Byrne or Hook to get nod at full back Vs South Africa

This is what I am lead to believe when I read this: http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/19516.php

Howley says: "We have to dominate the sky with our back three because the aerial kicking game is so crucial when we play South Africa."

Hook didn't play much at 15 in our warm-ups, but did enough to show he was a capable player under the high ball. I still think he's better in our midfield though. Byrne is very good in the air, but vastly off form. Gets in the squad for being the only out and out full back. Both have a massive boot.

First choice wingers are Shane and North. Despite his height, Shane has always been a reliable player under high ball bombardment.

Thoughts?

Lee Byrne is bang out of form but at least you can count on him to take the high ball. He won't look to see if a counter-attack's on, of course, but you can't have it all.

I'd actually prefer to see Byrne at 15 than Hook, if only because Hook's wasted back there.

I do agree luckless. However, I wouldn't mind seeing Priestland there either. Fantastic counter-attacker, decent enough boot; but is he that good under the high ball you reckon?

I really want to see Priestland at ten with Hook at inside centre, even though it's not going to happen.

Maybe for Namibia, but the world cup isn't the place to experiment. Perhaps you'll get your wish when we play Aus post RWC. Stephen Jones will likely be coming back in for our third pool game.

Id play Priestland at full back.

Im not sure how good under the high ball he is, perhaps some scarlets fans can enlighten us. However his form with ball in hand was magnificent all season and hes done no real wrong in a welsh shirt yet. His defence has been good and hes not exactly small.

Hes played there a lot for the scarlets I understand.

I have to admit I haven't seen much of him at full back for the Scarlets. He's taken to international rugby as smoothly as you like, hasn't he?

Id like Preistland at FB - It means we dont move Hook there, and he makes less mistakes than Byrne these days + he is one of the best at counter-attacking into space.

A better question is who will play fly half? Surely Hook will start at 10 if Jones is out?

Hook, even if Jones was fit I think.

However, for Namibia, I would love to see

10. Preistland
12. Hook
13. Roberts
15. Byrne/Halfpenny

hook is wasted at fb. we should have 1/2p or priestland there. id rather hook in the centre than at fh but he will do more damage at fh than at fb.

maybe its a bit of mind games.

I think Davies and Roberts is a better combo than Roberts and Hook. Wales seem to be going forward more again rather than sideways.

I think Hook is much better at 10 or 15 or at even 12 with a natural 13 outside him rather than wasted at 13 outside roberts.

Thats what I think anyways...

I think Roberts and Hook is the better combo. Davies has never played well for us, only average.

I'd agree with Rodder...

My IMO:

Hook is first and foremost a 10. He can play well in the centres, but Id rather stick with him as a 10 and develop this "game management" everyone keeps talking about as though its a real thing.

Roberts/Davies in the centre, shane/north on the wings and priestland at fullback.

he was due to start there against England in the warm-ups, he deserved that spot then, and hes done nothing except enhanced my view that he deserves it now.

I cant claim to have seen all of the scarlets games this season, but Priestland has caught the eye every game I have watched, be that at 10 of fullback!

fully agree with Luckless aswell, he looks as though he's cherishing it.

Something happened at Spala, and I want to know what it is, the team are playing for eachother and look happy. I dont think Ive seen this since 2008!

Put George North full back and Brew on the other wing, George will catch the high balls in his lower lip and just flick the likes of De Villiers et al out of the way as he charges through the Saffers defence like a Giant SpongeBob SquarePants on Acid

I agree that Jon Davies has never shown his Scarlets form in a Wales shirt, but am I right in thinking he's only ever played for Wales with Jamie Roberts as his partner in midfield? Jon Davies needs a playmaker alongside him and Jamie Roberts is no playmaker.

This is what we should be doing:

9 - Phillips
10 - Hook
11 - Shane
12 - Jamie
13 - Scott Wiliams
14 - Giganto North
15 - Priestland - Solid and Intelligent with a good boot.

