Tigers vs Chiefs - AP Game 03/09/11

It all kicks off this Saturday, back to club rugby and the Aviva Premiership, yes the Jeff is back.

Unfortunatley I'll be missing this game (it's not on tv so I can't record it and on Saturday at 3pm I'll be pulling on the red and black of Shepshed RFC, my local social rugby team). However, it's a slow day at work so lets have some predicted teams and score predictions as the games between Tigers and Chiefs last year were crackers with Tigers only just managing to come out on top in two close games. Tigers are going to struggle in the early part of the season as they are losing 11 to the RWC and have Crane, Newby, White, Camilio (21 year old prop) and Parling all injured as well as a couple of others carrying knocks.

Likely Tigers team;
1.Stankovitch
2.Chuter
3.Brookes
4.Kitchener
5.Skivington
6.Mafi
7.Salvi
8.Waldrom
9.Grindal
10.Ford
11.Tait
12.Allen
13.Twelvetrees
14.Hamilton
15.Morris

Subs: Bucknall, Hawkins, Bower/Harris, Slater, Woods, Young, Staunton, Smith.

Chiefs team predictions?

I thought Tait moved to Leicester to nail down a single position at 15?? I guess with injuries though, that may change.
Like the look of that 2nd row.....
Interesting to see how the likes of Johnson will target Ford early!

That's still a very strong side. To have 3 THs out and still have someone of the quality of Brookes playing shows the strength in depth you have.

But surely Young has to start ahead of Grindal?

Only a few more days to go and we can all get our fixes again!!

Young picked up a knock at the start of pre season and so hasn't played as much as Grindal. Add to that Grindal's very assured performance against Lyon and he may well nick the 9 shirt in the short term, Young did show up better in the friendly vs Notts though so that is a tough decision for Cockerill, Staunton's lack of fitness will probabley mean he will get no further than the bench but the idea of 22 year old Micky Young partnering 18 year old George Ford won't impress Cockers too much he'll want one experienced half back in there to begin with.

It's a physical and mobile side, some young players will have to step up and having a very interchangeable back three with Morris, Hamilton and Tait all capable of switching between wing and fullback should give us plenty of running options.

Hi HKC

Whats the latest down at the Shed, I haven't heard any news coming from Glaws,

Its a shame JSD didn't make the RWC, but I expect you're not to bothered as he can play for Glaws from the off.

Hi HERSH, long time no speak, how the devil are you?

I see that Donkey Attwood has started to regain fitness! I'm gutted for Sinbad, but he's going to be motivated to prove a point this season, which is no bad thing for us. I'm really looking forward to the 24th


Sam, I hadn't realised Young had picked up a knock so it makes sense. I would be interested to see the stats of how many games Grindal and Young have started over recent years. As whilst Young is much younger, if I had to guess he would be more experienced in terms of game time - but I stand to be corrected on that point.

Young may well have more game time but Grindal has been exposed to high level games in the HEC and is knows the players around him and all of the calls etc so it maybe that although, he is far less dynamic he will offer steadier guidance for the inexperienced Ford.

True. I presume that whilst Young was bought as a back up to Youngs he needs to depose Grindal first. You will have seen a lot more of Grindal than me, but I've just never rated him. I've always felt he takes too long to get the ball out and puts undue pressure on the 10.

If Haydn Thomas is fit for Exeter, whoever starts for you will need to be up for a scrap. I was really disappointed when Glaws let him go a few years ago, he's he type of niggly scrum half that causes no end of problems for his opposite number.

I don't rate Grindal but I can see the logic that is likely to be used by Cockerill who will end up picking him. Cockers will probabley want to try and stress the point to the new lads that just because they've signed for Tigers doesn't mean they have automatically earned the right to wear the shirt. He's old school.

I don't much about how the Exeter team are going to line up but with Scaysbrook and Johnson they'll be a pain at the breakdown. Niggly scrum halves may not be needed on the day as although, the bank holiday weather was miserable the ground is still hard here in Leicestershire. Could be a day for running rugby (not the day for Grindal either I suppose).

If it is a day for running rugby then you'll have an advantage. If Exeter play like they did last season then spreading it wide quickly will stretch their defence. Glaws were able to beat them on a decent day by getting it wide as the defenders there tended to be forwards, so the fast backs would take them on.

who will be the tigers goal kicker?

I would imagine Ford with Twelvetrees taking long shots although I haven't seen much of Ford so I'm not sure what his kicking is like.

Twelvetrees has been kicking the points during pre season. Ford has neither the range of Twelvetrees nor his experience of kicking in AP matches so it's more sensible to give the young guy a little less responsibility to shoulder. I would think Ford will kick from hand though as his placement of the ball is O'Gara esque where as Twelvetrees can smash it the length of the pitch he lacks accuracy.

