david haye or tomasz adamek?

i can't help but notice the similaritys between haye and adamek, both are blown up cruisers campaining quite successfully in the heavyweight division. haye suffered a damaging defeat to wlad, and failing a massive upset adamek will probably suffer the same fate against vitali. both are previous crusierweight world champions, haye unifying the WBA, WBC and WBO belts against morcomek and enzo, and adamek defending the IBF against cunningham, banks and gunn. both have suffered a single loss, against carl thompson and chad dawson, and both have captured a world heavyweight title (IBF international belt against golota for adamek and WBA title against valuev for haye). their winning heavyweight records are about equal:-

haye: barrett, valuev, ruiz and harrison
adamek: golota, estrada, arroela, grant, maddalone and mcbride

this may well be academic if haye retires but i would consider haye/adamek number 3 in the world rankings behind the brothers (perhaps povetkin may have a shout as well though), and consider this a 50/50 fight. haye has the knockout power but adamek is tough and has the workrate, and think if haye wants to continue it is the logical step.

my question is who would you pick to win?

I'd see Haye beating him. Elusive enough and destroys him in speed and power comparisons. Adamek is tidier, but unorthodoxocity beats predictability.

At what weight?

Cruiser I think Haye wins but heavyweight it becomes closer. Have not been impressed by either at heavyweight.

In terms of records, I don't think there is much in it.

Adamek's wins over Cunningham, Bell, Banks, Arreola and Grant are fairly similar to Haye's wins over Mormeck, Enzo, Fragomeni, Valuev and Ruiz.
If anything, I might give Adamek the edge.

I also prefer him as an individual and appreciate his attitude towards the sport; honest, hardworking and sincere.

However, in a head to head fight, I'd fancy Haye to win.
Adamek is the more technically sound but I feel that Haye's superior athleticism and power would overwhelm Adamek's more pedestrian approach.

I'd back Haye at cruiser and heavy, just the faster, better boxer with more power.

Adamek was LHW champ as well so he can become champ at 3 weights.

He beat Arreola which is a better HW win than any of Haye's.

As Vitali said Adamek is the No. 3 HW while the only ranking David Haye should have is in talking where he would be ranked No.1.

Other than Wlad Haye has never fought a better fighter than Adamek. Personally I see Haye as a self made myth that Adamek would bring right back down to earth.

Tend to agree with strongback. I don't believe that Haye is the "faster, better boxer", although he does hit harder than Adamek. Overall, would think that Adamek's opposition is slightly better than Haye's. Adamek is probably a solid B in most areas, but he throws a lot more punches than Haye, and I could easily see him outworking the Englishman. Haye relies far too much on the big right hand, and can certainly be outboxed. Adamek UD 12 is a sporting bet, I reckon.

i honestly think this is a 50/50 fight, if adamek can last the 12 rounds with vitali then my opinion will change, if vitali cannot KO him then i dont think haye can, as vitali hits harder, and adamek is more consistent with a much higher workrate, which haye is sometimes known to lack.

i think if haye is planning a comeback he may well be waiting for vitali/adamek fight to conclude, and those to fighters are the most likely opponents

I think this is quite a tough one to call. I fancy Haye at cruiser and agree with Colonial that it becomes closer at heavy weight.
I am one of the few that feels that Haye was destroyed by Wlad, and that actually the rounds were closer - I still had Wlad winning all of them but there wasn't much in it.

The positives that Haye can take is that he proved very elusive and also took a huge right off a world class heavy weight and didn't look hurt.

personally I feel Hayes speed and power would probably be too much for Adamek, but definitely a fight I would watch.

*was supposed to say wasn't destroyed

JACKMAGIC wrote:
I am one of the few that feels that Haye was destroyed by Wlad, and that actually the rounds were closer - I still had Wlad winning all of them but there wasn't much in it.

The positives that Haye can take is that he proved very elusive and also took a huge right off a world class heavy weight and didn't look hurt.

I was thinking this the other day. Haye marked up Wlad quite badly and only threw about 7 meaningful shots the whole fight.

Michaels, Sean wrote:

JACKMAGIC wrote:
I am one of the few that feels that Haye was destroyed by Wlad, and that actually the rounds were closer - I still had Wlad winning all of them but there wasn't much in it.

The positives that Haye can take is that he proved very elusive and also took a huge right off a world class heavy weight and didn't look hurt.

I was thinking this the other day. Haye marked up Wlad quite badly and only threw about 7 meaningful shots the whole fight.

