Welsh Team To Face South Africa (Assuming all are fit and well).

First topic message reminder :

Three weeks out, however things are begining to crystallise for September 11th. This is my team to face the Boks.

15 Halfpenny

14 North
13 Roberts
12 Hook
11 Williams

10 Jones
9 Phillips

1. James
2 Bennett
3 Jones

4. Wyn Jones
5 Davies

6 Lydiate
7 Warburton
8 Jones

Bench:
Mitchell, Burns, Faletau, Powell, Knoyle, Davies, Williams.

Reasoning:

1. Gethin- forget it at moment.
2. Bennett - best of bad bunch, but good in both England tests.
3. Faletau - need Ryan in the big one, Toby's time will come.
4. Jones/Hook - help me out here. I just think Roberts and Davies aint working. We need Hooks flair but the question is whether Jones is going to be up for this first game. All thoughts welcome.
5. Byrne, no form to merit being in the squad nevermind the team.


What do people think?

To be fair nobody really knows where SA is atm . they played 2 games with a dirt tracker side then barely lost to the on form Aussies in the first game in months for many of the first team springboks. The win against the Blacks shouldnt really count considering they played a near second string AB side.

In my view the game against the Aussies was a good sign for the Boks despite the loss . 10 Boks on the day hadnt played since the super season some 8 weeks back yet they managed to dominate the Wobblies for 50m then lost steam inevitably

Bullsbok, no I dont think we'll know where they are until half time of the Wales game to be honest.

All we do know is that they're current world champions, have a team full of experienced world class players who've been there and done it. They know how to win games, they're tough as sh*t and they look like they've got the taste of winning back.

Missing Juan Smith is going to be a problem for SA (but not as much as a problem it would be for most other nations to lose a player of such calibre in the backrow).

As has been recycled many times (but still holds true), the power of this Bok team currently is in the forwards. Its where they've dominated Wales in previous encounters and is why im so excited to see what Wales can do this time around. Its the perfect acid test for the young backrow, warburton especially, we actually have a potentially world class player who'll lead with actions, how we've needed someone like that to stand up and take the rest of the pack with them.

Still, I think the Boks will have too much, but the game will tell us a lot about how Wales are going to do at this world cup.

Any more news on Gethin?

Considering halfpenny has played fullback only a couple of times. Why would Wales pick him ahead of Byrne, Priestland or even James Hook.

Jamie Roberts has hadmore time at fullback for Wales and the blues than halfpenny.

One person I certainly wouldn't leave out against SA is Bradley Davies, he has the size and aggression we will need.

I'd take a punt on Rhys Priestland at FB, he's a fairly big lump and seems to have a good temperament.

For me, there's a case for playing Knoyle, Phillips is likely to get distracted against SA.

Hookie at FH.

Of course SA have got to be favourites for this one. It would take a remarkable performance from the Welsh pack for Wales to win, with major surgery having taken place on our set-piece since the warm-up games, for starters.

Phillips is an extra flanker, would be daft to leave him out, knoyle would be swamped

I reckon Gats will pick. MP, JH, SW, JR, JD, GN, LB.

For Gatland it would be a big gamble to play 1/2p or RP at 15 for this game so he either puts Hook or Byrne there - so it will be Byrne as he is the most experienced and moving Hook creates less midfield continuity

Personally I would play 1/2p at FB but maybe Byrne will suddenly get his world class game back together. Fingers crossed.

AlynDavies wrote:

wales606 wrote:Seriously? Wales shouldnt give up in the first game of the WC, in such a tough group we cant afford to throw any games.

I think Wales can beat SA, the lineout isnt a huge problem, I expect it will improve before the first game, and Wales have played Matfield before and almost beat SA the last 2 times.

Wales vs SA in a world cup is certainly not a warmup game.

Do you think Gatland should play a weak team and tell the players, you have no chance because they are far better than you, you have no chance at the WC - will that help them beat Fiji and Samoa?

I think Wales will run the Boks close, but lose by less than 10 due to SA pounding the breakdown and Steyns kicking.

