on this to be a classic. In some sense i think that is why Kidney has gone with ROG.

Could it be he might want to see if Sexton can close out a game in the way ROG does? Maybe bring him on with 20-15 mins left to see if he can do it or if we are losing to see if he can do what Rog has also done when we have been in that position before.
Too bad its on sky

Do people think Earls is being tested at 13 as he will be benching in the world cup? Trimble and Bowe starting, we could see Earls come off the bench to cover 13 or the wings.

It is likely (if form is anything to go by) that Earls will bench at the RWC. He is obviously viewed as our backup 13 though and given the lack of gametime for BOD (which worries me massively) it is important he starts this one imo.

I've only seen Earls a little in the HC, and when he plays for Ireland. I have to say I do think he's distinctly ordinary and over-rated.

i think earls is in for a very testing day against tuilagi. I have never been too impressed by earls defense at center. I dont think his decision making is the best but hopefully he proves me wrong on this as he is clearly favored as our second 13 at this point.

Im not so sure Earls is a weak link. His passing has been poor but he wasnt found wanting defensively against Marty in Bordeaux. Tuilagi is all potential. Only seem him in the flesh once and he was outplayed by guys with less experience than Earls.

Standulstermen wrote:It is likely (if form is anything to go by) that Earls will bench at the RWC. He is obviously viewed as our backup 13 though and given the lack of gametime for BOD (which worries me massively) it is important he starts this one imo.

Wouldn’t worry about BOD’s gametime, I would worry about his fitness, but if he’s fit he’ll be grand.
After the Lions he sat the first 5 or 6 rounds of the league out, his first game back was the 30-0 win over Munster.

MDB wrote:i think earls is in for a very testing day against tuilagi. I have never been too impressed by earls defense at center. I dont think his decision making is the best but hopefully he proves me wrong on this as he is clearly favored as our second 13 at this point.

I think that's a little unfair. Granted it's your opinion so I can't say you're wrong but I will say that I disagree. Earls' defence has always been fairly solid and has certainly improved over the last 2 seasons in particular.

My problem with Earls of late is his mental strength. He's shown that he can throw some lovely passes, as he did in Bordeaux. He's shown that he has sublime footballing skills and pace to burn. But he's also shown that when his confidence is knocked he goes to absolute pieces. It's a real shame as he's such a great talent. I really hope he plays well on Saturday - for his own sake.

Earls did do well in Bordeaux in defense. Didn't offer anything in attack though. He's kinda like a kicker in some ways if he misses the first few kicks (tackles) he starts missing more

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Earls did do well in Bordeaux in defense. Didn't offer anything in attack though. He's kinda like a kicker in some ways if he misses the first few kicks (tackles) he starts missing more

It's his attacking game that falls apart though pete, not his defensive game. I thought he was equally as bad as TOL against France for instance.

Hmmm not sure, dropping passes and high balls happens to him as well when he goes in on himself at times

I didn't think Bod would play and I wouldn't have picked him. He has a botched shoulder and the whole England team is full of big lumps. No point in wrecking his shoulder more on big tackles on Saturday.

Outside of the first Lions warm up match has Earls had a problem under the high ball? If he has I haven't seen it.

I hate the way people have knee jerk reactions. Yes Earls had a poor game on Sat but he had good game in Bordeaux. That and the fact he is a natural talent for almost any position in the backs and has consistently delivered good performances for both Munster and Ireland means he has earned his place.

red_stag wrote:Outside of the first Lions warm up match has Earls had a problem under the high ball? If he has I haven't seen it.

Totally agree with this.

Yeah Earls gets a bit of stick alright. I think it is more frustration for people as he can be quite inconsistent.
Though can he be blamed for that when he is moved all over the back-line?
Hopefully he will give us and himself a boost this Sat and make Tuilagi look silly.

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:Yeah Earls gets a bit of stick alright. I think it is more frustration for people as he can be quite inconsistent.
Though can he be blamed for that when he is moved all over the back-line?
Hopefully he will give us and himself a boost this Sat and make Tuilagi look silly.

Yes please!! Would love this.

I really wish they would keep him in one position at this stage, it's making it very hard for him. Personally I want him at 11 but understand others want him at 13 or 15.
Think he could really benefit with some stabiity.

There was one game where he got moved to 15 think it was 2010 6n but can't be sure, he dropped a few and also tried to take a tap penalty and knocked it on.