Yeah I remember thinking that after fight and wondering which shot cuased the damage. Perhaps Haye is a bit of a self propelled myth in some respects, but I genuinely still feel he has the tools to be a successful heavy weight. But he has made his millions so why would he want to get hit in the face anymore?

like you i dont think he will fight again, but the only niggle that makes me think he might is that a unified champion won't want to go out on a loss, and with the embarrsment of the toegate situation after. if we hear nothing from haye after the vitali fight then i think we can safely assume he's done and dusted, i think if he sees a weakness in either vitali or adamek in their fight though he may want to jump in against one of them.

eddyfightfan wrote:like you i dont think he will fight again, but the only niggle that makes me think he might is that a unified champion won't want to go out on a loss, and with the embarrsment of the toegate situation after. if we hear nothing from haye after the vitali fight then i think we can safely assume he's done and dusted, i think if he sees a weakness in either vitali or adamek in their fight though he may want to jump in against one of them.

Whereas I agree if he quit now then his 'legacy' which he was constantly going on about being the most important thing to him would be terribly scarred, I just don't know if he has the desire to fight anymore. Really hope im wrong. As much as I respect the Klits I desperately want to see them both get KTFO!

[quote="JACKMAGIC"]

eddyfightfan wrote:As much as I respect the Klits I desperately want to see them both get KTFO!

Haye continuing to fight will make no impact on the Klitschko's loss record. Both will retire champions unless there's an 18 year old kid with a bull neck hanging around Brooklyn, or the like, that we don't know about.

[quote="Strongback"]

JACKMAGIC wrote:

eddyfightfan wrote:As much as I respect the Klits I desperately want to see them both get KTFO!

Haye continuing to fight will make no impact on the Klitschko's loss record. Both will retire champions unless there's an 18 year old kid with a bull neck hanging around Brooklyn, or the like, that we don't know about.

In fairness I don't mind so much who does the job, just want the job done. If said craftsman could also be british then all the better!

I think Haye's ledger is not as good but if they ever fought I see Haye being too explosive for the ordinary Pole.

eddyfightfan wrote:i honestly think this is a 50/50 fight, if adamek can last the 12 rounds with vitali then my opinion will change, if vitali cannot KO him then i dont think haye can, as vitali hits harder, and adamek is more consistent with a much higher workrate, which haye is sometimes known to lack.

i think if haye is planning a comeback he may well be waiting for vitali/adamek fight to conclude, and those to fighters are the most likely opponents

I wouldnt say Vitali hits harder then Haye. He is more of a concussive puncher rather then a one punch KO artist.

[quote="Strongback"]

JACKMAGIC wrote:

eddyfightfan wrote:As much as I respect the Klits I desperately want to see them both get KTFO!

Haye continuing to fight will make no impact on the Klitschko's loss record. Both will retire champions unless there's an 18 year old kid with a bull neck hanging around Brooklyn, or the like, that we don't know about.

vitali is pretty much safe failing a shocking upset, but if wlad boxes until he is as old as his brother (4-5 years i think) then i can see some of todays heavyweights improving enough to make be a serious threat. perez, striverne, price, povetkin, fury, helenius, solis and maybe even chisora are all decent heavys with limited experience, as well as any new comers or cruisers stepping up in the future are in with a shout. and i would be shocked if in 2-3 years time at least one of them isnt at a level to beat wlad. if wlad retires in the next 2 years though he is safe as well in my opinion.

Remember Haye didn't knock any of his HW opponents over with one punch.

Vitali has lost punching power with age and tends to arm punch a lot these days. He just isn't as athletic as he used to be when it comes to getting his body set up to throw punches.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

eddyfightfan wrote:i honestly think this is a 50/50 fight, if adamek can last the 12 rounds with vitali then my opinion will change, if vitali cannot KO him then i dont think haye can, as vitali hits harder, and adamek is more consistent with a much higher workrate, which haye is sometimes known to lack.

i think if haye is planning a comeback he may well be waiting for vitali/adamek fight to conclude, and those to fighters are the most likely opponents

I wouldnt say Vitali hits harder then Haye. He is more of a concussive puncher rather then a one punch KO artist.

i'd say he is, or at least equal, and vitali has the range at heavy to land anytime, whereas haye has to work his way in. suppose against adamek range wouldn't be a problem for either fighter, but i still think if you can survive 12 against vitali then you can survive 12 against haye. adamek has a good chin too.

Strongback wrote:Remember Haye didn't knock any of his HW opponents over with one punch.

Pretty much did with the Ruiz KD.