Wales need to beat 3 teams of Samoa, Fiji, South Africa and Namibia to progress to the quarters where Australia will knock us out.
Personally I'd keep our marquee players back for more important games and play the percentages. I picked a very macho, aggressive team which will front up and tackle that's what you need to have any chance against South Africa. Basically our best defenders, and players wont wont go backwards, that;s our best chance for the game.

as a supporter id be disgusted with not putting out strongest possible team to win a major test match, and this is a world cup ffs! is that what you d really prefer, us to lose to SA then scrape by the other 3 and go out in the quarters like pussies. ive always supported Wales through thick and thin, and i have to say that might be one of the only things i can think of that would lose interest (probably not but something would be lost)
I love rugby as much as any of you but to think that winning is the only thing that matters is to have truly lost what the game is about (apart from perhaps the very top professionals) I realise im probably in the minority, but last WC when we played Fiji i was watching it on my birthday and though disappointed i really enjoyed watching a great game of rugby.
im in the very lucky position to have come over to NZ to watch the rugby and follow Wales around and see this beautiful country. this is the trip of a lifetime and will obviously leave me skint(not quite ) but for me worth every penny. Unless the above happened, for me there is no disgrace in playing your hardest and giving your all but losing to a better team. Turning up on the WORLD stage and representing your country and behaving like cowards WOULD be a disgrace.

biltongbek wrote:I wish someone would concede the fact that south africa plays rugby as well, and don't just kick every thing.

Lies damned lies and statistics!!....they only ever kick, even when they are about to score a try

They are called Springboks because the Springbok is known for kicking it's young in the head repeatedly just for the fun of it

Come on people, it's the last day of the win a Russia RWC top today, so get your entry in here, it will only take you 30 seconds...

https://www.606v2.com/t11894-win-a-signed-rwc-jersey

Well judging by the comments made on Scrum V last night I guess the side will look pretty much like this

James
Bennett (that still hurts)
A Jones
AWJ
Davies
Lydiate
R Jones
Warburton

Phillips
Hook

Williams
Roberts
JD
North

Byrne

Bevington, Burns,Charterris,Faletau,Knoyle,Priestland,Sc Williams

How do welsh fans feel about the injury to Gethin Jenkins? Is it a ready made excuse or will it have no significant effect on the game as you'll be scoring pushover tries from the halfway line?

dg,

I know a lot will say its mind games etc but IMO we have been badly mis-led on how bad some of the injuries are.

There seems to be serious doubts over Stephen Jones and Jenkins so whilst I can understand not chucking them in on Sunday it's hardly going to get easier with Samoa and Fiji in the group.

As players and coaches alike, we all know that if there is any hint of an opposing player carrying a knock then you target him.

I can see Samoa sending every man and his dog down Jones' channel if he plays.

I thought Jones being injured was a blessing by the way welsh supporters were saying he's nearing retirement? And what happened to Dan Biggar? Thought he was supposed to be "better than Carter"?

deadgoat wrote:I thought Jones being injured was a blessing by the way welsh supporters were saying he's nearing retirement? And what happened to Dan Biggar? Thought he was supposed to be "better than Carter"?

Better than Carter haha now that really is stretching the bounds of reality.

Most want Hook to start at 10 but when a fully fit Jones is still a valuable asset to us in the WC due to his experience and ability to play a tighter controlled game that we maybe need against the Samoans and Fijians.

I would start with Hook but the option to bring Jones of the bench IMO would be a very good option.

The problem with Jones being on the bench is if you are losing the game, bringing him on wont turn things around for you guys. He should start, help to ensure that you guys aren't blown out of the park then let Hook run things in the last 20-30min to win you the game

dg,

I suppose it depends on what style you want to play form the off. Do you want to be conservative and play it safe then push on in the lasy 20 or

Start off with a bang hopefully get a fair lead then look to close the game out.

Wales have been quick out of the blocks in their last few games against us but always blow it in the 2nd half, cant remember what Jones contribution was, if any, in either of those 2nd half performances. If he's been subbed off before the turning of the tide then he should play the full 80 or come on as a non-impact sub. If he's been part of the choke then his experience is worthless and Hook should play the full 80 or come on as impact sub

DG you are right that we have been quick off the mark against you, which is unusual for a welsh dide used to playing catch up. However, this squad has shown recently that it gets stronger as the game goes on and therefore I think we wont have problems in that area. With that said I think we are too lightweight and not street wise enough to get near the Boks. Boks by 15 for me.

RubyGuby wrote:DG you are right that we have been quick off the mark against you, which is unusual for a welsh dide used to playing catch up. However, this squad has shown recently that it gets stronger as the game goes on and therefore I think we wont have problems in that area. With that said I think we are too lightweight and not street wise enough to get near the Boks. Boks by 15 for me.