Simples

Byrne at 15 due to his experience and fingers crossed he regains his pre-lions form.

We cant play SA with our fingers crossed Fred!! Byrne probably shouldn't be there IMO

Davies doesnt necessarily need a playmaker alongside him, although he was great with regan king, he was also very good with maule, who isnt exactly a playmaker!

Him and Roberts have the potential to be a very good partnership, their defensive understanding has been excellant thus far. And the balls being used a lot more smartly in the warm-ups.

Im happy for them to carry on until our midfield defence is breached repeatedly or the tries dry up completely.

Otherwise for me, its working well enough!

Imagine a combo of Scott williams/Adam Hughes at 12/13 in the future if both keep progressing as they currently are. aaaahhhh, goodtimes

RubyGuby wrote:Put George North full back and Brew on the other wing, George will catch the high balls in his lower lip and just flick the likes of De Villiers et al out of the way as he charges through the Saffers defence like a Giant SpongeBob SquarePants on Acid

What? Pieter de Villiers?


Oh! Jean de Villiers

Haha, Jean De Villiers won't be flicked aside at all! And if he gets one of his trademark interception tries then it's game over.

RubyGuby wrote:We cant play SA with our fingers crossed Fred!! Byrne probably shouldn't be there IMO

I agree actually and would play 1/2p but I reckon Gats will go for experience - so fingers and toes time.

What? Pieter de Villiers?


Oh! Jean de Villiers .
biltongbek

Both of course, have you boys not seen George!!!!

Yeah I have seen George, George Foreman, he is old and boxed a long time ago.

I've seen George Formby too and he wasn't much of a physical specimen.

Even though he is not playing well enough to even be in NZ - I'll wager Gatland will still play Byrne at FB. He'll play:
9. Phillips
10. Hook (only because Jones is out)
11. Williams
12. Roberts
13. Davies
14. North
15. Byrne

Not my choice but that's Gatland's 1st choice back line. We won't create much and will try to win through defence and converting a few chances. I think Gatland will revert to his conservative self.

nottins_jones wrote:I think Roberts and Hook is the better combo. Davies has never played well for us, only average.

Massive sweeping one liner that encompasses Jon Davies in a nutshell ................. Davies played excellently for you against NZ when Biggar was 10 (then Jones), he brings Roberts into the game much more than Hook has ever done, he has the potential to score tries if he ever has decent service.

If you look at the passes that Davies had in the last game from the 9, and 10 and on a few occasions even Roberts (mainly due to the poor passes he received in the first place) they were attrocious. Most of the were chest high or too early for him to make those darting runs that he does frequently for the Scarlets - and remember who was the leading welsh try scorer in the ML last season even though he was injured for a large part of the game.

Although Hooks defence and positioning have shown a marked improvement (playing much better at 15 and 10), its come at a price, the last match he was more conservative than Stephen Jones is normally, and the worrying thing for Wales is his yardage gained in that match, and his turnovers yet again (for the 3rd match in a row)from which Argentina failed to capitalise. If the argument is for creative play from the flyhalf channel then you have to pick Priestland with 1/2p (or Hook) at 15.

The other thing to consider is how much more free flowing you were with Priestland at 10 in the first match against England and the first half of the second English match than the second half and even moreso against an aging Argentina side who hadnt been played together since last Oct/Nov 2010 they were the better team for 35 mins and it was only the two quick tries against the run of play (by the forwards not the backs) that took you to that win.

I would say that the following must be picked for any chance of a win against SA ............ but we know Mr Gatland will not bench Byrne Hook or Phillips

15 1/2p
14 North
11 Williams

13 Roberts
12 Davies

10 Priestland
9 Phillips / Knoyle close call

8 Powell
7 Warburton
6 Lydiate

5 Charteris
4 AWJ

3 Jones
2 Bennett
1 James

16 Hook - 15 / 13 / 12 / 10
17 Williams - 12 / 10
18 Phillps - 9 flanker / centre / prop hahaha
19 Faletau - 8 / 6
20 Brad Davies
21 Owen
22 Bevington or Mitchell

RubyGuby wrote:What? Pieter de Villiers?