I do agree 100% that the guy is a sick talent, just wish he'd stay in one position and also toughen up mentally

BlueMuff wrote:I hate the way people have knee jerk reactions. Yes Earls had a poor game on Sat but he had good game in Bordeaux. That and the fact he is a natural talent for almost any position in the backs and has consistently delivered good performances for both Munster and Ireland means he has earned his place.

BM,
I'm a massive fan of Earls and his natural talent can't be doubted. With regard to earning his place I'd say it's not so clear cut.

Trimble has taken advantage of all the opportunities he's gotten and I'd say that as of right now it's he who's earned the spot. Earls was poor in attack against France in Bordeaux and he was awful last weekend. Granted that's just 2 games but with someone of the calibre of Trimble fighting him for the spot it only takes 2 games to lose your place.

My biggest problem with Earls isn't his defence, or his passing, or even his decision making though, it's the fact that almost every time he's gone into contact lately he's spilled the ball. That's been a feature of his game for a while now, as much as it pains me to admit it.

MMC wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:I hate the way people have knee jerk reactions. Yes Earls had a poor game on Sat but he had good game in Bordeaux. That and the fact he is a natural talent for almost any position in the backs and has consistently delivered good performances for both Munster and Ireland means he has earned his place.

BM,
I'm a massive fan of Earls and his natural talent can't be doubted. With regard to earning his place I'd say it's not so clear cut.

Trimble has taken advantage of all the opportunities he's gotten and I'd say that as of right now it's he who's earned the spot. Earls was poor in attack against France in Bordeaux and he was awful last weekend. Granted that's just 2 games but with someone of the calibre of Trimble fighting him for the spot it only takes 2 games to lose your place.

My biggest problem with Earls isn't his defence, or his passing, or even his decision making though, it's the fact that almost every time he's gone into contact lately he's spilled the ball. That's been a feature of his game for a while now, as much as it pains me to admit it.

I was referring to seat on the place. Agree that he may not make starting 15 but I would no issue what so ever if he started anywhere in the backs.

For me his best position is 13 and like everybody else I would like to see him nail down a spot. Interesting to see where he slots in at Munster next year with Barnes making the break through.

BlueMuff wrote:

MMC wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:I hate the way people have knee jerk reactions. Yes Earls had a poor game on Sat but he had good game in Bordeaux. That and the fact he is a natural talent for almost any position in the backs and has consistently delivered good performances for both Munster and Ireland means he has earned his place.

BM,
I'm a massive fan of Earls and his natural talent can't be doubted. With regard to earning his place I'd say it's not so clear cut.

Trimble has taken advantage of all the opportunities he's gotten and I'd say that as of right now it's he who's earned the spot. Earls was poor in attack against France in Bordeaux and he was awful last weekend. Granted that's just 2 games but with someone of the calibre of Trimble fighting him for the spot it only takes 2 games to lose your place.

My biggest problem with Earls isn't his defence, or his passing, or even his decision making though, it's the fact that almost every time he's gone into contact lately he's spilled the ball. That's been a feature of his game for a while now, as much as it pains me to admit it.

I was referring to seat on the place. Agree that he may not make starting 15 but I would no issue what so ever if he started anywhere in the backs.

For me his best position is 13 and like everybody else I would like to see him nail down a spot. Interesting to see where he slots in at Munster next year with Barnes making the break through.

In that case I agree completely. For me his seat on the plane was never in doubt.

McGahan said he was looking for a centre still but hadn't managed to narrow it down yet, not sure if that will be at the expense of barnes or earls at 13?

I expect to see a significant improvement in our lineout with POC, DOC, Ferris and Heaslip all as possible targets.

It'll be interesting to see how Flannery holds up on his first start in what seems like ages. It's been very disheartening to see his calves go after 15-20 minutes in his comeback games. Fingers crossed it seems like that issue has finally been rectified.

It was interesting to Wallace being lifted in the lineout in a photo gallery of one of the training sessions. I wonder will we see an all-out assault on England's lineout on Saturday. One thing's for sure. If they can make hay against jumpers of the quality that England have then it bodes well for the world cup.

BlueMuff wrote:I hate the way people have knee jerk reactions. Yes Earls had a poor game on Sat but he had good game in Bordeaux. That and the fact he is a natural talent for almost any position in the backs and has consistently delivered good performances for both Munster and Ireland means he has earned his place.

Yeah earls is class but is misfiring a bit lately. I think Earls is capable of hitting a level above most but he hasn't really got there yet. Hope he does though cause when he pins his ears back and has a bit of confidence he can be sublime.