Could be a sign of improved fitness and a development of a ruthless streak...or it could be a sign that you've faced sides who lack fitness and self-belief themselves? Your backs are decent but they wont see enough of the ball as our pack will massacre your forwards, I think this game will be a massive learning curve for the young Warburton and it would actually do his budding career a world of good to have his ass handed to him on the world stage

I see a 15 point defeat which I think is realistic - Our backs IMO are at least a match for yours and you clearly haven't watched much of Warburton - He may be a lone forager in the welsh backrow, although Lydiate is up to this task but I can assure you that his ass, so to speak will not be handed to him on a plate. We don't have enough grunt in the 2nd row and our front row without Rees and Gethin are far less effective. That and the collected spirit and confidence of the Saffers will see them through with something to spare. What will the SA back row be for this match?

Rubyguby, most likely Burger, Brussow and Spies.

As a combination they are quite new, only 5 tests, but we won 4 of those 5.

You're right Ruby I haven't seen much of Warburton, but I've seen enough from welsh fans over the years to know that the players they hype up are never actually that good (Powell, A Jones, Biggar, Hook, 1/2 P, Sha... )

They might be newish but they pack a lot of grunt - Lydiate and Burger looks a good match up but if Ryan Jones plays he will struggle with the speed of Brussow and Spies. If we miss any first up tackles then Spies will exploit that and gaps will start appearing, I think that is the likely scenario.
If Wales are really serious about fronting up here I am expecting fists in the first 10 minutes and Davies and Bakkies the most likely duo next to Spies and Philips. It's showtime, let's bring it on.

deadgoat wrote:You're right Ruby I haven't seen much of Warburton, but I've seen enough from welsh fans over the years to know that the players they hype up are never actually that good (Powell, A Jones, Biggar, Hook, 1/2 P, Sha... )

Then maybe you'd be better off judging them by watching them

biltongbek wrote:Rubyguby, most likely Burger, Brussow and Spies.

As a combination they are quite new, only 5 tests, but we won 4 of those 5.

If Alberts were to start in place of Spies I'd say we would have the best backrow on the planet now that Read's is crocked for the ABs

DG "but I've seen enough from welsh fans over the years to know that the players they hype up are never actually that good"

DG "If Alberts were to start in place of Spies I'd say we would have the best backrow on the planet"

Do you have any welsh blood in your ancestry DG, are you sure you're not actually deadsheep?

RubyGuby wrote:Then maybe you'd be better off judging them by watching them

Fair enough, mate. The breakdown is probably your best bet at getting an advantage and that will depend entirely on the ref (any idea who's taking charge of this game?) and how much they hate SA

RubyGuby wrote:DG "but I've seen enough from welsh fans over the years to know that the players they hype up are never actually that good"

DG "If Alberts were to start in place of Spies I'd say we would have the best backrow on the planet"

Do you have any welsh blood in your ancestry DG, are you sure you're not actually deadsheep?

I fail to see how my "Alberts/Best backrow" in the world statement is false?

South Africa vs Wales in Wellington
Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)
Assistant referees: George Clancy (Ireland), Vinny Munro (New Zealand)
Television match official: Matt Goddard (Australia)

With Barnes reffing it might be a 0-0 draw with about 12 players left on the field at the end. IMO Barnes always leans toward the heavyweight for safety and hence I think you guys will have the advantage all over the field if you can keep your discipline. Warburton leads by example as a Captain but his weakness is that he does not talk to the ref enough (if that is a weakness which I think it is)

"I fail to see how my "Alberts/Best backrow" in the world statement is false?."

Then that confirms that you do have welsh blood in you. By the way, you just finished 3rd in your local competition as well.

RubyGuby wrote:South Africa vs Wales in Wellington
Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)
Assistant referees: George Clancy (Ireland), Vinny Munro (New Zealand)
Television match official: Matt Goddard (Australia)

With Barnes reffing it might be a 0-0 draw with about 12 players left on the field at the end. IMO Barnes always leans toward the heavyweight for safety and hence I think you guys will have the advantage all over the field if you can keep your discipline. Warburton leads by example as a Captain but his weakness is that he does not talk to the ref enough (if that is a weakness which I think it is)

I'd hope that the ref always gives the benefit of the doubt to the dominant pack, damn was hoping we'd get a fellow Saffer in as the TMO in case WB misses any forward passes or have the ABs enlisted them for all their games?

RubyGuby wrote:"I fail to see how my "Alberts/Best backrow" in the world statement is false?."

Then that confirms that you do have welsh blood in you. By the way, you just finished 3rd in your local competition as well.

We usually save ourselves for the biggest occassion, what exactly are Wales saving themselves for again?

what exactly are Wales saving themselves for again?.

The after life by the look of it! Good luck on Sunday - enjoy the banter

I think this one will be very close actually and is the pick of the opening games. If the BOK's underestimate Wales then I think an upset could be on the cards.