Scottrf wrote:

Strongback wrote:Remember Haye didn't knock any of his HW opponents over with one punch.

Pretty much did with the Ruiz KD.

He had worn Ruiz down in previous rounds by an accumulation of punches. It was hardly a Martinez taking out Williams type of stoppage which is what I consider a one punch KO.

vitali has a 90% KO ratio, dont think you can argue he isnt a massive hitter

Previous rounds? I'm talking about the first round KD.

[quote="Strongback"]

JACKMAGIC wrote:

eddyfightfan wrote:As much as I respect the Klits I desperately want to see them both get KTFO!

Haye continuing to fight will make no impact on the Klitschko's loss record. Both will retire champions unless there's an 18 year old kid with a bull neck hanging around Brooklyn, or the like, that we don't know about.

You joke but I'd love love love to have a 18 year old Tyson prowling the heavyweight scene right now....!

Strongback wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

Strongback wrote:Remember Haye didn't knock any of his HW opponents over with one punch.

Pretty much did with the Ruiz KD.

He had worn Ruiz down in previous rounds by an accumulation of punches. It was hardly a Martinez taking out Williams type of stoppage which is what I consider a one punch KO.

What, 30 seconds into the fight? He put Ruiz down with a couple of shots thrown moving backwards.

Scottrf wrote:Previous rounds? I'm talking about the first round KD.

I thought you meant the stoppage. The KD was the first punch Haye practically threw after 20 odd seconds, a KD that early could indicate Ruiz was caught cold.

Ruiz went on to be battered by Haye who was able to sit back and pick his punches such was Ruiz's poor defence and general old age. Haye got a couple of weak knock downs were Ruiz claimed rabbit punches but he really only wanted a rest. Haye never repeated that devastating 1st Round KD which is an indication the initial KD was very much a fighter being caught cold.


Could have been a spinal thing also though.

Haye's power is greatly overrated at the highest level, particularly at heavyweight. Fragomeni, who is an average cruiserweight, and Ruiz, who was shopworn beyond words, were ultimately ground down by an accumulation of punches. Valuev was regularly hit flush and didn't budge, although shaken; Wlad, with his suspect whiskers, was caught occasionally, but never looked like visiting the canvas.

The point is well made that when he is in a championship fight, Haye is basically a cautious boxer, who regularly unloads his power punches off the back foot. Even the wretched Harrison was carried into the third round by Haye's essential reluctance to engage. What he promises and what he delivers have always been markedly different.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Valuev was regularly hit flush and didn't budge, although shaken;

Strange argument. He's never been knocked out, Haye didn't land all that often and hurt him more than anyone else has. Ruiz is very durable.

I'm not sure anyone thinks Haye is a ATG puncher, but he has power.

Scottrf wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:Valuev was regularly hit flush and didn't budge, although shaken;

Strange argument. He's never been knocked out, Haye didn't land all that often and hurt him more than anyone else has. Ruiz is very durable.

I'm not sure anyone thinks Haye is a ATG puncher, but he has power.

Certainly agree re Valuev.

Not an argument in itself, just further evidence that he isn't the massive hitter that is indeed regularly claimed. You haven't been reading threads on this board or newspapers if you don't believe that Haye's power is regularly vaunted to the skies.

He landed extremely regularly on Valuev, which was what enabled him to take a deserved decision. Apart from in the 12th, when fatigue may have been a factor, Valuev scarcely looked inconvenienced at all. The Russian hasn't of course, been in with anyone with great pretensions to power, so we still don't exactly know how well he takes a flush shot delivered by, say, a Tua in his prime.

Mention of Tua reminds me that there was a man capable of blasting out the "durable" Ruiz in one round. I agree that Ruiz has otherwise traded on endurance, but my point would be that a genuine puncher blasts through such niceties. Haye has the sort of power that one would frankly expect from a trained athlete of his weight - certainly not more than that.

Valuev not landing on him won him the deserved decision. He didn't catch him all that often, and hurt him more than anyone else.

Tua is a top level puncher. I'd agree if I thought there were many comparing his power to Tua, but I haven't seen that. He's just a good puncher.

Haye has concussive power, that's for sure, but I think he was more effective at Cruiser. Virtually all of his opponents were Ko'd at Cruiser - I think the only time he went 12 was because he felt he had to test his stamina (probably hyperbole for I couldn't ko him).