SOB was lifted against france twice in the lineout
which was a shock and it shows that they are trying to get as many options as possible

D24tress wrote:SOB was lifted against france twice in the lineout
which was a shock and it shows that they are trying to get as many options as possible

They must've really identified it as one of the areas that needed the most improvement because it was one of the few aspects of our play that had improved against France, based on the 2 previous games where it was a shambles.

At least the management are getting these things right before the world cup and not in the middle of it.

I'm still concerned about what we're actually doing with the ball when we do get it though. Say what you will about Eddie O'Sullivan but we looked irresistible going forward at times when he was at the helm.

EDIT: To clarify - I'm not saying I want EOS back! I'm just saying that our backs used to actually look like they knew how to open up a defence before. Under Gaffney we've looked clueless in that regard.

Yeah not Gaffney's biggest fan I gots to say. Can't remember the last Irish back play we had apart from that tiny Sexton-BOD-Heaslip dummy wrap thing and that wasn't really a fully fledged move just looked like telepathic understanding between the 3

Gaffney has stifled Irish back play for a few years now. Just like he stifled the Leinster backs.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:Yeah Earls gets a bit of stick alright. I think it is more frustration for people as he can be quite inconsistent.
Though can he be blamed for that when he is moved all over the back-line?
Hopefully he will give us and himself a boost this Sat and make Tuilagi look silly.

Yes please!! Would love this.

I really wish they would keep him in one position at this stage, it's making it very hard for him. Personally I want him at 11 but understand others want him at 13 or 15.
Think he could really benefit with some stabiity.

There was one game where he got moved to 15 think it was 2010 6n but can't be sure, he dropped a few and also tried to take a tap penalty and knocked it on.

I do agree 100% that the guy is a sick talent, just wish he'd stay in one position and also toughen up mentally

Pete that game was last year against france in the six nations. He knocked on once or twice and missed a tackle but didn't drop any high balls. The quick tap was him trying to rush the game because we were so being so badly beaten. The whole team had a disaster that day and bod was absolutely destroyed by basteraud and france were on the front foot all day. I think that is also the match were flannery decided to try to kick palison out of the stadium.

Maybe kidney is playing earls at centre because he has decided he is go to take a huge chance and go for a earls-bod partnership. Unlikely but I live in hope.

Think this series has been very unfair on earls, five matches without playing in the same position twice in a row now. How is he supposed to play at his best if you move him every week?

Nevin Spence handed Tuilagi his ass on a plate and isnt even in our squad, Im not worried for Earls in the slightest.

"I think that is also the match were flannery decided to try to kick palison out of the stadium."

hahahahahahahahah!!!

Yeah i remember it was that one now, yeah pretty much everyone was poor that day. and yes it has been grossly unfair on Earls

Ferris is going to smash those soft English Ladss

MMC wrote:

D24tress wrote:SOB was lifted against france twice in the lineout
which was a shock and it shows that they are trying to get as many options as possible

They must've really identified it as one of the areas that needed the most improvement because it was one of the few aspects of our play that had improved against France, based on the 2 previous games where it was a shambles.

At least the management are getting these things right before the world cup and not in the middle of it.

I'm still concerned about what we're actually doing with the ball when we do get it though. Say what you will about Eddie O'Sullivan but we looked irresistible going forward at times when he was at the helm.

EDIT: To clarify - I'm not saying I want EOS back! I'm just saying that our backs used to actually look like they knew how to open up a defence before. Under Gaffney we've looked clueless in that regard.

I recommend to everyone to listen to newstalks rugby on off the ball pod cast from last night. Emmet Byrne had some quite revealing things to say about EOS and his pre WC preparations.

I'm going to the game on sat, first time to the Aviva, very excited.

Two questions:-

1) do you know who's favourites with the bookies?
2) Can you suggest a good pub near the stadium? one which is hospitable to us English, friendly and with the opportunity for some good natured banter prefered (though i'm sure they are all like that)

Depends which entrance you are going in buddy? The Gasworks is pretty good and that is up beside Grand Canal dart station. There is a hotel place that does good food as well and puts on some old rugby matches just down the road from the elverys at the stadium

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Depends which entrance you are going in buddy? The Gasworks is pretty good and that is up beside Grand Canal dart station. There is a hotel place that does good food as well and puts on some old rugby matches just down the road from the elverys at the stadium

cheers, i think its the east stand for what that's worth.

Will be watching my annual GAA game with the inlaws on sunday, no idea who's playing or which version it is but i always love the punch ups (on the pitch that is)

leinsterbaby wrote:

MMC wrote:

D24tress wrote:SOB was lifted against france twice in the lineout
which was a shock and it shows that they are trying to get as many options as possible

They must've really identified it as one of the areas that needed the most improvement because it was one of the few aspects of our play that had improved against France, based on the 2 previous games where it was a shambles.