I think SA will win but it could be close.

roddersm wrote:I think this one will be very close actually and is the pick of the opening games. If the BOK's underestimate Wales then I think an upset could be on the cards.

I think SA will win but it could be close.

You can put your house on it that SA won't under estimate Wales.

The Boks will see this game as one they have to improve on from their last match vs the All Blacks.

They will want to make sure that their defesive organisation is better, they will want to ensure they don't miss first time tackles. Fourie du Preez in specific had a poor game against the All BLacks and would want to prove that he should still be the number 1 half back. Yu can expect Pierre Spies to have some powerful runs because he knows his place is under threat from a very physical Willem alberts.

This game is all about self belief for wales I feel, they need to believe in themselves that they are capable of winning, they know that the front 5 is going to be bullied, they have to make a stand and really front up for each other and not take a backwars step.

Oh, and gatland needs to keep his gob shut and not wind these damn saffers up! we've got enough on our hands as it is.

Wales are capable of winning this one but they'll have to be better than against England as they won't be able to defend against the Boks the way they did against England.

If they can get some kind of set piece platform then they are in with a shout. When Wales are confident then they are very dangerous and they sound very confident right now.

If Adam Jones and Gethin Jenkins are fit then this will be very close indeed.

Did you have to mention the G word....................damn

roddersm wrote:Wales are capable of winning this one but they'll have to be better than against England as they won't be able to defend against the Boks the way they did against England.

If they can get some kind of set piece platform then they are in with a shout. When Wales are confident then they are very dangerous and they sound very confident right now.
If Adam Jones and Gethin Jenkins are fit then this will be very close indeed.

Yeah, perhaps too confident.

I think their plan will be is to throw everything at us in the first 20, it would be interesting to see what happens to their confidence and how they handle it if they keep running into a brick wall.

Thats why it's exciting Biltong. Certainly SA are favourites but Wales have a very talented group of players and if they are right mentally then they are in with a shout. They've gave SA some tough tests in recent years but if they aren't on song they could get smashed for sure.

biltongbek yes us Welsh may be guilty of thinking that we are better than we truly are but you seem to be suffering from it also.

Cymroglan wrote:biltongbek yes us Welsh may be guilty of thinking that we are better than we truly are but you seem to be suffering from it also.

Just for the sake of the conversation, help me out by what you mean?

What part of it did you not understand ?

"you seem to be suffering from it also"

Make no mistake, I understood what you said, I would like you to base it on facts.

You have heard it many times before so no need to recycle the same stuff.

I'm not a wum I'm just a rugby fan so don't confuse me with others please.
My belief is and it's purely personal of course'.
I believe that the gap between South Africa and Wales has closed considerably in recent times.
I'm not saying that Wales are going to win but I truly believe that we have a very good chance of doing quite well against you I would not be surprised if we won.

Time to re-join the fray and welcome deadgoat its always good to have more backup

most likely backrow will see Alberts starting with spies and Brussow coz Burger has zero gametime but will start the rest of the World Cup .As for Welsh chances well as long as they keep talking up a storm they'll hype the Boks up enough . I really dont get this new found confidence and how it applies to the Boks ,Wales has lost to an under-strength Bok teams in the last 3 games but somehow the tight scoreline has bred the belief that they can now defeat a full strength Bok side in the WC.That plus beating England and a rusty Puma side ,someone mentioned "they've stood up well and beat the forward oriented teams" so should hold their own against the Springboks. Somehow i doubt facing England and Argentina is quite like facing the Springboks but i'm not an international player so i dont know

Cymroglan, I have no problem with you beleiving in your team, You said I am too confident, or suffering from being too confident.

For the past few weeks I have heard a countries fans tell me that Wales are going to win. I have said this a number of times that the team they will face on Sunday will be a totally different kettle of fish.

I have not once said we will thrash Wales, I have said based on past history, past results and the fact that the Boks showed passionand hunger for the first time in 2 years should not be confused with the rag tag, unmotivated performances seen over the last two years.

Where am I being over confident?

It looks like Stephen Jones might not be fit. Is Hook the back up 10?

I actually think Wales have a better chance if they play Hook at 10 and throw caution to the wind in this game. They'll get a 2nd bite of the cherry against Samoa and I think they really need to keep the ball in hand and be positive.

If they try and take SA on in a tight game then they'll come of second best I feel. Phillips can't get dragged into a confrontational battle with the SA backrow either, he needs to get the ball away quick and get on with his job.

biltongbek I did not say you were too confident What I said was that both set of fans are guilty of believing that our sides are better than we truly are.