Any heavyweight hits hard as the extra weight behind the punch obviously has an effect. Haye was able to carry his power up but a lot of the heavies he faced have better chins. Ruiz doesn't go down easily but Tua aside did seem to have good recuperative powers. I'm not so sure he caught Ruiz "Cold" - it was a beautifully timed and executed 2-punch salvo that dropped him - Ruiz had come forward looking to jump on Haye. The surprise on Ruiz' face was very very real - he'd been hit hard and he knew it. I'd say it's a credit to his durability that he lasted as long as he did.

He was never going to knock out Valuev after breaking his hand (still wobbled him in the 12th which is more than anyone else has done) and the Harrison fight was a bit of a farce. Against Klitschko though he looked clueless and lost for ideas on how to reach Wlad.

Big puncher, yes. One punch power at Heavy? Yes to a certain extent, but it's more to do with the timing and technique than out and out power. Against Wlad, he couldn't put it into place.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Not an argument in itself, just further evidence that he isn't the massive hitter that is indeed regularly claimed. You haven't been reading threads on this board or newspapers if you don't believe that Haye's power is regularly vaunted to the skies.

He landed extremely regularly on Valuev, which was what enabled him to take a deserved decision. Apart from in the 12th, when fatigue may have been a factor, Valuev scarcely looked inconvenienced at all. The Russian hasn't of course, been in with anyone with great pretensions to power, so we still don't exactly know how well he takes a flush shot delivered by, say, a Tua in his prime.

Mention of Tua reminds me that there was a man capable of blasting out the "durable" Ruiz in one round. I agree that Ruiz has otherwise traded on endurance, but my point would be that a genuine puncher blasts through such niceties. Haye has the sort of power that one would frankly expect from a trained athlete of his weight - certainly not more than that.

Caught him cold.

As did Haye in the first round when they met, much further away from Ruiz's 'prime' (if we can use such a word about a man such as Ruiz). The difference is that Ruiz got up against Haye.

captain carrantuohil wrote:As did Haye in the first round when they met, much further away from Ruiz's 'prime' (if we can use such a word about a man such as Ruiz). The difference is that Ruiz got up against Haye.

He might not of if the ropes held him up.

captain carrantuohil wrote:As did Haye in the first round when they met, much further away from Ruiz's 'prime' (if we can use such a word about a man such as Ruiz). The difference is that Ruiz got up against Haye.

I was simply pointing out that the same argument can be used against both men. Similarly, Haye was moving backwards when he downed Ruiz, whereas Tua was in full-on 'bulldoze' mode.

But Balti, this is precisely my point about Haye. He so often is moving backwards when he delivers his big shots that their effect is often muted, relatively speaking. His style of fighting means that at heavyweight, at least, he is not guaranteed to put his man away when he tags him.

If you're the putative puncher in a fight and you can't close the deal when you get the opportunity, you need to throw a lot more punches than Haye does to win fights against decent opponents. This is why I give Adamek more than an even chance against Haye if and when they should meet.

[quote="eddyfightfan"]

Strongback wrote:

JACKMAGIC wrote:

eddyfightfan wrote:As much as I respect the Klits I desperately want to see them both get KTFO!

Haye continuing to fight will make no impact on the Klitschko's loss record. Both will retire champions unless there's an 18 year old kid with a bull neck hanging around Brooklyn, or the like, that we don't know about.

vitali is pretty much safe failing a shocking upset, but if wlad boxes until he is as old as his brother (4-5 years i think) then i can see some of todays heavyweights improving enough to make be a serious threat. perez, striverne, price, povetkin, fury, helenius, solis and maybe even chisora are all decent heavys with limited experience, as well as any new comers or cruisers stepping up in the future are in with a shout. and i would be shocked if in 2-3 years time at least one of them isnt at a level to beat wlad. if wlad retires in the next 2 years though he is safe as well in my opinion.

Unfortunatley, I don't share your optimism regarding the new generation of HW's.
Firstly, I find it hard to see how much more improvements +30 year olds like Povetkin and Stiverne can make.

Realistically, Solis is the only name from the ones you've mentioned that I feel has the ability to topple Wlad. Even then, he would need to stay injury free and show a level of hard work and commitment that he has yet to show us during his pro career.

If we then look at the remaining new breed (Price, Helenius, Perez, Boytsov, Fury etc.).
Does anyone really think any of these men are any significantly better than the former contenders (Haye, Chagaev, Chambers, Peters, Ibragimov etc)?
I'm not at all convinced.

Unless Wlad were to suffer a sharp physical decline within the next few years, I can't see anything other than his continued domination over the division.