At least the management are getting these things right before the world cup and not in the middle of it.

I'm still concerned about what we're actually doing with the ball when we do get it though. Say what you will about Eddie O'Sullivan but we looked irresistible going forward at times when he was at the helm.

EDIT: To clarify - I'm not saying I want EOS back! I'm just saying that our backs used to actually look like they knew how to open up a defence before. Under Gaffney we've looked clueless in that regard.

I recommend to everyone to listen to newstalks rugby on off the ball pod cast from last night. Emmet Byrne had some quite revealing things to say about EOS and his pre WC preparations.

I just listened to it there. Very interesting I must say. In fairness to GT and Byrne they're pretty clued in.

They were spot on about not risking BOD's shoulder against the English centres. GT also predicted that they'd go for this Tindall and Tuilagi duo. It was quite funny to hear them describe the Hape / Banahan combo as "not even a first cousin to an international midfield".

They also made a good point about France, and in particular about how well developed their gameplan is as a result of choosing their squad early.

All in all, definitely one to listen to.

Yeah if you get to elverys near where you have to take your seats head away from the stadium, go straight through a small roundabout and there is a little hotel on the right less than 100 yards after that

It opens up its bar to everyone shows a few games and the craic is pretty good. Enjoy the game buddy (but I hope you lose )

Islingtonv2 wrote:I'm going to the game on sat, first time to the Aviva, very excited.

Two questions:-

1) do you know who's favourites with the bookies?
2) Can you suggest a good pub near the stadium? one which is hospitable to us English, friendly and with the opportunity for some good natured banter prefered (though i'm sure they are all like that)

Every pub round the Aviva will welcome you. Go to the den on Landsdowne road and I'll sing swing low with you win or lose. Anywhere on Baggot street would be good too.

MMC wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:

MMC wrote:

D24tress wrote:SOB was lifted against france twice in the lineout
which was a shock and it shows that they are trying to get as many options as possible

They must've really identified it as one of the areas that needed the most improvement because it was one of the few aspects of our play that had improved against France, based on the 2 previous games where it was a shambles.

At least the management are getting these things right before the world cup and not in the middle of it.

I'm still concerned about what we're actually doing with the ball when we do get it though. Say what you will about Eddie O'Sullivan but we looked irresistible going forward at times when he was at the helm.

EDIT: To clarify - I'm not saying I want EOS back! I'm just saying that our backs used to actually look like they knew how to open up a defence before. Under Gaffney we've looked clueless in that regard.

I recommend to everyone to listen to newstalks rugby on off the ball pod cast from last night. Emmet Byrne had some quite revealing things to say about EOS and his pre WC preparations.

I just listened to it there. Very interesting I must say. In fairness to GT and Byrne they're pretty clued in.

They were spot on about not risking BOD's shoulder against the English centres. GT also predicted that they'd go for this Tindall and Tuilagi duo. It was quite funny to hear them describe the Hape / Banahan combo as "not even a first cousin to an international midfield".

They also made a good point about France, and in particular about how well developed their gameplan is as a result of choosing their squad early.

All in all, definitely one to listen to.

.

Good on you, glad you enjoyed. It's a great show and I always really enjoy it even though I don't really rate Thornley.

Cracking, cheers fella's, always good to get some local knowledge. Enjoy the game and remember its just a RWC warm up so the result doesn't matter - thats a line i'm probably going to be sick of saying by sunday night.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Nevin Spence handed Tuilagi his ass on a plate and isnt even in our squad, Im not worried for Earls in the slightest.

And Tuilagi outplayed BOD in the Heineken Cup. Where does that leave everyone?

Bit unfair to pick on Tuilagi for one match in his breakthrough season. He and Earls are both really exciting players so it should be a good match-up.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Nevin Spence handed Tuilagi his ass on a plate and isnt even in our squad, Im not worried for Earls in the slightest.

So because a completely different player handed off Tuilagi in an A international played in February when his team was on attack, you have no worries over Earls' defence against Tuilagi?

Makes sense to me, I think...

Lets wait and see, if I have to eat humble pie on saturday night I will do.

By the way I wasnt just talking about his defense, I was responding to the idea that Earls was a 'distinctly ordinary' player.

Also, the way Tuilagi shoots out of the line don't be surprised if Earls is the one who will have the English defense worried, I also think hes due a good game.