Oh! Jean de Villiers .
biltongbek

Both of course, have you boys not seen George!!!!

Boy George

flyhalf,

Powell at 8 are you mad.

IMO S Jones won't be fit so Hook will start at 10 so I guess it should be Byrne or Priestland for the XV shirt.

For me it would be Priestland, than again I could be totally wrong and he will go Rhys at 10 Hook at 15

"and remember who was the leading welsh try scorer in the ML last season even though he was injured for a large part of the game."

Who Aled Brew? Doubt he'll play centre.

With regards to Priestland at 15 for the Scarlets.

He's brilliant at counter attacking from there, although defensively he can sometimes be found out. And under the high ball? Erm....honestly struggling to remember when he's been tested at that really. When I think about it, I don't think many teams kick at us, but then why would they when we have a back three of North, Priestland and Stoddart - why would you want to give them the ball?!

I'd say he could do a pretty decent job there, but not brilliant. He would play better at 10 imo.

Bedford

Understand your view on Powell, but you are only as good as your last game and I would say he had a good game and he scored a try ............

Faletau to me looked great going forward, superb ball skils, but weak in the tackle and breakdown. Against SA soory you are going to need a nasty beggar and in this instance Powell is the better option

10
Agree Jones (even if fit) shouldnt be in the 22, however Priestland is the much better offensive and creative option (than Hook) he played the better of the two overall ............. but you are right Gatland will not drop Hook to the bench.

15
Halfpenny has to be considered for his running lines and more importantly his cannon of a left peg, however Hook played well there in the friendlies

Will be cheering you lot on come Sunday

Keep the faith brothers

Risca Rev wrote:"and remember who was the leading welsh try scorer in the ML last season even though he was injured for a large part of the game."

Who Aled Brew? Doubt he'll play centre.

Sorry Reverend

http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=357&statType=tries

My mistake!!!

However Davies scored 9 tries in 9 games ......... thats the best ratio in the league last yr

flyhalf, I picked Powell at 8 for my starting XV because he played well V Argentina, it weren't popular choice, with Faletau on the bench. I think Toby is an excellent back-row forward but he folded under pressure too often against England which lead to mistakes in critical areas of the field. That's why I'm a bit wary of him starting against SA.

Although when we last put out a back-row of Lydiate, Warburton and Powell (first game of the 6 Nations); the unit was bested by Englands back-row and Powell had an absolute shocker of a game. If that happens again Gatland must have the bottle to bring him off straight away. Lydiate and Warbs definitely out-played theEnglish back-row in the two warm-up games though, I hope the form continues.

Hello Nottins

I think Powell is a subject of the "one trick pony" brigade, most have followed this notion with no real analysis of the man. You have to say he is a fool at times off the pitch but you can't deny he did performed well in his first season in the AP. He is deffo no more a one trick pony than is most welsh 8s.............. the very nature of an 8 is to pick and drive, be aggressive and get in the face of the opponents. Against a side which has used controlled aggression (like SA) to gain advantage you need a player who will front up to an aggressive pack.

And you are spot on when you analysed Toby's game he has all the hallmark to become a great 8 but he did make quite a few mistakes particularly under pressure around the loose. I think the SAs will have analysed his weaknesses, I would like to see him come off the bench as an impact player when the Boks forwards tire.

The same goes with Hook who deffo will not have the space he needs to operate to operate in the 10 channel.

If I was Welsh I would be quite excited about a bang on form Warburton and Lydiate and an aggressive Powell as a back row unit

If Powell can prove me and others wrong that he can control a game from 8 then great but he doesn't.

I have always said he is a great impact off the bench and still for me that is his best option.

Bedford

The reality is he was in control of the game much more than young Faletau was against England. If you look at it without emotion you can see the weakness in Tobys game, and I agree with young Nottins he could be found out against an aggressive in your face front five that SA will put out.