The problem with that HKC is that the Welford Rd pitch isn't very wide and outside breaks are possible but aren't that frequent.

Sam why not play Twelvetrees at fly half, Anthony Allen at inside centre and Smith at outside centre?

Is Smith injured?

Smith picked up a knock that ruled him out of the first two pre season games so he's only had about 40 mins of rugby. Ford is a better 10 than Twelvetrees, his tactical kicking and awareness of players and space is something you just don't see in players his age, he is a bit on the small side and lacks experience but he made his debut at 16 and the club clearly want to bring him on so now is probabley the best time for him. Twelvetrees has been in fine form in pre season and for the first two games Tigers lined up Ford/Allen/Twelvetrees so it seems the natural way to go.

Smith could start on the wing with Hamilton dropping to 15 and Morris to the bench though. That was discussed on the BBC Radio Leicester Tigers show on Wednesday. Would mean Tigers maintained a physical crash winger as is the norm in the attacking structure.

Confirmed line ups;

Leicester Tigers (v Exeter Chiefs, Welford Road, Saturday 3pm)
15 Scott Hamilton
14 Matt Smith
13 Billy Twelvetrees
12 Anthony Allen
11 Mathew Tait
10 George Ford
9 James Grindal
1 Boris Stankovich
2 George Chuter (c)
3 Kieran Brookes
4 Ed Slater
5 George Skivington
6 Steve Mafi
7 Julian Salvi
8 Thomas Waldrom

Replacements
16 Rob Hawkins
17 Jonny Harris
18 Peter Bucknall
19 Ben Woods
20 Tom Armes
21 Mickey Young
22 Andy Forsyth
23 Niall Morris

Exeter Chiefs include former Tigers lock Peter Short after his summer switch from Bath Rugby.

Exeter Chiefs
15 Luke Arscott
14 Josh Tatupu
13 Sireli Naqelevuki
12 Jason Shoemark
11 Matt Jess
10 Ignacio Mieres
9 Haydn Thomas
1 Brett Sturgess
2 Chris Whitehead
3 Hoani Tui
4 Peter Short
5 James Hanks
6 Tom Johnson
7 James Scaysbrook (c)
8 Richard Baxter

16 Neil Clark
17 Ben Moon
18 Chris Budgen
19 Tom Hayes
20 Ben White
21 Kevin Barrett
22 Gareth Steenson
23 Bryan Rennie

Sam why not Kitchener?

Leicester frontrow still looks good despite missing 3 props!

Starting to recognise a few of the Exeter guys. Backrow for them looks pretty good. Luke Arscott is arguably their best player.

Kitchener suffered a knock early in pre season and so appears not to have been risked, ditto Staunton. Looks like a lot of pressure on Slater to front up and get aggressive as the enforcer (he certainly has the size for it) and Skivs will be calling the line out, hopefully more succesfully than last year.

The starting props are good but not great, I would have hoped big Jules would have been around to offer some serious set piece fire power for this one as despite his age he is still an awesome scrummager. Harris on the bench is a decent loosehead who is known for having excellent technique in the scrum (I've seen him comfortabley hold Murray in the A League) but is only 20 and has been on loan at Notts to try and improve his overall game, Bucknall is experienced but average.

Think Tigers will take this one, it's not often that they lose at home after all, but after last season's game at Welford Road between these sides when Exe were leading comfortably with just 15mins left, I know that there will be no shortage of incentive for the Chiefs to prove that they are going to be a serious prospect this coming season.

Exe have put out a strong pack - strong scrummaging front row (interesting to see Whitehead preferred ahead of Clarkey), strong powerful locks with Club captain Tommy Hayes warming the bench to allow Peter Short a start, and the usual suspects in the back row, great to see Scays as captain, he's such a motivating force.

Haydn as obviously recovered from his knock, Mieres is preferred to Steenson probably for his all round game and ability to bring out the best of the back line, with Naqer and Shoey a quality centre pairing. Back three of Arscott, Jessy and Tatupu has pace, strength and will run good lines, with Rennie a re-discovered force to come on later in the game.

I can understand Cockerill wanting someone experienced outside Ford for his first premiership start, but I would have thought 36 as a second FH option at IC would have served to ease Ford in even better. Yes, 36 has more than a few OC games to his name, but if anything Allen possibly has even more over the years (and I've always thought OC suits his running style as well).

28-30 = Sweet away win for Exe - Tigers obviously missing a truck load of players to the world cup, but nevertheless that's some result for the Chiefs! The dream continues

Awesome win for Exeter especially at Welford Rd.