With all his outrageous claims of power I don't think even Haye in his wildest dreams could imagine himself having the power of a Tua left hook.

I have read a referee describe how fearful he was that Tua would land a left hook on a semi-conscious opponent still standing and what the result might be to the fallen fighters health. Apparent the noise of his left hook landing was sickening to hear.

captain carrantuohil wrote:But Balti, this is precisely my point about Haye. He so often is moving backwards when he delivers his big shots that their effect is often muted, relatively speaking. His style of fighting means that at heavyweight, at least, he is not guaranteed to put his man away when he tags him.

If you're the putative puncher in a fight and you can't close the deal when you get the opportunity, you need to throw a lot more punches than Haye does to win fights against decent opponents. This is why I give Adamek more than an even chance against Haye if and when they should meet.

You can read all the books you want my friend but until you put on a pair of gloves in the ring you can never truly understand boxing...You can also point out why didn't Tua stop Barrett in two fights if your measuring that stick for Haye vs Ruiz...Haye has devastating power at Heavyweight whether people like or not.

Benson is the only guy on here who I have come across on this forum who understands Haye's style...Haye blows Adamek away at any weight...Adamek scrapped past a never has been in Arreola who has never beaten anyone of note...Haye has the better record and pedigree.

No, Haye doesn't have the better record. Unless you see a better heavyweight victim than Arreola on Haye's lengthy CV, of course.

Tua is now old, fat and past it, which is why I put the rider of a Tua, somewhat near his prime, on my earlier comment. He can barely last three rounds at top pace these days.

I should stick to hawking your hero's fights, if I were you.

captain carrantuohil wrote:No, Haye doesn't have the better record. Unless you see a better heavyweight victim than Arreola on Haye's lengthy CV, of course.

Tua is now old, fat and past it, which is why I put the rider of a Tua, somewhat near his prime, on my earlier comment. He can barely last three rounds at top pace these days.

I should stick to hawking your hero's fights, if I were you.

Haye does have the better record at heavyweight in Valuev a champion and better than the overrated woeful Arreola...Also became the 2nd man to stop the durable John Ruiz.

You can also say Ruiz was inexperienced and nowhere near his prime when he faced Tua works both ways...If I were you stick to reading books and acting like a know it all poster.

Adamek has no chance against Haye...Hopefully for his sake come saturday Vitali ages

The genius of PBF wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:No, Haye doesn't have the better record. Unless you see a better heavyweight victim than Arreola on Haye's lengthy CV, of course.

Tua is now old, fat and past it, which is why I put the rider of a Tua, somewhat near his prime, on my earlier comment. He can barely last three rounds at top pace these days.

I should stick to hawking your hero's fights, if I were you.

Haye does have the better record at heavyweight in Valuev a champion and better than the overrated woeful Arreola...Also became the 2nd man to stop the durable John Ruiz.

You can also say Ruiz was inexperienced and nowhere near his prime when he faced Tua works both ways...If I were you stick to reading books and acting like a know it all poster.

Adamek has no chance against Haye...Hopefully for his sake come saturday Vitali ages

Adamek stands a very good chance against Haye. Haye is nothing special what has he done to justify such praise? Never really beat the best at Cruiser then moved up to heavy beat bums and has been's then fought his first real live top class opponent and came up well short.

prettyboykev wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:No, Haye doesn't have the better record. Unless you see a better heavyweight victim than Arreola on Haye's lengthy CV, of course.

Tua is now old, fat and past it, which is why I put the rider of a Tua, somewhat near his prime, on my earlier comment. He can barely last three rounds at top pace these days.

I should stick to hawking your hero's fights, if I were you.

Haye does have the better record at heavyweight in Valuev a champion and better than the overrated woeful Arreola...Also became the 2nd man to stop the durable John Ruiz.

You can also say Ruiz was inexperienced and nowhere near his prime when he faced Tua works both ways...If I were you stick to reading books and acting like a know it all poster.

Adamek has no chance against Haye...Hopefully for his sake come saturday Vitali ages

Adamek stands a very good chance against Haye. Haye is nothing special what has he done to justify such praise? Never really beat the best at Cruiser then moved up to heavy beat bums and has been's then fought his first real live top class opponent and came up well short.

Adamek stands no chance against Haye...Haye is a very talented boxer thats why he deserves such praise with proven pedigree...He beat the man in Mormeck at cruiser so how can you say he didn't beat the best?...Valuev and Ruiz are world champions how can so called boxing fans classify them as "bums".

Wladimir Klitschko style wise was all wrong for a ambush fighter like Haye.