Not saying that he hasn't the potential to be a really great 8 but he is young and inexperiences and it showed against England.

Your only other option in Ryan Jones who is injured.

This highlights Gatlands stupidity in not taking Turnbull now

Why, Turnball isnt an 8?

wales606 wrote:Why, Turnball isnt an 8?

sigh

He has played 8, and Warburton has played 8 ................ so you could have had options

offload wrote:Even though he is not playing well enough to even be in NZ - I'll wager Gatland will still play Byrne at FB. He'll play:
9. Phillips
10. Hook (only because Jones is out)
11. Williams
12. Roberts
13. Davies
14. North
15. Byrne

Not my choice but that's Gatland's 1st choice back line. We won't create much and will try to win through defence and converting a few chances. I think Gatland will revert to his conservative self.

Sad to say I agree with the above totally

flyhalffactory wrote:

wales606 wrote:Why, Turnball isnt an 8?

sigh

He has played 8, and Warburton has played 8 ................ so you could have had options

Warburton has never played 8 for the Blues.

Turnball has also played in the second row, but I would rather Gough played there for Wales than Turnball.

I think Gatland was right in not taking Turnball, he was off form at the end of last season, and not playing at 7.

flyhalffactory wrote:Bedford

The reality is he was in control of the game much more than young Faletau was against England. If you look at it without emotion you can see the weakness in Tobys game, and I agree with young Nottins he could be found out against an aggressive in your face front five that SA will put out.

Not saying that he hasn't the potential to be a really great 8 but he is young and inexperiences and it showed against England.

Your only other option in Ryan Jones who is injured.

This highlights Gatlands stupidity in not taking Turnbull now

Not taking Delve is a bigger mistake, head and shoulders above Powell anyday

Powell might do it as a one off game but Warburton and Lydiate will have their work cut out as Andy offers little else and can be a penalty machine - Maybe we just need him to get in a fight with one of the SA backrow in the hope they get sent off - Burger perhaps although you can take your pick. I actually think that suggestion is cynical but it carrys a lot of method and to give you a chess analogy it would be like a pawn taking a Bishop or even higher

I think what people are forgetting is that when Faletau played 8 in the warm ups he did so behind a retreating scrum. Powell had his chance there when we had a solid platform to work from and he still made a fair few errors from the base of the scrum taht wasn't under too much pressure. Would love to see what Faletau could do off a more solid platform. I would much rather he start.

It is a big mistake not having taken Delve.

Warburton is not an 8 (not big enough), and is our only specialist openside.

Faletau should start IMO although I can understand the Ryan Jones argument to some extent

Lydiate Faletau and Warburton is for me our best balanced back row combo and should start on Sunday.

I have criticised R Jones a lot through last season and a bit but current injury aside he has been getting back to some form and I would be more happier if he started ahead of Powell.

Ryan Jones would probably be the safe option, but Faletau is the player most likely to cause South Africa problems. The selection here, as in other positions, will tell us whether we're going to back ourselves and go for it or just hang in there and hope to sneak it.

Faletau over Powell everytime for me.

have you seen Faletau's stats over the england games? how nice it is to have an 8 who makes yards!!!!!

if he hadnt knocked on a couple of glaringly obvious times (as did experienced players like Jamie Roberts) we'd be talking about what an excellant debut he'd had.

Personally I dont get the Powell hype, sure hes fast and big. But he fails to bring people down head on, he loses the contact battle in defence, he loses the ball in contact on attack. He improved those aspects (bar losing the contact battle) against argentina but he still didnt show me anything to prove he's there as anything other than cover.

Davies & Roberts to stay as the centre pairing, its functioning a lot better than hook/roberts were and roberts is really starting to look his lions-form self!

Priestland/Hook can rotate 10/15 for me. They're both good players who are intelligent enough to switch at first receiver and keep teams guessing, both have expereince at full back (Priestland perhaps not internationally).