Well done Exeter

Fantastic result.

Well done the Chiefs.

Congratulations As

Very good result for the Chiefs, more injury problems for Tigers with Matt Tait having to pull out before kick off. From the people I spoke to who attended the game was a good contest with both teams playing positive and very physcial rugby. Tigers conceded quite a few penalties as they paid the price for a lack of experience up front with a few missed kicks leaving the game close. Tigers did show some promise but Twelvetrees was a little inaccurate and Ford missed a late drop goal that would have won the game.

Still defensive gremlins for Tigers and still no defence coach appointed. I thought we'd got over these issues last year but maybe the mix of new signings and youngsters haven't quite gelled with the first teamers.

Chiefs front 5 bossed the game and made the tigers look lightweight.

Grindal was dreadful and I wish we had seen more than 9 minutes of Mickey Young. George Ford and Niall Morris looked good - but sadly both Allen and 36 were guilty of spurning overlaps and running down blind alleys.

Waldrom was magnificent - I hope the knee injury he went off with was not as bad as it looked.

I had a feeling we'd struggle up front without an enforcer and Big Jules. Julian White would have given us almost instant Scrummage supremacy and life is always easier with a big horrible second row doing the dirty work. Someone needs to have a word with Slater he has the size (over 18 stone) and the strength but he needs to get more agressive and impose imself, he's a real unit and with his mobility he could be an international in the future if he starts putting his body on the line and imposing himself on the breakdown.

Can't take on the Chiefs without a hardened front five and expect to come away with a result and we were reminded of that again on Saturday. I feel for Ford though he was so close to snatching victory with his first drop kick, hope that and the second one (which wasn't so close) don't effect his confidence.

How much time did Naill Morris get? Do Tigers fans see him getting much game time while the world cup troops are away?

Due to a muscle twinge in the morning, Tait dropped out and Morris played all 80 minutes.

During the next few weeks he should get quite a lot of game time.

Thanks LT, he played the full 80 at fullback did he?

We've only seen him on the wing for Leinster, stuck me as a Chris Ashton TYPE player, he runs good lines into midfeild. A big confidence player though, if things start badly for him it can be hard for him to get back into the game. Best of luck to him anyway.

Ah no, he was on the wing.

Exeter kicked to his corner quite a lot so he saw a lot of the ball and took sensible options re running it back or kicking. He also showed good pace and awareness to chase two Waldrom grubber kicks for his tries.

I suspect we will polish him up a bit (as with Leo and Jennings) before handing him back to you.

How much time did Naill Morris get? Do Tigers fans see him getting much game time while the world cup troops are away?.

If he keeps scoring he'll keep getting game time. Cockers likes to reward players who perform well. Seems to have good basics which is a favourite trait of Cockers.

I didn't read the full write up until now lads. 2 tries! Fair play to him.

No doubt he'll come back as a diamond.

The IRFU should start sending some money our way, we've sent over some fine players in Jennings, Cullen and Johney Murphy (as well as letting your national team borrow the best full back in Europe even though you don't use him properly). Looks like we'll be polishing this young lad up to a high standard only for him to bugger off in search of international rugby as well. Seems to have made a positive impact so far and there is certainly an opportunity for him to stake a claim as the likes of Hamilton and Alessana are never fully secure in their wing berths (if fit Geordan will play at fb but that's a different matter altogether).

formerly known as Sam wrote:The IRFU should start sending some money our way, we've sent over some fine players in Jennings, Cullen and Johney Murphy (as well as letting your national team borrow the best full back in Europe even though you don't use him properly). Looks like we'll be polishing this young lad up to a high standard only for him to bugger off in search of international rugby as well. Seems to have made a positive impact so far and there is certainly an opportunity for him to stake a claim as the likes of Hamilton and Alessana are never fully secure in their wing berths (if fit Geordan will play at fb but that's a different matter altogether).

I’ve had this conversation with a poster on here before. Given that virtually every Irish player that’s played for Leicester has been “ignored” by the IRFU until they’ve left then I think the tigers are getting a pretty sweet deal out of it. Jennings was the openside of the year when he played for Leicester, Cullen captained them to a HC final. Murphy has been there through all of your success.

I think it’s a deal that’s been working out pretty well for both parties.

Mickado wrote:I didn't read the full write up until now lads. 2 tries! Fair play to him.

No doubt he'll come back as a diamond.

Indeed there have been many terse discussions on this point 'Ado.

"No doubt he'll come back as a diamond." is a bit presumptuous - with Geordan as Club Captain and the Tigers' managerial experience of past experiences engaging Irish talent. Time will tell.

Portnoy wrote:

Mickado wrote:I didn't read the full write up until now lads. 2 tries! Fair play to him.