The genius of PBF wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:No, Haye doesn't have the better record. Unless you see a better heavyweight victim than Arreola on Haye's lengthy CV, of course.

Tua is now old, fat and past it, which is why I put the rider of a Tua, somewhat near his prime, on my earlier comment. He can barely last three rounds at top pace these days.

I should stick to hawking your hero's fights, if I were you.

Haye does have the better record at heavyweight in Valuev a champion and better than the overrated woeful Arreola...Also became the 2nd man to stop the durable John Ruiz.

You can also say Ruiz was inexperienced and nowhere near his prime when he faced Tua works both ways...If I were you stick to reading books and acting like a know it all poster.

Adamek has no chance against Haye...Hopefully for his sake come saturday Vitali ages

Adamek stands a very good chance against Haye. Haye is nothing special what has he done to justify such praise? Never really beat the best at Cruiser then moved up to heavy beat bums and has been's then fought his first real live top class opponent and came up well short.

Adamek stands no chance against Haye...Haye is a very talented boxer thats why he deserves such praise with proven pedigree...He beat the man in Mormeck at cruiser so how can you say he didn't beat the best?...Valuev and Ruiz are world champions how can so called boxing fans classify them as "bums".

Wladimir Klitschko style wise was all wrong for a ambush fighter like Haye.

Mormeck was looking past it before Haye beat him and was never anything special. Cunningham was probably the top cruiser and still is and Haye moved up before that fight became a possibility. Valuev may be the worst heavyweight champion I have seen and Ruiz was well past it and never that good either.

prettyboykev wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:No, Haye doesn't have the better record. Unless you see a better heavyweight victim than Arreola on Haye's lengthy CV, of course.

Tua is now old, fat and past it, which is why I put the rider of a Tua, somewhat near his prime, on my earlier comment. He can barely last three rounds at top pace these days.

I should stick to hawking your hero's fights, if I were you.

Haye does have the better record at heavyweight in Valuev a champion and better than the overrated woeful Arreola...Also became the 2nd man to stop the durable John Ruiz.

You can also say Ruiz was inexperienced and nowhere near his prime when he faced Tua works both ways...If I were you stick to reading books and acting like a know it all poster.

Adamek has no chance against Haye...Hopefully for his sake come saturday Vitali ages

Adamek stands a very good chance against Haye. Haye is nothing special what has he done to justify such praise? Never really beat the best at Cruiser then moved up to heavy beat bums and has been's then fought his first real live top class opponent and came up well short.

Adamek stands no chance against Haye...Haye is a very talented boxer thats why he deserves such praise with proven pedigree...He beat the man in Mormeck at cruiser so how can you say he didn't beat the best?...Valuev and Ruiz are world champions how can so called boxing fans classify them as "bums".

Wladimir Klitschko style wise was all wrong for a ambush fighter like Haye.

Mormeck was looking past it before Haye beat him and was never anything special. Cunningham was probably the top cruiser and still is and Haye moved up before that fight became a possibility. Valuev may be the worst heavyweight champion I have seen and Ruiz was well past it and never that good either.

Always excuses to downplay someone's wins Steve Cunningham only became champion because Mormeck got stripped for fighting Haye. Who did Cunningham beat for you to claim he was the top cruiser...Mormecks far superior to Cunningham.

What champions has Adamek beaten at heavyweight? He couldn't stop the likes of Grant and McBride for goodness sake what chance does he have against Haye...People always find excuses...some refuse to give Wladimir credit for his career defining win over Haye.

I'm not saying Adamek would beat Haye I'm saying he would have a chance unlike you who said he would stand no chance.

Cunningham beat Wlodarczyk and Huck.

I'm not talking up Adameks reecord just saying you are over stating what Haye has done.

Don't accuse me of taking anything away from a Klitchko brother I'm one of their biggest fans on this forum.

The genius of pbf, you say Wlads style was all wrong for Haye but at the time were you not telling everyone Haye would have him out in 6 rounds with far too much speed and power?

I would make Haye a small favourite over Adamek but theyre records are comparable and trying to insinuate Ruiz and Valuev were world champions and anything other than ordinary doesnt realy strengthen your argument that Adamek has no chance against Haye.

Haye has more power than Adamek but Adamek has a decent chin and fights are not won on knock outs alone. Indeed much of the arguments in favour of Adamek having a decent chance of winning stem from the idea that Haye is overly reliant on looking for knockouts whereas Adamek is a more well rounded fighter over 12 rounds capable of boxing his way to a decision.