No doubt he'll come back as a diamond.

Indeed there have been many terse discussions on this point 'Ado.

"No doubt he'll come back as a diamond." is a bit presumptuous - with Geordan as Club Captain and the Tigers' managerial experience of past experiences engaging Irish talent. Time will tell.

The wink was actually for you, when you got around to replying.

I’ve had this conversation with a poster on here before. Given that virtually every Irish player that’s played for Leicester has been “ignored” by the IRFU until they’ve left then I think the tigers are getting a pretty sweet deal out of it. Jennings was the openside of the year when he played for Leicester, Cullen captained them to a HC final. Murphy has been there through all of your success.

Sadly they ignore them but then financially support the provinces to offer them competitive salaries and promises of international representation when they return. If they were getting regular caps then we could have maybe kept hold of Jennings and Cullen. Do you know how long Tigers have been trying to get hold of another scavenging 7? It's taken frigging years! Delivering Leinster key components to win 2 HEC finals, could have been us if we'd kept them.

Cullen captained Tigers to a HEC Final? Nah, the only finals we've been in whilst Cullen was around were captained by Martin Corry (vice captain Louis Deacon). I think in the HEC Final when we lost to the Pests (that one still smarts) Cullen was on the bench and replaced Kay after 50 minutes.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

I’ve had this conversation with a poster on here before. Given that virtually every Irish player that’s played for Leicester has been “ignored” by the IRFU until they’ve left then I think the tigers are getting a pretty sweet deal out of it. Jennings was the openside of the year when he played for Leicester, Cullen captained them to a HC final. Murphy has been there through all of your success.

Sadly they ignore them but then financially support the provinces to offer them competitive salaries and promises of international representation when they return. If they were getting regular caps then we could have maybe kept hold of Jennings and Cullen. Do you know how long Tigers have been trying to get hold of another scavenging 7? It's taken frigging years! Delivering Leinster key components to win 2 HEC finals, could have been us if we'd kept them.

Cullen captained Tigers to a HEC Final? Nah, the only finals we've been in whilst Cullen was around were captained by Martin Corry (vice captain Louis Deacon). I think in the HEC Final when we lost to the Pests (that one still smarts) Cullen was on the bench and replaced Kay after 50 minutes.

Fair point, but the Tigers are like any club and can’t expect to hold on to any player indefinitely. Plenty of players have come to Leinster and left with a higher price tag on their head, it happens.

Ah, my bad on the Cullen captain comment. Maybe he was captain in the premiership final, can’t remember if ye won or not.

Don't think he was captain of either, think they sent him and Jennings up to collect the trophy as a thank you for their hard work in a Tigers shirt. Tigers tend to have a fairly small turnover of key first team players, more have come and gone since professionalism came in but as a club they do try and maintain a good deal of first team stability. People like Geordan Murphy, Kay, Corry, Ellis (though sadly far to early a finish) etc have spent their entire professional careers at Tigers. The likes of Tom Croft, Louis Deacon and Dan Cole will continue that trait because that identity is what keeps Tigers so competitive. Castro's turning down the big money offers from France and Croft from Bath, the minute Tigers start losing the ability to command the loyalty of their players then we're in trouble because we don't pay big.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Don't think he was captain of either, think they sent him and Jennings up to collect the trophy as a thank you for their hard work in a Tigers shirt. Tigers tend to have a fairly small turnover of key first team players, more have come and gone since professionalism came in but as a club they do try and maintain a good deal of first team stability. People like Geordan Murphy, Kay, Corry, Ellis (though sadly far to early a finish) etc have spent their entire professional careers at Tigers. The likes of Tom Croft, Louis Deacon and Dan Cole will continue that trait because that identity is what keeps Tigers so competitive. Castro's turning down the big money offers from France and Croft from Bath, the minute Tigers start losing the ability to command the loyalty of their players then we're in trouble because we don't pay big.

We’re in the same boat. There’s no doubt that the like of Heaslip, Sexton, O’Brien, Kearney, O’Driscoll could earn more abroad.
As long as the right type of players are in situ then the ethos is kept and key players will stick with the club. If it was ALL about money Toulon would be collecting their 2nd HC by now.

I must have confused the captaincy with see the two lads picking up the trophy by the way.

All the best clubs have that ethos and winning spirit. Toulon seem to almost have it but as with any squad that is put together en masse they have found that they haven't been able to carefully select the right personalities quite as well as the would have liked.

I must have confused the captaincy with see the two lads picking up the trophy by the way.

That or something has completely slipped my mind but they certainly went up to collect the trophy, they sent up Ben Kay to collect the AP trophy when he retired, shame Moody didn't go up with him as he won't win another now.